In a business meeting last week I was told that MU was the last team to turn down an NCAA bid.
It was 1970. MU elected to go to the NIT and won it. Back then the NIT was at least equal to the NCAA tourney, if not more prestigious.
Can anyone confirm and/or enlighten?
That's is true. Marquette was the number 1 team in the country, but when it came time for the NCAA tourny, they gave Kentucky the 1 in the midwest, so Al decided to go to the NIT. After that happend it became mandatory to go to the NCAA tourny over the NIT.. NIT still wasn't as prestigious at the time, but the gap was a lot closer...
Quote from: AnotherMU84 on April 04, 2009, 08:25:55 PM
In a business meeting last week I was told that MU was the last team to turn down an NCAA bid.
It was 1970. MU elected to go to the NIT and won it. Back then the NIT was at least equal to the NCAA tourney, if not more prestigious.
Can anyone confirm and/or enlighten?
Louisville in 1987 was the last team to turn down the NCAA. They won the Metro Conference and were offered both NCAA and NIT bids, but turned both down. I forget why it happened exactly, but Crum had his reasons. Now, you are not allowed to turn down a bid.
In 1970 the NIT was still good, but not as good as years earlier when it was a better tournament than the NCAA.
I don't remeber that Louisville situation at all. I wonder what Crum's reasons were???
Yes and no. Al was PO'd when the NCAA wanted to ship MU to the Midwest region instead of our natural and closer Mideast region. At the time, MU was an independent along with ND, DePaul, and several others. I believe the NCAA Tourney included 32 teams and that year's Midwest region was in New Mexico or Texas. With Buck Raynor's blessings, Al announced the Warriors would spurn the NCAA and accept the NIT invitation. All NIT games were played at The Garden in NY. 16 teams were included. MU defeated UMass with Dr. J, Providence with Jimmy Walker, LSU and Pistol Pete before beating St. John's and Lou Carneseca for the championship. Dean Meminger was named tournament MVP. BTW, Army coached by Bobby Knight lost in the semis to St. John's. Oh, and I was there for both the LSU and St. John's games.
As for prestige, the NCAA had far more than the NIT and the monetary payouts for the NIT were inferior to the NCAA's. But, Al made his point and walked the walk.
Quote from: AnotherMU84 on April 04, 2009, 08:25:55 PM
In a business meeting last week I was told that MU was the last team to turn down an NCAA bid.
It was 1970. MU elected to go to the NIT and won it. Back then the NIT was at least equal to the NCAA tourney, if not more prestigious.
Can anyone confirm and/or enlighten?
The NIT was a very good tournament in 1970. It was not, however, the equal to the NCAA. Maybe in the 40's, but not in 1970.
Quote from: schubert33 on April 04, 2009, 08:34:56 PM
That's is true. Marquette was the number 1 team in the country, but when it came time for the NCAA tourny, they gave Kentucky the 1 in the midwest, so Al decided to go to the NIT. After that happend it became mandatory to go to the NCAA tourny over the NIT.. NIT still wasn't as prestigious at the time, but the gap was a lot closer...
Marquette was not #1 in the country. We were in the top 10 though, and when the NCAA decided to ship us out of our regional Al took us to New York. Because of this the NCAA mandated that henceforth any member institution was required to play in the NCAA tournament if invited.
Quote from: bma725 on April 04, 2009, 08:38:05 PM
Louisville in 1987 was the last team to turn down the NCAA. They won the Metro Conference and were offered both NCAA and NIT bids, but turned both down. I forget why it happened exactly, but Crum had his reasons. Now, you are not allowed to turn down a bid.
In 1970 the NIT was still good, but not as good as years earlier when it was a better tournament than the NCAA.
Are you sure BMA? I'm almost sure MU was the last team. Louisville finished 18-14 that year. This NY Times article says they didn't make it but there is no mention of them declining a bid
http://www.nytimes.com/1987/11/15/sports/college-basketball-87-88-syracuse-is-tough-again-knight-is-tough-as-always.html?sec=&spon=&pagewanted=all
You may be right, I just can't find anything the suggests Louisville declined a NCAA bid. The last team I can find on record is MU. In the 1940's, 50's, 60's there were many teams that turned down the NCAA including Kentucky.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on April 04, 2009, 09:24:55 PM
Marquette was not #1 in the country. We were in the top 10 though, and when the NCAA decided to ship us out of our regional Al took us to New York. Because of this the NCAA mandated that henceforth any member institution was required to play in the NCAA tournament if invited.
Correct, MU was #8 in the country.
Quote from: 4everwarriors on April 04, 2009, 08:52:08 PM
Yes and no. Al was PO'd when the NCAA wanted to ship MU to the Midwest region instead of our natural and closer Mideast region. At the time, MU was an independent along with ND, DePaul, and several others. I believe the NCAA Tourney included 32 teams and that year's Midwest region was in New Mexico or Texas. With Buck Raynor's blessings, Al announced the Warriors would spurn the NCAA and accept the NIT invitation. All NIT games were played at The Garden in NY. 16 teams were included. MU defeated UMass with Dr. J, Providence with Jimmy Walker, LSU and Pistol Pete before beating St. John's and Lou Carneseca for the championship. Dean Meminger was named tournament MVP. BTW, Army coached by Bobby Knight lost in the semis to St. John's. Oh, and I was there for both the LSU and St. John's games.
As for prestige, the NCAA had far more than the NIT and the monetary payouts for the NIT were inferior to the NCAA's. But, Al made his point and walked the walk.
Right about our NIT run except for beating Jimmy Walker and Providence. MU beat them in their run to the NIT title game in 1967, where we lost to Walt "Clyde" Frasier and the SIU Salukis.
We were the last team to turn down a bid; the NCAA made a rule that summer that said no team could ever reject a bid again. The year we turned it down the Mideast bids went to Notre Dame (who beat us in OT there) and Jacksonville (who had played virtually nobody but did have Artis Gilmore and Pembroke Burrows). The NCAA, led by Adolph Rupp, who detested Al, shifted us to the Midwest (in Oklahoma City, I believe) and Al said eff ewe.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on April 04, 2009, 09:36:16 PM
Are you sure BMA? I'm almost sure MU was the last team. Louisville finished 18-14 that year. This NY Times article says they didn't make it but there is no mention of them declining a bid
http://www.nytimes.com/1987/11/15/sports/college-basketball-87-88-syracuse-is-tough-again-knight-is-tough-as-always.html?sec=&spon=&pagewanted=all
You may be right, I just can't find anything the suggests Louisville declined a NCAA bid. The last team I can find on record is MU. In the 1940's, 50's, 60's there were many teams that turned down the NCAA including Kentucky.
You may be right. I saw it in an article from one of the Kentucky papers when they were talking about how UK should turn down the NIT this year, where they mentioned that Louisville was the first team to turn down the NIT in 1987, the same year they turned down the NCAA. But I can't seem to find anything that backs that up.
U of L did not turn down the NC2As in 1987, but did turn down the NIT after not getting a bid at 18-14 as the defending champ.
So, the trivia question is correct .... MU is the last school to turn down an NCAA bid (in 1970)!
Quote from: AnotherMU84 on April 05, 2009, 08:38:21 AM
So, the trivia question is correct .... MU is the last school to turn down an NCAA bid (in 1970)!
Except for the part that in 1970 the NIT was as least equal to, if not more prestigious, to the NCAA.
Back in 1970 the NCAA only had 25 teams. Only one team per conference.
The Mideast gave byes to the Sweet Sixteen to Big Ten champ and the SEC champ. 7th ranked Iowa, with Fred Brown, won the Big Ten and Kentucky, behind Dan Issel, was ranked #1 and won the SEC.
Two first round games were played in Dayton with the winners advancing to play Iowa & Kentucky. Ohio Univ won the MAC and automatically got one of the bids. Western Kentucky won the Ohio Valley with a 22-2 record and got the second automatic spot.
That left two open spots for independents. The NCAA choose #4 Jacksonville featuring Artis Gilmore, and #9 Notre Dame with Austin Carr.
That left #8 Marquette as the third independent which meant they were given a bid to the Midwest Region in Fort Worth. Al thought Adolph Rupp was behind the NCAA keeping Marquette out of Kentucky's region. This coming one season after Marquette knocked Kentucky out of the tourney with a win in Madison.
In another note South Carolina won the ACC regular season and was ranked #3. They lost a slow down game in the ACC tourney to NC State 42-39 in double OT. Only the winner of the tourney got a NCAA bid.
At the time there was a NCAA rule that forbade a team hosting a NCAA tourney game (the 1970 Eastern Regional was held in Columbia, SC) from playing in the rival NIT. Which resulted in South Carolina not playing in either tourney. Shortly thereafter the Gamecocks left the ACC.