MUScoop

MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: ChicosBailBonds on July 02, 2009, 11:44:58 PM

Title: McNeal has a really good shot with the Kings
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on July 02, 2009, 11:44:58 PM
Best of luck to him

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/college/chi-03-mcneal-jul03,0,7765543.story
Title: Re: McNeal has a really good shot with the Kings
Post by: Markusquette on July 03, 2009, 02:23:43 AM
I feel for Jerel.  He really did work hard and deserved to hear his named called.  Best of luck to McNeal in Sacramento and I hope he can do well in summer leagues to prove his worth and join the Kings.
Title: Re: McNeal has a really good shot with the Kings
Post by: Ellenson Guerrero on July 03, 2009, 03:00:30 AM
As much as the cynic in me says that Jerel is just too short to play in the NBA (I'm 6'3 and stand taller than him at the crosswalks around campus), I really think he can make it work for at least a couple of years. He's an outstanding defender and Marquette has endowed him with a great work ethic. The best of luck.
Title: Re: McNeal has a really good shot with the Kings
Post by: ATWizJr on July 03, 2009, 06:45:46 AM
Marquette endowed him with a great work ethic?
Title: Re: McNeal has a really good shot with the Kings
Post by: Tugg Speedman on July 03, 2009, 07:27:47 AM
The Trib reporter that wrote this article is Dan McGrath.

He happens to be an MU grad and on the Diederich College of Communication Dean's Advisory Board.

http://diederich.marquette.edu/COC/Dan-McGrath.aspx

Does this fact change your opinion of this story?
Title: Re: McNeal has a really good shot with the Kings
Post by: ATWizJr on July 03, 2009, 08:08:31 AM
Where does Jerel say in the article that MU endowed him with a great work ethic?

While it may be a correct opinion, it is an unsubstantiated one and neglects any input his family may have had in helping form Jerel's work ethic. 

So, no. 
Title: Re: McNeal has a really good shot with the Kings
Post by: Skatastrophy on July 03, 2009, 10:06:45 AM
Quote from: ATWizJr on July 03, 2009, 08:08:31 AM
Where does Jerel say in the article that MU endowed him with a great work ethic?

While it may be a correct opinion, it is an unsubstantiated one and neglects any input his family may have had in helping form Jerel's work ethic. 

So, no. 

"Marquette endowed Jerel with the opportunity to showcase his work ethic and teamwork on a national stage."  That would be a little more accurate :)
Title: Re: McNeal has a really good shot with the Kings
Post by: ATWizJr on July 03, 2009, 10:14:10 AM
Quote from: Skatastrophy on July 03, 2009, 10:06:45 AM
"Marquette endowed Jerel with the opportunity to showcase his work ethic and teamwork on a national stage."  That would be a little more accurate :)
my point exactly.
Title: Re: McNeal has a really good shot with the Kings
Post by: Ellenson Guerrero on July 03, 2009, 10:19:44 AM
Quote from: ATWizJr on July 03, 2009, 08:08:31 AM
Where does Jerel say in the article that MU endowed him with a great work ethic?

While it may be a correct opinion, it is an unsubstantiated one and neglects any input his family may have had in helping form Jerel's work ethic.  

So, no.  

You are right, it is a totally unsubstantiated opinion, but I really didn't think it was necessary to have an in-depth psychological evaluation before I made a post on this board. It was pretty clear that I was offering an opinion on his NBA future.

Additionally I think its a perfectly legitimate thing to say. I played sports with alot of players growing up and through high school, all of whom changed over the course of a season or a couple of years. I know at each ascending level the margin of error becomes smaller and smaller, requiring more preparation and better execution. I'm not saying Jerel didn't have a strong work ethic before he came to MU, but from my observation as a fan its obvious he improved a great deal in his time here and I thus make the conclusion that the basketball program had something to do in fostering that growth.
Title: Re: McNeal has a really good shot with the Kings
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on July 03, 2009, 11:32:18 AM
Is it possible for a coach like Crean or Buzz to help instill and teach better work ethic/habits?  I think so.  My guess is that MU helped him with his work ethic.
Title: Re: McNeal has a really good shot with the Kings
Post by: KCmastapeace on July 03, 2009, 12:00:54 PM
I will be paying extra close attention to the Kings summer team because Brian Roberts who I attended high school with will also be playing for them.  Unfortunately they are similar type players and will be essentially battling each other for a roster spot!  Best of luck to both of them as they both deserve a shot.
Title: Re: McNeal has a really good shot with the Kings
Post by: mu_hilltopper on July 03, 2009, 12:01:35 PM
Sure, he might have had a "work ethic" before he got to MU.  But there is ZERO doubt that playing in the BE has been the most difficult thing any of those kids have ever done in their short lives.   

They have to work, what, 100x harder than they did in High School to succeed? 

No doubt, Jerel and company may have had work ethics .. but they grew substantially in 4 years, due to the enormous challenges that were in front of them.
Title: Re: McNeal has a really good shot with the Kings
Post by: ATWizJr on July 03, 2009, 12:29:17 PM
Quote from: mu_hilltopper on July 03, 2009, 12:01:35 PM
Sure, he might have had a "work ethic" before he got to MU.  But there is ZERO doubt that playing in the BE has been the most difficult thing any of those kids have ever done in their short lives.   

They have to work, what, 100x harder than they did in High School to succeed? 

No doubt, Jerel and company may have had work ethics .. but they grew substantially in 4 years, due to the enormous challenges that were in front of them.
Wouldn't that have been true for any kid who played for 4 years in the BE or any of the major conferences, not only at MU?  Kinda' like saying a museum made Monet a great painter when all it really did was give him an opportunity to display what he could do.
Title: Re: McNeal has a really good shot with the Kings
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on July 03, 2009, 12:50:35 PM
Quote from: ATWizJr on July 03, 2009, 12:29:17 PM
Wouldn't that have been true for any kid who played for 4 years in the BE or any of the major conferences, not only at MU?  Kinda' like saying a museum made Monet a great painter when all it really did was give him an opportunity to display what he could do.

Not sure I'd agree with that.  Some kids don't get the message and fail to put in the work.  Amo comes to mind.  A few others that transferred out as well.
Title: Re: McNeal has a really good shot with the Kings
Post by: Skatastrophy on July 03, 2009, 01:16:05 PM
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on July 03, 2009, 12:50:35 PM
Not sure I'd agree with that.  Some kids don't get the message and fail to put in the work.  Amo comes to mind.  A few others that transferred out as well.

Right.  Which supports the fact that it's not the university instilling work ethic.

This is really a "chicken or the egg?" argument.
Title: Re: McNeal has a really good shot with the Kings
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on July 03, 2009, 01:31:16 PM
Quote from: Skatastrophy on July 03, 2009, 01:16:05 PM
Right.  Which supports the fact that it's not the university instilling work ethic.

This is really a "chicken or the egg?" argument.

But don't you agree that some kids who also didn't want to put in the work got "religion" from their coaches and finally saw the light? 

Title: Re: McNeal has a really good shot with the Kings
Post by: Skatastrophy on July 03, 2009, 01:53:46 PM
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on July 03, 2009, 01:31:16 PM
But don't you agree that some kids who also didn't want to put in the work got "religion" from their coaches and finally saw the light? 

I definitely see the point you're making, but I really think that work ethic and motivation has to come from within.

I think that a coach/trainer could be very good at getting an extra 5% out of all of their players (which isn't insignificant).  But the kind of no-quit attitude that turns a player into an elite college specimen that gets a chance to play in the NBA?  I don't think that could be instilled in a young man by a coach/mentor or his peer group.
Title: Re: McNeal has a really good shot with the Kings
Post by: StillAWarrior on July 03, 2009, 02:31:44 PM
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on July 03, 2009, 11:32:18 AM
Is it possible for a coach like Crean or Buzz to help instill and teach better work ethic/habits?  I think so.  My guess is that MU helped him with his work ethic.

I think this might be one of the sillier issues that has been debated during this slow season, but I'd submit that the highlighted word helps makes the point some here are advancing:  we really don't know whether MU is responsible for Jerel's work ethic, whether he brought it with him or whether it is a combination of the two.

Like is often the case, I suspect the middle ground is a pretty safe bet.
Title: Re: McNeal has a really good shot with the Kings
Post by: ATWizJr on July 03, 2009, 03:29:38 PM
the original question is whether Marquette "endowed him" with a great work ethic. 

Since there are no quotes in the article from Jerel on this subject, no inference can be made that Marquette "endowed him with a great work ethic."

As AWeg stated, this is his unsubstantiated opinion.

And, yes, it is the slow season.
Title: Re: McNeal has a really good shot with the Kings
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on July 03, 2009, 07:59:06 PM
Quote from: Skatastrophy on July 03, 2009, 01:53:46 PM
I definitely see the point you're making, but I really think that work ethic and motivation has to come from within.

I think that a coach/trainer could be very good at getting an extra 5% out of all of their players (which isn't insignificant).  But the kind of no-quit attitude that turns a player into an elite college specimen that gets a chance to play in the NBA?  I don't think that could be instilled in a young man by a coach/mentor or his peer group.

Well, we'll have to agree to disagree.  I've seen people in all walks of life go from completely lazy to bonafide rockstars after the right people got a hold of them.  The military is a great place to find a ton of people that got religion.  

I suppose you could say it was always there, it just had to be brought out of them, but that's what I'm ultimately getting at....sometimes it takes that special someone to push someone to their potential.  Incidentally, I'm not saying that about McNeal, who seems to be a guy that was always a self starter.  I'm referencing the other folks that really are lost and need to be guided, pushed, pulled, etc.
Title: Re: McNeal has a really good shot with the Kings
Post by: MUONTOP on July 04, 2009, 01:22:15 AM
Quote from: ATWizJr on July 03, 2009, 03:29:38 PM
the original question is whether Marquette "endowed him" with a great work ethic. 

Since there are no quotes in the article from Jerel on this subject, no inference can be made that Marquette "endowed him with a great work ethic."

As AWeg stated, this is his unsubstantiated opinion.

And, yes, it is the slow season.

HAHHAHHAHAHAHAHAHA.....thank you ATWizJr....you just made my night...start an argument about "unsubstantiated opinions" on a public message board...isn't that kind of the point and perhaps the definition of irony? 

Very clever and hilarious
Title: Re: McNeal has a really good shot with the Kings
Post by: oshkoshbgosh on July 05, 2009, 08:24:01 AM
Here's one MU fan who wishes McNeal had used a little of that reknowned work ethic to cut down on his turnovers.
Title: Re: McNeal has a really good shot with the Kings
Post by: Avenue Commons on July 06, 2009, 10:10:27 AM
Word on the street is that with Ben Gordon gone and Kirk Hinrich on the trading block, that the Bulls are interested in Jerel. I think with 8 European projects drafted but unlikely to land on rosters, that Jerel has a legitimate chance to land on an NBA roster this year.
Title: Re: McNeal has a really good shot with the Kings
Post by: PuertoRicanNightmare on July 06, 2009, 10:33:11 AM
Quote from: Avenue Commons on July 06, 2009, 10:10:27 AM
Word on the street is that with Ben Gordon gone and Kirk Hinrich on the trading block, that the Bulls are interested in Jerel. I think with 8 European projects drafted but unlikely to land on rosters, that Jerel has a legitimate chance to land on an NBA roster this year.

What street? You guys keep talking about McNeal as if he's in great demand. There is no market for him, especially on the Bulls

I appreciate Jerel's contributions to Marquette, but if he makes a roster this year it'll be a surprise. He certainly won't be getting significant minutes and would likely bounce back and forth between the NBA and the Developmental League. To put him on the Bulls as a replacement for Gordon or Hinrich is laughable and delusional.
Title: Re: McNeal has a really good shot with the Kings
Post by: TomW1365 on July 06, 2009, 11:22:55 AM
You never know where McNeal may end up.  I happen to believe that he will be picked up after this summer's development league for his defensive ability.  As far as the Bulls picking him up?  I think that would be highly unlikely although they will be looking to have more of a defensive pressence on the wing.  The most obvious place would be the Sacramento Kings, since he's playing for them this summer.  If not there, I could see him filling a somewhat Jannero Pargo like role in the NBA... popping up here and there for 6 years or so.  I wish him well!
Title: Re: McNeal has a really good shot with the Kings
Post by: TomW1365 on July 06, 2009, 11:26:53 AM
Out of curiosity, are the players in the NBA summer League compensated financially? 
Title: Re: McNeal has a really good shot with the Kings
Post by: Avenue Commons on July 06, 2009, 12:22:21 PM
Quote from: PuertoRicanNightmare on July 06, 2009, 10:33:11 AM
What street? You guys keep talking about McNeal as if he's in great demand. There is no market for him, especially on the Bulls

I appreciate Jerel's contributions to Marquette, but if he makes a roster this year it'll be a surprise. He certainly won't be getting significant minutes and would likely bounce back and forth between the NBA and the Developmental League. To put him on the Bulls as a replacement for Gordon or Hinrich is laughable and delusional.

The Street = Word around Tim Grover's ATTACK athletics facility in Chicago and Sam Smith's mailbag on Bulls.com.

No one, including myself, said he would be a replacement for Gordon or Hinrich. But there will be a roster spot open, and the Bulls could fill it with a FA signing like McNeal or another FA rather than take on a large contract.

Is that enough for you, or is my post still "laughable and delusional?" 
Title: Re: McNeal has a really good shot with the Kings
Post by: TomW1365 on July 08, 2009, 09:49:41 AM
I'm a huge Bulls fan and I guess it would make sense to pick up a 1 year contract on a guy like McNeal or some other undrafted free agent.  Everyone wants to keep there payroll low with short term contracts for this upcoming year's Dwyane Wade bidding bonanza!
Title: Re: McNeal has a really good shot with the Kings
Post by: PuertoRicanNightmare on July 08, 2009, 10:04:06 AM
Quote from: Avenue Commons on July 06, 2009, 12:22:21 PM
The Street = Word around Tim Grover's ATTACK athletics facility in Chicago and Sam Smith's mailbag on Bulls.com.

No one, including myself, said he would be a replacement for Gordon or Hinrich. But there will be a roster spot open, and the Bulls could fill it with a FA signing like McNeal or another FA rather than take on a large contract.

Is that enough for you, or is my post still "laughable and delusional?" 

I just looked at Sam Smith's mailbag. Nowhere does it indicate even one iota of interest in McNeal.

Like I said, laughable and delusional.

Title: Re: McNeal has a really good shot with the Kings
Post by: Avenue Commons on July 08, 2009, 11:15:00 AM
Quote from: PuertoRicanNightmare on July 08, 2009, 10:04:06 AM

Like I said, laughable and delusional.

Yup, just like you.
Title: Re: McNeal has a really good shot with the Kings
Post by: pillardean on July 08, 2009, 11:19:23 AM
Quote from: PuertoRicanNightmare on July 08, 2009, 10:04:06 AM
I just looked at Sam Smith's mailbag. Nowhere does it indicate even one iota of interest in McNeal.

Like I said, laughable and delusional.



Perhaps to say that McNeal has a distinct spot on any roster is out of the question.  

But to say that him getting a 10 day contract for an NBA team is not out of the question, especially with the economic strain right now and lower salary caps.

Jumping around from Development to the League would still be pretty cool for the guy and us as fans.  

I say good luck and keep working hard 'Rel.
Title: Re: McNeal has a really good shot with the Kings
Post by: PuertoRicanNightmare on July 08, 2009, 11:21:19 AM
Quote from: Avenue Commons on July 08, 2009, 11:15:00 AM
Yup, just like you.

Please continue to post the "word" you get "around Tim Grover's ATTACK athletics facility."

Valuable information, it is.
Title: Re: McNeal has a really good shot with the Kings
Post by: Avenue Commons on July 08, 2009, 04:54:06 PM
Quote from: PuertoRicanNightmare on July 08, 2009, 11:21:19 AM
Please continue to post the "word" you get "around Tim Grover's ATTACK athletics facility."

Valuable information, it is.

Feel free to come on over some time and work out and hoop with some guys who actually know the game and are involved in the league and don't just talk smack on a basketball message board.
Title: Re: McNeal has a really good shot with the Kings
Post by: reinko on July 08, 2009, 08:37:56 PM
PRN = Owned
Title: Re: McNeal has a really good shot with the Kings
Post by: 77fan88warrior on July 08, 2009, 10:23:52 PM
I was reading through the posts about work ethic and thought about Wade. TomW mentioned Wade's upcoming free agency but not his work ethic. I think the best player to ever come out of MU would say he learned a work ethic at MU. Any doubters?
Title: Re: McNeal has a really good shot with the Kings
Post by: TomW1365 on July 09, 2009, 12:49:48 AM
Now how's that for dropping a name and having the same name come up in the news?!?!?!?   The Bulls just signed Jannero Pargo to a one year deal trying to replace the offence they're losing w/ Ben Gordon's departure.
Look to my earlier post about McNeal:
The most obvious place would be the Sacramento Kings, since he's playing for them this summer.  If not there, I could see him filling a somewhat Jannero Pargo like role in the NBA... popping up here and there for 6 years or so.  I wish him well!

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=aw-bulls070809&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

Now how's that for foresight?
Title: Re: McNeal has a really good shot with the Kings
Post by: GGGG on July 09, 2009, 07:53:49 AM
What foresight?  You said that McNeal could fill a Pargo-like role...and Pargo was signed by another team.  Foresight would be that McNeal actually fills that role, which he obviously hasn't done.

File this one under "coincidence."
Title: Re: McNeal has a really good shot with the Kings
Post by: GGGG on July 09, 2009, 07:56:06 AM
Quote from: reinko on July 08, 2009, 08:37:56 PM
PRN = Owned


Not really.  PRN is annoying, but Avenue Commons seems to think that because he plays basketball at the "ATTACK athletics facility" that he has some inside scoop.  Calling PRN out onto the basketball court is just a childish response.
Title: Re: McNeal has a really good shot with the Kings
Post by: Skatastrophy on July 09, 2009, 08:44:44 AM
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on July 09, 2009, 07:56:06 AM

Not really.  PRN is annoying, but Avenue Commons seems to think that because he plays basketball at the "ATTACK athletics facility" that he has some inside scoop.  Calling PRN out onto the basketball court is just a childish response.

I read AC's post as the following, unchildish, response:

He didn't call PRN out onto the court, AC just suggested  that because of his time at ATTACK he actually has inside info as opposed to PRN simply spouting off 'facts,' rebuttals and insults on the internet.
Title: Re: McNeal has a really good shot with the Kings
Post by: TomW1365 on July 09, 2009, 08:56:54 AM
Sultan-  You're absolutely right... it is more of a coincidence than forsight.  And of all the NBA players for me to have mentioned, it's a pretty big coincidence. 

On another note, 10 day contracts are great opportunities for young players that were passed over.  That's how Pargo started out, and now he's making millions!
Title: Re: McNeal has a really good shot with the Kings
Post by: PuertoRicanNightmare on July 09, 2009, 09:54:33 AM
Quote from: Avenue Commons on July 08, 2009, 04:54:06 PM
Feel free to come on over some time and work out and hoop with some guys who actually know the game and are involved in the league and don't just talk smack on a basketball message board.

Unless Vinny Del Negro and John Paxson are working out there, nobody at the Tim Grover ATTACK facility know a damn thing about who the Bulls are interested in. I don't care if it's Derrick Rose, Tyrus Thomas and Joakim Noah themselves.

But keep on being impressed. And remember you're talking to 22 year olds.

If the Bulls were interested in an undersized 2 guard who is a poor ball handler, a below average shooter and a player who has regressed defensively to replace one of the best shooters in the NBA (Gordon) or one of the most valuable 6th men in the league at the end of the year (Hinrich) wouldn't they have signed him as a free agent?

I don't give a rat's ass what the "word" is over there. The word is wrong. It's not "inside info."
Title: Re: McNeal has a really good shot with the Kings
Post by: Avenue Commons on July 09, 2009, 04:19:01 PM
Quote from: PuertoRicanNightmare on July 09, 2009, 09:54:33 AM

I don't give a rat's ass what the "word" is over there. The word is wrong. It's not "inside info."


No, it is inside info. But unlike some on this board, I don't name drop and try to sound like a big shot. Hence, I tried to lead you to Sam Smith's mailbag where he mentioned Jerel and how SS brought it up to Bulls' brass and the fact that I got the info at Grover's gym.

What my understanding was is that the Bulls were interested in Jerel (among other FA guards, including the recently signed Pargo) who would not eat up a lot of cap room and could fill in cheaply in advance of the 2010 FA class. That's part of why Gordon wasn't even given an offer and let to go to Detroit for nothing. Hinrich, as has been widely reported, is being shopped. This will lead to two fewer guards on the Bulls next season.

Did it ever dawn on you that the Bulls mgmt. may have been interested in Jerel, but then Jerel joined the Kings' summer league team? Did it ever dawn on you that the interest is/was real but nothing more came of it than that and now Paxson and Gar Forman (who is the current Bulls GM, in case you want to start paying attention) signed Pargo, who plays THE EXACT SAME GAME AS JEREL?

Therefore, that's why I referred to it colloquially as "the word on the street." You're right, it's all just rumors in the end, but sources and context matter.

Title: Re: McNeal has a really good shot with the Kings
Post by: PuertoRicanNightmare on July 09, 2009, 04:36:37 PM
Thanks for the info on Gar Forman. What would I do without you. You'll notice I referenced "working out." If you've ever seen Gar Forman, you'd know it wouldn't apply to him. I'm well aware of his new "title," which carries about as much weight at the Bulls decision making table as Sam Smith's online column.
Title: Re: McNeal has a really good shot with the Kings
Post by: Avenue Commons on July 09, 2009, 04:54:26 PM
Quote from: PuertoRicanNightmare on July 09, 2009, 04:36:37 PM
Thanks for the info on Gar Forman. What would I do without you. You'll notice I referenced "working out." If you've ever seen Gar Forman, you'd know it wouldn't apply to him. I'm well aware of his new "title," which carries about as much weight at the Bulls decision making table as Sam Smith's online column.


100%. You are right. I am wrong. You are the winner. I am the loser. Enjoy your victory.
Title: Re: McNeal has a really good shot with the Kings
Post by: Avenue Commons on July 09, 2009, 04:59:16 PM
Hmm, bye bye Hinrich?

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=4317515 (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=4317515)
Title: Re: McNeal has a really good shot with the Kings
Post by: nyg on July 09, 2009, 06:35:46 PM
If Bulls trade Hinrich, they must get a guard in return somewhere. After losing Gordon and drafting two forwards, the only guards left are Derrick Rose and Anthony Roberson. 
Title: Re: McNeal has a really good shot with the Kings
Post by: 4everwarriors on July 09, 2009, 07:39:14 PM
The next guy that types McNeal, James, and Matthews are joining the Bulls roster since they are short of guards is an idiot.
Title: Re: McNeal has a really good shot with the Kings
Post by: GGGG on July 09, 2009, 08:28:35 PM
Quote from: nyg on July 09, 2009, 06:35:46 PM
If Bulls trade Hinrich, they must get a guard in return somewhere. After losing Gordon and drafting two forwards, the only guards left are Derrick Rose and Anthony Roberson. 


I bet McNeal not only makes the Bulls, he'll probably start!!!
Title: Re: McNeal has a really good shot with the Kings
Post by: Sir Lawrence on July 09, 2009, 08:56:42 PM
Quote from: TomW1365 on July 06, 2009, 11:26:53 AM
Out of curiosity, are the players in the NBA summer League compensated financially? 

(c) The only compensation that may be paid by a Team or any person or entity affiliated with a Team to a player participating in a summer basketball league is a reasonable expense allowance for: (1) meals, but no greater than that set forth in Article III, Section 2; (2) lodging; and (3) transportation to and from the player's home to the site of the summer league, and to and from the site of the player's lodging during the summer league to the site of summer-league-related activities. In addition, the Team may purchase a disability insurance policy for the player covering the term of the applicable summer league.
Title: Re: McNeal has a really good shot with the Kings
Post by: rocky_warrior on July 10, 2009, 11:19:10 AM
Quote from: Sir Lawrence on July 09, 2009, 08:56:42 PM
(3) transportation to and from the player's home to the site of the summer league, and to and from the site of the player's lodging during the summer league to the site of summer-league-related activities.

Bentley's for everyone  ;D
EhPortal 1.39.9 © 2025, WebDev