Assuming that he doesn't have any medical issues that prevent him from playing, what do you see as McMorrow's role next year?
My take - sounds like he's athletic as word is he was better than Burke and Outle in practice. Hopefully he can rebound, run the floor and maybe get some garbage points. His size should definitely help an undersized team.
Next year's team will be like this year's team (but not at the same level), athletic and able to take the ball to the hole. McMorrow is interesting as a 7 foot 260 pound body is what we were missing last year. In a lot of ways, his performance could make the biggest difference of all the new bodies coming in.
Other thoughts?
Agree, from what we know, an athletic 7 footer that can run the floor and can board.
Otule looks too lumbering in my opinion,but what the crap do I know.
If we can get 23 minutes, 6-8 boards, 4 pts, and a block and a half I would be happy.
I think he is absolutely key. You don't want to say "can't miss" about a guy who is a role player, but if there are no health issues a 7-footer who played lacrosse and hockey has got to be a huge asset. The last two years we've needed late stops to go Sweet 16, and we just haven't had anyone we could put back near the rim to take away the quick 5-footer. I'm not saying he will be McIlvaine, but remember on that Sweet 16 team opponents shot 35% from the floor for the season. A shot blocker also threatens to block shots - I think he will be invaluable even if he turns out not to be a scorer at all. Just wish like heck he'd been eligible this year.
First of all, I hope Liam is okay for his own personal life. As far as hoops goes, I like the fact that even as a tall player he needed coordination and stamina to play lacrosse and hockey. A seven footer who can run the court, clog the middle and rebound would be a huge bonus. He has three more years to work on his offense!
In addition to McMorrow, I hope E-Will can be that other threatening shot blocker.
Lets keep our expectations a bit more modest for Liam at this point.
McIlvaine - awkward as he seemed at times - was a top 50 recruit on the way in who put up 21, 11 and 6 in HS while shooting almost 70% from the floor and ended up the NCAA defensive player of the year before heading off to the NBA.
My point, let's just hope the kid can get healthy, stay that way and learn every year. Perhaps, Amal the "A Train" McCaskill would be a more likely model. Amal went from recruit no one ever heard of who came along with Will Gates to starter on a Sweet 16 team who ended up solid enough on D and the glass to hang earn shots and eventually hang on with several pro teams for few years.
If Liam turns out to be the next A Train and the rest of Buzz's recruits live up to their billing, we'll be pretty good.
Assuming he is healthy, which is the main concern right now, I think Liam will produce. If he is up to it physically, I definitely see him as our starting center from the get-go. He is big, athletic, and coordinated in the post. I would expect like 6-8 rebounds as said before and maybe a block or 2 and then 4-6 points. I could see him scoring like 10-15 some games though.
I am going to make a prediction on who our starting center will be based on the type of offense Buzz used this year. He likes to have players drive to the basket. It sounds like most of Buzz's incoming recruits can take the ball to the basket, so I am expecting him to play the same style next year. Otule is a low post center who I like because he actively calls for the ball on offense. However, this type of center will cause the defenses to collapse, which closes off the lane for drives so he does not fit Buzz's style of play. After attending the final four and watching Suton, who could shoot the three point shot it occurred to me that that type of center would keep the lane open for the other players to drive to the basket. As far as I know McMorrow does not have an outside game. Based on my belief that Buzz wants an open lane which will be helped by a center who can shoot from the outside, I am predicting that our starting center will be Roseboro.
Quote from: bilsu on April 12, 2009, 11:03:45 PM
I am going to make a prediction on who our starting center will be based on the type of offense Buzz used this year. He likes to have players drive to the basket. It sounds like most of Buzz's incoming recruits can take the ball to the basket, so I am expecting him to play the same style next year. Otule is a low post center who I like because he actively calls for the ball on offense. However, this type of center will cause the defenses to collapse, which closes off the lane for drives so he does not fit Buzz's style of play. After attending the final four and watching Suton, who could shoot the three point shot it occurred to me that that type of center would keep the lane open for the other players to drive to the basket. As far as I know McMorrow does not have an outside game. Based on my belief that Buzz wants an open lane which will be helped by a center who can shoot from the outside, I am predicting that our starting center will be Roseboro.
Are we still talking about Brett Roseboro?
If Brett Roseboro is our starting center next year I fear we are in trouble. He is coming from a league that produces virtually no Division I talent. I hope I am wrong, but I think there's a much better chance of Brett redshirting than there is of him starting. If Liam is healthy, I think he'll start; if not, Otule.
Quote from: ecompt on April 13, 2009, 09:40:10 AM
If Brett Roseboro is our starting center next year I fear we are in trouble. He is coming from a league that produces virtually no Division I talent. I hope I am wrong, but I think there's a much better chance of Brett redshirting than there is of him starting. If Liam is healthy, I think he'll start; if not, Otule.
Agreed. Also, the coaches have describe Brett as a 4 and a face-the-basket kind of player.
Quote from: Nukem2 on April 13, 2009, 10:00:45 AM
Agreed. Also, the coaches have describe Brett as a 4 and a face-the-basket kind of player.
I have a feeling he's going to be a face-both-baskets type of player, meaning he'll be watching most games from the bench. Sorry, I just don't see him playing more than 8 minutes a game even 3-4 years from now. I'll be the first to eat crow if that doesn't happen, but he doesn't seem like a Big East player to me, especially with the guys he'll be competing with for PT.
If Liam can give a reasonable Amal McCaskill impression, I'd be very happy. A few post up moves, play good D and board...that's all I ask. I completely expect Roseboro to be redshirted, I think he can be good with some work. And OTule I think will make a good sub, but he also needs some work.
I don't think that Roseboro would for sure be redshirted. I think it would depend on 2 things. It long been speculated will bring in another PF/C recruit. They would not redshirt both guys so I would guess this would come down to who could contribute more, and who's spot they took. The 2nd would be if we have a 13 man roster. If we only have 11 or 12 then he might not as well.
Quote from: ecompt on April 13, 2009, 09:40:10 AM
If Brett Roseboro is our starting center next year I fear we are in trouble. He is coming from a league that produces virtually no Division I talent. I hope I am wrong, but I think there's a much better chance of Brett redshirting than there is of him starting. If Liam is healthy, I think he'll start; if not, Otule.
I do not think I am off base in predicting that a player rated 89 by ESPN recruiting in the 2009 class can beat out Otule who was rated as a 40 in the 2008 recruiting class. Otule certainly was not utilized by Buzz this year and is known to have some kind of vision problem. McMorrow was also was rated a 40 by ESPN in the 2008 recruiting class, his development has been set back by a foot fracture and now there is another potential health problem. Remember he did not play high school ball at all. It seems pretty obvious to me coming out of high school Roseboro is a better player than either Otule or McMorrow coming out of high school. I do not know how much McMorrow has advanced so it is hard to make a prediction on him. I do not know how good Roseborro is, but the fact is he does not have to beat out an experienced or highly rated player for the center position. the other option is that Buzz goes small at the center position.
Quote from: bilsu on April 13, 2009, 07:03:25 PM
I do not think I am off base in predicting that a player rated 89 by ESPN recruiting in the 2009 class can beat out Otule who was rated as a 40 in the 2008 recruiting class. Otule certainly was not utilized by Buzz this year and is known to have some kind of vision problem. McMorrow was also was rated a 40 by ESPN in the 2008 recruiting class, his development has been set back by a foot fracture and now there is another potential health problem. Remember he did not play high school ball at all. It seems pretty obvious to me coming out of high school Roseboro is a better player than either Otule or McMorrow coming out of high school. I do not know how much McMorrow has advanced so it is hard to make a prediction on him. I do not know how good Roseborro is, but the fact is he does not have to beat out an experienced or highly rated player for the center position. the other option is that Buzz goes small at the center position.
You mean 89 for his position, not overall. I haven't seen Roseborro ranked in the top 250.... ESPN has him ranked 91 for his position.
Brett Roseboro | PF
Hometown Quakertown, PA
High School Quakertown Community High School
Position rank Power Forward # 91
Height 6'10"
Weight 220 lbs
I really feel that Liam is our best shot at center next year. The way MU plays it is much more important to get defense from the 5 position rather than points. Having a 7 footer with with some coordination and a decent body (not a stick) would really help. If Liam clears his medical issues all indications are that he is that kind of player. One thing about Otule, he called for the ball and tried to score on offense. My fear is that his coordination is just not very good. (or at least it wasn't good last year). He was pretty brutal on defense. My hope is that he could be a serviceable back-up to Liam. I'm sorry but I don't have that much faith in Roseboro his first year. As I recall Otule had better senior stats. For big men college is such a huge adjustment that it takes someone really unique to come in an play right away (like Blair). If Liam doesn't get cleared to play I'm afraid its back to small ball only this time you don't have 3 great defensive perimeter players
Quote from: bilsu on April 13, 2009, 07:03:25 PM
I do not think I am off base in predicting that a player rated 89 by ESPN recruiting in the 2009 class can beat out Otule who was rated as a 40 in the 2008 recruiting class. Otule certainly was not utilized by Buzz this year and is known to have some kind of vision problem. McMorrow was also was rated a 40 by ESPN in the 2008 recruiting class, his development has been set back by a foot fracture and now there is another potential health problem. Remember he did not play high school ball at all. It seems pretty obvious to me coming out of high school Roseboro is a better player than either Otule or McMorrow coming out of high school. I do not know how much McMorrow has advanced so it is hard to make a prediction on him. I do not know how good Roseborro is, but the fact is he does not have to beat out an experienced or highly rated player for the center position. the other option is that Buzz goes small at the center position.
If you took a little time to look at ESPN's rankings instead of spouting off about how the players were rated, you would realize that a rating of 40 means that ESPN hasn't actually seen the person play. ESPN, unlike some of the other sites refuses to rank players just on hype, and only goes off what they see. So they did not actually see Otule play in high school or McMorrow play in Canada and they have not given grades to either one of them.
To expect more from Roseboro based on a rating system that you don't actually understand is way off base.
Quote from: bilsu on April 12, 2009, 11:03:45 PM
I am going to make a prediction on who our starting center will be based on the type of offense Buzz used this year. He likes to have players drive to the basket. It sounds like most of Buzz's incoming recruits can take the ball to the basket, so I am expecting him to play the same style next year. Otule is a low post center who I like because he actively calls for the ball on offense. However, this type of center will cause the defenses to collapse, which closes off the lane for drives so he does not fit Buzz's style of play. After attending the final four and watching Suton, who could shoot the three point shot it occurred to me that that type of center would keep the lane open for the other players to drive to the basket. As far as I know McMorrow does not have an outside game. Based on my belief that Buzz wants an open lane which will be helped by a center who can shoot from the outside, I am predicting that our starting center will be Roseboro.
I thought Roseboro used to catch for the Dodgers?
Quote from: bma725 on April 13, 2009, 08:03:46 PM
If you took a little time to look at ESPN's rankings instead of spouting off about how the players were rated, you would realize that a rating of 40 means that ESPN hasn't actually seen the person play. ESPN, unlike some of the other sites refuses to rank players just on hype, and only goes off what they see. So they did not actually see Otule play in high school or McMorrow play in Canada and they have not given grades to either one of them.
To expect more from Roseboro based on a rating system that you don't actually understand is way off base.
+1
Also these are young players and the rankings/numbers are not an exact science. Some players work harder and develop faster than others!
People are dreaming if they think Liam is going to average 6-8 rebounds and 1.5 blocks a game.
Hayward was a rebounding machine this year and played more minutes then LM will get close to next year and he avergaged about 8 boards a game.
I think the best we can hope for is Liam splits time with Otule and gets 10 minutes a game.
I'm sure we will see a bunch of 3 forward lineups next year with Hayward or someone else seeing time at the 5.
If McMorrow is healthy enough to continue his career I don't think we will see a a significant contribution from him until at least his junior year.
Think Ooze as a sophomore or Thabeet as a freshman. The athleticism is there. The instincts have to be developed.
Quote from: nycwarrior on April 12, 2009, 09:51:18 PM
Lets keep our expectations a bit more modest for Liam at this point.
McIlvaine - awkward as he seemed at times - was a top 50 recruit on the way in who put up 21, 11 and 6 in HS while shooting almost 70% from the floor and ended up the NCAA defensive player of the year before heading off to the NBA.
My point, let's just hope the kid can get healthy, stay that way and learn every year. Perhaps, Amal the "A Train" McCaskill would be a more likely model. Amal went from recruit no one ever heard of who came along with Will Gates to starter on a Sweet 16 team who ended up solid enough on D and the glass to hang earn shots and eventually hang on with several pro teams for few years.
If Liam turns out to be the next A Train and the rest of Buzz's recruits live up to their billing, we'll be pretty good.
Minor edit: McCaskill did not start on the Sweet 16 team, he was the 6th man, much like the role Terry Sanders played on the Final Four team. The starters in 1994 were Miller, Logterman, Eford, Key, and McIllvaine.
But excellent comparison of Amal's development to Liam's potential.
Quote from: NotAnAlum on April 13, 2009, 08:00:22 PM
I really feel that Liam is our best shot at center next year. The way MU plays it is much more important to get defense from the 5 position rather than points. Having a 7 footer with with some coordination and a decent body (not a stick) would really help. If Liam clears his medical issues all indications are that he is that kind of player. One thing about Otule, he called for the ball and tried to score on offense. My fear is that his coordination is just not very good. (or at least it wasn't good last year). He was pretty brutal on defense. My hope is that he could be a serviceable back-up to Liam. I'm sorry but I don't have that much faith in Roseboro his first year. As I recall Otule had better senior stats. For big men college is such a huge adjustment that it takes someone really unique to come in an play right away (like Blair). If Liam doesn't get cleared to play I'm afraid its back to small ball only this time you don't have 3 great defensive perimeter players
What evidence do you have that McMorrow can play defense? We all know he is tall and very agile. We also know that he has very little experience. This could result in him being a foul a minute guy. We have more bodies at center this year, but the fact is we do not know if any of these guys would beat out Burke, if he was returning. Certainly Otule would not beat out Burke. You guys seem convinced that Roseborro will redshirt next year, so he would not have beat out Burke. That leaves Liam who I have high hopes for, but there is no guarantee that he will be any good this year. I still believe, if he stays heallthy, by the time he is a senior he will be a real stud. Now we should move on to the point guard postion where we can have an equally lively debate on who will start thereand how good they will be. That is the best thing about this off season is that we realy do not know who will start. We know Hayward will start, but will it be at center, power forward, small forward, two guard or no actual position as the 2 through 5 spots could be interchangable on next years team. My prediction is that Buyckes starts at point guard. Let the debate begin.
bilsu, we don't KNOW anything for sure. All we can do is infer from statements of others. Buzz said in October that if Liam was eligible in 08-09, he would have contributed. Buzz said right before the tourney that Liam was dominating Burke and Otule and Jerel was picking Liam to be his teammate in two on two drills/games. Dominating Burke and Otule is admittedly not that high a threshold. IF HE COMES BACK, I expect he will start at the 5. Of course he will struggle at times. But 7'+ and athletic is a good place to start.
Quote from: MuMark on April 13, 2009, 10:30:18 PM
People are dreaming if they think Liam is going to average 6-8 rebounds and 1.5 blocks a game.
Hayward was a rebounding machine this year and played more minutes then LM will get close to next year and he avergaged about 8 boards a game.
Liam also has about an 8" height advantage over Lazar. That tends to help a little in rebounding.
Bilsu - What evidence do you have that Roseboro can play at all. His stats were similar to Otule's out of HS even though it could be argued that Otule played in a tougher league. We've seen Otule with about half a season of COLLEGE coaching under his belt. To put it kindly he is not a Big East starter at this point in his development. We've heard reports of Liam practicing against college players with half a season of college coaching AND a full season of the Canadian equivalent of NAIA playing under his belt. Those reports claim that he is good defensively and has a ways to go offensively. Sorry but based on the evidence we have to work with I'm much more enthused about starting a guy who is, age wise, a college junior over a guy who is likely to play like Otule did as a freshman last November.
I hate to be brutally honest and I hope I'm wrong but realistically ....
McMorrow and Outle are ahead of him. His sophomore year Montrele Clark will be ahead. And if MU recruits over him this summer, he slides further down the list.
So, Roseboro rides the pines and gets little playing time, like Outle. Like Scott C he transfers to another school with less competition like an A-10 school, where he can play.
Again, I hope he proves me wrong but I'm not holding my breath.
Actually he ia about 6 inches taller then Lazar but who is counting.
Being tall didn't didn't help our last project center average 6-8 rebounds a game in his first year. Barro averaged 2.3 as a Frosh and 2.8 as Sophmore. Kinsellla was tall too. How many years did he average 6-8 rebounds? How about Grimm?
This kid has played organized basketball for 1 year.
I'll be very happy if he shows enough to get on the court for 10 minutes a game next year.
To expect more is just silly.
Thabeet was a top 100 recruit who had played organized basketball for 4 years. He also is 3 inches taller then Liam.
He averaged 6 points and 6 rebounds as a frosh.
Not taking either side of this argument. But from what I understand Lazar is listed at 6'6" and is actually about 6'5". While Liam is listed at 7'0" and from what I hear he has been growing.
Quote from: MuMark on April 14, 2009, 10:02:13 AM
Kinsellla was tall too. How many years did he average 6-8 rebounds? How about Grimm?
Except it's clear to me that Liam is way ahead of them as far as intagibles, coordination and athleticism go.
Lets just hope that Liam's health situation clears up so he can continue to play basketball.
I agree he is ahead of both Grimm and Kinsella athletically but he still has to learn the game and produce enough to stay on the court.
He also missed this entire year of practice/development which would have been huge for him.
Big men take time to develope and many never do.
Putting any kind of expectations on Liam at this point is just pure guess work.