I have a growing expectation that Wesley Matthews will be drafted ahead of Jerel McNeal in the NBA draft, if McNeal is drafted at all.
I would love seeing both taken, but my gut has always been that Matthews is more "NBA" than is McNeal.
Matthews brings a steadiness and sense of control to the court. McNeal, meanwhile, brings a herky-jerky style of play that worked oftentimes against certain collegiate competition but will not play in the NBA.
Quote from: MU Avenue on June 16, 2009, 07:02:42 AM
I have a growing expectation that Wesley Matthews will be drafted ahead of Jerel McNeal in the NBA draft, if McNeal is drafted at all.
I would love seeing both taken, but my gut has always been that Matthews is more "NBA" than is McNeal.
Matthews brings a steadiness and sense of control to the court. McNeal, meanwhile, brings a herky-jerky style of play that worked oftentimes against certain collegiate competition but will not play in the NBA.
ok...well, um, I guess you are entitled to your opinion, this is a message board an all...but you do realize that every mock draft I have seen, that are done by guys that have access to workouts, scouts, GMs, players, and agents, have McNeal going well ahead of Matthews
Quote from: reinko on June 16, 2009, 07:06:24 AM
ok...well, um, I guess you are entitled to your opinion, this is a message board an all...but you do realize that every mock draft I have seen, that are done by guys that have access to workouts, scouts, GMs, players, and agents, have McNeal going well ahead of Matthews
Every mock draft you have read has Jerel McNeal going well ahead of Wesley Matthews?
Every one?
Well ahead?
Check a little deeper. There are at least two NBA draft predictions -- read each this morning -- that do not have McNeal being drafted.
Quote from: MU Avenue on June 16, 2009, 07:37:44 AM
Every mock draft you have read has Jerel McNeal going well ahead of Wesley Matthews?
Every one?
Well ahead?
Check a little deeper. There are at least two NBA draft predictions -- read each this morning -- that do not have McNeal being drafted.
Links?
I do not know about Matthews being drafted ahead of McNeal, but I predict he will still be in the NBA when McNeal is done.
I paged through a handful of mock drafts from http://dcprosportsreport.com/mockdraftdatabase/nba.html and of the 3-4 that had a second round that I looked at, all of them had McNeal going ahead of Matthews. Oddly http://www.basslinespin.com/2009Draft.html has James going early in the second and Matthews going completely undrafted - though it claims to be a list of talent and not a mock draft.
That said, mock drafts don't really have any claim to reliability or even necessarily expertise, and Matthews certainly could be drafted ahead of McNeal for any number of reasons. However, most of what I've read has McNeal doing well in the tryouts and people seem to think he'll be picked early- to mid-second round, while most seem to think Matthews will go late in the second.
Edit: That mock draft is horrible. Daye at 5 and Jennings at 41. When someone like Chad Ford has Matthews ahead of McNeal, let us know but those mocks are pretty weak.
I agree Matthews could be a better player and does have better NBA body, but its pretty unlikely that he gets picked first.
There's a reason McNeal was at the predraft camp in Chicago and Matthews was not.
I personally like NBADraft's prediction
http://www.nbadraft.net/2009mock_draft
Quote from: marqptm on June 16, 2009, 01:22:31 PM
I personally like NBADraft's prediction
http://www.nbadraft.net/2009mock_draft
...but it would kinda suck for Jerel and Wes to battle each other for the same roster spot! :-\
Quote from: BrewCity on June 16, 2009, 01:41:58 PM
...but it would kinda suck for Jerel and Wes to battle each other for the same roster spot! :-\
Hey, thanks for crappin on the party.
Who cares?? I hope they both get in and succeed! Why is everyone always so polarized? Call it blind enthusiasm, but I would think that we'd all just be supportive and happy for these players, but no, guess everyone's a cynic. Or is it that some of you just don't like certain players anymore (or haven't for awhile)? I know I'm my own worst critic, however, I hope someday everyone looks back at this class and thinks of them fondly because they, besides being great players, are good people, and wonderful representatives of the university. I am already so elated by the fact that I was blessed to have watched them all four years. I guess there is still time for skeletons to come out of closets (i.e. Derrick Rose & Memphis), but I sincerely hope there aren't any. These guys have everything to gain, and I really do hope they can bring their ability and succeed at the next level. Nothing gives me more pride about the athletics program than seeing the players succeed after Marquette, especially in the NBA (okay, that and winning national titles, but for the sake of argument...). Maybe they're not the best, but I think select people here would be critical even of Jesus if He played NCAA basketball (non-Christians, insert Michael Jordan/you're other favorite NBA superstar or religious deity here). So bully for Wes if he is picked first, but I'll just be hoping to see all Three Amigos in NBA uniforms making an appearance at the BC again sometime soon.
I don't think this is a thread to compare players, but rather to see how the draft will shape out. A lot of us are very interested in that and we would love both to get drafted.
Quote from: MU Avenue on June 16, 2009, 07:37:44 AM
Every mock draft you have read has Jerel McNeal going well ahead of Wesley Matthews?
Every one?
Well ahead?
Check a little deeper. There are at least two NBA draft predictions -- read each this morning -- that do not have McNeal being drafted.
8 1/2 hours later and still no links to the mock drafts you read? You havin' a laugh?
I think every MU fan wants as many Marquette players in the league and everyone is praying for the draft. But am I the only one that thinks McNeal really belongs in the league. I really believe that he will eventually earn a spot in someone's rotation. The guy was considered one of the best players in the deepest conference (potientially ever). Not only that, but the guy is a hard worker. He seems to be constantly adding new wrinkles to his game. And he can certainly play defense at the next level.
Obviously the scouts don't agree because some do not think he will get drafted so what do I know. I just have seen alot of players come and go and McNeal seems to some of the tools to succeed in the NBA like heart, ability to finish, hard nose defense, and ability to hit the mid range jumper. I expect to see him play in the NBA.
Quote from: ErickJD08 on June 16, 2009, 04:46:07 PM
I think every MU fan wants as many Marquette players in the league and everyone is praying for the draft. But am I the only one that thinks McNeal really belongs in the league. I really believe that he will eventually earn a spot in someone's rotation. The guy was considered one of the best players in the deepest conference (potientially ever). Not only that, but the guy is a hard worker. He seems to be constantly adding new wrinkles to his game. And he can certainly play defense at the next level.
Obviously the scouts don't agree because some do not think he will get drafted so what do I know. I just have seen alot of players come and go and McNeal seems to some of the tools to succeed in the NBA like heart, ability to finish, hard nose defense, and ability to hit the mid range jumper. I expect to see him play in the NBA.
I see McNeal and Matthews playing in the NBA for at least a couple years to be a forgone conclusion. I'm hopeful that James will come to the NBA after a year or two in Europe getting his confidence (and his jumper) back to where it needs to be.
Eric,
I have been a McNeal apologist since his freshman year. You can't teach what he has - utter confidence. Obviously he has the skills to play in the Association and his ability to score and defend at an extremely high level will earn him a spot in someone's rotation within a few seasons.
I could sit here and list all his accomplishments, but true MU fans already know all of these. He was the most consistant and dependable player for MU over the last four years and his skills and attitude will make some GM look very intelligent in due time.
With this being said I hope Wes gets draft too. He really improved his game and deserves a shot. As for DJ, I think the theory that he plays a few years in Europe and learns how to shoot free throws before coming back for a shot at the NBA might prove to be an astute one.
Hey if you could give me the number of your dealer......because that has to be some really good stuff you are smoking if you are thinking WM will go ahead of JM in the draft.
Quote from: CAINMUTINY on June 16, 2009, 11:34:50 PM
Hey if you could give me the number of your dealer......because that has to be some really good stuff you are smoking if you are thinking WM will go ahead of JM in the draft.
I have believed for the past four basketball seasons that Wesley Matthews was the strongest player and one of the top athletes on the team.
I think he was held back and misused in almost incalculable ways under Coach Crean's system, if there even was a system.
Coach Williams saw this and made sure that Matthews, in his final collegiate season, was able to contribute in ways that he could have been contributing all along.
I think that Jerel McNeal is a terrific player who will require a lot of coaching and retraining in the NBA. I hope he gets there and thrives in the pros.
Matthews, meanwhile, is a skilled, smart player and athlete who will flourish in the NBA.
Quote from: MU Avenue on June 17, 2009, 05:40:42 AM
I have believed for the past four basketball seasons that Wesley Matthews was the strongest player and one of the top athletes on the team.
I think he was held back and misused in almost incalculable ways under Coach Crean's system, if there even was a system.
Coach Williams saw this and made sure that Matthews, in his final collegiate season, was able to contribute in ways that he could have been contributing all along.
I think that Jerel McNeal is a terrific player who will require a lot of coaching and retraining in the NBA. I hope he gets there and thrives in the pros.
Matthews, meanwhile, is a skilled, smart player and athlete who will flourish in the NBA.
None of what you just wrote has anything to do with who will be drafted first. It seems like you are referring to who will be a better player (eventually).
I think Matthews is skilled as well, and he still could have a higher ceiling than McNeal. (if you believe he was held back by Crean).
However, by almost all projections, McNeal is going to get drafted ahead of WM in the draft.
Quote from: MU Avenue on June 17, 2009, 05:40:42 AM
I have believed for the past four basketball seasons that Wesley Matthews was the strongest player and one of the top athletes on the team.
I think he was held back and misused in almost incalculable ways under Coach Crean's system, if there even was a system.
Coach Williams saw this and made sure that Matthews, in his final collegiate season, was able to contribute in ways that he could have been contributing all along.
I think that Jerel McNeal is a terrific player who will require a lot of coaching and retraining in the NBA. I hope he gets there and thrives in the pros.
Matthews, meanwhile, is a skilled, smart player and athlete who will flourish in the NBA.
That was pretty. But more then a day later still no links to the mock drafts you read. Help out us uneducated folk.
Quote from: The Golden Avalanche on June 17, 2009, 09:16:49 AM
That was pretty. But more then a day later still no links to the mock drafts you read. Help out us uneducated folk.
I saw one mock draft with Wes going #1, ahead of Blake Griffin.
http://www.matthewsgazette.com/mockdraft
The internet newspaper published by his 9 year old niece.
Matthews is a SF (3) and at his height and athleticism is a dime a dozen. If he can prove that he can play the 2; which is suspect, then he MIGHT (see chances the washington generals beating the Harlem Globetrotters) go before McNeal.
The point here is that while Matthews might become the better player, he just hasn't proven it yet and guys don't get drafted in the second round basked on purely speculative potential.
The idea of which one of the two will last longer in the NBA is ridiculously speculative at this point. Since neither have out-of-this-world NBA talent, it is going to come down to who works harder and who gets placed into the best situation and can thrive within that situation. If you look at the 1999 draft for intance, Manu Ginobili was the second to last player selected. Matthews is just a tad smaller than Manu, but he was put into a position with the Spurs where he could grow and had the work ethic to make it work.
Quote from: CAINMUTINY on June 17, 2009, 10:34:30 AM
Matthews is a SF (3) and at his height and athleticism is a dime a dozen. If he can prove that he can play the 2; which is suspect, then he MIGHT (see chances the washington generals beating the Harlem Globetrotters) go before McNeal.
The point here is that while Matthews might become the better player, he just hasn't proven it yet and guys don't get drafted in the second round basked on purely speculative potential.
Actually, that's exactly what they get drafted on. The second round is all about potential. That's where you draft a guy that was injured and you don't know if he'll recover, that's where you take a shot on a guy from Europe that might not want to come over here right away, that's where you look at a guy that left school too early and needs to spend some time in the D-league etc etc.
Players that have proven themselves are first rounders. Every 2nd rounder is picked because someone sees the potential for them to be greater than they currently are.
Quote from: ErickJD08 on June 16, 2009, 04:46:07 PM
I think every MU fan wants as many Marquette players in the league and everyone is praying for the draft. But am I the only one that thinks McNeal really belongs in the league. I really believe that he will eventually earn a spot in someone's rotation. The guy was considered one of the best players in the deepest conference (potientially ever). Not only that, but the guy is a hard worker. He seems to be constantly adding new wrinkles to his game. And he can certainly play defense at the next level.
Obviously the scouts don't agree because some do not think he will get drafted so what do I know. I just have seen alot of players come and go and McNeal seems to some of the tools to succeed in the NBA like heart, ability to finish, hard nose defense, and ability to hit the mid range jumper. I expect to see him play in the NBA.
Rugbydrummer likes this ::thumbs up::
I think posters are not knocking McNeal, but are saying Matthews is underrated. Matthews, if he makes the pros, will be a two and not a three. I expect both to get drafted in the second round and both will play in the rookie (?) league next year. Depending on injuries they might get some time on an NBA team, but they will not play anymore than Novak did as a rookie.
I had been watching Wes gain on Jerel in nbadraft.net, but I believe they still note this is not based on what the teams actually need with each pick, so that can really throw it off. For example, last week nbadraft.net had Jerel being taken with the No. 51 pick by San Antonio as a shooting guard, and Wes being taken with the No. 53 pick by San Antonio, also as a shooting guard. Obviously, that is not going to happen. I do completely disagree that Wes will be hurt because his body type is a dime a dozen in the NBA. Wes frame at such a strong 6-foot-5 makes him ideal to put up with the pounding of the 80 game schedule plus playoffs. If there are a lot of bodies similar to his in the NBA, that is because those are the guys with bodies to handle the rigors of the NBA season. As for Jerel, I hope he is awesome but as far as I'm concerned, he has already secured his legacy by joning Wade, Lee, Chones and Tatum by being picked as one of the top 10 players in the US by the AP All-American voters. Anything he does in the pros is icing on the cake, and if DJ can make it back that will be even more wonderful. If he needs a year in Europe, I hope he shocks the continent like he shocked the Big East his freshman year and rides that into the NBA.
While I know Baseline Spin is the only one with DJ going in the draft, I still hold out hope. There could easily be a GM out there who thinks he can fix DJs jumper, making him a steal with huge upside if secured in the 2nd round. If so, he obviously would not let anyone in the world know that is what he was thinking, and thus he may never pop up on draftnet or draftexpress.