nor is he from Chicago. But, big men can be recruited at Marquette. So, everyone happy?
yes
Quote from: 4everwarriors on April 26, 2009, 09:53:33 PM
nor is he from Chicago. But, big men can be recruited at Marquette. So, everyone happy?
I just wish he wasn't from Stoneridge....it's in the town next to where I grew up. They've had an interesting reputation the last decade or so....accused of being a diploma mill by some. At one point they were delisted by the NCAA Clearinghouse a few years ago. I believe they got that resolved (though many people out here were shocked that Stoneridge wasn't one of the 15 schools officially banned by the NCAA). If I remember correctly they were audited and cleared months after being delisted. Articles below from the last few years.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/06/02/AR2006060201579.html
http://www.simivalleyacorn.com/news/2007/0112/Front_Page/004.html
It is what it is. An interesting basketball program run by a very interesting persona in Mohoaney.
First the JUCOs and now a diploma factory. Wonder what the graduation rate will look like in 3 or 4 years?
Quote from: PJDunn on April 26, 2009, 11:40:27 PM
First the JUCOs and now a diploma factory. Wonder what the graduation rate will look like in 3 or 4 years?
I just don't get why everyone is automatically assuming with these kids because they went to a JUCO or somewhere like Stoneridge that they're dunces that won't graduate (although I don't know enough about the current state of Stoneridge to know if it's really changed). I'd be a lot more worried about kids with character issues on their resumes coming in not graduating than these guys.
Consider that Lazar went to one of these alleged diploma mills, since I believe that ND Prep is no longer around. He's one of the most well spoken guys we've had come thru this program in a long time, and doing pretty well in the classroom from what I understand.
Fulce and Butler were full D1 qualifiers coming out of HS but elected to go the JUCO route for other reasons. DJO ended up at a JUCO because of NCAA clearninghouse issues. Buycks and Clark had to go to a JUCO to 2 years to fix up their transcripts due to the ceaspool that is known as the Milwaukee Public Schools. From all indications otherwise, these are guys who are indeed working in the classroom, but ended up at JUCO to either improve upon their potential offers or mitigating academic circumstances.
If these guys are capable of doing the academic work in the classroom, I don't have a problem with having them at Marquette. Buzz is also fortunate to have one of the BEST academic support staffs in the country with Adrianne Trice running the show (who Crean wanted BADLY at IU with him), so these guys will have some incredible resources available to guide them thru the academic side. But I have no doubt at the same time that if they can't hack the books here, they're out the door, no questions asked.
ND Prep is still around. Jonnie Lacy spent this season there.
Stoneridge was one of the schools featured in ESPN's Outside the Lines a several years ago dealing with diploma mills. As was the Florida school that was discussed in Chico's second link where the coach from Senagal came from.
Quote from: Tom Crean's Tanning Bed on April 27, 2009, 12:17:10 AM
Buzz is also fortunate to have one of the BEST academic support staffs in the country with Adrianne Trice running the show (who Crean wanted BADLY at IU with him), so these guys will have some incredible resources available to guide them thru the academic side.
MU is on these guys like white on rice. An incredible academic staff.
Mbao speaks three languages, including English. Stoneridge may have a checkered past, but Mbao is anything but a dumb kid from a "diploma mill."
Pretty sure I say him on campus around 10:15 ish in front of Gesu. Wearing an Adidas sweatshirt and a smile on his face.
I will gladly take a 90% graduation rate if it means we go back to the Final Four again soon.
Quote from: Wareagle on April 27, 2009, 10:53:10 AM
Pretty sure I say him on campus around 10:15 ish in front of Gesu. Wearing an Adidas sweatshirt and a smile on his face.
Go throw a ball at him and see how good his hands/reflexes are.
Quote from: Wareagle on April 27, 2009, 10:53:10 AM
Pretty sure I say him on campus around 10:15 ish in front of Gesu. Wearing an Adidas sweatshirt and a smile on his face.
What would make you more certain?
Quote from: YoungMUFan4 on April 27, 2009, 12:30:49 PM
7'2 guy on campus? ;)
Nice to see we're on the same wavelength. What made me more sure was the fact I came up to his tricep.
Quote from: GregShimonFor2 on April 27, 2009, 10:43:38 AM
Mbao speaks three languages, including English. Stoneridge may have a checkered past, but Mbao is anything but a dumb kid from a "diploma mill."
Don't think anyone here called the kid dumb or incapable of handling a curriculum at Marquette. But yes, Stoneridge has been in the spotlight as have other schools. Fairly or unfairly, they've been in the spotlight on HBO, the Washington Post, ESPN as well as locally here in So. Cal.
I think we all need to be honest here. I remember not to far in the distant past when Cincinnati, Louisville, Memphis were taking kids from these types of programs, it didn't sit well with many people here.
The kids get caught up in this stuff unfairly which is the unfortunate part. They may be more than capable academically but for whatever reason decided to attend one of these schools. Then when folks get under the hood and look at these schools, more than a few curious alarm bells start going off. 35 kids in the entire school, all of them in the basketball program as an example (I'm using this as an illustration only). Those types of things raise people's eyebrows and end up on HBO as a result. Fairly or unfairly.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on April 27, 2009, 01:02:57 PM
Don't think anyone here called the kid dumb or incapable of handling a curriculum at Marquette. But yes, Stoneridge has been in the spotlight as have other schools. Fairly or unfairly, they've been in the spotlight on HBO, the Washington Post, ESPN as well as locally here in So. Cal.
I think we all need to be honest here. I remember not to far in the distant past when Cincinnati, Louisville, Memphis were taking kids from these types of programs, it didn't sit well with many people here.
I think if UC and Memphis were graduating their players, we wouldn't care. Same here.
In the grand scheme of things does anyone really care about graduation rates? I don't mean to be too cynical but there are plenty of D1 programs that hardly graduate anyone and no one makes a big deal about it. UConn graduates about 33% of its guys, Louisville just 42% and there are some extreme cases like Maryland with just 10% and Arizona with 20%.
Last year we were one of only 7 teams in the tourney with a 100% rate. I think Buzz has some room to take a few "chances".
The question remains...can we graduate these kids? This is not an attack on any of the student athletes that Buzz has recruited, but rather a reflection that taken as a whole, the student athlete population that chooses the diploma mill or juco route tend to be academically suspect.
Rather than fly our 100 percent graduation rate from the highest flagpole, maybe some folks should start questioning how it's being accomplished.
This may have been discussed before and if so my apologies....
How are we at 100%, as I thought the years included in the study included the time that Wade was at MU?
Quote from: PuertoRicanNightmare on April 27, 2009, 01:51:22 PM
Rather than fly our 100 percent graduation rate from the highest flagpole, maybe some folks should start questioning how it's being accomplished.
+1
Additionally, I can tell you that it definitely helps to be a private school.
Quote from: PuertoRicanNightmare on April 27, 2009, 01:51:22 PM
Rather than fly our 100 percent graduation rate from the highest flagpole, maybe some folks should start questioning how it's being accomplished.
Ok PRN, I'll bite- HOW OH HOW HAS IT BEEN ACCOMPLISHED?
I can't wait to see this vague answer, insinuating some sort of Creanian conspiracy theory.
Quote from: PJDunn on April 27, 2009, 01:46:16 PM
...the student athlete population that chooses the diploma mill or juco route tend to be academically suspect.
It seems that a lot of these kids choose the "diploma mill" not for their academics, but rather for the exposure they will get and their increased chances of getting noticed by a top 100 university and improving their basketball skills. It's not necessarily a matter of their intelligence being suspect I'd guess for 99% of the kids that go to those schools.
Who do they play?
What league? I live near there and saw nothing about this guy not have I heard of the school. was pretty involved in youth sports for years
Quote from: MUfan12 on April 27, 2009, 02:04:31 PM
Ok PRN, I'll bite- HOW OH HOW HAS IT BEEN ACCOMPLISHED?
I can't wait to see this vague answer, insinuating some sort of Creanian conspiracy theory.
I'm more interested in hearing your theory as to how it's being accomplished. Do me a favor...type out what you think the answer is, read it back to yourself and then enjoy a good long laugh.
Chicos is right. Our recruiting may have moved into a different neighborhood. Unfortunately, the only house available on the block is made of glass. You might enjoy the view, but don't forget our neighbors can see right inside.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on April 27, 2009, 01:02:57 PM
Don't think anyone here called the kid dumb or incapable of handling a curriculum at Marquette. But yes, Stoneridge has been in the spotlight as have other schools. Fairly or unfairly, they've been in the spotlight on HBO, the Washington Post, ESPN as well as locally here in So. Cal.
I think we all need to be honest here. I remember not to far in the distant past when Cincinnati, Louisville, Memphis were taking kids from these types of programs, it didn't sit well with many people here.
The kids get caught up in this stuff unfairly which is the unfortunate part. They may be more than capable academically but for whatever reason decided to attend one of these schools. Then when folks get under the hood and look at these schools, more than a few curious alarm bells start going off. 35 kids in the entire school, all of them in the basketball program as an example (I'm using this as an illustration only). Those types of things raise people's eyebrows and end up on HBO as a result. Fairly or unfairly.
Seems like you are more concerned with people's percections than with reality. If this 19 year old young man can speak 4 languages fluently I'm not too concerned with his ability in the classroom. If I ever was critical of any Memphis, Louisville or Cincinnati player with these kind of credentials (which I sincerely doubt), I hereby publicly apologize. If people want to "raise their eyebrows" without learning the facts I couldn't care less.
Quote from: PuertoRicanNightmare on April 27, 2009, 02:20:25 PM
I'm more interested in hearing your theory as to how it's being accomplished. Do me a favor...type out what you think the answer is, read it back to yourself and then enjoy a good long laugh.
Nice dodge.
Quote from: PuertoRicanNightmare on April 27, 2009, 02:20:25 PM
I'm more interested in hearing your theory as to how it's being accomplished. Do me a favor...type out what you think the answer is, read it back to yourself and then enjoy a good long laugh.
Chicos is right. Our recruiting may have moved into a different neighborhood. Unfortunately, the only house available on the block is made of glass. You might enjoy the view, but don't forget our neighbors can see right inside.
You are a joke
The academic support for the basketball players at Marquette is outstanding, thanks in large part to Adrienne Trice and her staff.
The kids spend more hours on a daily basis in study hall/tutoring sessions than many of the non-student athletes on campus. If they fail to hand in a paper on time of if they fail to attend a class, the MU coaching staff knows about it and addresses it.
PRN and Chicos can do all the spinning they want to paint a bleak picture, but at the end of the day that's all it is ... spin.
Quote from: PuertoRicanNightmare on April 27, 2009, 02:20:25 PM
I'm more interested in hearing your theory as to how it's being accomplished. Do me a favor...type out what you think the answer is, read it back to yourself and then enjoy a good long laugh.
We asked YOU for the answer. So why don't you stop dodging and answer the damn question.
If there's anyone that should be laughing right now, it should be us at your poor pathetic soul.
Quote from: AWegrzyn17 on April 27, 2009, 01:44:30 PM
In the grand scheme of things does anyone really care about graduation rates? I don't mean to be too cynical but there are plenty of D1 programs that hardly graduate anyone and no one makes a big deal about it. UConn graduates about 33% of its guys, Louisville just 42% and there are some extreme cases like Maryland with just 10% and Arizona with 20%.
Last year we were one of only 7 teams in the tourney with a 100% rate. I think Buzz has some room to take a few "chances".
Yes, many people care in the grand scheme of things. It reflects on the university greatly. There is a reason why Duke graduates most of its players....because the university demands it as do the alums, etc. As they should.
Quote from: The Wizard of West Salem on April 27, 2009, 01:37:49 PM
I think if UC and Memphis were graduating their players, we wouldn't care. Same here.
Which begs the question which came first...the chicken or the egg. In other words, has MU been graduating players at a high level because they haven't gone down this path? Has Memphis, UC, Louisville not graduated players because they have?
I don't know, I'm just asking.
Quote from: Hards_Alumni on April 27, 2009, 02:01:10 PM
+1
Additionally, I can tell you that it definitely helps to be a private school.
It helps even more to be a public school with Phys Ed classes, majors in remedial studies, CPR, etc. MU has a very limited number of sluff courses and majors compared to a large public school that can hide kids forever in classes anyone could pass.
Quote from: GregShimonFor2 on April 27, 2009, 02:57:44 PM
The academic support for the basketball players at Marquette is outstanding, thanks in large part to Adrienne Trice and her staff.
The kids spend more hours on a daily basis in study hall/tutoring sessions than many of the non-student athletes on campus. If they fail to hand in a paper on time of if they fail to attend a class, the MU coaching staff knows about it and addresses it.
PRN and Chicos can do all the spinning they want to paint a bleak picture, but at the end of the day that's all it is ... spin.
Sigh....please show me where I said this kid couldn't cut it, isn't smart, etc. Please, I'd like to know where. I was talking about Stoneridge, not the kid. I'll await your answer where I said the kid couldn't cut it or somehow didn't belong at MU. Look long and hard because it isn't there. >:(
I happen to be an incredible advocate of what MU has done to help student athletes achieve their academic goals, whether that's basketball players or golfers. Tom Ford's crew did an outstanding job when I was there. It appears the same continues to this day. The help is there, it's mandatory, and the student athletes take advantage of that assistance. A great program that should be applauded.
All I said, please RE-READ, is that I wish the kid didn't come from Stoneridge. That doesn't mean the kid can't make it, doesn't mean the kid isn't intelligent, doesn't mean the kid is dirty. Nor did anyone say or imply that. The results will be the results in the next few years, nothing is going to change that. I just wish the kid wasn't coming from there because (as I also said) it unfairly puts a stigma on them, fairly or unfairly....it does because of the spotlight that has been on Stoneridge.
Quote from: PuertoRicanNightmare on April 27, 2009, 02:20:25 PM
I'm more interested in hearing your theory as to how it's being accomplished. Do me a favor...type out what you think the answer is, read it back to yourself and then enjoy a good long laugh.
Chicos is right. Our recruiting may have moved into a different neighborhood. Unfortunately, the only house available on the block is made of glass. You might enjoy the view, but don't forget our neighbors can see right inside.
Nice non-answer. An honest assessment would be this. Athletes are given every opportunity- first priority in scheduling, academic advising, their own tutors and support staff. Combine this with majors that for the most part are not as rigorous, as well as the "History of Jazz" classes that are known to be less difficult. They are forced to go to class and attend study hall, and a coach checks in on them every day.
Look, every program does this. And personally, I don't see anything wrong with it. Why do you think so many Duke players take sociology as a major? MU's version of that is comm studies.
If you're trying to imply some sort of cheating, or other fishy business please elaborate. Or don't, and continue to look like an ass. It's fine with me either way.
Whatever Chicos. I'm done dealing with your stupid negativity and "I know all" mentality. Drop some names on some other people from now on.
Quote from: MUfan12 on April 27, 2009, 03:34:11 PM
Nice non-answer. An honest assessment would be this. Athletes are given every opportunity- first priority in scheduling, academic advising, their own tutors and support staff. Combine this with majors that for the most part are not as rigorous, as well as the "History of Jazz" classes that are known to be less difficult. They are forced to go to class and attend study hall, and a coach checks in on them every day.
Look, every program does this. And personally, I don't see anything wrong with it. Why do you think so many Duke players take sociology as a major? MU's version of that is comm studies.
If you're trying to imply some sort of cheating, or other fishy business please elaborate. Or don't, and continue to look like an ass. It's fine with me either way.
+1
Also, not every single MU player is a CMST major. Dom majors in PR. Wes is an Advertising major. Lazar majors in Social Welfare and Justice in the College of Arts & Sciences, same as Barro did.
Yes, it is true that a lot of the players are funneled into some less rigorous classes like the History of Jazz. But guess what? 98% of the students taking that class aren't basketball players either. They just need a fine arts credit or another 3 credits on their transcript so they can graduate.
And guess what, some of them like to be challenged in the classroom. Chris Grimm was an education major. Steve Novak, while a comm studies major, took classes like Business Ethics (which is NOT an easy subject) with me.
PRN, you may want to look at what Marquette requires now in terms of the Core of Common Studies and what classes the CMST majors actually take. They're 're not being given a degree.
But like MUFan12, I'm not expecting you to go out of your way either to be honest.
Quote from: AWegrzyn17 on April 27, 2009, 01:44:30 PM
In the grand scheme of things does anyone really care about graduation rates? I don't mean to be too cynical but there are plenty of D1 programs that hardly graduate anyone and no one makes a big deal about it. UConn graduates about 33% of its guys, Louisville just 42% and there are some extreme cases like Maryland with just 10% and Arizona with 20%.
Last year we were one of only 7 teams in the tourney with a 100% rate. I think Buzz has some room to take a few "chances".
I sure as heck do. I may be in the minority here, but the integrity of the University matters to me as much, if not more, than the won loss record. I think the success we have had on the court the last 6 years, married with the success off the court, makes us look good and me feel proud of MU.
There will be some that will want to poke holes in this, that is fine. But you can win and do things correctly and that is what I expect out of Marquette.
Quote from: PuertoRicanNightmare on April 27, 2009, 02:20:25 PM
I'm more interested in hearing your theory as to how it's being accomplished. Do me a favor...type out what you think the answer is, read it back to yourself and then enjoy a good long laugh.
Chicos is right. Our recruiting may have moved into a different neighborhood. Unfortunately, the only house available on the block is made of glass. You might enjoy the view, but don't forget our neighbors can see right inside.
Grow a set PRN. These vague accusations are just drivel. Specifics or shut your piehole.
Quote from: GregShimonFor2 on April 27, 2009, 03:50:14 PM
Whatever Chicos. I'm done dealing with your stupid negativity and "I know all" mentality. Drop some names on some other people from now on.
So you come on and accuse someone of saying something they didn't. Then when asked to present the evidence to backup your accusation, you say "whatever"?
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on April 27, 2009, 01:02:57 PM
Don't think anyone here called the kid dumb or incapable of handling a curriculum at Marquette. But yes, Stoneridge has been in the spotlight as have other schools. Fairly or unfairly, they've been in the spotlight on HBO, the Washington Post, ESPN as well as locally here in So. Cal.
I think we all need to be honest here. I remember not to far in the distant past when Cincinnati, Louisville, Memphis were taking kids from these types of programs, it didn't sit well with many people here.
The kids get caught up in this stuff unfairly which is the unfortunate part. They may be more than capable academically but for whatever reason decided to attend one of these schools. Then when folks get under the hood and look at these schools, more than a few curious alarm bells start going off. 35 kids in the entire school, all of them in the basketball program as an example (I'm using this as an illustration only). Those types of things raise people's eyebrows and end up on HBO as a result. Fairly or unfairly.
Many of these foreign players are brought over to play basketball. Places like Stoneridge facilitates that goal as quickly as possible.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on April 27, 2009, 02:26:34 PM
Seems like you are more concerned with people's percections than with reality. If this 19 year old young man can speak 4 languages fluently I'm not too concerned with his ability in the classroom. If I ever was critical of any Memphis, Louisville or Cincinnati player with these kind of credentials (which I sincerely doubt), I hereby publicly apologize. If people want to "raise their eyebrows" without learning the facts I couldn't care less.
What is the reality?
Quote from: mu-rara on April 27, 2009, 04:33:09 PM
Grow a set PRN. These vague accusations are just drivel. Specifics or shut your piehole.
"Grow a set?" Those are mighty grown up words!
I'd suggest to you that pointing out an out-of-left field coaching hire, followed by an influx of junior college transfers, on top of a listed 100 percent graduation rate are not "accusations" as much as they are observations. Some of us are concerned about the basketball program above and beyond wins and losses.
Incidentally, your avatar is taken from a photo of a pennant that hangs in my home so a little respect, please.
Quote from: IrwinFletcher on April 27, 2009, 04:30:17 PM
I sure as heck do. I may be in the minority here, but the integrity of the University matters to me as much, if not more, than the won loss record. I think the success we have had on the court the last 6 years, married with the success off the court, makes us look good and me feel proud of MU.
There will be some that will want to poke holes in this, that is fine. But you can win and do things correctly and that is what I expect out of Marquette.
+1
I'd like to win, not be slapped by the NCAA and have kids graduate. We've been doing that and hope it continues. Buzz seems genuinely interested in kids getting their degrees. As long as that continues and the rates are high, I'll be a happy camper.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on April 27, 2009, 02:26:34 PM
Seems like you are more concerned with people's percections than with reality. If this 19 year old young man can speak 4 languages fluently I'm not too concerned with his ability in the classroom. If I ever was critical of any Memphis, Louisville or Cincinnati player with these kind of credentials (which I sincerely doubt), I hereby publicly apologize. If people want to "raise their eyebrows" without learning the facts I couldn't care less.
I know a 6 year old that speaks 3 different languages. Being multi lingual in some countries and cultures is the norm. It is important that Mboe speaks and understands English ( not always one in the same ). Being multi lingual does not by itself indicate a preparedness for college.
Quote from: PuertoRicanNightmare on April 27, 2009, 04:48:00 PM
"Grow a set?" Those are mighty grown up words!
I'd suggest to you that pointing out an out-of-left field coaching hire, followed by an influx of junior college transfers, on top of a listed 100 percent graduation rate are not "accusations" as much as they are observations. Some of us are concerned about the basketball program above and beyond wins and losses.
Incidentally, your avatar is taken from a photo of a pennant that hangs in my home so a little respect, please.
You've had no problem on this board floating accusations about various items, such as the nickname situation and how Buzz was hired. But questioning how MU is achieving a 100% graduation rate is just an "observation" by you?
::)
everyone piling on PRN... no surprises there... I believe what he was getting at was don't assume that we are as perfect as we seem to be... and I think it is a legitimate concern.
TCTB, I applaud your grandstanding (as well as everyone else's here) in your assumption that MU player athletes take hard classes, and public schooled kids take all easy classes like "PE". Additionally, I applaud you for believing your own BS. I have personally had 'student' athletes in a few of my classes (Merrit and ODB in one of my freshman requirement classes; Wade in my freshman english class; Merrit, ODB, and Ron Howard in my "Acting for Non-Majors" blow off class).
I can tell you that with the exception of Wade in English, the rest of them (and I had the opportunity to read the 'work' they did... I was going to include examples, but realized that I probably shouldn't) and it was not what I would consider 'college level' work.
Given that, and the fact that we are a private university and can get away with more academically since we don't have the full disclosure that public universities have... I think there is a chance that some things are kept hidden from everyone.
or maybe I'm just a douche.
Quote from: Tom Crean's Tanning Bed on April 27, 2009, 04:59:51 PM
You've had no problem on this board floating accusations about various items, such as the nickname situation and how Buzz was hired. But questioning how MU is achieving a 100% graduation rate is just an "observation" by you?
::)
I don't "float accusations." I express my opinion.
What were my "accusations" about the nickname and the Buzz hiring? That "Gold" was Crean's idea? It was. That Buzz was hired only after being interviewed by Dick Strong? He was.
Now I'm wondering aloud what our players are doing to achieve this graduation rate of 100 percent. Anybody with any ounce of sense would realize that number is a little bit too good to be true.
Some of you guys just don't want to hear this stuff.
Quote from: PuertoRicanNightmare on April 28, 2009, 09:48:46 AM
Some of you guys just don't want to hear this stuff.
For the first time ever, I agree with you 100%.
Quote from: Hards_Alumni on April 28, 2009, 09:18:23 AM
or maybe I'm just a douche.
HAHAHA, on this I think we can all agree.
Quote from: dennycrane on April 27, 2009, 04:52:40 PM
I know a 6 year old that speaks 3 different languages. Being multi lingual in some countries and cultures is the norm. It is important that Mboe speaks and understands English ( not always one in the same ). Being multi lingual does not by itself indicate a preparedness for college.
Mbao is reportedly fluent in 4 languages including English. Fluent means speaking and understanding. He also has a wealth of life experiences to draw from - adapting and thriving in various cultures. There are young men currently playing DI basketball who can barely speak English (we've all witnessed the painful interviews) and who couldn't spell cat if you spotted them the c and the a. Mbao has already overcome his share of obstacles to get this far and is said to have an admirable work ethic. Worry about him if you must - based on what I've heard I'm not.
Quote from: Hards_Alumni on April 28, 2009, 09:18:23 AM
everyone piling on PRN... no surprises there... I believe what he was getting at was don't assume that we are as perfect as we seem to be... and I think it is a legitimate concern.
TCTB, I applaud your grandstanding (as well as everyone else's here) in your assumption that MU player athletes take hard classes, and public schooled kids take all easy classes like "PE". Additionally, I applaud you for believing your own BS. I have personally had 'student' athletes in a few of my classes (Merrit and ODB in one of my freshman requirement classes; Wade in my freshman english class; Merrit, ODB, and Ron Howard in my "Acting for Non-Majors" blow off class).
I can tell you that with the exception of Wade in English, the rest of them (and I had the opportunity to read the 'work' they did... I was going to include examples, but realized that I probably shouldn't) and it was not what I would consider 'college level' work.
Given that, and the fact that we are a private university and can get away with more academically since we don't have the full disclosure that public universities have... I think there is a chance that some things are kept hidden from everyone.
or maybe I'm just a douche.
MU graduates 100% because they provide academic support beyond what most institutions provide. It started with McGuire promising that if you came to Marquette, you would leave with a degree.
I am NOT saying that these kids have the same academic prowess that PRN has. I am saying that Marquette puts a lot of resources into supporting these guys.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on April 28, 2009, 10:27:00 AM
Mbao is reportedly fluent in 4 languages including English. Fluent means speaking and understanding. He also has a wealth of life experiences to draw from - adapting and thriving in various cultures. There are young men currently playing DI basketball who can barely speak English (we've all witnessed the painful interviews) and who couldn't spell cat if you spotted them the c and the a. Mbao has already overcome his share of obstacles to get this far and is said to have an admirable work ethic. Worry about him if you must - based on what I've heard I'm not.
you must know him really well! What exactly were his grades like and did he have tutors, and what were his teachers grading habits?
Yeah, I thought not.
everyone on this board has blinders on.
Quote from: mu-rara on April 28, 2009, 10:41:17 AM
MU graduates 100% because they provide academic support beyond what most institutions provide. It started with McGuire promising that if you came to Marquette, you would leave with a degree.
I am NOT saying that these kids have the same academic prowess that PRN has. I am saying that Marquette puts a lot of resources into supporting these guys.
you're right! I'm sure Crean never leaned on a teacher or had someone lean on a teacher to pass one of his players... impossible!
Quote from: Hards_Alumni on April 28, 2009, 09:18:23 AM
everyone piling on PRN... no surprises there... I believe what he was getting at was don't assume that we are as perfect as we seem to be... and I think it is a legitimate concern.
TCTB, I applaud your grandstanding (as well as everyone else's here) in your assumption that MU player athletes take hard classes, and public schooled kids take all easy classes like "PE". Additionally, I applaud you for believing your own BS. I have personally had 'student' athletes in a few of my classes (Merrit and ODB in one of my freshman requirement classes; Wade in my freshman english class; Merrit, ODB, and Ron Howard in my "Acting for Non-Majors" blow off class).
I can tell you that with the exception of Wade in English, the rest of them (and I had the opportunity to read the 'work' they did... I was going to include examples, but realized that I probably shouldn't) and it was not what I would consider 'college level' work.
I have no doubt that one of the reasons that our graduation rate is 100% is because many of these guys are in relatively easy programs and because they are supported very well academically. This is hardly unique to us or to public universities. To me, you have to strike that balance. Do we want to be Northwestern where they make few exceptions on their admissions policy for athletes? Or do you want to have a BE quality basketball program?
I don't think you can have both. Neither Christian Laettner nor Bobby Hurley would have gotten into Duke if they weren't basketball players.
I think the key is that if you get them here that they earn a legitimate degree from MU. If that degree is accredited, and it is accomplished without academic fraud, then it is legitimate in my eyes. If it isn't up to the quality that we expect from an institution like MU...well...there is where the balance comes in. And part of that means that MU needs to figure out how important basketball is in the grand scheme of things. Because again, if we want our basketball players to be civil engineers, we better lower our on-court expectations right now.
Quote from: Hards_Alumni on April 28, 2009, 10:43:04 AM
you're right! I'm sure Crean never leaned on a teacher or had someone lean on a teacher to pass one of his players... impossible!
I'm sure you have the goods on Crean, and as anyone with an ounce of integrity would do, you have taken the evidence to the proper authorities.
Yeah, I thought not.
Quote from: The Wizard of West Salem on April 28, 2009, 10:55:05 AM
I have no doubt that one of the reasons that our graduation rate is 100% is because many of these guys are in relatively easy programs and because they are supported very well academically. This is hardly unique to us or to public universities. To me, you have to strike that balance. Do we want to be Northwestern where they make few exceptions on their admissions policy for athletes? Or do you want to have a BE quality basketball program?
I don't think you can have both. Neither Christian Laettner nor Bobby Hurley would have gotten into Duke if they weren't basketball players.
I think the key is that if you get them here that they earn a legitimate degree from MU. If that degree is accredited, and it is accomplished without academic fraud, then it is legitimate in my eyes. If it isn't up to the quality that we expect from an institution like MU...well...there is where the balance comes in. And part of that means that MU needs to figure out how important basketball is in the grand scheme of things. Because again, if we want our basketball players to be civil engineers, we better lower our on-court expectations right now.
agreed, I am merely playing devil's advocate and trying to make people understand that the possibility is out there that everything isn't "hunky dorey".
Quote from: Lennys Tap on April 28, 2009, 11:00:09 AM
I'm sure you have the goods on Crean, and as anyone with an ounce of integrity would do, you have taken the evidence to the proper authorities.
Yeah, I thought not.
Its ok, I didn't expect you to understand.
I am not here making accusations, instead I am trying to make people realize that the academic side of college basketball is gray at best... and our 100% graduation rate is somewhat suspect given the circumstances.
Quote from: Hards_Alumni on April 28, 2009, 11:01:50 AM
agreed, I am merely playing devil's advocate and trying to make people understand that the possibility is out there that everything isn't "hunky dorey".
While I agree that you can/should be somewhat skeptical of a person or institution that is exceedingly successful at something, I think you can also look at MU's system and reasonably believe that the players are working hard in the classroom.
Are all of them Rhodes Scholars? Nope.
Do they have a TON of tutoring and get to take make-up exams do to their travel schedule? Yep.
Does that mean MU's head coach is leaning on teachers and MU's graduation rate isn't genuine? Nope.
What are we talking about? These guys all came away from MU with degrees. Everybody who went to Marquette does not get a degree in Engineering or Literature
They lead productive lives and have a degree from a prestigious institution
Similiar degrees offered at Harvard or Berkely... probably more
Quote from: Hards_Alumni on April 28, 2009, 09:18:23 AM
Given that, and the fact that we are a private university and can get away with more academically since we don't have the full disclosure that public universities have... I think there is a chance that some things are kept hidden from everyone.
or maybe I'm just a douche.
Funny, I just had this argument with a friend of mine regarding the private versus public universities. The theory being that private univerisities can lower standards easier and get away with more. I am not saying that private schools are not cheating (University of Miami, USC, and Syracuse come to mind) but it seems to me that public schools are much worse than the private schools. If you just used felony arrests as a proxy, I don't think it would be even close. There are more public schools than private, but if you ran the per capita numbers, I think public student-athletes seem to have a higher rate.
Quote from: 2002mualum on April 28, 2009, 11:15:49 AM
While I agree that you can/should be somewhat skeptical of a person or institution that is exceedingly successful at something, I think you can also look at MU's system and reasonably believe that the players are working hard in the classroom.
Are all of them Rhodes Scholars? Nope.
Do they have a TON of tutoring and get to take make-up exams do to their travel schedule? Yep.
Does that mean MU's head coach is leaning on teachers and MU's graduation rate isn't genuine? Nope.
right, and I am not leaning one way or another, nor was PRN... yet we are being basically crucified because we acknowledge the possibility given the facts.
A communications degree with a C average is still a degree. It may not get you into grad school, but it still counts. If some players achieve that only with extensive tutoring, they still achieve it.
Quote from: Hards_Alumni on April 28, 2009, 11:21:03 AM
right, and I am not leaning one way or another, nor was PRN... yet we are being basically crucified because we acknowledge the possibility given the facts.
I think this falls into the "message boards aren't good for communicating" file.
I mean, your sarcastic comment about Crean definitely makes me think that you are leaning towards thinking "something is fishy". You may not have meant it that way, but that's the impression that I got.
As far PRN goes, he has a history of making bold remarks without providing reasonable proof, and so people jump on him a lot.
Example: Crean came up with "gold"? Is that factual? Where was that reported?
Quote from: 2002mualum on April 28, 2009, 11:33:07 AM
I think this falls into the "message boards aren't good for communicating" file.
I mean, your sarcastic comment about Crean definitely makes me think that you are leaning towards thinking "something is fishy". You may not have meant it that way, but that's the impression that I got.
As far PRN goes, he has a history of making bold remarks without providing reasonable proof, and so people jump on him a lot.
Example: Crean came up with "gold"? Is that factual? Where was that reported?
+1. Even if playing devil's advocate, Hards and PRN are really making it sound like they believe whole heartedly that 'fishy' activity happens in regards to the academics of the athletes.
Quote from: 2002mualum on April 28, 2009, 10:02:22 AM
For the first time ever, I agree with you 100%.
That is because I'm dumb as a post.
PRN - no insults - unless you insult yourself...I guess ;D
Quote from: muwarrior87 on April 28, 2009, 11:58:37 AM
+1. Even if playing devil's advocate, Hards and PRN are really making it sound like they believe whole heartedly that 'fishy' activity happens in regards to the academics of the athletes.
as stated, I only believe that there is the possibility, and it would seem that everyone else is blind to the possibility.
it should be a tiny bit 'fishy' to everyone... but I guess no one questions anything anymore.
by the way, the moon really is made of cheese.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on April 28, 2009, 10:27:00 AM
Mbao is reportedly fluent in 4 languages including English. Fluent means speaking and understanding. He also has a wealth of life experiences to draw from - adapting and thriving in various cultures. There are young men currently playing DI basketball who can barely speak English (we've all witnessed the painful interviews) and who couldn't spell cat if you spotted them the c and the a. Mbao has already overcome his share of obstacles to get this far and is said to have an admirable work ethic. Worry about him if you must - based on what I've heard I'm not.
Source?
Maybe he is "fluent" in all languages. That still would not change my point.
Quote from: Hards_Alumni on April 28, 2009, 11:03:13 AM
Its ok, I didn't expect you to understand.
I am not here making accusations, instead I am trying to make people realize that the academic side of college basketball is gray at best... and our 100% graduation rate is somewhat suspect given the circumstances.
Given WHAT circumstances???? Marquette's long history of NCAA sanctions and probation? You've got to be kidding me.
While Marquette has had a number of players leave without graduating (Wade and Rivers to name two), Marquette's never had any history of impropriety.
Quote from: lurch91 on April 28, 2009, 03:10:19 PM
Given WHAT circumstances???? Marquette's long history of NCAA sanctions and probation? You've got to be kidding me.
While Marquette has had a number of players leave without graduating (Wade and Rivers to name two), Marquette's never had any history of impropriety.
typically I read the whole thread before making a comment... just sayin.
Quote from: Hards_Alumni on April 28, 2009, 11:03:13 AM
Its ok, I didn't expect you to understand.
I am not here making accusations, instead I am trying to make people realize that the academic side of college basketball is gray at best... and our 100% graduation rate is somewhat suspect given the circumstances.
I apologize if I misunderstood. I took your post to mean you had evidence TC had pressured teachers on the player's behalf. I agree that anything is "possible" but I don't what the "circumstances" are in the "our 100% graduation rate is somewhat suspect given the circumstances" statement.
I would be much more suspicious if there were other "red flags" -numerous "police blotter" incidents, inability to speak the king's english, etc. Maybe I'm myopic or a Pollyanna but I don't see much of the "thug culture" evident at MU.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on April 28, 2009, 03:32:27 PM
I apologize if I misunderstood. I took your post to mean you had evidence TC had pressured teachers on the player's behalf. I agree that anything is "possible" but I don't what the "circumstances" are in the "our 100% graduation rate is somewhat suspect given the circumstances" statement.
I would be much more suspicious if there were other "red flags" -numerous "police blotter" incidents, inability to speak the king's english, etc. Maybe I'm myopic or a Pollyanna but I don't see much of the "thug culture" evident at MU.
I would completely agree with that.
Why are we criticising people we have never met. Assuming Buzz is not a hypocite he is very concerned about people's character. Mbao was at Stonebridge because that was his opportunity to come to the United States. That has nothing to do with his character or intelligence. As far as kids coming from junior college that is probably more of a reflection on their support system than it is of their intelligence. My daughter who teaches in elementry school will tell you from experience her toughest kids to handle have parents who do not care. Her best students have parents that do care. Some kids strive to overcome this and the path takes them to junior college. Sure not every junior college person is going to be successful and a good citizen, but it is up to Buzz's staff to weed those people out. Until we actually find that Buzz's recruits are deficient in some way I see no reason for topics like this.
Quote from: bilsu on April 28, 2009, 03:55:11 PM
Why are we criticising people we have never met. Assuming Buzz is not a hypocite he is very concerned about people's character. Mbao was at Stonebridge because that was his opportunity to come to the United States. That has nothing to do with his character or intelligence. As far as kids coming from junior college that is probably more of a reflection on their support system than it is of their intelligence. My daughter who teaches in elementry school will tell you from experience her toughest kids to handle have parents who do not care. Her best students have parents that do care. Some kids strive to overcome this and the path takes them to junior college. Sure not every junior college person is going to be successful and a good citizen, but it is up to Buzz's staff to weed those people out. Until we actually find that Buzz's recruits are deficient in some way I see no reason for topics like this.
I don't think people were criticizing Mbao. Nor should they. People were criticizing Stoneridge, or at the very least have legitimate concerns about Stoneridge.
Quote from: dennycrane on April 28, 2009, 02:21:54 PM
Source?
Maybe he is "fluent" in all languages. That still would not change my point.
Source is Coach Benford in the Milwaukee Journal as quoted by Todd Rosiak.
Quote from: Hards_Alumni on April 28, 2009, 12:27:14 PM
as stated, I only believe that there is the possibility, and it would seem that everyone else is blind to the possibility.
it should be a tiny bit 'fishy' to everyone... but I guess no one questions anything anymore.
by the way, the moon really is made of cheese.
I'll question the validity of it but I'll also assume that this practice is done almost universally at major colleges across the country. That being said, we still have a 100% grad rate. Does that just mean we're better at the 'fishy' stuff? Maybe. But I also know that the tutoring and other academic services provided to the student athletes at Marquette is amazing. I'm in the Al a lot and can say I know a number of athletes personally and the academic support they get is really, really good. There's a reason our sports budget is so high per player...it goes to academic support.
Quote from: muwarrior87 on April 28, 2009, 07:48:15 PM
There's a reason our sports budget is so high per player...it goes to academic support.
This is complete nonsense. The reason our spending has been so high is because our previous head coach has been like a sailor on shore leave, jetting off to coaching clinics, spring training games to see "good friend" Tony LaRussa, see "prospects" he had zero chance of landing, having his father in law on the payroll for well more than 6 figures, taking limos to wake up entire neighborhoods in the middle of the night. You'll see a significant drop in spending since Buzz apparently has much larger male genatalia and, therefore, a lower desire to feed his ego.
Not to mention spending money on hyperbaric chambers, karate lessons, tackling tummies, and chartering DWade in to impress the aforementioned recipient of said limo in neighborhood at midnight.
Quote from: PuertoRicanNightmare on April 28, 2009, 09:26:54 PM
This is complete nonsense. The reason our spending has been so high is because our previous head coach has been like a sailor on shore leave, jetting off to coaching clinics, spring training games to see "good friend" Tony LaRussa, see "prospects" he had zero chance of landing, having his father in law on the payroll for well more than 6 figures, taking limos to wake up entire neighborhoods in the middle of the night. You'll see a significant drop in spending since Buzz apparently has much larger male genatalia and, therefore, a lower desire to feed his ego.
I don't always agree with you but you never fail to crack me up. One of the qualities that TC seems to lack (along with many of his ardent supporters) is a sense of humor. I'd pay to hear you, 4ever and a few of our other posters roast TC. There certainly seems to be no shortage of material.
Quote from: 4everwarriors on April 28, 2009, 09:32:49 PM
Not to mention spending money on hyperbaric chambers, karate lessons, tackling tummies, and chartering DWade in to impress the aforementioned recipient of said limo in neighborhood at midnight.
Also, ATVs and exorbitant salaries for his assistants to prevent them from fleeing.