I am almost afraid of starting this thread because of where it may lead but ...
There has been plenty of discussion about MU's hiring process last year on this board. Watching Arizona getting "used" by coaches that may only be working a better contract at their current school makes me feel better about our process. If the members in the know are correct, then MU did some background work with phone calls before deciding. Flying these guys to Arizona sure looks like no one wants the job. I think that is more damaging than a few phone calls and then hire the next on the list. And then there is the whole loss of recruits while it gets sorted out but that is for another time.
I think people tend to make a bigger deal out of the impact of coaches turning down schools in the long run. Yes in the short run it does look bad for a school like Arizona not to be able to steal whatever coach they please. But in the long run the important thing is to get the right coach and the right fit, not the first big name who will jump at the job (e.g Billy Gillespie). Recruits still know about Arizona, they still have a huge fan base and they are still a basketball first school. Not to mention the beautiful co-eds which would make recruiting a breeze in my mind.
True, but the more names that are run through the media, the harder it is to get the guy with the proper "fit". Keeping a low profile in the process is probably the best for most schools.
Amen to that brother!! and while I agree a "good fit" is necessary for long term survival, it is clear that a public refusal by a multitude of coaches cannot bode well for their selection process. I think the situation with KO and the current ties to Lute Olsen have to had impacted this process.
On a side note I couldn't be happier with Buzz.....if you watched the end of season presser you would realize the guy is really coming into his own.
I am not sure if MU's hiring process was good or not, but as the Arizona and Memphis hiring process continues to swing and miss badly, I am starting to think more and more that Cottingham probably knew what he was doing. Some might not have liked who he hired or that it was so quick but it is looking like he had a reasonable list of coaches who would be a good fit for what he wanted at MU and he went out and got it done quickly.
What I can't believe is that Arizona had practically all year to find a good coach who would be a good fit for the program and they still can't hire anyone.
Quote from: mufanatic on April 06, 2009, 09:33:05 AM
I am starting to think more and more that Cottingham probably knew what he was doing.
Cottingham had nothing to do with it. Buzz was interviewed by our biggest booster and was endorsed by that booster's pal Crean.
There was no process.
Quote from: radome on April 06, 2009, 08:06:38 AM
I am almost afraid of starting this thread because of where it may lead but ...
There has been plenty of discussion about MU's hiring process last year on this board. Watching Arizona getting "used" by coaches that may only be working a better contract at their current school makes me feel better about our process. If the members in the know are correct, then MU did some background work with phone calls before deciding. Flying these guys to Arizona sure looks like no one wants the job. I think that is more damaging than a few phone calls and then hire the next on the list. And then there is the whole loss of recruits while it gets sorted out but that is for another time.
Getting "used"? No one will remember that if they land a big time coach. That's just blather for internet goofballs. UA has their own set of issues right now because they haven't recruited anyone in 3 years and they're replacing a legend (does Lute Olson count as a legend?) Memphis is in their own unique situation....crap conference, major coach just leaves (who wants to follow that?). UA
If they land the right guy, then they did the right thing. The reverse is hiring someone quickly and then having to do the whole thing all over again in a few years.
Say Josh Pastner gets the UA job. He might, but UA knows he's their backup and will be their backup for weeks if they wish. He isn't going anywhere. In the meantime, they are showing their alums and fanbase they are willing to take a shot with some major coaches. If they get Pastner, then at least they show the attempt was made over the long haul to get someone with some fire power.
Memphis....I have no idea what they will do. Floyd seemed the obvious choice but when he pulled out, they have problems. And since that's the situation they are in, better off taking their time to hire someone.
Don't be surprised if someone like Leonard Hamilton takes the Memphis job
Quote from: PuertoRicanNightmare on April 06, 2009, 09:41:18 AM
Cottingham had nothing to do with it. Buzz was interviewed by our biggest booster and was endorsed by that booster's pal Crean.
There was no process.
Absolutely 100% fact.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on April 06, 2009, 09:42:32 AM
Getting "used"? No one will remember that if they land a big time coach. That's just blather for internet goofballs. UA has their own set of issues right now because they haven't recruited anyone in 3 years. Memphis is in their own unique situation....crap conference, major coach just leaves (who wants to follow that?).
If they land the right guy, then they did the right thing. The reverse is hiring someone quickly and then having to do the whole thing all over again in a few years.
Is Jim Boylen a big name coach? If hired, he'll get a lot of play as being part of the Izzo coaching tree. I would say he is a fit for where he is at Utah. AZ may be a stretch. Good luck. Most coaching hires, other than the Self's and Ray Williams and Pitiinos and Caliparis, are gambles. Look at UVA and GA bringing guys from across the country. Good coaches, but will they fit their new far away homes?
Quote from: 4everwarriors on April 06, 2009, 10:07:50 AM
Absolutely 100% fact.
And, can either of you back that up 100% here? I doubt it. Stuff of rumor mills.
Quote from: PuertoRicanNightmare on April 06, 2009, 09:41:18 AM
Cottingham had nothing to do with it. Buzz was interviewed by our biggest booster and was endorsed by that booster's pal Crean.
There was no process.
Which basically follows with your long-term narrative on this board that Cottingham is a complete pud and the entire Marquette administration is a bunch of incompetent dolts.
Quote from: Tom Crean's Tanning Bed on April 06, 2009, 10:38:24 AM
Which basically follows with your long-term narrative on this board that Cottingham is a complete pud and the entire Marquette administration is a bunch of incompetent dolts.
Don't forget that Tom Crean is evil.
Quote from: Nukem2 on April 06, 2009, 10:09:38 AM
And, can either of you back that up 100% here? I doubt it. Stuff of rumor mills.
In the end Strong pushed for Crean's endorsed ass't coach. End of story.
Quote from: 4everwarriors on April 06, 2009, 10:47:48 AM
In the end Strong pushed for Crean's endorsed ass't coach. End of story.
Sometimes I may be a bit naive. I hope that this isn't *the* reason, just part of the story. Even for our greatest booster, that is a lot of power.
Quote from: Nukem2 on April 06, 2009, 10:09:38 AM
And, can either of you back that up 100% here? I doubt it. Stuff of rumor mills.
Is the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel a rumor mill?
Quote from: PuertoRicanNightmare on April 06, 2009, 11:35:25 AM
Is the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel a rumor mill?
C'mon. How do you know Strong wasn't just rubber stamping Cottingham's suggested hire? You don't, and neither do I.
It's ok to admit that nobody outside of the MU administration really knows how the process went.
You or I don't know everything. Let's not pretend like we do.
Quote from: PuertoRicanNightmare on April 06, 2009, 11:35:25 AM
Is the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel a rumor mill?
And......, you have a link to that....???? :o
Which is why our biggest booster was flying out to washington to try to convince T.Bennett to come to MU after he had already turned down Toby.
Quote from: Nukem2 on April 06, 2009, 12:03:06 PM
And......, you have a link to that....???? :o
http://www.jsonline.com/sports/goldeneagles/29460309.html
Well, as much as I hate to admit it, PRN was partially right, as the JS article does refer to this:
It is the measure of Strong's influence with the program that Strong was the only booster who had a private interview with Williams only days before Williams' hiring was announced.On the other hand, though, I wouldn't say either that this article is a tacit admission that Dick Strong basically made the decision instead of Cottingham and Fr. Wild in the end.
Quote from: Tom Crean's Tanning Bed on April 06, 2009, 01:10:25 PM
On the other hand, though, I wouldn't say either that this article is a tacit admission that Dick Strong basically made the decision instead of Cottingham and Fr. Wild in the end.
Bingo.
We don't know what went on. Might have been a "rubber stamp", might have been a courtesy to Mr. Strong, might have been a lot of things.
Saying Strong was the primary decision maker is awfully presumptuous.
Quote from: Tom Crean's Tanning Bed on April 06, 2009, 01:10:25 PM
http://www.jsonline.com/sports/goldeneagles/29460309.html
Well, as much as I hate to admit it, PRN was partially right, as the JS article does refer to this:
It is the measure of Strong's influence with the program that Strong was the only booster who had a private interview with Williams only days before Williams' hiring was announced.
On the other hand, though, I wouldn't say either that this article is a tacit admission that Dick Strong basically made the decision instead of Cottingham and Fr. Wild in the end.
Sounds more like an accomodation to a guy who paid a lot of TC's salary. Nothing in this comment to infer that he was the guy who made the decision.
You guys are hilarious.
Do you think Marquette would hire a guy completely unqualified to coach gym at Brown Deer Junior High unless they were given no choice? After a season of odd behavior and head shaking sound bytes, you honestly believe Buzz Williams "blew them away" during the interview process? Seriously!? Milwaukee County wouldn't hire him as dog catcher!
Get your heads out of your ass*s!
Quote from: PuertoRicanNightmare on April 06, 2009, 02:21:34 PM
You guys are hilarious.
Do you think Marquette would hire a guy completely unqualified to coach gym at Brown Deer Junior High unless they were given no choice? After a season of odd behavior and head shaking sound bytes, you honestly believe Buzz Williams "blew them away" during the interview process? Seriously!? Milwaukee County wouldn't hire him as dog catcher!
Get your heads out of your ass*s!
Bring back Mike Deane! He drank beers with me at Turners! ::)
Quote from: PuertoRicanNightmare on April 06, 2009, 02:21:34 PM
You guys are hilarious.
Do you think Marquette would hire a guy completely unqualified to coach gym at Brown Deer Junior High unless they were given no choice? After a season of odd behavior and head shaking sound bytes, you honestly believe Buzz Williams "blew them away" during the interview process? Seriously!? Milwaukee County wouldn't hire him as dog catcher!
Get your heads out of your ass*s!
And, Dick Strong is qualified to assess a basketball HC candidate better than everyone else...? In any event, it appears that a good decision was made in a relatively short period. Get your head out of your arse. Again, where is your proof. You are guessing and blowing in the wind again.
Quote from: PuertoRicanNightmare on April 06, 2009, 02:21:34 PM
You guys are hilarious.
Do you think Marquette would hire a guy completely unqualified to coach gym at Brown Deer Junior High unless they were given no choice? After a season of odd behavior and head shaking sound bytes, you honestly believe Buzz Williams "blew them away" during the interview process? Seriously!? Milwaukee County wouldn't hire him as dog catcher!
Get your heads out of your ass*s!
He's still better than Crean. Right?
Quote from: 2002mualum on April 06, 2009, 03:00:18 PM
He's still better than Crean. Right?
No question about it. Sister Maria would have been better than Crean.
Now SHE was a good representative of the university!!
Quote from: Nukem2 on April 06, 2009, 10:08:23 AM
Is Jim Boylen a big name coach? If hired, he'll get a lot of play as being part of the Izzo coaching tree. I would say he is a fit for where he is at Utah. AZ may be a stretch. Good luck. Most coaching hires, other than the Self's and Ray Williams and Pitiinos and Caliparis, are gambles. Look at UVA and GA bringing guys from across the country. Good coaches, but will they fit their new far away homes?
Looks like Miller took it. A little persuasion and PUSH by the administration at UA can get things done. Instead of giving up in 48 hours.
Quote from: radome on April 06, 2009, 08:06:38 AM
I am almost afraid of starting this thread because of where it may lead but ...
There has been plenty of discussion about MU's hiring process last year on this board. Watching Arizona getting "used" by coaches that may only be working a better contract at their current school makes me feel better about our process. If the members in the know are correct, then MU did some background work with phone calls before deciding. Flying these guys to Arizona sure looks like no one wants the job. I think that is more damaging than a few phone calls and then hire the next on the list. And then there is the whole loss of recruits while it gets sorted out but that is for another time.
If they did get Miller, I'd say they weren't used at all. Would you? Patience and not rushing seems to have paid off quite well for them if they get Miller. And the fact that they were turned down by a few people will be forgotten very quickly.
Deane rules! Bought me beers too at a high school all star game in Indiana - he was sitting with David Digg's dad watching the Ohio team play. Took my name and address and followed it up with a few hats in the mail.
Quote from: PuertoRicanNightmare on April 06, 2009, 03:39:37 PM
No question about it. Sister Maria would have been better than Crean.
Now SHE was a good representative of the university!!
Wow, I haven't heard that name in 20 years. She should have been a varsity high school coach (I believe she was for some time) because she had no business coaching at the DI level.
MU had a process last year? For 363 days I thought we just picked DS's pick. Would take AZ process or the MU process anyday of the week. Who you ultimately get is only part of the process and I believe MU was caught with no plan in place.
Quote from: PuertoRicanNightmare on April 06, 2009, 03:39:37 PM
No question about it. Sister Maria would have been better than Crean.
Now SHE was a good representative of the university!!
Fine.
I guess my point is, you found reasons to hate Crean, and it took you a little while, but you've found reasons to hate Buzz too.
I bet you'll rip the next coach as well.
I think you fall into the certain percentage of "sports fans" who aren't happy being happy. You are always ready to blast the front office, the administration and/or the coach for "screwing up".
I don't think you will ever be "happy" with MU basketball. You hate the logo, the mascot, the color gold, Nike, Tom Crean, Bill Cords, Steve Cottingham, Buzz Williams, etc. etc.
MU could win 10 national titles in a row, and you still wouldn't be happy with the program.
ENJOY!
Coaching salaries.
$2.4 million for Miller
Insane amount for Donovan and Coach Cal
MU is in the $1.3M range or so. Wondering how much MU would be willing to go?
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on April 06, 2009, 04:26:53 PM
Coaching salaries.
$2.4 million for Miller
Insane amount for Donovan and Coach Cal
MU is in the $1.3M range or so. Wondering how much MU would be willing to go?
Insane? That's what it takes to pee with the big boys.
Quote from: 4everwarriors on April 06, 2009, 04:34:17 PM
Insane? That's what it takes to pee with the big boys.
I say insane because it's harder and harder to quantify the ROI on it at this stage. For a school like MU, it becomes REALLY difficult. I was reading this morning in the Sports Business Journal about some of the deals universities have on their marketing rights. As an example, Wisconsin has a $76 million dollar rights deal with Leerfield over 12 years. That's a check for $6.33million per year they get. Plus football income, etc.
MU and other schools like it are going to continue to have harder and harder times paying for salaries like this because they don't have the income on their sports to justify it. MU was near the top in coaching salaries a few years ago and has already been passed by from a number of schools.
If MU didn't have Dick Strong, would they even be in the game?
This is why the football argument is somewhat relevant. In many ways it costs too much to start one but in many other ways without it, you eventually will be squeezed out entirely down the road.
Chicos,
You are absolutely right. The economic model of D1 college football/basketball is trending towards the baseball model. The Yankees and Red Sox of college sports (or Angels!) will end up being the BCS football schools.
Quote from: 2002mualum on April 06, 2009, 04:22:44 PM
Fine.
I guess my point is, you found reasons to hate Crean, and it took you a little while, but you've found reasons to hate Buzz too.
I don't hate Buzz at all. I just think he's completely unqualified to be our coach. He seems like a nice enough guy.
I will admit that, on the surface, I'm not crazy about what seems to be a shift in our philosophy on the student athletes that make up our team. But a lot of that was covered up in the past so I'm not so sure.
And I absolutely do not hate Bill Cords. Not in the least. Love him. I don't really have strong feelings on Cottingham.
But keep on misinterpreting things...it's what you do best!
Quote from: PuertoRicanNightmare on April 06, 2009, 05:34:32 PM
I don't hate Buzz at all. I just think he's completely unqualified to be our coach.
Says the guy who wanted Chris Lowery.
Saluki Nation would be besides themselves wth joy if MU had taken him off their hands.
Quote from: PuertoRicanNightmare on April 06, 2009, 05:34:32 PM
I don't hate Buzz at all. I just think he's completely unqualified to be our coach. He seems like a nice enough guy.
I will admit that, on the surface, I'm not crazy about what seems to be a shift in our philosophy on the student athletes that make up our team. But a lot of that was covered up in the past so I'm not so sure.
And I absolutely do not hate Bill Cords. Not in the least. Love him. I don't really have strong feelings on Cottingham.
But keep on misinterpreting things...it's what you do best!
Never mind.
Enjoy Buzz Williams. He's going to be the coach for a while, whether any of us like it or not.
Based on what I've seen so far I think Buzz is a heck of a coach. Granted, the jury will be out for at least another couple years but right now he's looking good. In fact, I would much prefer Buzz and his recruiting prowess over Tony Bennett; who a lot of people around here thinks is a boy genius but hasn't been able to pull in any top recruits since his pops left. Right now I'd also take Buzz over guys like Chris Lowery, Bryce Drew, Wojo, and Brad Brownell. I thought (and still think) Anthony Grant and Sean Miller prolly would have been better hires but they either didn't want the job (Miller) or MU didn't seem too interested (Grant).
With that being said, I don't care how long or how short the process was. I don't care who was involved in the process. All I care is about the end result of the process, which ended up being Buzz.
Some of the people here wanted the coaching search to be handled a lot different but you have to remember that a "great process" that yields a shitty choice is a hell of a lot worse than a "bad process" that yields a good choice.
Quote from: jmayer1 on April 06, 2009, 08:37:55 PM
Some of the people here wanted the coaching search to be handled a lot different but you have to remember that a "great process" that yields a crapty choice is a hell of a lot worse than a "bad process" that yields a good choice.
A longer process would have yielded the same hire and allowed us to take a few more chances as some big guns....if it doesn't work out, Brent is still there.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on April 06, 2009, 09:43:03 PM
A longer process would have yielded the same hire and allowed us to take a few more chances as some big guns....if it doesn't work out, Brent is still there.
Yes, that's true, but what "big guns" did you want MU to go after? I think Miller made it pretty clear he didn't want to come to MU. What guys should MU have gone after that weren't pipe dreams?