http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/story/11876826
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=4274459
All things considered, not a bad hire by USC. He's shown he can take a program back, and he knows the Pac 10 fairly well. Only thing I would worry about is when the phone rings from the NBA. He's stated many times his preference coaching in the NBA over the college ranks.
Ironically, this is the second program where he took over for the coach hired immediately after Rick Majerus.
Quote from: MUfan12 on June 20, 2009, 12:29:11 PM
All things considered, not a bad hire by USC. He's shown he can take a program back, and he knows the Pac 10 fairly well. Only thing I would worry about is when the phone rings from the NBA. He's stated many times his preference coaching in the NBA over the college ranks.
He did so well playing 3rd fiddle at Tennessee I can't wait to see what he does at USC. He was choice 10+ here locally as no one else would touch the job. But KO is without a job and USC is deep crap so why not if you're KO.
His 171-180 record is sure to set shockwaves through Southern Cal this morning.
Besides, if he loved the MU coeds as much as he did, he'll love the SC ones. ;D
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on June 20, 2009, 12:52:46 PM
Besides, if he loved the MU coeds as much as he did, he'll love the SC ones. ;D
But will they love him? He's 15 years older now.
Nice.
I'm sure coaching for a high-profile program in LA has a lot to do with his decision.
He's probably eyeing the Lakers' coaching position when Jackson retires!
EDIT: I just ran across the headline in my local newspaper (http://www.mercurynews.com/breakingnews/ci_12655249?nclick_check=1).
Forget about him being a head coach at Tennessee, interim coach/long time assistant at Arizona, or even an NBA assistant! LOL!
Hope the contract is worth enough so he won't have to blow his nose with it. ;D
http://msn.foxsports.com/cbk/story/9707972/O&
ouch. What a slam.
No wonder Hayward loves this guy.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on June 20, 2009, 12:52:46 PM
He did so well playing 3rd fiddle at Tennessee I can't wait to see what he does at USC. He was choice 10+ here locally as no one else would touch the job. But KO is without a job and USC is deep crap so why not if you're KO.
His 171-180 record is sure to set shockwaves through Southern Cal this morning.
Besides, if he loved the MU coeds as much as he did, he'll love the SC ones. ;D
Agree 100% with his losing record as a head coach. For a mjor school to hire someone with losing record takes guts.
Give the poor guy a break.......I wish KO all the best as he's paid dearly for leaving MU and being cursed ever since.
Quote from: 77ncaachamps on June 20, 2009, 02:18:11 PM
Nice.
I'm sure coaching for a high-profile program in LA has a lot to do with his decision.
He's probably eyeing the Lakers' coaching position when Jackson retires!
EDIT: I just ran across the headline in my local newspaper (http://www.mercurynews.com/breakingnews/ci_12655249?nclick_check=1).
Forget about him being a head coach at Tennessee, interim coach/long time assistant at Arizona, or even an NBA assistant! LOL!
USC is not remotely a "high-profile program". Football, without question. In basketball, the are in the extremely large shadow of the Bruins.
Quote from: 79Warrior on June 20, 2009, 05:06:00 PM
USC is not remotely a "high-profile program". Football, without question. In basketball, the are in the extremely large shadow of the Bruins.
+1
What stood out to me in the Arizona Republic article (above) was this:
"He takes over a USC program that won at least 20 games and made the NCAA tournament each of the last three seasons, both school records. But all is not well with the Trojans."That's a school record? That does not a high-profile program make!
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on June 20, 2009, 04:13:28 PM
http://msn.foxsports.com/cbk/story/9707972/O&
ouch. What a slam.
No wonder Hayward loves this guy.
Chicos, seriously, are you slamming O'Neill as a veiled way of propping Crean up? I highly doubt he was banging co-eds in the early 90's (he might have been trying), but who cares? Nobody thought he was an altar boy at MU...but that's what a lot of people liked about him. He was who he was.
He was a fantastic coach at Marquette and was also great at Northwestern. I think it's a pretty good hire by USC.
By the way, his resume is more impressive than Tim Floyd's was...and I liked Tim Floyd!
Quote from: PuertoRicanNightmare on June 20, 2009, 06:19:20 PM
Chicos, seriously, are you slamming O'Neill as a veiled way of propping Crean up? I highly doubt he was banging co-eds in the early 90's (he might have been trying), but who cares? Nobody thought he was an altar boy at MU...but that's what a lot of people liked about him. He was who he was.
He was a fantastic coach at Marquette and was also great at Northwestern. I think it's a pretty good hire by USC.
By the way, his resume is more impressive than Tim Floyd's was...and I liked Tim Floyd!
If he can learn from his mistakes, he clearly can recruit and knows his Xs and Os. I think one of the reasons he failed at Arizona is because those weren't his guys and didn't know his style when he got there. This is probably his last chance at a decent job though.
I sit corrected on the "high-profile" remark.
But isn't your program "high-profile" if you're constantly in the news?!?
If it wasn't for Kevin we'd be looking up at Loyola-Chicago.
I will always be thankful to him (and TC) for keeping MU on the map.
Go Trojans.
Quote from: PuertoRicanNightmare on June 20, 2009, 06:19:20 PM
Chicos, seriously, are you slamming O'Neill as a veiled way of propping Crean up? I highly doubt he was banging co-eds in the early 90's (he might have been trying), but who cares? Nobody thought he was an altar boy at MU...but that's what a lot of people liked about him. He was who he was.
He was a fantastic coach at Marquette and was also great at Northwestern. I think it's a pretty good hire by USC.
By the way, his resume is more impressive than Tim Floyd's was...and I liked Tim Floyd!
You seriously doubt it....well you would be wrong. Check your inbox
And no, my opinions of KO have nothing to do with Crean. KO did a good job and helped rebuild the program, but people here have memories that are awfully short. He had two good seasons and did well in recruiting, but he had a HUGE HUGE HUGE advantage of UW-Madison absolutely sucking balls at the time. No way in the last 10 years that he gets Key, MacIlvaine and Logterman with how good UW-madison is now. Just wouldn't happen.
He also had the 2nd worst season of any coach in the last 30 years (besting Dukiet by 1 game). His major accomplishment was a Sweet 16 which was terrific at that time, but in the process he also crapped on the university every chance he got (causing public embarrassment to the school, the athletic department and the alumni). His antics off the court were a complete joke, many of them in public which lead to his personal life downfall. I'm glad he turned MU around but equally glad that he left. There's a reason the man has bounced from one job to another the last 20 years, and it's not hard to figure out why.
Quote from: The Lens on June 21, 2009, 05:16:00 AM
If it wasn't for Kevin we'd be looking up at Loyola-Chicago.
I will always be thankful to him (and TC) for keeping MU on the map.
Go Trojans.
On that I agree. His work ethic helped keep MU relevant at a time when the university just didn't get it. Did not want to spend the money, update facilities, etc. But his departure was also good for a number of reasons that I'm not going to get into publicly. Good luck at SC.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on June 21, 2009, 12:45:28 PM
He also had the 2nd worst season of any coach in the last 30 years (besting Dukiet by 1 game). His major accomplishment was a Sweet 16 which was terrific at that time, but in the process he also crapped on the university every chance he got (causing public embarrassment to the school, the athletic department and the alumni). His antics off the court were a complete joke, many of them in public which lead to his personal life downfall. I'm glad he turned MU around but equally glad that he left. There's a reason the man has bounced from one job to another the last 20 years, and it's not hard to figure out why.
Chicos - whats up with you and KO? He pulled us out of the gutter. You don't seem to be upset that crean had a 6-24 season at Indiana. Those 1st 2 seasons were part of the rebuilding process and ended with MU returning to the sweet 16.
Quote from: mviale on June 21, 2009, 01:46:07 PM
Chicos - whats up with you and KO? He pulled us out of the gutter. You don't seem to be upset that crean had a 6-24 season at Indiana. Those 1st 2 seasons were part of the rebuilding process and ended with MU returning to the sweet 16.
Simple, I thank him for what he did on the basketball court. His actions off the court were an embarrassment for the university in so many ways. I don't think the most highly visible person representing the university, a Catholic university, should be acting in the ways that he did.
Why don't you ask Fox Sports what their beef is with KO, it's not like I'm the only one. There are administrators and alums littered across this country that will tell you the same thing. His act off the court is not worth the trouble.
As for IU, that was Crean's first year there returning ONE player that averaged 1.6 points per game. That's what he had returning, plus he was playing in the Big Ten. KO, in his SECOND year, went 11-18 in that awfully difficult MCC despite having Anglavar, Damon Key, Tervor Powell, Robb Logterman. ::) Mind you his first year we went 15-14 with Trevor Powell, Anglavar, Tony Smith.
He did a nice job, but memories are awfully short around here in terms of the competition we played, the talent on some of those teams, and state of programs we were competing against (Wisconsin-madison was a joke, Illinois was on probation, etc, etc)....he didn't exactly have that high a mountain to climb and what he did do was get us two NCAA wins in 5 years, a lot of public embarrassment and a quick bolt for another job that wasn't even at an elite basketball school, helping to cement that MU was a stepping stone school. Sorry, but I commend him for the Sweet 16, not cheating and showing that MU could be relevant again. Aside from that, the personal flaws he had were a time bomb for the university and I'm glad he left. There's a reason he's had a gazillion jobs since MU. A very real reason.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on June 21, 2009, 02:05:55 PM
Simple, I thank him for what he did on the basketball court. His actions off the court were an embarrassment for the university in so many ways. I don't think the most highly visible person representing the university, a Catholic university, should be acting in the ways that he did.
Why don't you ask Fox Sports what their beef is with KO, it's not like I'm the only one. There are administrators and alums littered across this country that will tell you the same thing. His act off the court is not worth the trouble.
As for IU, that was Crean's first year there returning ONE player that averaged 1.6 points per game. That's what he had returning, plus he was playing in the Big Ten. KO, in his SECOND year, went 11-18 in that awfully difficult MCC despite having Anglavar, Damon Key, Tervor Powell, Robb Logterman. ::) Mind you his first year we went 15-14 with Trevor Powell, Anglavar, Tony Smith.
He did a nice job, but memories are awfully short around here in terms of the competition we played, the talent on some of those teams, and state of programs we were competing against (Wisconsin-madison was a joke, Illinois was on probation, etc, etc)....he didn't exactly have that high a mountain to climb and what he did do was get us two NCAA wins in 5 years, a lot of public embarrassment and a quick bolt for another job that wasn't even at an elite basketball school, helping to cement that MU was a stepping stone school. Sorry, but I commend him for the Sweet 16, not cheating and showing that MU could be relevant again. Aside from that, the personal flaws he had were a time bomb for the university and I'm glad he left. There's a reason he's had a gazillion jobs since MU. A very real reason.
So for TC wins, graduation rates and players avoiding the police blotter are all that matters. His "personal flaws" are immaterial when discussing his legacy. But for KO his "personal flaws" are tantamount and define his tenure. Interesting.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on June 21, 2009, 05:06:48 PM
So for TC wins, graduation rates and players avoiding the police blotter are all that matters. His "personal flaws" are immaterial when discussing his legacy. But for KO his "personal flaws" are tantamount and define his tenure. Interesting.
Very very large difference between TC's flaws and KO's.
I'm very appreciative for KO's tenure, but TC took us further against tougher competition. Both maybe dickheads off the court, but I think it is pretty clear that TC was the better coach while he was at MU. I have no desire for either one to fail because they both gave it their all when they were here.
Quote from: bma725 on June 21, 2009, 07:56:05 PM
Very very large difference between TC's flaws and KO's.
How? One guy treated people like crap, thought he was bigger than the school and its traditions. Another acted like a frat boy and trashed a few hotel rooms. Seems to me that both are bad but TC's are always written off as CEO behavior.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on June 21, 2009, 05:06:48 PM
So for TC wins, graduation rates and players avoiding the police blotter are all that matters. His "personal flaws" are immaterial when discussing his legacy. But for KO his "personal flaws" are tantamount and define his tenure. Interesting.
Can you document these personal flaws of Crean's you refer to? I keep hearing about these numerous "personal flaws" that Crean supposedly has. Yet nobody ever seems to state what they are.
Oh, we hear about his tan quite a bit. And that he was a "self-promoter." And the rumored altercation with a Louisville fan (as reported by UL fans, but accepted as fact). Let's not leave out and Hayward's trumped up summer camp story (a charge rendered meaningless by the fact that he sent his kids anyway).
Nobody's ever been able to cite anything terribly damaging with any specifics--certainly nothing as damaging to Marquette as O'Neill's departure for a 2nd rate Tennessee program and then the verbal shot he took at MU as he left.
Quote from: Marquette84 on June 21, 2009, 09:27:01 PM
Can you document these personal flaws of Crean's you refer to? I keep hearing about these numerous "personal flaws" that Crean supposedly has. Yet nobody ever seems to state what they are.
Oh, we hear about his tan quite a bit. And that he was a "self-promoter." And the rumored altercation with a Louisville fan (as reported by UL fans, but accepted as fact). Let's not leave out and Hayward's trumped up summer camp story (a charge rendered meaningless by the fact that he sent his kids anyway).
Nobody's ever been able to cite anything terribly damaging with any specifics--certainly nothing as damaging to Marquette as O'Neill's departure for a 2nd rate Tennessee program and then the verbal shot he took at MU as he left.
Please document KO's flaws too? Is this one? Poor Indiana.
During his tenure as the Northwestern coach O'Neill is most notably remembered for a game with Indiana where the rowdy Northwestern faithful chanted "Who's your Daddy?" at opposing coach Bob Knight. Of course this did not sit well with Knight as he and O'Neill got into it during the contest. However all was settled under a practice gym basket well after the game as ESPN camera crews caught the coaches talking their issues out.
KO was brutally honest. Always opinionated and and is not in it to win a popularity contest. No hidden agenda. He's also a very good defensive coach. Crean, the dickhead on the other hand, is as phony as a 3 dollar bill. He's never believable and uses people for his own personal gain. He thinks he's fooling people, but really not smart enough to pull it off.
If Shakespeare wrote it KO would be the tragically flawed hero (Othello) and TC would be the small, meddlesome, self-centered villian (Iago). No doubt that KO's lack of self control has caused damage in both his personal and professional life. TC, on the other hand, is a master of self control. He is as consistant in fostering relationships with those who can prove useful as he is in belittling those he deems inconsequential.
KO made you shake your head and wonder what might have been, but you always knew who he was. TC was a master of the con, but eventually you found out who he was too.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on June 21, 2009, 05:06:48 PM
So for TC wins, graduation rates and players avoiding the police blotter are all that matters. His "personal flaws" are immaterial when discussing his legacy. But for KO his "personal flaws" are tantamount and define his tenure. Interesting.
Please tell me you are joking....the difference between the two's behavior off the court was night and day. Crean's personal flaws are a 3 vs KO's as a 10 if you knew anything about the situation. And they didn't stop at MU but continued on elsewhere. Do you think just maybe there was a reason he's had so many jobs in his basketball career?
Oh no, sounds like KO is giving the "coach speak" about what a great job USC is (just like every coach does, Crean or whomever).
http://usctrojans.cstv.com/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/062009aac.html
Quote from: Lennys Tap on June 21, 2009, 11:06:55 PM
. No doubt that KO's lack of self control has caused damage in both his personal and professional life. TC, on the other hand, is a master of self control. He is as consistant in fostering relationships with those who can prove useful as he is in belittling those he deems inconsequential.
KO made you shake your head and wonder what might have been, but you always knew who he was. TC was a master of the con, but eventually you found out who he was too.
So, apparently, your argument rests on the fact that O'Neill was an ass to everyone he came across, while Crean was an ass only to those who deserved it?
But more to the point, once again I ask for examples, and I get more undocumented generalities. Any examples of the "belittling of the inconsequential" you refer to? Do any of these alleged acts of belittling even come close to the public comments O'Neill made dissing MU and its fan base as he left town?
Quote from: The Lens on June 21, 2009, 08:38:45 PM
How? One guy treated people like crap, thought he was bigger than the school and its traditions. Another acted like a frat boy and trashed a few hotel rooms. Seems to me that both are bad but TC's are always written off as CEO behavior.
Both treated people like crap and thought they were bigger than the school and it's traditions. If you think KO was any different than TC in that regard then you've lost your mind. In fact KO treated many people far worse than Crean ever did.
You can write it off as frat boy behavior, but there is a very large difference between giving your son an award at a basketball camp and cheating on your wife with a 19 year old college student...especially when you are a public figure at a Catholic university.
Quote from: bma725 on June 22, 2009, 12:38:27 AM
You can write it off as frat boy behavior, but there is a very large difference between giving your son an award at a basketball camp and cheating on your wife with a 19 year old college student...especially when you are a public figure at a Catholic university.
That just might be the knockout punch.
Quote from: Marquette84 on June 22, 2009, 12:26:17 AM
So, apparently, your argument rests on the fact that O'Neill was an ass to everyone he came across, while Crean was an ass only to those who deserved it?
But more to the point, once again I ask for examples, and I get more undocumented generalities. Any examples of the "belittling of the inconsequential" you refer to? Do any of these alleged acts of belittling even come close to the public comments O'Neill made dissing MU and its fan base as he left town?
That you can suggest that my post suggests that TC "was an ass only to those that deserve it" shows either a staggering lack of comprehension on your part or an agreement with the philosophy that people we can't use deserve our contempt.
My examples come from people who have had the "pleasure" of dealing with TC over the years. They include, but are not limited to, high school coaches, MU alumni, staff and a doctor or two. They paint the picture of an arrogant user of people whose first, second and third concern is Tom Crean.
I'm surprised at the outrage of some people when it comes to a coach's personality. Quite often, coaches have a huge ego, a rough temperament, are super demanding of their team and employees, have personal or family issues outside of the job, possibly drink, etc.
None of this stuff is new, yet I feel like some of you guys feel so shocked and outraged when you find out that the coach is really an ass. (example: http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=14925.msg139167#msg139167 (http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=14925.msg139167#msg139167))
I've got news for you, most successful coaches are asses (at least some of the time), self-promoters, hard nosed, hard working, cocky SOBs.
It's takes an extremely big personality to make it in college hoops.
- Was Kevin Oneil an ass? Probably. (speculation because I don't actually know him).
- Was it ok that he was an ass because at least he was an ass to EVERYBODY? No. It is not ok to be an ass just because you are "up front with it".
- Was Tom Crean an ass? Yep, probably in a lot of cases.
- Was it ok that Tom Crean was a great ass kisser in public and a hard ass in private? Nope. That doesn't make it ok
However, to claim that KO is a better guy because "he is real" is asinine. Coaches in EVERY sport are putting on an act most of the time. Do you think any coach likes kissing up to the crusty old alumni at any school? Do you think coaches enjoy kissing an AAU coach's ass in order to gain favor with a player?
Get real.
These guy are paid to win games, graduate players, and represent the university well. They are not paid to be your personal hero.
Get over it.
COFFEE IS FOR CLOSERS! (some rough language in here, so keep the volume down at work)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TROhlThs9qY
EDIT: Grammar
Quote from: Lennys Tap on June 22, 2009, 09:32:04 AM
That you can suggest that my post suggests that TC "was an ass only to those that deserve it" shows either a staggering lack of comprehension on your part or an agreement with the philosophy that people we can't use deserve our contempt.
My examples come from people who have had the "pleasure" of dealing with TC over the years. They include, but are not limited to, high school coaches, MU alumni, staff and a doctor or two. They paint the picture of an arrogant user of people whose first, second and third concern is Tom Crean.
Again, you're talking about a person's arrogance vs another coach's ACTIONS that were deplorable, especially as the most recognized representative of the university. What is wrong with you people. This isn't a shades of gray issue, this is night and day differences.
Thank you 2002alum. That is 100% dead on.
Since Al, probably the nicest coaches that we have had at MU have been Hank Raymonds and Bob Dukiet. Raymond's tenure is largely considered to be a disappointment, and Dukiet's a failure. I am not saying that nice guys can't be good coaches, but we judge our coaches by winning, graduating players and staying out of trouble on the recruiting trail.
Do I care that TC was an ass to a few coaches and MU staff members? I guess....but I care a lot more that he won while he was here and graduated his players.
As a bona fide KO apologist, who was not attending MU during the period of 1989-1994, what are the allegations leveled against KO in terms of inappropriate behavior? I know he swore frequently, but I'm willing to overlook that.
Quote from: Warrior of Law on June 22, 2009, 11:45:53 AM
As a bona fide KO apologist, who was not attending MU during the period of 1989-1994, what are the allegations leveled against KO in terms of inappropriate behavior? I know he swore frequently, but I'm willing to overlook that.
I would like to see this as well. Gregg Doyel of CBSSports and some people on this board make it seem like Kevin O'Neill is worse than Satan, but nobody seems to offer any proof of his supposed evil deeds.
Here is the hit piece that Doyel wrote:
http://www.cbssports.com/columns/story/11877087
This is probably too much honesty, but here you go: I decided weeks ago to like the next basketball coach at Southern California. No matter what, I was going to like the guy. After disliking Henry Bibby for being a jerk and seeming shady, and after loathing Rick Majerus for being a horrible human being away from the TV cameras, and after coming close to hating Tim Floyd for being as scummy as the bottom of a dormitory toilet, I was going to like the next guy. Whoever he was.
Reggie Theus? Actually I know him, and love him. Lon Kruger? Know him, and like him very much. Jeff Van Gundy? Don't know him, but what the hell. I'll give him a chance. I'm sick of hating on USC, so, sure. Jeff Van Gundy would have been fine.
Basically, USC could have hired anybody other than, well, let's pull out a ridiculous name. USC could have hired anybody but Kevin O'Neill, and I was going to like it, whether I liked it or not.
But I'll be damned. USC hired Kevin O'Neill.
Which is a relief, honestly. Having to fake it, having to embrace cadaver-like Jeff Van Gundy, was going to be hard. I was going to do it, but -- wow. Would have been hard.
• USC hires O'Neill | Parrish: O'Neill back in Pac-10? Really
Faking it with Kevin O'Neill? Acting like I like this hire? Can't do it. Kevin Spacey couldn't do it. Laurence Olivier couldn't do it, and he's deader than Jeff Van Gundy.
In a moment we'll get to some actually insightful stuff, but for now, let me state why I dislike O'Neill. It's not original stuff. You've probably heard this before, although you've not heard the way I'll say it:
Kevin O'Neill is a big, fat meanie.
Show me somebody who meets two criteria -- (1) knows Kevin O'Neill and (2) claims to like Kevin O'Neill -- and I'll show you a liar. Or an actor on the level of Kevin Spacey. Maybe even Laurence Olivier. It's possible that a dead man could like Kevin O'Neill, but it would have to be one stupid dead man. Like the stiff from Weekend at Bernie's. Maybe he likes Kevin O'Neill.
He'd be the first.
Everyone knows that everyone hates Kevin O'Neill, and I can promise you it doesn't hurt O'Neill's feelings. He conducts himself in a way that says, You will hate me, or my name isn't Kevin O'Neill. He wants your hate. He feeds off it. He insults players and staffers. He has the Buck Showalter Syndrome of thinking he invented the game. He's volatile in a way that would frighten even volatile people. His NBA coaching career died long ago, but stories of his temper tantrums -- in locker rooms, in hotel rooms -- live on. To know Kevin O'Neill is to hate him.
And still, USC hired him.
Which brings me to that insightful stuff I promised earlier:
Hiring Kevin O'Neill confirms just how much trouble the USC basketball program was in -- and still is in -- thanks to the Trojans' previous coach. Scummy Tim Floyd resigned amid an NCAA investigation into his scummy dealings with scummy O.J. Mayo and the scummy losers who were hanging around Mayo back when he was a high school senior.
Even with a brand-new facility and the plummeting stock of longtime Pac-10 bully Arizona (thanks in part to Kevin O'Neill!), the Trojans couldn't give this job away to a real candidate. Why? Because the Trojans must be in deep, deep doo-doo with the NCAA.
Whatever USC told its first two or three or 14 choices about the NCAA investigation, it was bad. So bad that it scared off all of them. All of them but O'Neill, who will just reinvent the game and have the Trojans winning 20 in no time.
By hiring O'Neill, USC also is dropping to its knees in remorse before the NCAA, which still is looking into the only sport on campus that matters to USC athletics director Mike Garrett, the USC football program. See, Kevin O'Neill is clean. He's not a cheater. Say what you want about Kevin O'Neill -- but don't say that only a stupid dead man could like him; that's piling on -- but you can't say he's dirty. You know what he is? He's Bob Knight Lite. Big jerk. But a big, clean jerk. Hiring O'Neill lets the NCAA know that your school is serious (finally) about having a clean basketball program.
Not that having a clean basketball program matters at USC. It doesn't. The basketball program at USC is something to be pitied, because it suffers from awful neglect. Hiring Bibby was neglectful. Trying to hire Majerus was neglectful. Tim Floyd? Awful. Mike Garrett simply didn't care. His baby is the football team. Think about it: USC basketball will go into the 2009-10 season with the guy who couldn't cut it as the interim coach at Pac-10 rival Arizona. That's some neglectful parenting right there -- like having a fat kid and feeding him Little Debbies all day long. It's so wrong, it's cruel.
Mike Garrett doesn't get it, but neglectful parents never do. After hiring O'Neill, Garrett took the time to get his explanatory statement right. He put out a news release with a comment, meaning he knew the question before he had to give the answer. And still he whiffed. Garrett said he picked O'Neill because, and I quote, "He stresses defense, and I've always believed defense wins championships."
The defending champion in college basketball is North Carolina. Guess where North Carolina was ranked last season in defense?
No. 275.
Really good high school recruits don't pick a school because they want to play defense. They pick a school because they want to score. They pick a school because they like the offense, and because they like the head coach.
Which means they'll have to find a new reason to pick Southern California.
Because nobody likes Kevin O'Neill.
Quote from: bma725 on June 22, 2009, 12:38:27 AM
cheating on your wife with a 19 year old college student....
I don't know if the allegations are a one time occurrence, multiple occurrences with the same co-ed, or multiple occurrences with different co-eds.
Quick question, wasn't TC the best man at KO's wedding or vice versa? Thus indicating they're pretty darn good friends?
SC, he's not worse than Satan. But his actions, most of which should not be discussed here in detail, are not appropriate for the most visible person at a university, especially a Jesuit Catholic university. He made a number of very poor choices in the public sphere that can come back to bite a university, especially at a place like MU.
He didn't cheat at basketball or recruiting, most of his kids graduated, he won more than he lost (until he went to other schools) and he did a good job keeping MU on the map. For that we should tip our hat to him.
Beyond that, MU deserves better than having to worry about the coach's behavior 24/7 and whether it ends up biting the university in some way. It's hard enough to worry about 12 young men aged 18-23, you shouldn't have to worry about the coach, too.
There's a reason why he's bounced around. There's a reason why people like Eustachy, etc and their behaviors aren't tolerated. Thank God the internet wasn't what it is now back in 1989-1994, that's where I'm going to leave it. Hopefully he's toned things down considerably, though here in L.A. 99% of the people wouldn't be able to identify the USC basketball coach if he was wearing a t-shirt saying he was the USC Basketball coach.
So what I'm hearing is that KO got fired from multiple universities for hooking up with 19 year old hotties? (Silently gives KO an imaginary high five in my head)
Not to disagree with that Sportsline article on the whole (even though it doesn't seem to offer any justification for the KO-hate other than temper tantrums) - or even on the specific point that kids don't pick colleges based upon their defense - but to claim UNC was 275th in defense last year shows an incredible fundamental misunderstanding of basketball for someone who's presumably paid to write about the subject. ?-(
Quote from: dsfire on June 22, 2009, 01:03:07 PM
Not to disagree with that Sportsline article on the whole (even though it doesn't seem to offer any justification for the KO-hate other than temper tantrums) - or even on the specific point that kids don't pick colleges based upon their defense - but to claim UNC was 275th in defense last year shows an incredible fundamental misunderstanding of basketball for someone who's presumably paid to write about the subject. ?-(
Yeah that line made me wonder too...I'll divert to the "eye-test" for how good UNC's defense was last year over some stat that he dug up to make his point.
Quote from: Shack on June 22, 2009, 12:41:42 PM
So what I'm hearing is that KO got fired from multiple universities for hooking up with 19 year old hotties? (Silently gives KO an imaginary high five in my head)
I just bought him a beer.
Quote from: Shack on June 22, 2009, 12:41:42 PM
So what I'm hearing is that KO got fired from multiple universities for hooking up with 19 year old hotties? (Silently gives KO an imaginary high five in my head)
No one said they were hot.
Chicos, I love that last comment
By the way anyone care to guess what the under will be for the Wash St - USC game. Could they just agree the first one to 20 wins.
Quote from: bma725 on June 22, 2009, 01:29:18 PM
No one said they were hot.
I applaud him for attempting to build the self-esteem of a less-than-attractive Marquette undergrad.
My question is...are there any "attractive" options at Marquette? Unless my 4 years were an anomaly, the attractive options were few and far between. At USC on the other hand...
Quote from: PJDunn on June 22, 2009, 02:14:26 PM
My question is...are there any "attractive" options at Marquette? Unless my 4 years were an anomaly, the attractive options were few and far between. At USC on the other hand...
It's LA, the 5's in LA are 10's in the Midwest...after visiting LA a few times I can say this is a fact. But, it still doesn't make it anything less than a chore to engage in any sort of conversation with them.
But, I'd like to see the track records of all the posters that claim there aren't hot chicks at MU. Those dudes must be pulling in some boy-band tail...
Quote from: PJDunn on June 22, 2009, 02:14:26 PM
My question is...are there any "attractive" options at Marquette?
Yes.
Not as plentiful as at, say, UWM (where the "MRS Degree" is featured), but the cute ones at MU are smart.
Quote from: LancesOtherNut on June 22, 2009, 02:27:51 PM
But, I'd like to see the track records of all the posters that claim there aren't hot chicks at MU. Those dudes must be pulling in some boy-band tail...
I'd always assumed that your screen name referred to Lance Armstrong. Your last post made me realize that it might be referring to Lance Bass. (I refuse to use smileys)
Good luck KO. This MU fan remembers him fondly, from drinks on the bus to late nights recapping the game in a hotel room. Wish I still had the MU sweatshirt KO autographed as TN head coach the night we lost to Duke in Knoxville.
I will hoist one for KO tonight.
Quote from: Shack on June 22, 2009, 12:41:42 PM
So what I'm hearing is that KO got fired from multiple universities for hooking up with 19 year old hotties? (Silently gives KO an imaginary high five in my head)
No, you're not hearing that nor did anyone say he was fired at multiple universities. You're hearing that he's burned many bridges where he's been, he doesn't get along with his players, and he's done some things that he shouldn't have at MU considering the position he was in.
And no, you should not be giving him a high five for that. Sorry, but he's the public face of the university. Just as you don't give Elliott Spitzer high fives for what he was doing. Just as you don't give high fives to Eustachy for what he did, etc, etc. Public figures are expected to act accordingly in the real world. Their actions and their words affect can affect the integrity, image and reputation of the university. Let's get real here, sure it's funny and great as a guy. But as graduates, fans of the program, etc, think about for a second.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on June 22, 2009, 09:32:04 AM
My examples come from people who have had the "pleasure" of dealing with TC over the years. They include, but are not limited to, high school coaches, MU alumni, staff and a doctor or two. They paint the picture of an arrogant user of people whose first, second and third concern is Tom Crean.
Again, no actual examples--just more vague accusations of wrongdoing.
Accusations from the staff staff I'm going to dismiss out of hand. Why accept the word of some disgruntled employee. It would be one thing if if every employee left under a cloud of hatred--but Buckley was with Crean since he was hired at MU, came back after leaving Ball State, and followed Crean to IU. Brian Barone played for Crean, came to work form him at MU, and followed him to IU. Seltzer followed Crean to IU as well. Jayd Grossman left MU for Indiana.
The fact that four members of his staff followed him is evidence your claim is half-baked at best. I don't think judgment is absolute simply because Kyle Green or Jean Priloux didn't get along with Crean.
Alumni are also all over the place. For everyone who thinks Crean was arrogant, there is another story of how they ran into Crean on campus, or while travelling with the team, or somehwere else in the community, and Crean was extremely gracious.
For doctors to be calling Crean arrogant is a little like the pot calling the kettle black. If you disagree, go check with a nurse.
So that leaves the HS coaches--since they've public figures you should have no problem providing details on who specifically was wronged and what are the details of the specific accusation?
ESPN in LA dubious about his hiring but KO says on radio interviews that he is going to run and gun. Good luck to him and I hope he succeeds
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on June 22, 2009, 04:51:52 PM
No, you're not hearing that nor did anyone say he was fired at multiple universities. You're hearing that he's burned many bridges where he's been, he doesn't get along with his players, and he's done some things that he shouldn't have at MU considering the position he was in.
And no, you should not be giving him a high five for that. Sorry, but he's the public face of the university. Just as you don't give Elliott Spitzer high fives for what he was doing. Just as you don't give high fives to Eustachy for what he did, etc, etc. Public figures are expected to act accordingly in the real world. Their actions and their words affect can affect the integrity, image and reputation of the university. Let's get real here, sure it's funny and great as a guy. But as graduates, fans of the program, etc, think about for a second.
Point made, but Elliott Spitzer was a bad analogy. Prostitution is illegal. Sleeping with 19-year-old-coeds (as alleged in this thread) is perfectly legal, though, in most circles, frowned upon.
Aside from that: Debbie Downer.
I think Kevin, himself, says it best in today's LA Times. As I've said previously, I hope he's tempered things.
"Contrary to popular belief, I am not Darth Vader," O'Neill said, smiling. "People think I was slaying people every time I turned around. . . . Players don't always like the coach. Guess what, coaches don't always like all the players sometimes either."
O'Neill said that he has mellowed since the days when he was a head coach at "31 and Irish Catholic and prone to be wild on occasions." That was evident to Van Gundy, who had O'Neill as an assistant with the New York Knicks.
"I think every coach evolves and changes, continues to get better," Van Gundy said. "Kevin will probably be the first to say he is different now than when he first took over at Marquette."
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on June 22, 2009, 10:19:14 PM
I think Kevin, himself, says it best in today's LA Times. As I've said previously, I hope he's tempered things.
"Contrary to popular belief, I am not Darth Vader," O'Neill said, smiling. "People think I was slaying people every time I turned around. . . . Players don't always like the coach. Guess what, coaches don't always like all the players sometimes either."
O'Neill said that he has mellowed since the days when he was a head coach at "31 and Irish Catholic and prone to be wild on occasions." That was evident to Van Gundy, who had O'Neill as an assistant with the New York Knicks.
"I think every coach evolves and changes, continues to get better," Van Gundy said. "Kevin will probably be the first to say he is different now than when he first took over at Marquette."
Yes, but at least kevin was a d*ck to everybody, so that makes it ok.
Truth be told, I don't really care that much if the coach is a d*ck. As long as he wins, graduates players and represents the university well, I'm happy. You could argue that last point with O'Neil... but I've never met him, so I can't really comment.
Again, I'm still surprised at how much value people put on the coach being a "good guy". Why do you f-ing care? There are millions of "good guys" out there... go be friends with one of them. Leave the coaching to the guys who can get it done.
Quote from: StillAWarrior on June 22, 2009, 03:20:26 PM
I'd always assumed that your screen name referred to Lance Armstrong. Your last post made me realize that it might be referring to Lance Bass. (I refuse to use smileys)
You're correct on Lance Armstrong and couldn't be more off with Lance Bass (although it was pretty funny).
Quote from: Marquette84 on June 22, 2009, 05:41:20 PM
For doctors to be calling Crean arrogant is a little like the pot calling the kettle black. If you disagree, go check with a nurse.
For the most part, I'm on your side on this debate. But you can't blast him for vague generalities and then throw this one out there. If I understand this correctly, you're countering the claim that the team doctors thought Crean is arrogant by arguing that
all doctors are arrogant and all nurses would agree. I think your argument was fairly well stated up to here, but you lost on this point. (No, I'm not a doctor.)
Quote from: IAmMarquette on June 22, 2009, 09:13:24 PM
Sleeping with 19-year-old-coeds (as alleged in this thread) is perfectly legal, though, in most circles, frowned upon.
Actually, when married, this is called adultery and is illegal.
Quote from: BrewCity on June 23, 2009, 08:04:20 AM
Actually, when married, this is called adultery and is illegal.
Not condoning what KO did, but polygamy is illegal, never heard that adultery was. Adultry is immoral, a sin, and grounds for divorce, but not illegal. Otherwise, there'd be ALOT more people in jail.
Yeah, in fact it's been talked about this week in light of the Milwaukee Police Chief. The law is definitely on the books, but hasn't been enforced here since the early '80's.
Quote from: BrewCity on June 23, 2009, 08:18:12 AM
Yeah, in fact it's been talked about this week in light of the Milwaukee Police Chief. The law is definitely on the books, but hasn't been enforced here since the early '80's.
1880s???
An adultery law would never stand a Constitutional test these days anyway.
Wow, I stand corrected. I looked it up, adultery is a Class 1 Felony in Wisconsin.
Question is, has it ever been enforced???????
Quote from: lurch91 on June 23, 2009, 08:35:19 AM
Wow, I stand corrected. I looked it up, adultery is a Class 1 Felony in Wisconsin.
Question is, has it ever been enforced???????
Probably not in ages.
Marriages fail all the time to good people. There are good people on this board that have gone through divorce, been involved in affairs, separations, etc. We're all human beings and often there are circumstances that lead to those things happening which are often very complex. Where this gets much more sticky is that the head basketball coach isn't just a normal guy, but a representative of the university. Furthermore, a lot of times (fair or unfair) who you're choosing to mess around is a critical part of the equation.
Just listened to KON on the Dan Patrick show. He claims his job interview lasted about a minute, that salary wasn't discussed, that the possible sanctions coming down the pipeline weren't discussed. He said that he talked wtih Tim Floyd for 1/2 hour and never asked what he could expect. He said that possible impending sanctions will have no impact on how he tries to recruit. So.....coach speak or naivete? BTW, Dan Patrick was not impressed. Said he likes it when his guests actually answere questions.
Translation: KO was gonna take whatever job he could get, and USC was gonna hire anyone who would take the job.
Quote from: tower912 on June 23, 2009, 11:34:26 AM
Just listened to KON on the Dan Patrick show. He claims his job interview lasted about a minute, that salary wasn't discussed, that the possible sanctions coming down the pipeline weren't discussed. He said that he talked wtih Tim Floyd for 1/2 hour and never asked what he could expect. He said that possible impending sanctions will have no impact on how he tries to recruit. So.....coach speak or naivete? BTW, Dan Patrick was not impressed. Said he likes it when his guests actually answere questions.
Hmmm... sounds like Kevin was using a lot of coach speak. Just like almost every coach out there.
What happened to KO is an ass, but at least he's genuine? Where are the posters that told me that?
Like it has been previously said, ALL coaches are putting on an act at least some of the time. People should not be surprised or disappointed by this. It's the nature of the business.
Quote from: tower912 on June 23, 2009, 11:34:26 AM
Just listened to KON on the Dan Patrick show. He claims his job interview lasted about a minute, that salary wasn't discussed, that the possible sanctions coming down the pipeline weren't discussed. He said that he talked wtih Tim Floyd for 1/2 hour and never asked what he could expect. He said that possible impending sanctions will have no impact on how he tries to recruit. So.....coach speak or naivete? BTW, Dan Patrick was not impressed. Said he likes it when his guests actually answere questions.
Pretty much what the LA Times reported as well. He was like choice 10 (USC will say choice #4....don't believe it) and he said he was going to take it no matter what. Desperate program seeks coach = KO, nomad of many programs and a 171-180 record. Let's put it this way, UCLA fans are having a great time here bashing the USC folks. For the most part, the USC folks here are in the mode of "we're a football school, we don't care who we hired".
Quote from: Marquette84 on June 22, 2009, 05:41:20 PM
Again, no actual examples--just more vague accusations of wrongdoing.
Accusations from the staff staff I'm going to dismiss out of hand. Why accept the word of some disgruntled employee. It would be one thing if if every employee left under a cloud of hatred--but Buckley was with Crean since he was hired at MU, came back after leaving Ball State, and followed Crean to IU. Brian Barone played for Crean, came to work form him at MU, and followed him to IU. Seltzer followed Crean to IU as well. Jayd Grossman left MU for Indiana.
The fact that four members of his staff followed him is evidence your claim is half-baked at best. I don't think judgment is absolute simply because Kyle Green or Jean Priloux didn't get along with Crean.
Alumni are also all over the place. For everyone who thinks Crean was arrogant, there is another story of how they ran into Crean on campus, or while travelling with the team, or somehwere else in the community, and Crean was extremely gracious.
For doctors to be calling Crean arrogant is a little like the pot calling the kettle black. If you disagree, go check with a nurse.
So that leaves the HS coaches--since they've public figures you should have no problem providing details on who specifically was wronged and what are the details of the specific accusation?
You wouldn't accept it if his Mom said he was a phony. You'd say his Dad thought he was OK and anyway what could a women possibly know about someone who coaches basketball. Look, you can't "prove" someone is disingenuous, egotistical or arrogant. But it's not very hard to spot. Except, of course, by those with similar traits. They tend to not see what the big deal is.
Quote from: Marquette84 on June 22, 2009, 05:41:20 PM
For doctors to be calling Crean arrogant is a little like the pot calling the kettle black. If you disagree, go check with a nurse.
Wow...
1. Have you ever worked in a clinical setting?
2. Do you happen to have RN/LPN behind your name?
Full disclosure: First-year med student come August.
/Thread hijack
Quote from: Lennys Tap on June 23, 2009, 07:54:22 PM
You wouldn't accept it if his Mom said he was a phony. You'd say his Dad thought he was OK and anyway what could a women possibly know about someone who coaches basketball. Look, you can't "prove" someone is disingenuous, egotistical or arrogant. But it's not very hard to spot. Except, of course, by those with similar traits. They tend to not see what the big deal is.
"I know it when I see it" - Supreme Court Justice Potter Stewart, 1964
Quote from: 2002mualum on June 23, 2009, 12:05:37 PM
Hmmm... sounds like Kevin was using a lot of coach speak. Just like almost every coach out there.
What happened to KO is an ass, but at least he's genuine? Where are the posters that told me that?
Like it has been previously said, ALL coaches are putting on an act at least some of the time. People should not be surprised or disappointed by this. It's the nature of the business.
KO was on Homer today... Homer said: "you have no players"
KO replied: "No we have really good players" "We only need a PG"
Unlike TC at IU, KO has talked about winning from Day 1 and not making excuses.
And Homer was great to point out that in the past 25+ years MU has been to two Sweet 16s...one was Kevin's.
And while TC leaves Buzz in year two with Lazar, Cubby, Fulce and Otoule, KO in year 2 left Deane with:
Eford, McCaskill, Pieper, Crawford, Hutchins, Fai & more. 2 NBAers plus 3 really good college players. Too bad TC couldn't leave MU in as good of shape as KO left it.
Quote from: The Lens on July 02, 2009, 10:32:56 PM
KO was on Homer today... Homer said: "you have no players"
KO replied: "No we have really good players" "We only need a PG"
Unlike TC at IU, KO has talked about winning from Day 1 and not making excuses.
And Homer was great to point out that in the past 25+ years MU has been to two Sweet 16s...one was Kevin's.
And while TC leaves Buzz in year two with Lazar, Cubby, Fulce and Otoule, KO in year 2 left Deane with:
Eford, McCaskill, Pieper, Crawford, Hutchins, Fai & more. 2 NBAers plus 3 really good college players. Too bad TC couldn't leave MU in as good of shape as KO left it.
Glad you liked the interview.
Good to hear you still like KO and dislike TC.
Quote from: The Lens on July 02, 2009, 10:32:56 PM
KO was on Homer today... Homer said: "you have no players"
KO replied: "No we have really good players" "We only need a PG"
Unlike TC at IU, KO has talked about winning from Day 1 and not making excuses.
And Homer was great to point out that in the past 25+ years MU has been to two Sweet 16s...one was Kevin's.
And while TC leaves Buzz in year two with Lazar, Cubby, Fulce and Otoule, KO in year 2 left Deane with:
Eford, McCaskill, Pieper, Crawford, Hutchins, Fai & more. 2 NBAers plus 3 really good college players. Too bad TC couldn't leave MU in as good of shape as KO left it.
And unlike TC, he hasn't won like TC did, nor did he do all the other things off the court that were embarrassing as hell for a Catholic university.
And TC actually left Buzz the man who was the starting PG for Kansas and another player that started for Indiana, those two chose not to play for Buzz. You'll have to ask them why they chose not to play for Buzz because they were committed to the university.
Now, here's what TC also left Buzz. Highest attendance in MU history, a fan base that has been resurrected, the ability to recruit players to play in the Big East, a new practice facility. And if I recall correctly, he left Buzz with the number one scorer in MU history, the #3 scorer in MU history, potentially another top 5 scorer in MU history (Lazar) and some schlep named Wes Matthews. ::) TC clearly left Buzz nothing
Oh, and one more thing....I think TC hired Buzz....something so many forget. Yes, TC clearly left Buzz nothing except for the opportunity of a lifetime and baseline to work with that is the best in MU history sans one other time, 1977 when Hank took over....let's hope Buzz doesn't do what Hank did.
Best quote here in Los Angeles on sports radio: "if you find one person in this city that likes Kevin O'Neill or thinks he is a quality human being, you've met a liar"
Speaking of Ty & Nick...I've spoken with players from KOs team who said some insisted on following him & KO made it very clear; no MU players would leave, no recruits would follow.
If only St. Tom did the same with Tyshawn.
What's worse adultery or treating every human being you come in contact with like a piece of sh!t? Getting drunk & hitting on coeds or publicly disgracing George Thompson?
What a huge waste of time this thread is.
You've got to be either elderly or of not sound mind to keep posting ad nauseam week after week about essentially the same topics usually surrounding TC.
I'm kind of starting to feel bad for the frequent culprits.
Quote from: The Lens on July 02, 2009, 11:04:03 PM
Speaking of Ty & Nick...I've spoken with players from KOs team who said some insisted on following him & KO made it very clear; no MU players would leave, no recruits would follow.
If only St. Tom did the same with Tyshawn.
So are you seriously suggesting that if only TC would have insisted that no recruits should leave, that Tyshawn wouldn't have gone to KU?
Get a grip.
Quote from: The Lens on July 02, 2009, 11:04:03 PM
Speaking of Ty & Nick...I've spoken with players from KOs team who said some insisted on following him & KO made it very clear; no MU players would leave, no recruits would follow.
If only St. Tom did the same with Tyshawn.
Crean couldn't have stopped Tyshawn from leaving if he would have wanted to. Couldn't have stopped any of them from leaving. Marquette could have refused to release the recruits, but Crean couldn't have stopped them. The only thing he could have done -- and it would have been the classy thing to do -- is refuse to take Nick Williams at Indiana. By the way, the fact that players wanted to be here when Crean was here, but wanted to leave after he left flies in the face of the argument that he treats everyone like sh*t. Amazing how many people seem to like a guy that treats everyone badly. I know, I know, they're all rubes, but you have the insight to see the real Tom Crean.
Quote from: The Lens on July 02, 2009, 11:04:03 PMWhat's worse adultery or treating every human being you come in contact with like a piece of sh!t? Getting drunk & hitting on coeds or publicly disgracing George Thompson?
Are these trick questions? Even assuming Crean did these things (and I think there's plenty of room to debate that) the fact that you've asked the questions makes me think we're going to disagree on the answers.
Quote from: The Lens on July 02, 2009, 11:04:03 PM
Speaking of Ty & Nick...I've spoken with players from KOs team who said some insisted on following him & KO made it very clear; no MU players would leave, no recruits would follow.
If only St. Tom did the same with Tyshawn.
What's worse adultery or treating every human being you come in contact with like a piece of sh!t? Getting drunk & hitting on coeds or publicly disgracing George Thompson?
This is foolish. Completely different time periods you are comparing. The patience of a player to "stay with it" is much thinner these days then possibly ever before. Claiming that TC is at fault for this new mindset being shown with Taylor is misguided.
As for the latter, Crean didn't treat
every human like a piece a crap.
Quote from: StillAWarrior on July 03, 2009, 07:20:32 AM
Crean couldn't have stopped Tyshawn from leaving if he would have wanted to. Couldn't have stopped any of them from leaving. Marquette could have refused to release the recruits, but Crean couldn't have stopped them. The only thing he could have done -- and it would have been the classy thing to do -- is refuse to take Nick Williams at Indiana.
I don't think Buzz even wanted Williams. MU released him as soon as he asked.