MUScoop

I'm baaaaaack...
               

Vacations are great. Three-week vacations are the best.

Mine is finally over, however, so it's back to work. And what better way to jump back in than to take in another open gym session at the Al McGuire Center?

I was interested to see who'd made progress since the last time I'd caught the Golden Eagles playing pickup, which was right around the end of June, and there were some interesting developments.

First, the news: incoming freshmen Junior Cadougan and Youssoupha Mbao still have not received clearance from the NCAA Clearinghouse, and have yet to arrive on campus. At this point, it's become pretty obvious that neither will be ready to go until the fall session, so it'll be especially critical for both to hit the ground running once they get to Milwaukee.

Mbao's case becomes even murkier when you factor in the fact he'll need to go through the Clearinghouse an additional time because of amateurism issues stemming from his playing on a team overseas where players were paid.

Also, Lazar Hayward is back on campus, having finished his tour with USA Basketball's World University Games team and a short respite back home in Buffalo, N.Y. I had a chance to sit down with him after open gym and talk about his summer; I'll post that interview sometime Monday.

Joe Fulce also appears to be making good progress after undergoing surgery on his left knee earlier in the summer. He's still wearing a large brace on it, but is far enough along that he was able to throw down a couple of casual, two-handed dunks without much problem on Sunday. You've got to assume that speaks well of where he's at.

And coach Buzz Williams, of course, is back out on the recruiting trail along with the rest of his staff for one final push before the summer evaluation period ends. He's continuing to recruit some major talent, and it'll be interesting to see if anything transpires here over the next month or so with regards to a commitment.

With all that said, here's a brief player-by-player look at Sunday's open gym. Also, Jimmy Butler was kind enough to provide his perspective on each of the newcomers and their progress since arriving, so I'll include his comments on each after making mine.

Lazar Hayward: One day after running the gym with a 5-0 record, Hayward found himself at 0-4 before a big individual effort in the final game helped him save some face. In that one he banged in three NBA-range three-pointers, including the game winner from deep on the left wing that he followed up with a 'prove-it' free throw to clinch the proceedings.

Sporting a headband and some socks from his University Games stint, Hayward caught my eye with his increased confidence with the basketball in his hands. He brought it up the court on a number of occasions, attacked the basket on the drive, and was able to withstand some fairly strong ball pressure at the top of the key without turning it over.

Perhaps making up for lost time, Hayward was also extremely vocal with many of the newcomers. On this day, Brett Roseboro earned both his praise and his wrath. He also was enjoying a running commentary down the stretch with Dwight Buycks. Hayward definitely seems to be relishing his role as the Golden Eagles' alpha dog, which is a good sign this early.

Jimmy Butler: He spent the entire day matched up against Hayward and in the opinion of this scribe got the better of the matchup, underscoring how much better the native Texan has gotten in just over a year in the MU program.

In five games Butler pretty much did it all, but perhaps was most impressive on the drive. He simply could not be stopped on a number of occasions, as he'd put his head down, bull his way to the hoop and finish with an array of nifty flips and reverse layups. He also more than held his own when the bigger Hayward wanted to get physical, getting the best of the matchup on a number of occasions.

Butler seemed to be a little quieter this time around, perhaps because Hayward was back and so vocal, but he's another guy who's filling the leadership role well.

David Cubillan: Last time I was at open gym Cubillan was working his internship for a local radio station at the Brewers game. On Sunday he was in attendance, and made for some great viewing with his intensity and attitude.

Cubillan would back down from no one, and was extremely physical all afternoon. He and Buycks spent much of the final two games jawing and banging and scratching and clawing, with neither wanting to give an inch to the other. Buycks had the upper hand offensively most of the day, but Cubillan made him work for everything.

Cubillan's ball-handling seems to have improved a bit as well.

Chris Otule: Last time it was Robert Jackson banging on him. On Sunday it was Ousmane Barro part of the time, as well as Roseboro. The results were mostly the same: a number of missed bunnies from in close, entry passes bobbled away and frustration.

To his credit, there isn't a whole lot of emphasis placed on getting the ball into the paint in these sessions, and when it is, whoever does get it winds up being mauled more often than not. Otule probably would have earned a number of whistles had there been an official on hand. But since it's call your own, and he wasn't, Otule wasn't helping himself or his team.

He finished with a little bit of a flourish, mostly because Roseboro was struggling mightily on defense.

Darius Johnson-Odom: After a slow start the last time I saw him play, DJO couldn't be stopped over his final two games. On Sunday, he was nowhere to be found.

He wasn't able to get his shot going early on, and he just seemed to drift from there. I don't know that he even took a shot his final game, which was hard to believe for such a physically talented player.

Like I caution every time I write these reports, it's just one open gym session, so don't read too much into it. But after seeing him dominate last time, it was strange to see DJO just disappear.

Butler: "Lefty. Can handle it. Very, very, very explosive. Can shoot it; can't give him room. Good defender. Has to work on his off-the-ball defense. But overall, he's a really good player and really works hard."

Jeronne Maymon: Maymon had a quiet afternoon as well. He didn't seem to be looking for his shot much, either, but with the way teammates Butler, Buycks and Avery Smith had it rolling, there wasn't a lot left to go around.

The afternoon wasn't a total loss, though; he was a part of a 4-1 team.

Butler: "Goofiest dude on the team. But he's real talented. Smart. Inside-outside player. Unselfish -- that's just what he is. He stays with his strengths. He's always looking for the open man, and looking to make a play for somebody else. Very strong on and off the court in the weight room. A good teammate, and he's always talking. He's never quiet on the court. At all times, you know where he is."

Dwight Buycks: After not getting much done in either of the two open gyms I'd seen him play in earlier in the summer, the Milwaukee Bay View graduate more than made up for it on Sunday.

He was banging in long three-pointers, driving and defending -- in short, looking like the player that Williams was so happy to land from Indian Hills Community College last summer. What stood out most, though, was his competitiveness. He simply will not be intimidated by anyone, and that's saying something, because Cubillan was in his grille most of the afternoon, and Buycks didn't back down a bit.

That's a rare trait for a newcomer to a program to have, but it appears as though Buycks does. The Golden Eagles will need all they can get from him in that regard this season; Williams has to be hoping it rubs off on some of his younger, more inexperienced teammates.

Butler: "The thing is, he doesn't say a lot. Usually you can talk to him, and he'll take it, but then he'll go to the offensive end and get a bucket, and then to the defensive end and get a stop. So he speaks with his game. Dude can really play. Smart, can handle it, shoot it, defend, rebound, jump, quickness -- he's got it all. And more than anything, he's a great teammate. You see how competitive he is, but off the court he'll be like, 'Cooby, great job today.' That's what we're about. On the court it's strictly business, but when we get into the locker room it's all about jokes."

Erik Williams: Williams was also very quiet early on, starting the day on the sidelines with Roseboro before finally getting in with Hayward. He hit his stride by Game 4, though, and made his presence known on the boards with a handful of athletic offensive rebounds as well as an emphatic block of a Maymon shot attempt.

He wasn't looking for his shot from beyond the arc at all, in direct opposition to the last time I'd seen him play, but he was still knocking them down while shooting around. It'll be interesting to see how he performs when the lights come on.

Butler: "Erik is a good shooter. He shoots the ball really, really, really flat, no arc, worse than mine when I was first here. We're working on that, but it does seem to go in. He's an athletic wing, needs to work on his ball handling, his foot speed and his lateral speed. Overall he's long, a good defender, will challenge shots. He's got to get in there for more rebounds, but he's starting to get in there and be a pest on the boards like me and Lazar were this past season. If he can get that in his system, he'll be a really nice attribute to this team."

Brett Roseboro: He didn't get much run, only playing in 2-3 of the five games overall, and aside from one game in which he pulled down a few boards and scored on a putback was well out of his league on Sunday.

He definitely doesn't mind getting yelled at, which is a great quality to have at the high-major level, but he's not yet strong enough to compete consistently in the post, and not confident or fluid enough yet to get himself open and play to his strength from the elbows or beyond. And Roseboro, like Otule, has worlds of trouble trying to finish around the basket.

Defensively he's still a major work in progress, as his troubles with Otule later in the day underscored.

Butler: "He can shoot it, he's left-handed and he's smart. He knows what he can and can't do, so he ain't going to go out of his game by trying to handle the ball or stepping back. He knows what he's doing. The one thing you can say is don't leave him open -- keep a hand in his face. And he's coming at you with the pump-fake, the hooks over both shoulders. He's a real smart player."
               

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/51747657.html
               

Thanks for the update, Todd.

I think this re-cap really solidifies the idea that no matter what type of recruiting team we think we have brought in, that we have a rebuilding team that could surprise or absolutely tank -- a true "box of chocolates." Personally, this is why I love college basketball -- it's new, it's re-tooled and anything can happen.  I couldn't help but think while I was reading that Roseboro is 50/50 to stay in the program, just doesn't seem to fit the mold (stud athlete, physical play). He sounds like Novak without a shot and worse D. We'll see. It will be interesting to see who settles in with Hayward and Bulter.  Being in the Big East with a viable program makes it so much more fun to follow all year 'round, especially in July.  When I was in school, you would just show up for fall semester and learn about what stiffs Dukiet had recruited around October when you ran into them at OD's.

Junior is the key to the season at this point.  Him missing the summer while not the end of the world would have been great for him to play with these guys all summer and be in the weight room.

I for one hope Rosey has his chance to stick.  By Jr / Sr year a big man who can stroke it will be a valued commodity.  Need patience

Thanks Todd - great job!  It's great to hear how well Butler is playing and that Fulce seems to be healing well.  I hope we are pleasantly surprised by March!

Todd - Great to have you back!!!

Do you think Buycks has a good enough handle to play the point, or will we live and die with Cadougan?

Put a different way, who, based on what you've seen so far, will spell Cadougan when he's out of the game?

I think DJO's play will be a huge factor this season.

I think we're going to need very solid play from at least 3 of our incoming players to really stand a chance in the big east.  It sounds like Maymon, Buycks and Odom will be those players right now.  Butler really seems more mature and improving his game too, I'm excited to see him more involved on offense this year.

Lazar being MU's "Alpha-Dog", gotta love it.

Don't love the Otule performance review, same as an earlier Todd article.  Otule was terrible last year and does not seem to have improved one bit. 

Thanks Todd.

Hayward earned praise from another Milwaukee area D1 coach for his team play at the World University Games.

I think it is pretty evident from these reports that our inside game is likely to be no more effective than it has been the last couple of years...and in fact might actually be worse.  Let's hope Mbao is eligible but I am not sure at this point if that is going to do anything for us.

Quote from: Freeport Warrior on July 26, 2009, 08:33:19 PM
Thanks for the update, Todd.

I think this re-cap really solidifies the idea that no matter what type of recruiting team we think we have brought in, that we have a rebuilding team that could surprise or absolutely tank -- a true "box of chocolates." Personally, this is why I love college basketball -- it's new, it's re-tooled and anything can happen.  I couldn't help but think while I was reading that Roseboro is 50/50 to stay in the program, just doesn't seem to fit the mold (stud athlete, physical play). He sounds like Novak without a shot and worse D. We'll see. It will be interesting to see who settles in with Hayward and Bulter.  Being in the Big East with a viable program makes it so much more fun to follow all year 'round, especially in July.  When I was in school, you would just show up for fall semester and learn about what stiffs Dukiet had recruited around October when you ran into them at OD's.

No it's doesn't solidfy anything.  It's 3 hours of open gym with no coaching, no ref, no timeouts.  And TR expressed that multiple times.  And to think based off this one session that BR has 50% chance of transferring is ludicrous.  So you, a person who has never seen BR play in person, is going to take the written account of the MU beat reporter, about 1 open gym session, and come to the conclusion that a player has a 50% chance of leaving MU. 

Ok.  Thanks.

Quote from: Freeport Warrior on July 26, 2009, 08:33:19 PM
Thanks for the update, Todd.

-- a true "box of chocolates."

If we weren't living in such a politically correct society, you may have just given next year's team a nickname to rival "The Three Amigos."

Add 1 marshmallow to the box.

i know they're not on campus yet, but it'd still be nice to know what JC and Mbao are up to, wherever they are.... Junior needs to be on it much like DJ was in 06 for us to have any chance of success. Great to hear from Todd again.

Quote from: reinko on July 27, 2009, 08:44:48 AM
No it's doesn't solidfy anything.  It's 3 hours of open gym with no coaching, no ref, no timeouts.  And TR expressed that multiple times.  And to think based off this one session that BR has 50% chance of transferring is ludicrous.  So you, a person who has never seen BR play in person, is going to take the written account of the MU beat reporter, about 1 open gym session, and come to the conclusion that a player has a 50% chance of leaving MU. 

Ok.  Thanks.

Bad weekend, Renko?

I have never seen Roseboro play other than YouTube clips, but I did see him last week at the Al and he just doesn't remind me of the kind of athlete we've been recruiting. After reading a couple lackluster reports on him, I just get a gut feeling -- like I did with Christopherson -- that he won't make it through.  All this amazing wisdom is based on a "ludicrous" gut feeling, nothing else. I'll make sure to break down down game tapes before I spout off next time.

OK. Thanks. You can go back to kicking your dog.

Quote from: Freeport Warrior on July 27, 2009, 09:30:39 AM
Bad weekend, Renko?

I have never seen Roseboro play other than YouTube clips, but I did see him last week at the Al and he just doesn't remind me of the kind of athlete we've been recruiting. After reading a couple lackluster reports on him, I just get a gut feeling -- like I did with Christopherson -- that he won't make it through.  All this amazing wisdom is based on a "ludicrous" gut feeling, nothing else. I'll make sure to break down down game tapes before I spout off next time.

OK. Thanks. You can go back to kicking your dog.

BR was seen as a low major, even D2 recruit during his JR year of HS. Come summer, and AAU season, he blew up.

He specifically blew up at the IS8 Tournament in New York. Thats when more D1 schools began to look at him. He lit up Maymon...and Maymon told the MU coaches "he looks good, lets get him, etc."

Pretty fast rise, from a low major/d2 recruit to signing in the Big East...it will be interesting to see what he becomes.   

Not everybody...especially bigger guys...have to be immediate contributors to be a good recruit.

GIVE THE GUY A CHANCE FOR CRISSAKES!

Quote from: GOMU1104 on July 27, 2009, 09:45:02 AM
Pretty fast rise, from a low major/d2 recruit to signing in the Big East...it will be interesting to see what he becomes.   

Which is pretty much the exact opposite of Christopherson, who was projected as a high level recruit when TC signed him, but leveled off early.

Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on July 27, 2009, 09:50:00 AM

Which is pretty much the exact opposite of Christopherson, who was projected as a high level recruit when TC signed him, but leveled off early.

Wasn't there always a concern that Christopherson didn't play against a high level of competition? That's what I remember (or mis-remember).  Then seeing him so slow-footed on D made me think he wasn't BE material.  It will be interesting to see how he does at ISU.

Quote from: Freeport Warrior on July 27, 2009, 11:25:05 AM
Wasn't there always a concern that Christopherson didn't play against a high level of competition? That's what I remember (or mis-remember).  Then seeing him so slow-footed on D made me think he wasn't BE material.  It will be interesting to see how he does at ISU.

Yeah talent in the MVC isn't much.

He was league's above everyone for the most part, but still that doesn't say a whole lot.  I think his injury slowed him down and didn't allow for him to get his confidence at the BE level.  It was tough watching him out there sometimes, you want to root for a guy from your H.S. conference (when you usually only get wrestlers going D1 and a few Hockey, track players), but it didn't work out--best of luck for him though in the B12.

With that said I think we need to wait on Roseboro.  Did anyone, when he was signed, think he would contribute immediately like some of the other's (Maymon, DJO, and Buycks, Junior) would?  I didn't, unless perhaps we played that zone more.  With a guy like BR, you're willing to take a year or so, especially with Butler and Lazar, because the outcome could be something really positive.  He's 6'9" and still growing lacking a little speed and strength, better than 6'4" and lacking speed.  Give him a chance to prove what he proved over the summer, because the fire is there. 

hence the fools gold that is recruiting from the hinterland's of Wisconsin.  A low level D1 player can look like Lebron playing against a bunch of Norwegian dairy farmers who only play basketball to warm up from ice fishing.  Butch, Okey, Christopherson and the list goes on and on.  Beware the great white myth.  My guess is Evan Anderson is the next in this long line of myths.  notice these guys rarely play AAu ball and when they do they disappear.

Terrel Schlundt (spelling?) was a pretty good WI hinterland player.  So there are exceptions.

If it wasn't for his legal issues, Michael Southall was a pretty good player out of West Salem.  Started at Kentucky, then Georgia Tech before settling in Louisiana.  He now plays in Europe.

Sam Okey was Big 10 freshman of the year.

His problems had nothing to do with his basketball ability or the competition he played against in high school.

Butch had a nice career at UW. He sure could have helped us. He was just overhyped which is not his fault.


Butch actually blew up after playing AAU ball by the way.

Convenient that you left out Mike Wilkinson, Joe Wolf, Anthony Pieper, Tony Bennett and Travis Diener from your argument.

Quote from: MuMark on July 27, 2009, 01:56:35 PM
Sam Okey was Big 10 freshman of the year.

His problems had nothing to do with his basketball ability or the competition he played against in high school.

Butch had a nice career at UW. He sure could have helped us. He was just overhyped which is not his fault.


Butch actually blew up after playing AAU ball by the way.

Convenient that you left out Mike Wilkinson, Joe Wolf, Anthony Pieper, Tony Bennett and Travis Diener from your argument.

Agreed.

Jared Lovette was also a nice player. Not a star by any means, but a nice player. Also, all of the Dieners were pretty good college players.

I'm not saying MU should only recruit from WI (that would be a HUGE mistake), but there are some role players and occasional stand-outs that can be found.

Scott Christopherson might turn out to be a good role player. Which is fine. I'm not sure why we need to be more critical of him than somebody like Terry Sanders, who turned out to be a role player as well.

I actually liked Christopherson and wish he would have stayed.

Lets see how much Roseboro developes over a year or two before we label him a bust.  I don't think anyone expects Roseboro to be a stud, let alone one during his freshmen year.  Look at it this way, most didn't have high expectations for Butler and he is turning into a gem.

I also liked Christopherson and think he will be a solid addition to ISU.

Quote from: MR.HAYWARD on July 27, 2009, 12:46:55 PM
hence the fools gold that is recruiting from the hinterland's of Wisconsin.  A low level D1 player can look like Lebron playing against a bunch of Norwegian dairy farmers who only play basketball to warm up from ice fishing.  Butch, Okey, Christopherson and the list goes on and on.  Beware the great white myth.  My guess is Evan Anderson is the next in this long line of myths.  notice these guys rarely play AAu ball and when they do they disappear.

Except that Christopherson made his name and got his publicity from his AAU play as a freshman.  It wasn't his performances at Melrose-Mindoro that get him noticed, it was his play with the Fox Valley Skillz, one of the most successful AAU programs in the midwest made up mostly of white guys from up north.

Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on July 27, 2009, 01:51:05 PM
If it wasn't for his legal issues, Michael Southall was a pretty good player out of West Salem.  Started at Kentucky, then Georgia Tech before settling in Louisiana.  He now plays in Europe.

Yeah I remember him.

Busted for weed. Lost Kentucky scholorship but was picked up by GT.  Got busted again for weed and went to Louisiana Tech or something.

Quote from: pillardean on July 27, 2009, 09:51:27 PM
Yeah I remember him.

Busted for weed. Lost Kentucky scholorship but was picked up by GT.  Got busted again for weed and went to Louisiana Tech or something.

Layfayette...actually lead them to the NCAAs if I recall.

Bringing this discussion back to relevance (in other words, talking about our players and their potential impact next year) I am a little concerned about the apparent lack of development by O'Tule.

Don't get me wrong, I understand that this is nothing more than open gym; but it isn't like he's going head-to-head with top-notch talent, he's matched up against Ooz - a serviceable, but far from elite, former "big".  If he's struggling to compete against this kind of competition, how can we expect him to contribute in league play?  We have NO depth inside and I don't exactly feel comfortable with a 6'10" guy who apparently can't finish around the basket being our answer at the 5.

Also, just another topic to spur conversation...am I the only one who thinks that, in light of Jr's inability to get through the clearinghouse for summer session, the loss of Mo Acker is now really going to hurt us?  Too small or not, it would have been nice to have senior leadership at the most important position on the floor for the start of the season...Cubi isn't a pg and our other options have never played a minute in B-East play...I wish we still had Mo at our disposal...

Yes, you're the only one thinking we'll miss Acker. Just another beautiful, non-Big East talent that Crean creamed his trousers in offering. Hell, Ball State didn't miss him, we surely won't.

Quote from: 4everwarriors on July 28, 2009, 09:19:34 AM
Yes, you're the only one thinking we'll miss Acker. Just another beautiful, non-Big East talent that Crean creamed his trousers in offering. Hell, Ball State didn't miss him, we surely won't.

I go back and forth about missing Acker.  Let's say Cadougan doesn't get cleared until late and never quite catches up.  Who's the point guard on the team?  

The team this year runs the risk of being a collection of talented, inexperienced, interchangable players at the 2-4 spots, with no point guard and no center.  yay.

Quote from: Henry Sugar on July 28, 2009, 09:23:48 AM
I go back and forth about missing Acker.  Let's say Cadougan doesn't get cleared until late and never quite catches up.  Who's the point guard on the team?  

The team this year runs the risk of being a collection of talented, inexperienced, interchangable players at the 2-4 spots, with no point guard and no center.  yay.

Well, barring injury, at least one of those talented, interchangable 2-4 players will be experienced.

Quote from: Henry Sugar on July 28, 2009, 09:23:48 AM
I go back and forth about missing Acker.  Let's say Cadougan doesn't get cleared until late and never quite catches up.  Who's the point guard on the team?  

The team this year runs the risk of being a collection of talented, inexperienced, interchangable players at the 2-4 spots, with no point guard and no center.  yay.

Agree.

I mean, Acker is not a great player... but we've seen what a team with no PG looks like 5 years back. MU was basically forced to use Marcus Jackson as the default PG.

Not pretty.

You don't have to love Acker... but thinking there is no chance that MU will miss him is shortsighted.

Quote from: dsfire on July 28, 2009, 09:28:44 AM
Well, barring injury, at least one of those talented, interchangable 2-4 players will be experienced.

Point taken, but I'm with Henry, pull Hayward out of the mix and once again, you don't have a floor general on your roster.  Reports have indicated that DJO can play the point, but it's not his natural position and he's prone to turnovers and that Buycks can play the point if called upon but, again, not his natural position.

Look at every team that had impressive story lines in March (Syracuse, UConn, Pitt, UNC, etc)...they all had an experienced, solid pg to manage the game for them.  Talent can get teams through the regular season, but teams with exceptional guard play win in March...

I'm not calling Acker exceptional, don't be confused there, but at least he was experienced.  Coudagan is now coming in late, already has conditioning concerns and could very easily come in and be a bust - it happens all over the country, every single year with more highly touted recruits than him - if that happens, then what?

I would rather have either DJO and Buycks in there learning and getting minutes than wasting them with Acker, even with their turnovers. Eventually, one of them will have to spell Cadougan and I'd rather have them learn on the job and get experience now. It's not like Acker was going to lead us to the Final Four. He actually would have stunted the growth of all of our guards in one way or another (getting used to playing combinations, stealing minutes, etc).

Quote from: Henry Sugar on July 28, 2009, 09:23:48 AM
I go back and forth about missing Acker.  Let's say Cadougan doesn't get cleared until late and never quite catches up.  Who's the point guard on the team?  

The team this year runs the risk of being a collection of talented, inexperienced, interchangable players at the 2-4 spots, with no point guard and no center.  yay.

Buycks.  In fact, I'm even willing to say that Bucyks is the PG even if Junior gets cleared tomorrow. 

QuoteBuycks can play the point if called upon but, again, not his natural position.

It most definitely is his natural position, he's even called it his most comfortable position.  He was the PG at Bay View, he was recruited as a PG out of high school and was going to be the PG at Bradley had he qualified.  He played the point for the entire year at Indian Hills this year and for most of his freshman year. 

It's not like we're asking Fitz or Wes to step in for DJ.  This is a guy that has played point most of his life.

Quote from: 2002mualum on July 28, 2009, 09:33:13 AM
You don't have to love Acker... but thinking there is no chance that MU will miss him is shortsighted.

There is no chance MU will miss Acker.

He sucked as a role player, which is what he would have been again this year.  Look at Acker's game-by-game from last year --- awful, awful unproductive minutes in spot duty.  He was the epitome of ineffectiveness.  Acker failed as a role player and was dominated by opposing PGs as MU's lead guard late in the year.  As for the season ahead, he would have once again been a role player, searching for scraps of minutes not claimed by Buycks, DJO and at some point Cadougan.

No thank you.

Quote from: MU_Iceman on July 28, 2009, 09:41:03 AM

Look at every team that had impressive story lines in March (Syracuse, UConn, Pitt, UNC, etc)...they all had an experienced, solid pg to manage the game for them.  Talent can get teams through the regular season, but teams with exceptional guard play win in March...

I'm not calling Acker exceptional, don't be confused there, but at least he was experienced. 

I don't think MU has last year's UNC, UConn or Pitt talent to worry about making deep runs into March (I know you weren't making that claim, but it was a premise as to why Mo is necissary to our team next year).

I also don't think that Acker was that serviceable in the BE.  He could bring the ball up and start the offense, but he wasn't strong enough to body up an opposing quality PG or even a 2G (they just shot over him), he wasn't a good enough shooter to be a consistant threat from the outside and he couldn't drive into the paint and dish.  

I would take potential PG's playing this year as youngster's who our new coach recruited and see what happens.  Yeah they will struggle, but in the struggle there will most undoubtedly be growth.

Quote from: Freeport Warrior on July 28, 2009, 10:05:53 AM
I would rather have either DJO and Buycks in there learning and getting minutes than wasting them with Acker, even with their turnovers. Eventually, one of them will have to spell Cadougan and I'd rather have them learn on the job and get experience now. It's not like Acker was going to lead us to the Final Four. He actually would have stunted the growth of all of our guards in one way or another (getting used to playing combinations, stealing minutes, etc).

The more serious matter, IMHO, is the Otule (which was brought up earlier), Roseboro Mbao situation. It does not look as if any of them are serviceable right now, but hopefully something clicks with them soon.  

I'm curious as to see what type of defense we will play.  I don't think any of the bigger men are capable of post D agaist a player like Onauku or even UConn's back up last year Edwards.

I was hoping for the dark horse E-Will to step up a bit.  Hopefully over the summer he can get stronger, and a bit quicker and it will click for him come October.      

Quote from: NYWarrior on July 28, 2009, 11:38:22 AM
There is no chance MU will miss Acker.

He sucked as a role player, which is what he would have been again this year.  Look at Acker's game-by-game from last year --- awful, awful unproductive minutes in spot duty.  He was the epitome of ineffectiveness.  Acker failed as a role player and was dominated by opposing PGs as MU's lead guard late in the year.  As for the season ahead, he would have once again been a role player, searching for scraps of minutes not claimed by Buycks, DJO and at some point Cadougan.

No thank you.

Touche.

I hope you are right. I hope I never utter the phrase "Acker would have been nice to have".

However, I remember the season Travis got hurt, and MU went from a tournament team (probably would have made it), to a team that couldn't win a NIT game at home.

Now, I'm not saying Acker is a world beater, but certainly he could have helped that team and filled a need.

This year's team is not the 04-05 team, but MU doesn't have an experienced PGs on the roster. I hope DJO and JC are awesome, (they are supposed to be good, so it wouldn't be shocking)... but the 2005 memory is just too fresh for me.  

Obviously you can't prepare for injuries to your best player, but heading into a season with 2 inexperienced PGs* is less than ideal. I'm not saying it won't work. Just saying it's less than ideal.

*Yes, I know 2005 when DJ was a frosh, MU didn't have much PG experience either, so maybe I'm wrong.

Quote from: 2002mualum on July 28, 2009, 11:51:17 AM
Touche.

I hope you are right. I hope I never utter the phrase "Acker would have been nice to have".

However, I remember the season Travis got hurt, and MU went from a tournament team (probably would have made it), to a team that couldn't win a NIT game at home.

Now, I'm not saying Acker is a world beater, but certainly he could have helped that team and filled a need.

I think you are overemphasizing the experience factor.  Travis' loss was big because...well...he has NBA talent and simply having him gone made us weaker.  It wasn't just his experience...it was that he was a damn good college basketball player.

Mo Acker is not.  Buycks, with an inexperienced DJO or JC at point are much better options because they are simply better basketball players.

Quote from: 2002mualum on July 28, 2009, 11:51:17 AM
I hope I never utter the phrase "Acker would have been nice to have".

If you utter this phrase next year its only because MU lost its top three lead guards.  If that happens, Acker would have been the captain of the Titanic and we'd all slip silently into the off-season anyway.

Quote from: 2002mualum on July 28, 2009, 11:51:17 AM
However, I remember the season Travis got hurt, and MU went from a tournament team (probably would have made it), to a team that couldn't win a NIT game at home.

That team had nobody else, literally, who could handle the ball.  That won't be the case this year.  And keep in mind, Acker was closer in skill level to Bruce Hayes than he was to Travis Diener.  

Quote from: 2002mualum on July 28, 2009, 11:51:17 AM
This year's team is not the 04-05 team, but MU doesn't have an experienced PGs on the roster. I hope DJO and JC are awesome, (they are supposed to be good, so it wouldn't be shocking)... but the 2005 memory is just too fresh for me.  

There's plenty more backcourt talent on this team as compared to the crew on Diener's final voyage.  This team will be young, but its backcourt will be deep.....and talented.

Quote from: NYWarrior on July 28, 2009, 12:01:32 PM
If you utter this phrase next year its only because MU lost its top three lead guards.  If that happens, Acker would have been the captain of the Titanic and we'd all slip silently into the off-season anyway.

That team had nobody else, literally, who could handle the ball.  That won't be the case this year.  And keep in mind, Acker was closer in skill level to Bruce Hayes than he was to Travis Diener.  

There's plenty more backcourt talent on this team as compared to the crew on Diener's final voyage.  This team will be young, but its backcourt will be deep.....and talented.

I'm with you and I hope/think you probably are right.

I've never seen any of the incoming guys play yet, so I'm really blindly speculating. They may all be great ball handlers and I have nothing to worry about.

I hope that most of us have realistic expectations for the team this year.  Some of the previous predictions that I've read expecting us to go 500 or better in the BE, are just not realistic.  Things worked out well when the 3 amigos were freshman.  That is the exception, not the usual.  Look what happened when Key and Mac were freshman.

Quote from: nyg on July 27, 2009, 05:32:13 AM
Lazar being MU's "Alpha-Dog", gotta love it.

Don't love the Otule performance review, same as an earlier Todd article.  Otule was terrible last year and does not seem to have improved one bit. 

Thanks Todd.

I think Otule is a bench player at best on most teams.

Quote from: GOO on July 28, 2009, 01:02:30 PM
I hope that most of us have realistic expectations for the team this year.  Some of the previous predictions that I've read expecting us to go 500 or better in the BE, are just not realistic.  Things worked out well when the 3 amigos were freshman.  That is the exception, not the usual.  Look what happened when Key and Mac were freshman.

But you are not factoring in the awesomeness that is Buzz. If Crean could do it in 2005 as crappy a recruiter and coach he was, then most surely Buzz can.

;)


And yes, I tend to agree with you.  Hope for the best but realistically I think we're looking at probably 8th to 10th and the NIT.  If we get to the NCAAs, Buzz should win COY in the Big East.  Just as Crean should have won it in 2005 going from a predicted 12th to 4th...but I don't think he won it if I recall.

Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on July 28, 2009, 07:21:28 PM

But you are not factoring in the awesomeness that is Buzz. If Crean could do it in 2005 as crappy a recruiter and coach he was, then most surely Buzz can.

;)


And yes, I tend to agree with you.  Hope for the best but realistically I think we're looking at probably 8th to 10th and the NIT.  If we get to the NCAAs, Buzz should win COY in the Big East.  Just as Crean should have won it in 2005 going from a predicted 12th to 4th...but I don't think he won it if I recall.

Agreed. If we can finish .500 in the B.E. it would be great. Expectations here for so many unproven players are out of line.

Quote from: bma725 on July 28, 2009, 10:54:31 AM
Buycks.  In fact, I'm even willing to say that Bucyks is the PG even if Junior gets cleared tomorrow. 

It most definitely is his natural position, he's even called it his most comfortable position.  He was the PG at Bay View, he was recruited as a PG out of high school and was going to be the PG at Bradley had he qualified.  He played the point for the entire year at Indian Hills this year and for most of his freshman year. 

It's not like we're asking Fitz or Wes to step in for DJ.  This is a guy that has played point most of his life.

I just threw up in my mouth while reminiscing about the Fitz PG experiment. 

Fitz at point guard was better than Marcus Jackson, Brandon Bell or Niv Berkowitz.

Quote from: PuertoRicanNightmare on July 29, 2009, 03:53:43 PM
Fitz at point guard was better than Marcus Jackson, Brandon Bell or Niv Berkowitz.

The top turd on the dungpile...