Patrick Hazel to transfer from Marquette University
Written by: noreply@blogger.com (muwarrior92)
Fox Sports a few days ago posted a list of upcoming transfers (http://community.foxsports.com/blogs/goodmanonfox/2009/04/10/THE_MUCHANTICIPATED_TRANSFER_LIST) from division one schools. We confirmed tonight with Fox Sports that Hazel will, indeed, be transferring from Marquette University. Though nothing official has come from Buzz Williams, his staff, or the athletic department, Fox Sports indicated that it is definitely happening per sources close to the program (i.e. from a coach or administrator on the staff).
The move should not catch anyone by surprise. Hazel did not play any significant minutes down the stretch for Buzz's squad, even in blowout games (30 point win against St. John's) or contests where a tall body seemed the order of the day. Hazel failed to appear in any of the final ten games of the season. With Marquette over the limit by one scholarship, a transfer has been widely expected for weeks with Hazel the most likely candidate.
Hazel played in 21 games this season and averaged just a shade over 2 points per game. Hazel is from Queens, NY.
http://www.crackedsidewalks.com/2009/04/patrick-hazel-to-transfer-from.html
damn. as much as we could all see it coming it still sucks. i really liked hazell and thought he was fun to watch with the energy he brought. best of luck to him
Quote from: wermarquette on April 13, 2009, 12:38:27 AM
i really liked hazell and thought he was fun to watch with the energy he brought.
Jeremy Hazell, from SHU, was fun to watch and brought lots of energy.
I wish Pat Hazel the best of luck in his future endeavors. Unfortunate he never became the player we all hoped he'd be, but perhaps he'll find his groove somewhere else.
Tough spot for a guy when the coach who recruits him left. He just did not seem to fit into Buzz's system. Echoing the above posts, best of luck to him.
Quote from: HoopsMalone on April 13, 2009, 01:18:10 AM
Tough spot for a guy when the coach who recruits him left. He just did not seem to fit into Buzz's system. Echoing the above posts, best of luck to him.
Based on his playing time in his freshmen year, he didn't fit in Crean's system, either.
Good luck to him, tough spot to be in, especially with everyone assuming(correctly) for the last 2 months that he was out...
On another note, i wonder what the history of success is behind players who have transferred from MU? I can't think of any that went on to any measure of success, any thoughts?
Quote from: Jblattner7 on April 13, 2009, 04:20:59 AM
On another note, i wonder what the history of success is behind players who have transferred from MU? I can't think of any that went on to any measure of success, any thoughts?
You normally don't leave a Big East team looking for a step up. You leave becuase you are over matched. See Scott C. last year.
About the closest you will find to having sucess elsewhere is Mason at LSU. On the other side, few will be more helpful than Robert Jackson transferring in to MU. Acker is also a plus transferring in.
doesn't this have more to do with off court issues?
Quote from: Jblattner7 on April 13, 2009, 04:20:59 AM
Good luck to him, tough spot to be in, especially with everyone assuming(correctly) for the last 2 months that he was out...
On another note, i wonder what the history of success is behind players who have transferred from MU? I can't think of any that went on to any measure of success, any thoughts?
Odartey Blankson did pretty well for himself after he left for UNLV, but that's about it.
Quote from: ATWizJr on April 13, 2009, 06:55:46 AM
doesn't this have more to do with off court issues?
Yes, I believe that is correct....
Ron Howard, who transferred a few years back, is currently doing OK in the NBA D-League.
Though he didn't become a star, I'd say Amoroso transferring to San Diego State worked out well for him, too.
I still think Hazel is Burke quality +/- 5%. I understand that's nothing special, but why he couldn't find a few minutes on a team desperate for interior minutes is beyond me. But two MU coaches in a row did not see enough in him to put him on the floor, so I am most definitely overestimating him. Hopefully he can go to a lower level program and find some playing time. I know he'd be a valuable addition to the two D-I schools in my area, Fairfield and Sacred Heart, so I'll bet there's a fit out there for him that will make both him and his new school happy.
Quote from: esotericmindguy on April 13, 2009, 07:21:03 AM
Yes, I believe that is correct....
I believe in second chances so I hope this works out well for him. Good luck Patrick.
Quote from: ATWizJr on April 13, 2009, 06:55:46 AM
doesn't this have more to do with off court issues?
Alright, who's going to elaborate on this?
Quote from: eaglewarrior08 on April 13, 2009, 08:54:37 AM
Alright, who's going to elaborate on this?
It's already been brought up and deleted, and that's best.
Let's leave it at that. The program did so Pat would have the chance to latch on somewhere else.
I wish him the best of luck. Perhaps at a mid-major he could get some minutes.
Quote from: MUfan12 on April 13, 2009, 09:16:09 AM
It's already been brought up and deleted, and that's best.
Let's leave it at that. The program did so Pat would have the chance to latch on somewhere else.
Ah. Well then I guess I should have been paying attention to that long Hazel thread that was going on a little while back. Oh well.
Quote from: ecompt on April 13, 2009, 07:26:05 AM
Ron Howard, who transferred a few years back, is currently doing OK in the NBA D-League.
And Karon Bradley was a solid role player on Wichita State's Sweet 16 team a few years back. He's apparently playing pro ball in Switzerland these days.
http://www.eurobasket.com/player.asp?Cntry=SUI&PlayerID=92558
Carlton Christian left Central Florida team before ever playing a game and hasn't been heard from since.
Anybody know what became of Matt Mortensen?
Quote from: AnotherMU84 on April 13, 2009, 06:00:29 AM
You normally don't leave a Big East team looking for a step up. You leave becuase you are over matched. See Scott C. last year.
About the closest you will find to having sucess elsewhere is Mason at LSU. On the other side, few will be more helpful than Robert Jackson transferring in to MU. Acker is also a plus transferring in.
Didn't Scott C. transfer to a Big 12 school? Not exactly chopped liver with Oklahoma, Kansas, Texas Oklahoma State, etc
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on April 13, 2009, 11:16:22 AM
Didn't Scott C. transfer to a Big 12 school? Not exactly chopped liver with Oklahoma, Kansas, Texas Oklahoma State, etc
Iowa State is the chopped liver of the Big 12.
Quote from: The Wizard of West Salem on April 13, 2009, 11:23:41 AM
Iowa State is the chopped liver of the Big 12.
That may be the case but he's going to be playing against tough competition whether it was the Big East or the Big 12.....either way that's the deal from a competitive standpoint.
April 13, 2009
For Immediate Release
MU Sophomore Patrick Hazel To Leave Program
New York Native Will Transfer At Conclusion Of Spring Semester
Milwaukee – Sophomore forward Patrick Hazel of the Marquette University men's basketball team will transfer to another program at the end of the Spring semester, head coach Buzz Williams announced Monday morning.
"We are grateful for the two years Pat was a part of our institution, and our program," Williams said. "He has been an excellent teammate since he arrived, and has done an outstanding job in the classroom. He has made the decision to go back closer to home, and hopes to have a more expanded role at his next stop. Everyone in our program wishes him nothing but the absolute best."
In two seasons with the Golden Eagles, Hazel appeared in 35 games as a reserve. He averaged 1.6 points and 1.7 rebounds per contest in an average of 8.5 minutes per game.
Hazel to transfer
Sophomore forward Pat Hazel will transfer from Marquette University at the end of the spring semester, the school announced on Monday.
Hazel averaged 2.3 points and 2.1 rebounds in 21 games this past season for the Golden Eagles. He did not play in any of MU's final 10 games.
"We are grateful for the two years Pat was a part of our institution, and our program," coach Buzz Williams said in a statement released by MU.
"He has been an excellent teammate since he arrived, and has done an outstanding job in the classroom. He has made the decision to go back closer to home, and hopes to have a more expanded role at his next stop. Everyone in our program wishes him nothing but the absolute best."
Hazel's transfer clears the way for the addition of junior-college guard Darius Johnson-Odom, who orally committed to MU last week. He's expected to sign with the Golden Eagles on Wednesday, the opening day of the spring signing period.
Hazel leaves MU having averaged 1.6 points and 1.7 rebounds in 35 games as a reserve in his two seasons.
http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/42907222.html
Quote from: bma725 on April 13, 2009, 07:07:29 AM
Odartey Blankson did pretty well for himself after he left for UNLV, but that's about it.
He walked away from a final four team. Bad trade
Hazel to transfer
Sophomore forward Pat Hazel will transfer from Marquette University at the end of the spring semester, the school announced on Monday.
Hazel averaged 2.3 points and 2.1 rebounds in 21 games this past season for the Golden Eagles. He did not play in any of MU's final 10 games.
"We are grateful for the two years Pat was a part of our institution, and our program," coach Buzz Williams said in a statement released by MU.
"He has been an excellent teammate since he arrived, and has done an outstanding job in the classroom. He has made the decision to go back closer to home, and hopes to have a more expanded role at his next stop. Everyone in our program wishes him nothing but the absolute best."
Hazel's transfer clears the way for the addition of junior-college guard Darius Johnson-Odom, who orally committed to MU last week. He's expected to sign with the Golden Eagles on Wednesday, the opening day of the spring signing period.
Hazel leaves MU having averaged 1.6 points and 1.7 rebounds in 35 games as a reserve in his two seasons.
He opened the season solidly in the rotation, and had high games of 10 points and 22 minutes against Chicago State on Nov. 17 and six rebounds against UW-Milwaukee on Nov. 22.
He played double-digit minutes in each of the Golden Eagles' first four Big East games, but then played just 32 minutes in total the rest of the way.
http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/42907222.html
Quote from: AnotherMU84 on April 13, 2009, 11:56:44 AM
He walked away from a final four team. Bad trade
Not only that. ODB ended up playing the "4" spot for most of his UNLV tenure after not doing well as a 3/2 there. could not nail the three-ball consistently.
Quote from: AnotherMU84 on April 13, 2009, 11:56:44 AM
He walked away from a final four team. Bad trade
Who says we still make the Final Four with him there?
Forgot about cumulative talent. Remember the contribution of guys that were given a chance to play and develop because ODB wasn't around. Who's to say that still happens if he is there.
Quote from: bma725 on April 13, 2009, 12:07:37 PM
Who says we still make the Final Four with him there?
Forgot about cumulative talent. Remember the contribution of guys that were given a chance to play and develop because ODB wasn't around. Who's to say that still happens if he is there.
We'll never know. Where ODB was missed most was the 03-04 season.
always thought that if Blankson had not transferred, we were odds on to win that year. he would have started instead of Townsend, with Novak and Chapman and Bradley still coming off the bench.Sounds damn good to me.
I thought ODB left because he didn't want to play 2nd fiddle to Wade?
Quote from: LancesOtherNut on April 13, 2009, 03:21:17 PM
I thought ODB left because he didn't want to play 2nd fiddle to Wade?
He had a lot of people in his ear telling him a lot of different things. That was part of it, but there was also the thought that in order to get to the NBA he needed to play on the perimeter, which may not have happened at MU.
Quote from: MUfan12 on April 13, 2009, 09:16:09 AM
It's already been brought up and deleted, and that's best.
Let's leave it at that. The program did so Pat would have the chance to latch on somewhere else.
If you factually detail a situation without passing judgment, there's nothing wrong with that. There's also nothing wrong with "reporting" a rumor, if you make it clear that it is a rumor, and it is nothing totally, completely outlandish that would harm a kid's reputation.
That said, good luck to Hazel.
Quote from: Avenue Commons on April 13, 2009, 04:19:32 PM
If you factually detail a situation without passing judgment, there's nothing wrong with that. There's also nothing wrong with "reporting" a rumor, if you make it clear that it is a rumor, and it is nothing totally, completely outlandish that would harm a kid's reputation.
That said, good luck to Hazel.
What was posted would harm the kids reputation and hurt his chances of catching on elsewhere.
Quote from: bma725 on April 13, 2009, 06:10:47 PM
What was posted would harm the kids reputation and hurt his chances of catching on elsewhere.
A wonderful lesson in covering up indiscretions.
Quote from: bma725 on April 13, 2009, 06:10:47 PM
What was posted would harm the kids reputation and hurt his chances of catching on elsewhere.
I don't care one way or the other whether it's posted.
But I suspect that if Patrick did something irresponsible or inappropriate, other schools won't need or go to MU Scoop to find out about it.
Well, here is my question, is Roseboro an upgrade from Hazel? If Roseboro is not a clear improvement, then why was Roseboro recruited and Hazel given the ax? Can Roseboro block, run, rebound? At least Hazel could do that and has DIV I experience.
Do you think Layer will take Hazel with him to Liberty?
Quote from: NCMUFan on April 13, 2009, 08:04:54 PM
Well, here is my question, is Roseboro an upgrade from Hazel? If Roseboro is not a clear improvement, then why was Roseboro recruited and Hazel given the ax? Can Roseboro block, run, rebound? At least Hazel could do that and has DIV I experience.
Hazel was not given the ax because of playing ability. MU has chosen not to report the actual reasons for his leaving out of respect to Pat, but he's not being kicked off the team because Buzz feels he can get a better player.
Roseboro and Hazel are totally different players. Pat was a center in the body of a 6'5 small forward, and he didn't have good offensive skills for either position. Roseboro is a legit 6'9 if not taller now, and he has a very good offensive game. Hazel also had major problems grasping the offense Buzz is trying to implement, and with his body type and skills he's not really a fit for that offense either. Roseboro is, and if he develops the way the coaches think he will, he'd be a perfect fit for the 4 out 1 in motion that Buzz wants to run.
Quote from: Ari Gold on April 13, 2009, 08:06:55 PM
Do you think Layer will take Hazel with him to Liberty?
Yeah...with his off court problems here, he'd be a great fit at Liberty.
Best Wishes. Patrick played tough when he was given the chance.
Quote from: bma725 on April 13, 2009, 08:12:12 PM
Hazel also had major problems grasping the offense Buzz is trying to implement,.
To elaborate on that point, before a game this season, they played a video on the JumboTron, asking the players which one of them does the best Buzz impression. Most guys said Lazar, and then Lazar did his impression. Now, he could have said anything, of course, but what he chose to say was:
"PAT! I told you SIX seconds ago that you have to stand HERE to set the screen! SIX SECONDS AGO, PAT!"
And again, they played this in front of THOUSANDS of people who were already in the BC for the game.
"I still think Hazel is Burke quality +/- 5%."
That's the meanest thing I've ever read on this board.
So the posts about Hazel's problems got deleted. Just out of curiosity, can someone send me a pm explaining what was going on?
Quote from: Kramerica on April 14, 2009, 12:45:18 PM
Hazel's problems
Without going into details, I need to provide some context to avoid wild speculation...
From what I understand, Pat did something wrong (not involving drugs, violence, women, or violating NCAA rules...), and then when it was found out,
he made things right. Honestly, I think a lot of college students *might* do the exact same thing Pat did if given the chance.
Nonetheless, I'm sure it was against team rules, and the rest you all know about. Ok. "nuff said. Please stop asking. Hazel sounds like a good kid, and I hope he gets a chance at another school.
Quote from: Kramerica on April 14, 2009, 12:45:18 PM
So the posts about Hazel's problems got deleted. Just out of curiosity, can someone send me a pm explaining what was going on?
+1. I'm pretty curious.
Was Hazel's "punishment" based, in part at least, on his basketball ability? In other words, if Butler or Lazar had done the same thing, would they have rode the bench the remainder of the season and then been shown the door? Or was a relatively minor incident used to clear a roster spot?
Quote from: rocky_warrior on April 14, 2009, 01:49:13 PM
Without going into details, I need to provide some context to avoid wild speculation...
From what I understand, Pat did something wrong (not involving drugs, violence, women, or violating NCAA rules...), and then when it was found out, he made things right. Honestly, I think a lot of college students *might* do the exact same thing Pat did if given the chance.
Nonetheless, I'm sure it was against team rules, and the rest you all know about. Ok. "nuff said. Please stop asking. Hazel sounds like a good kid, and I hope he gets a chance at another school.
I'm not saying I disagree with you, but you certainly could be accused of bending over backward to spin things in Pat's favor. If what was posted on this board previously (I'm not going to post it because TPTB obviously don't want it here) is accurate, it is against the law, as well as against team rules. And with that, I've probably gone too far and this post/thread will be deleted.
Edited because I can't spell.
They would have played but still would have transferred at the end of the season. See Dameon Mason as a prime example.
Quote from: StillAWarrior on April 14, 2009, 03:08:49 PM
I'm not saying I disagree with you, but you certainly could be accused of bending over backward to spin things in Pat's favor. If what was posted on this board previously (I'm not going to post it because TPTB obviously don't want it here) is accurate, it is against the law, as well as against team rules. And with that, I've probably gone too far and this post/thread will be deleted.
Edited because I can't spell.
I think because these guys are amateur athletes, they deserve a break from the scrutiny that a pro player would receive.
I don't know the whole story with Pat, but if Buzz and the AD are happy to let him rot on the bench before he transfers, I'm fine with that as a punishment.
Given MU's track record of good players/good people... I trust the judgment of those involved with the program.
I cannot decide which is worse. A public University that keeps reinstating players who cause physical harm to others or a Catholic University that drops a player for making a stupid decision. I wonder were the intolerence comes from. Crean ran off a few players too because of problems so this is not just Buzz's decision. Maybe this is filtering down from Fr. Wild? I thought McGuire handle it the right way. He made players apoligize to the home crowd before the start of the game for embarassing the University. I always thought I would not want to have to apoligize to 11,000+ people. A perfect example of this was Larry McNeal having to apoligize for his wife getting in a fight in the stands at the prior game. McGuire's discipline never hurt the team. Suspending a player can result in a loss, which hurts the team, fans and the University's pocket book if it hurts your NCAA chances. While Hazel was not a great player maybe 5 minutes from him against South Florida would have made a difference in that game. As they say at my church "hate the sin, but love the sinner". Assuming there is a zero tolerence policy, I hope it is made clear to players before they sign their letter of intent.
Quote from: bilsu on April 14, 2009, 07:56:40 PM
I cannot decide which is worse. A public University that keeps reinstating players who cause physical harm to others or a Catholic University that drops a player for making a stupid decision.
I think Hazel leaving was a fore-gone conclusion within the program, prior to his incident.
Hazel did what he did...and instead of calling him out in front of everyone and making him look like a fool, they handled it internally.
Had this information been released, it could have been more detrimental to his hopes in finding a new school to play for.
Buzz/the program/the universty did Pat a favor, the didn't "drop a player for making a bad decision" as you stated.
Well said, bilsu.
Well said MU1104.
What was Dameon Mason's transgression? I thought he just transferred because he wanted to be "the star"?
Quote from: MUfan12 on April 13, 2009, 09:16:09 AM
It's already been brought up and deleted, and that's best.
Let's leave it at that. The program did so Pat would have the chance to latch on somewhere else.
I really dislike the censorship that goes with the various Marquette boards. If a player was forced out of the USC Football team or Basketball team for off the field/court issues it would definitely be posted on the boards and it would stay.
Why does MU insist on such secrecy? Do people here honestly think that airing this stuff will hurt the program?
Quote from: SCdem@MU on April 15, 2009, 08:02:00 PM
I really dislike the censorship that goes with the various Marquette boards. If a player was forced out of the USC Football team or Basketball team for off the field/court issues it would definitely be posted on the boards and it would stay.
Why does MU insist on such secrecy? Do people here honestly think that airing this stuff will hurt the program?
to keep the player's dignity in tact as much as possible. If the incident isn't widely known, no need to smear it.
Quote from: muwarrior87 on April 15, 2009, 08:38:09 PM
to keep the player's dignity in tact as much as possible. If the incident isn't widely known, no need to smear it.
Fine, then I'm going to assume that Patrick Hazel is a dendrophiliac and was caught by DPS feeling up a tree.
I really was hoping that the secrecy around the program ended with Crean's departure.
Quote from: GOMU1104 on April 14, 2009, 08:39:35 PM
Had this information been released, it could have been more detrimental to his hopes in finding a new school to play for.
Right, because clearly the school he transfers to won't ask about it/find out about it. Coaches generally do their homework before taking a player on, even if they choose to ignore the issues.
If what he did is that serious then it should be aired. Whatever he did, at least he wasn't arrested for it, no record of a case in the Milwaukee court system.
Same can't be said about a certain former PG... but shhh! we aren't supposed to talk about that. Clearly teams won't do background checks.
Quote from: SCdem@MU on April 15, 2009, 08:50:15 PM
Fine, then I'm going to assume that Patrick Hazel is a dendrophiliac and was caught by DPS feeling up a tree.
I really was hoping that the secrecy around the program ended with Crean's departure.
They are amateur student athletes at a private institution.
Why are you acting like you have the "right" to know?
MU can handle it however they want. You may not like it, but it's not wrong for them to keep things in house.
Quote from: 2002mualum on April 15, 2009, 10:32:11 PM
They are amateur student athletes at a private institution.
Why are you acting like you have the "right" to know?
+1,000,000
Even athletes at a public institution have a right to have disciplinary actions kept private unless the police get involved. And I applaud the mods for deleting the threads. There is no reason we have to know the details. Its enough to say that he had off-court troubles and is transferring. Those who want to know the details are just in it for their curiosity.
Quote from: The Wizard of West Salem on April 16, 2009, 08:04:56 AM
+1,000,000
Even athletes at a public institution have a right to have disciplinary actions kept private unless the police get involved. And I applaud the mods for deleting the threads. There is no reason we have to know the details. Its enough to say that he had off-court troubles and is transferring. Those who want to know the details are just in it for their curiosity.
I agree... the only reason I bring up the "private thing" is because at a public school, a portion of our tax dollars are paying that players scholarship.
Anyways, you're right. The only people who really want to know are just trying to satisfy their curiosity. This is not a common theme at MU, and the vast majority of players have graduated and become nice young men. No need for an inquisition.
Quote from: The Wizard of West Salem on April 16, 2009, 08:04:56 AM
Those who want to know the details are just in it for their curiosity.
I disagree. I think a lot of people are interested in knowing because they want to know what is going on in the program and how the program is being run. And I think that's totally legitimate. People want to know whether Buzz is just running kids off for the hell of it and to make room for other kids, or whether he's asking them to leave for other reasons. I know that is my interest in the issue. I'm sure Buzz (like every other coach) will make recruiting mistakes. I'd like to think that Marquette will be a program that won't just yank kids' scholarships if they happen to find a kid they like better a year or two later. I think that Marquette should make a comittment to these kids and honor that comittment unless the kid does something that warrants that he be asked to leave the program. And frankly, I'd like Marquette to run a pretty tight ship and hold the players to high standards.
That said, I don't really disagree with the decision to pull the thread (although I'll admit that I'm kind of glad I saw it before it was pulled).
Quote from: StillAWarrior on April 16, 2009, 08:15:00 AM
I disagree. I think a lot of people are interested in knowing because they want to know what is going on in the program and how the program is being run. And I think that's totally legitimate. People want to know whether Buzz is just running kids off for the hell of it and to make room for other kids, or whether he's asking them to leave for other reasons. I know that is my interest in the issue. I'm sure Buzz (like every other coach) will make recruiting mistakes. I'd like to think that Marquette will be a program that won't just yank kids' scholarships if they happen to find a kid they like better a year or two later. I think that Marquette should make a comittment to these kids and honor that comittment unless the kid does something that warrants that he be asked to leave the program. And frankly, I'd like Marquette to run a pretty tight ship and hold the players to high standards.
That said, I don't really disagree with the decision to pull the thread (although I'll admit that I'm kind of glad I saw it before it was pulled).
If this kind of "stuff" was rumored for a couple different players for a couple years in a row, then I would agree with you.
But, at this point, MU has done an excellent job of maintaining a very clean program with some pretty good kids.
We have not suspected an "cover-ups" in the past, and MU has a 100% grad rate. So, I think we have a pretty decent idea that the program is being run pretty well.
Quote from: 2002mualum on April 16, 2009, 08:18:44 AM
If this kind of "stuff" was rumored for a couple different players for a couple years in a row, then I would agree with you.
But, at this point, MU has done an excellent job of maintaining a very clean program with some pretty good kids.
We have not suspected an "cover-ups" in the past, and MU has a 100% grad rate. So, I think we have a pretty decent idea that the program is being run pretty well.
I have two thoughts on your post. First, this is Buzz's first year as head coach and none of us really knows what kind of program he will run. I strongly suspect he's going to run a really clean program, but we don't know for sure.
Second, I guess it depends what kind of "stuff" you're talking about. What I'm talking about is a coach running a kid out simply because he found someone he likes better. I don't think Marquette should do that. I think if the program does happen to make a recruiting mistake, it should live with that mistake. So, that's why I'm curious about the reason a kid leaves the program. I would rather know that there was a real reason the kid was asked to leave. And I agree that the particulars really don't need to be hashed out, and that's why I haven't shared them with anyone.
Quote from: StillAWarrior on April 16, 2009, 08:27:00 AM
I have two thoughts on your post. First, this is Buzz's first year as head coach and none of us really knows what kind of program he will run. I strongly suspect he's going to run a really clean program, but we don't know for sure.
Second, I guess it depends what kind of "stuff" you're talking about. What I'm talking about is a coach running a kid out simply because he found someone he likes better. I don't think Marquette should do that. I think if the program does happen to make a recruiting mistake, it should live with that mistake. So, that's why I'm curious about the reason a kid leaves the program. I would rather know that there was a real reason the kid was asked to leave. And I agree that the particulars really don't need to be hashed out, and that's why I haven't shared them with anyone.
You're right, it's Buzz's first year with the program, so I guess I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt. Also, Fr. Wild and Cottingham are around as well. Obviously Buzz runs the day to day program, but I'm sure the AD and University President are aware of what is going on with the program. (ie if a player is being run out vs. a player making a mistake and being asked to leave).
Quote from: 2002mualum on April 16, 2009, 08:18:44 AM
If this kind of "stuff" was rumored for a couple different players for a couple years in a row, then I would agree with you.
But, at this point, MU has done an excellent job of maintaining a very clean program with some pretty good kids.
We have not suspected an "cover-ups" in the past, and MU has a 100% grad rate. So, I think we have a pretty decent idea that the program is being run pretty well.
And another thought: I think that these issues are important for recruiting. Two reasons:1) we want kids to know that Marquette will stick with them if they come; and 2) we want kids to know that Marquette will hold them to extremely high standards.
Quote from: StillAWarrior on April 16, 2009, 08:15:00 AM
I disagree. I think a lot of people are interested in knowing because they want to know what is going on in the program and how the program is being run. And I think that's totally legitimate. People want to know whether Buzz is just running kids off for the hell of it and to make room for other kids, or whether he's asking them to leave for other reasons.
But everyone acknowledges that he did have off court issues right? Would you blame Buzz for encouraging someone to consider a transfer...or even outright tell him to transfer...based on such issues? If so, why do we really need to know the specifics of what he did?
Quote from: StillAWarrior on April 16, 2009, 08:31:31 AM
And another thought: I think that these issues are important for recruiting. Two reasons:1) we want kids to know that Marquette will stick with them if they come; and 2) we want kids to know that Marquette will hold them to extremely high standards.
I agree with you. But that doesn't mean we have a right to know exactly what Hazel did.
Quote from: StillAWarrior on April 16, 2009, 08:31:31 AM
And another thought: I think that these issues are important for recruiting. Two reasons:1) we want kids to know that Marquette will stick with them if they come; and 2) we want kids to know that Marquette will hold them to extremely high standards.
As a parent, I would be comforted in the fact that a university does not publicly air a players (alleged) indiscretion. Teams are often referred to as "families" (home away from home for these kids), and sometimes family business is best kept in the family.
Imagine if the University printed names in all of the DPS reports, and printed the punishments that were handed out? I think it's better to handle these things privately.
Quote from: The Wizard of West Salem on April 16, 2009, 08:33:46 AM
I agree with you. But that doesn't mean we have a right to know exactly what Hazel did.
I really don't disagree with you too much. My entire point is that it may be more than idle curiosity. I think for a lot of people, there's a reason behind it: "what's it take to get kicked out of the program?" We know that schools have different approaches to that. At Notre Dame, apparently you can get arrested for smoking weed, and they'll beg you to come back. At Syracuse you can beat up your girlfriend. I know that people on this board have criticized those schools for those decisions. In light of that, I really am not too surprised that people want to know where Marquette draws the line. It would appear that Buzz is going to run a much tighter ship than some other programs.
Quote from: muwarrior87 on April 15, 2009, 08:38:09 PM
to keep the player's dignity in tact as much as possible. If the incident isn't widely known, no need to smear it.
The best way for a player to keep his dignity in tact is to act in a dignified way.
I'm not saying that the University should put out a press release announcing whatever the kid did, but if some member of the public knows about what happened and is willing to share it with others on a message board, I don't think it should be deleted or covered up by the message board police.
Interesting quote from Georgetown Coach JT3:
"People leave for different reasons," Georgetown Coach John Thompson III said yesterday. "Some leave because they are unhappy with their playing time. Some leave because of family situations and personal issues. Some people don't necessarily have the option to return. There are different reasons why people leave."
I am the "message board policeman" that has been spoken of.
Firstly, let's remember no one has a right to know anything. Nor does anyone have a right to post anything on this board. It's a privilege, bestowed by rocky and spiral, who pay for all this out of their own pocket.
Second .. as for "secrecy" within MU .. whatever. Truth is, the story was posted on Scoop, and was on here for 4 hours before someone at MU contacted a 3rd party who knows me, who asked me to remove it. (Why they didn't contact me directly is odd, but a different story.)
In any event, suffice it to say, Hazel did something that broke team rules, outside of the McGuire center. Now, whether that's not returning library books on time, stealing silverwear from Saga, drinking underage, whatever. Does it matter to you? Will it change your life somehow to know this one-sentence story, of how a 20 year old kid did something stupid that got himself in trouble? Nope.
As for wanting to know where MU would draw the line .. suffice it to say, IANAL, but think it'd be classified as a small potato crime. Sleep easy, be proud we have high standards.
So .. as a courtesy to the MU program, and to a young man, I removed the story.
Honestly, that helps all of us. It helps MU, helps Hazel, but also helps Scoop look good, doing a solid. That only helps our reputation, earns us some trust, and helps communications in the future.
Hilltopper, thanks for the explanation. It makes a difference to me that the school requested that the story be removed from the board--I respect that.
But I am interested as to the level of seriousness of a violation that our coach allows before someone is kicked off the team. Or asked not to return, etc.
First of all I think the University should keep it private. When McGuire had players apoligize it was already in the news. However, the problem with keeping it quite is that it leads to specaulation. I read the posts before they were deleted. The trouble is that they were unverifiable rumors and therefore should not have been posted. However, assuming they were true and Hazel was contrite about it he should not have been run off the team. The trouble is he may not have been run off the team, but decided to leave on his own. Basically we really know nothing about the entire situation. However, if he was still practicing with the team, I think it is poor judgement not to use him in games when we needed him.
My thought is this.....
I think it is admirable that MU wants to keep Pat's name clean and try to give him a second chance
I also think that in the real world, no one is going to cover up your mistake and give you a clean second chance. The second chance will come, but what you do will stick with you for the rest of your life.
This is a touchy debate and one that has no right or wrong answer. Like I said, I like the idea of MU keeping the issue in house, but I also do not think it helps Pat's future by giving him the impression that every mistake he makes will be covered up for his "image"
Quote from: warrior55 on April 16, 2009, 12:25:28 PM
I also do not think it helps Pat's future by giving him the impression that every mistake he makes will be covered up for his "image"
Fair.
But, then shouldn't MU publish all of the kid's names who get drinking tickets, or get written up in the DPS reports? I'm guessing the team knows what's going on. It's not like Buzz is keeping some huge secret. They just aren't telling the media about it, nor do they want it posted on a blog or website.
At the end of the day, Pat is a student... I don't think MU is trying "cover-up" for Pat. He just doesn't need his name out there anymore than a normal student would.
That's a really good point. I will guarantee you that an incident like Hazel's happens a dozen times a week on campus. Hell, look at the thread on Scoop, describing "Dorm Room Shenanigans" .. there's 100 crimes detailed in there, from theft, to vandalism to urinating on doorways.
Other kids, they do that stuff, it's hardly a footnote on their character. Maybe mom and dad find out, but that's pretty much the end of it, a bit of restitution, etc. Young basketball players do stupid stuff too, no doubt, but if their transgressions leak out, the world knows, and it has a much greater impact.
Quote from: mu_hilltopper on April 16, 2009, 12:57:23 PM
That's a really good point. I will guarantee you that an incident like Hazel's happens a dozen times a week on campus. Hell, look at the thread on Scoop, describing "Dorm Room Shenanigans" .. there's 100 crimes detailed in there, from theft, to vandalism to urinating on doorways.
Other kids, they do that stuff, it's hardly a footnote on their character. Maybe mom and dad find out, but that's pretty much the end of it, a bit of restitution, etc. Young basketball players do stupid stuff too, no doubt, but if their transgressions leak out, the world knows, and it has a much greater impact.
Fair enough, but I also think that just saying "I'm sorry" and "making things right" wouldn't make the situation go away for some students. Celebrity has its disadvantages (e.g., people find out about things you do) and also has its advantages (e.g., people may be willing to let some things go).
Quote from: StillAWarrior on April 16, 2009, 01:03:55 PM
Fair enough, but I also think that just saying "I'm sorry" and "making things right" wouldn't make the situation go away for some students. Celebrity has its disadvantages (e.g., people find out about things you do) and also has its advantages (e.g., people may be willing to let some things go).
While I think you are right, I'd rather error on the side of treating them more like a student than treating them more like a celebrity.
These guys are amateur athletes who don't get paid. There are some nice perks to being on the hoops team (no doubt), but I'm not sure the perks mean that the kid's laundry needs to be talked about on a message board.
For the record, I know for a fact that Hazel did indeed personally apologize to the parties involved. I saw the apology in writing (typed), firsthand.
Kid made a mistake. Wish him the best and move on.
I think it's ironic that everyone advocating for player secrecy here already knows what Hazel did.
Just my opinion, for what it's worth.
Quote from: Marquette Gyros on April 16, 2009, 03:19:04 PM
I think it's ironic that everyone advocating for player secrecy here already knows what Hazel did.
Just my opinion, for what it's worth.
<---- Has no idea what PH did and isn't losing any sleep over it either.
Quote from: mu_hilltopper on April 16, 2009, 12:57:23 PM
That's a really good point. I will guarantee you that an incident like Hazel's happens a dozen times a week on campus. Hell, look at the thread on Scoop, describing "Dorm Room Shenanigans" .. there's 100 crimes detailed in there, from theft, to vandalism to urinating on doorways.
Only a select few of the things posted in that forum would actually result in getting kicked out of Marquette.
Quote from: SCdem@MU on April 16, 2009, 04:06:28 PM
Only a select few of the things posted in that forum would actually result in getting kicked out of Marquette.
Correct, but most of them would get you asked not to return to Buzz's team.
Getting kicked out of school and having your full-ride rescinded by a Coach are two completely different things.
Being on a full ride basketball scholarship holds you to a higher standard than everyone else.....
Quote from: Skatastrophy on April 16, 2009, 04:08:54 PM
Getting kicked out of school and having your full-ride rescinded by a Coach are two completely different things.
Not when your ability to stay in school is a full-ride scholarship.
Other schools will generally at least say, "Player X has been asked to leave the team due to violating a team rule" even if they never state what the team rule violation was.
Most of those players land elsewhere. So the argument that airing whatever he did would keep him from transferring to another school/team is completely bogus unless he did something that violated NCAA rules or was highly illegal.
I will trade someone 100% verified knowledge of what Matt Mortenson did to get kicked off the team if they tell me what Pat Hazel did.
Any takers?
Come one, come all!!
Matt was booted because he did something that made him ineligible under NCAA rules and it was not academics. Kind of a limited universe of possibilities I would bet.
Quote from: tharocket on April 16, 2009, 04:30:53 PM
I will trade someone 100% verified knowledge of what Matt Mortenson did to get kicked off the team if they tell me what Pat Hazel did.
Any takers?
Come one, come all!!
If you're serious, I'm down. Always wondered about Mortenson, didn't think he was a good enough player to care enough to dig deep on it. I'm guessing he ventured into Potowatomi or something wasn't he like 35 after coming back from a mission?
Mortenseon was supposedly betting on college basketball games which makes him ineligible at any university.
Just some food for thought: Imagine this was Lazar being dismissed from the team without any explanation. (or even one of the three amigos before senior year for that matter). Do the same hush hush rules apply, or is that just for those who are more easily replaced?
I'm definitely not saying that a player's stat line should have any impact on levels of privacy. Just that you can't really fault people for being curious about something they're so invested in.
Quote from: Robyrd5 on April 16, 2009, 08:13:00 PM
Just some food for thought: Imagine this was Lazar being dismissed from the team without any explanation. (or even one of the three amigos before senior year for that matter). Do the same hush hush rules apply, or is that just for those who are more easily replaced?
I'm definitely not saying that a player's stat line should have any impact on levels of privacy. Just that you can't really fault people for being curious about something they're so invested in.
Patrick was not dismissed. He is transferring.
Quote from: 2002mualum on April 16, 2009, 09:24:29 PM
Patrick was not dismissed. He is transferring.
Semantics.
I thought Mortenseon was on Steroids......
I want to thank and acknowledge the mods for their actions on this thread. I don't know what happened and don't need to know. Simply, thanks for supporting a young man, supporting our alma mater, and supporting the basketball team. I'm proud that others that believe in Marquette as an institution and the basketball team as the most visible part of the school would act to do the right thing, well, just because it is right. Thanks.
I received a suggestion from one of our members this morning -- that we delete this thread because seeing it daily just sparks curiosity -- daily. I'm not going to delete it, but I am going to lock it. The best of both worlds.
If you have some other comment about Pat other than "what did he do", feel free to start a new thread.