In light of our most recent acquisition (Mbao) and loss (McMorrow), how does everyone on here see the line-up panning out next season? Obviously it's way to early to tell and this is all speculation, but Warrior basketball is like crack, and I just need my early-May fix...
Who's your starting five? Who are key contributors off the bench?
The general consensus (based on little more than word of mouth) seemed to be that McMorrow had been positioning himself nicely to start at center...what does his departure do to Buzz's rotation in the post? Because based on the little bit we saw last year, I think it's clear that O'Tule isn't ready to be a full-time contributor, but in all likelihood he's more polished and B-East ready than Mbao.
Interested in seeing everyone's thoughts...
starters:
acker 20 min
buycks 20 min
maymon 20 min
hayward 32 min
otule 20 min
super sub:
butler 30 min
main rotation:
cadougan 20 min
e williams 10 min
DJO 20 min
Mbao 8 min
relatively buried:
cubillan
roseboro
fulce
tough cause this is a deep team, talent wise. will buzz go with experience, or throw the kids in the fire? based on what we heard of Fulce coming into last year, i'd like to hope he'd play more...but I have a suspicion he will never be the same player again.
C Otule 15 Mbao 12 Butler 5, Williams 5, Roseboro 3
PF Hayward 30, Butler 5, Williams 5
SF Maymon 22 , Butler 12, Williams 5 Fulce 1
2G DJO 25, Buycks 14, Culliban 1
PG Buycks 11 , Cadougan 24, Aker 5
Hayward 30 minutes
DJO 25
Buycks 25
Cadougan 24 ( time will drop significantly if he cannot handle the ball-freshmen ball handlers scare me)
Maymon 22
Butler 22
Otule 15
Williams 15
Mbao 12 ( if he can put on 20+ pounds he will start and his time will sky rocket)
Aker 5
Roseboro 3
Culliban 1
Fulce 1 (if his knee is healthy his time will go up)
I don't know who will start outside of Hayward, but here are my thoughts on the minutes breakdown by the start of conference season:
Hayward - 35
Maymon - 26
Cadougan - 26
Williams - 22
DJO - 22
Buycks - 22
Butler - 17
Mbao - 15
Otule - 5
Acker - 5
Fulce - 5
I think Buzz will run a lot of 3 forward/2 guard sets, because that will be his five best players. If Mbao can be as good as Ouse was his sophomore year, I think he'll start. Cadougan will play strictly point, and Buycks will slide in at the 1 when he's on the bench and DJO will play the 2 in that instance. There will be games where Fulce & Otule don't get off the bench, giving their minutes to Williams, Buycks, Butler, & DJO.
MU will be young, but it will be fun to watch their progression next season. I hope Lazar can go out with a bang.
Acker will not start. If he does, we are hurting.
He is not a Big east PG. He cannot penetrate, he cannot defend, and he cannot shoot.
Quote from: willie warrior on May 08, 2009, 12:02:26 PM
Acker will not start. If he does, we are hurting.
He is not a Big east PG. He cannot penetrate, he cannot defend, and he cannot shoot.
I agree that he's not a BEast PG, but he proved at the end of last year that he can run the offense while making very few mistakes. If Cadougan takes longer than expected to get up to speed (or if he comes in overweight) I wouldn't be surprised if Acker got the nod.
I find it interesting that Fulce is so easily cast aside by everyone, despite word that he was well ahead of Butler up until his injury.
It sounds like the knee injury may be behind him. If he is healthy, I expect him to be much more intergral than the "mop-up" duty most are putting him in at. He may not surpass Butler, but his length and experience will have him see the floor.
Quote from: Skatastrophy on May 08, 2009, 12:31:17 PM
I agree that he's not a BEast PG, but he proved at the end of last year that he can run the offense while making very few mistakes. If Cadougan takes longer than expected to get up to speed (or if he comes in overweight) I wouldn't be surprised if Acker got the nod.
With a young team, it's EXTREMELY important that we have a point guard running the show who isn't turnover prone...While I think Junior probably gets the nod at some point in the season, I wouldn't be at all surprised if Mo takes the reigns into the start of the BEast schedule.
I'll be intrigued by how Buzz manages this team because last year he rode 5 veterans and 1 reserve most of the season and failed to develop his bench players...and if I'm remembering correctly, that was the knock on him his one year at NO, that he rode his top players and didn't incorporate his bench all that much...
This year he'll have so much talent at his disposal, albeit raw talent, I really hope he does everything he can to spread the minutes out...
7 newcomers. Of the returnees, two missed a lot of time due to injuries. Playing time next year is a complete crapshoot. But lots of potential. I can't wait.
I'm thinking Fulce and Acker will play more than most people have posted. I am not sure if Acker will start (I don't think he will) but he will get plenty of minutes off the bench. He can shoot.
And I totally agree that our lineup will be a 3 F, 2 G look a lot of times. Although we have WAY more flexibility to match up or down than we have had in a long time.
C Maymon 30, Hayward 5, Otule 5
PF Hayward 25, Williams 10, Butler 5
SF Williams 15, Butler 15, Fulce 10
SG Buycks 20, DJO 15, Butler 5
PG Cadougan 25, Buycks 10, Acker 5
Minutes every few games: Mbao, Roseboro, Cubillan
Minutes played breakdown:
30 Hayward
30 Maymon
30 Buycks
25 Cadougan
25 Butler
25 Williams
15 DJO
10 Fulce
5 Acker
5 Otule
So with 2 7 footers, DomJames, we are still starting the 6'6" Maymon at the 5???
I don't wanna predict minutes, but I will predict a lineup.
Mbao/Otule/Roseboro
Maymon/Hayward/Williams
Hayward/Butler/Williams/Fulce
Buycks/DJO/Cuillan
Junior/Acker/DJO
Otule couldn't get any minutes at center this past season......that is bad. Who was in front of him? Dwight frickin Burke and then Hayward.......even Butler played ahead of him at center. That doesn't really leave an impression of Buzz having much confidence in him. Mbao probably won't be able to play much next season as he needs to develop his body. He is very raw and very weak right now. When you're that skinny, just boxing out on a freethrow is difficult (Richard Shaw freshman year.)
Regardless, Maymon at the 5 should be able to play decent defense while producing points and rebounds at a position that has been a wasteland for years.
Quote from: DomJamesToTheBasket on May 08, 2009, 06:18:08 PM
Otule couldn't get any minutes at center this past season......that is bad. Who was in front of him? Dwight frickin Burke and then Hayward.......even Butler played ahead of him at center. That doesn't really leave an impression of Buzz having much confidence in him. Mbao probably won't be able to play much next season as he needs to develop his body. He is very raw and very weak right now. When you're that skinny, just boxing out on a freethrow is difficult (Richard Shaw freshman year.)
Regardless, Maymon at the 5 should be able to play decent defense while producing points and rebounds at a position that has been a wasteland for years.
WOW... Give the kid a break. He was a project coming into MU and he was a freshmen AND he was hurt during the non conference schedule. I think he has a chance.
Starting 5
Junior 22 (our best point guard)
DJO 28 (our best newcomer)
Buycks 28 (our best defensive guard)
Hayward 32 (our best player)
Otule 18 (Has turned the corner and will be solid)
Bench
Butler 18 (first player off the bench)
Maymon 18 (Hard to keep him out of the starting lineup but I think DJO and Buycks are that good)
Acker 12 (too much experience not to get this many minutes)
Williams 8 (highest ceiling of all newcomers, could be a star his soph year)
Fulce 7 (should get more minutes but not enough minutes to go around)
Mbao 5 (needs a lot of weight and strength to make any real contribution this year)
Cube 5 (needs to get his shot back or he won't get any time)
We are going to have a short team again this year with lots of 3 guard lineups on the court again this year but at least Buzz will have way more flexibility this year with his matchups. I really can't help but think we will try to play some type of full court pressure trapping defense more often than not with a bigger and longer Fulce/Williams and DJO playing the top of the 1-2-2 trap.
Quote from: DomJamesToTheBasket on May 08, 2009, 06:18:08 PM
Otule couldn't get any minutes at center this past season......that is bad. Who was in front of him? Dwight frickin Burke and then Hayward.......even Butler played ahead of him at center. That doesn't really leave an impression of Buzz having much confidence in him. Mbao probably won't be able to play much next season as he needs to develop his body. He is very raw and very weak right now. When you're that skinny, just boxing out on a freethrow is difficult (Richard Shaw freshman year.)
Regardless, Maymon at the 5 should be able to play decent defense while producing points and rebounds at a position that has been a wasteland for years.
Maymon is too small to be a 5. That would be a complete waste of his talent.
Quote from: The Wizard of West Salem on May 08, 2009, 08:04:13 PM
Maymon is too small to be a 5. That would be a complete waste of his talent.
He wouldn't have to play offense like a true center. Have him play offense like an inside/out PF.
I think Otule will surprise us in a positive way. He missed 41 practices last year I think Buzz said. And half the season. With a good summer, great full practices - I think he will surprise.
I'll say that a heavy majority (60%+) of games will have at least 10 guys get quality minutes.
I'll say that we see at least 4 different starting lineups.
I really think Mbao will compete for a starting role with Otule. For one he's taller, and I'm sure he can run the floor better.
Sure, Otule missed a bunch of practices and experience, but he needs major work. He will be completely lost on defense, and his coordination and hands need work on offense. I just feel the fact that Mbao is more than likely more athletic and better defensively, that he will get the starting role. Otule could contribute off the bench, and I hope he makes a big turnaround.
Buzz must have saw something in Rosboro to offer him. If he has Diener-like toughness he just might earn some minutes as well.
Sometimes I wonder if people are even paying attention. Buzz showed this year that he rides who he trusts, that means Hayward is going to play a ton...36 minutes. Probably Butler too.
Also Maymon has been promised a starting spot - He's going to start out the season starting, that much we know.
We also learned Buzz plays the 5 best guys. Think about down the stretch, how many games did Burke play 17 minutes and Butler played much more? Otoule is not getting anywhere near 20 minutes. I doubt Mbao does either. Everyone always looks at best case scenarios when projecting player development over the summer. The fact is come November you're going to see 3 forwards...Maymon, Butler & Lazar starting and taking turns guarding the center spot. Hopefully Otoule and Mbao work their way in but Buzz strikes me as a guy who wants to win now.
Everyone wants to talk about Lazar playing his "natural" position. The best thing for Lazar's pro development is to play meaningful basketball and win. If he's a 2/3 in the pros, that's irrelevant now. If he needs to play the 5 for MU to win games, that's what he should do. Playing meaningful basketball will do more for his development than playing his true NBA position.
Quote from: muwarrior69 on May 09, 2009, 07:59:10 AM
Buzz must have saw something in Rosboro to offer him. If he has Diener-like toughness he just might earn some minutes as well.
Roseboro...toughness...Diener? Are you kidding me? Why b/c they're both white? Diener played and excelled not just b/c of his toughness but b/c he was usually the best PG on the floor. People seem to (or like to) forget he was by a few services a top 40 recruit, he won National Championships at the AAU level and was the leader, if not best player, of his teams. Travis Diener is in the NBA today b/c he's a damn good PG not because of his toughness etc. Toughness only takes you so far you need amazing, God-given talent. To compare a Top 300 sleeper recruit to Diener is down right laughable.
Here's my prediction in terms of most minutes played:
Hayward
Cadougan
Maymon
Buycks
DJO
Williams
Butler
Aker
Mbao
Otule
Fulce
Cubillan
Roseboro
This is gonna be fun...
Quote from: The Lens on May 09, 2009, 11:27:35 AMDiener played and excelled not just b/c of his toughness but b/c he was usually the best PG on the floor. People seem to (or like to) forget he was by a few services a top 40 recruit, he won National Championships at the AAU level and was the leader, if not best player, of his teams. Travis Diener is in the NBA today b/c he's a damn good PG not because of his toughness etc.
This is true. I remember leading into his SO year, the previews generally read "How will MU deal with the loss of Cordell Henry?" and my thought was always "But the team looked smoother when Diener was out there!"
Quote from: The Lens on May 09, 2009, 11:27:35 AM
Sometimes I wonder if people are even paying attention. Buzz showed this year that he rides who he trusts, that means Hayward is going to play a ton...36 minutes. Probably Butler too.
Also Maymon has been promised a starting spot - He's going to start out the season starting, that much we know.
We also learned Buzz plays the 5 best guys. Think about down the stretch, how many games did Burke play 17 minutes and Butler played much more? Otoule is not getting anywhere near 20 minutes. I doubt Mbao does either. Everyone always looks at best case scenarios when projecting player development over the summer. The fact is come November you're going to see 3 forwards...Maymon, Butler & Lazar starting and taking turns guarding the center spot. Hopefully Otoule and Mbao work their way in but Buzz strikes me as a guy who wants to win now.
Everyone wants to talk about Lazar playing his "natural" position. The best thing for Lazar's pro development is to play meaningful basketball and win. If he's a 2/3 in the pros, that's irrelevant now. If he needs to play the 5 for MU to win games, that's what he should do. Playing meaningful basketball will do more for his development than playing his true NBA position.
This doesn't make much sense. So if Hayward's natural position is a 2/3, you would want him to play a different one??? Wouldn't he be most effective in his natural position thus contributing to the team as much as he can? We are going to depend on Hayward alot next season so why put him out of position and play a 5 where he can pick up cheap fouls.
I don't think you can read much into Buzz's strategy from last season. The heavy minutes from the trio is because we really didn't have much of an option. Our talent was concentrated in 4 players and the drop off from that was significant. Next season, of course Hayward will average the most minutes on the team but I think it will be between 30 and 33. I honestly see Buzz flipping lineups around and figuring out what is working that day.
I think it players have a healthy summer and fall, we will see quite a bit from Mbao and Otule.
Where is all this hate on Otule coming from? A proclaimed project, freshmen who missed a ton of time. Did anyone expect much more from him last season?
Hayward is probably our interior defender & rebounder, hence his value of playing there for us.
No one hates Otoule, but some just have reasonable expectations.
Quote from: The Lens on May 10, 2009, 12:02:43 PM
Hayward is probably our interior defender & rebounder, hence his value of playing there for us.
No one hates Otoule, but some just have reasonable expectations.
That's fine... If we play zone, I would rather have one of our giants guard the paint. Hayward can still mix it up in the paint.
Hayward is an undersized 4...his natural position is not at the 2/3.
Its pretty evident that he is not quick enough to create as a 2/3 or defend as a 2/3.
Quote from: GOMU1104 on May 11, 2009, 09:41:56 AM
Its pretty evident that he is not quick enough to create as a 2/3 or defend as a 2/3.
I'm not sure that I've ever seen him in a role where he was asked to create off the bounce.
Quote from: Skatastrophy on May 11, 2009, 11:17:14 AM
I'm not sure that I've ever seen him in a role where he was asked to create off the bounce.
I second that...
I'm very excited about this team. In some ways it'll be much different. We're moving from a team that never turned it over and had no trouble scoring buckets to one that will begin the year with suspect handles and questions about where non-Hayward offense will come from.
Think Buzz will help us all have fun by pushing the team to continue "taking the first best shot" and playing pressure D. It'll be interesting how our greater length at the 2/3 will help because I suspect, in terms of minutes on the court, we'll still be short at the 4/5 as we get the young guys some minutes but largely have to play those positions by committee.
Apart from Lazar I'm still not sure we've got a pure shooter on the squad. If one emerges, that could help a lot.
November Line-up
1) Mo /Cadougan - On day one if Mo is least likely to turn the ball over, he will start at first. Cadougan is likely to take the helm over the course of the season. That'll happen faster if Junior's ball handling is more notable than his love handles and D. If he's a step slow or unsure breaking the press, Mo will get time at first, potentially replaced by DJO or Buycks.
2) DJO/Buycks - We need to get buckets and penetration from our shooting guard. Seems like one of these guys will emerge but I for one have no idea who's better right now. Anyone know if either of these guys can shoot?
3) Maymon/Williams/Butler - I think our "forwards" are Maymon and Lazar. Who's 3 and who's 4 is tough to say. EIther guy will need to deliver buckets on the wing and in the post, depending on the match-up.
Defense and transition baskets are the likely contribution from EWill & Butler. Hopefully EWill's 500 shots a day will make him more of an offensive threat. Butler, like Hayward, was recruited as a scoring/shooting guard. It'll be interesting to see if he expands his skill set to broaden his contribution.
What if we had 3 versatile guys who could take you to the rack or hit a 15 footer?
4) Hayward/Maymon/Fulce - Zar is our best player. Buzz will try to move Zar all over the floor to take advantage of his shooting and keep teams from knowing how to key on him. He'll move from the 3 pt line to the high post. Maymon works high post, the wing, short corner. Butler plays baseline, short corner, weak side post.
5) by Committee - Otule/Fulce/Hayward/Mbao
I'll loosely agree... except that in the 5 you will see Otule, Mbao and Roseboro.
Fulce is way too undersized to play the 5 and Hayward can be used elsewhere since we have the big bodies now.
NYCWarrior, you say that in some ways this team will be different is the biggest understatement of the century. We lost three MU greats. Three players would play great D, rebound well, and play well together. Those traits will be hard to replace but something that will be impossible to replace is the ability to control games and close games. As far as PT goes (which I just remembered is the topic of this thread), I would like Junior, Maymon, and one of the C's starting to prepare for the future. Obviously, if those players are TERRIBLE, then bench them but I think Junior and Maymon are the future and the C's will be very serviceable. TO speculate because its fun...
Junior, Hayward, Butler and Maymon will start. I think EVERYONE will compete for the last spot and I believe one of them will emerge as the obvious winner.