the University of Virginia
That should tell you a LOT about what he thought of Marquette.
Virginia has been in the dumps for quite some time, is in the ACC where they have been slaughtered. Had a chance to come back home to Wisconsin and coach for MU and wanted no part of it. Did he think the Big East was too difficult? Interesting to say the least. Or he just changed his mind and felt that he couldn't keep things going at Wazzu (tough place to recruit, too) so he's jumping while he can.
Wisconsin fans can't be thrilled with this as many feel he would be their next guy (obviously it could still happen).
I don't understand the prince in waiting attitude of UW and Bennett, wasn't there some hard feelings when Bennett senior left and Soderberg wasn't hired. I would think UW would hire the coach at UW Whitewater, D 3 experience seems to be there mantra.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 30, 2009, 04:49:49 PM
That should tell you a LOT about what he thought of Marquette.
Virginia has been in the dumps for quite some time, is in the ACC where they have been slaughtered. Had a chance to come back home to Wisconsin and coach for MU and wanted no part of it. Did he think the Big East was too difficult? Interesting to say the least.
Wisconsin fans can't be thrilled with this as many feel he would be their next guy (obviously it could still happen).
The ACC ain't a picnic either though.
Could it be that MU wasn't enamored with him? Certainly his style of play is much different.
Quote from: sailwi on March 30, 2009, 04:54:05 PM
I don't understand the prince in waiting attitude of UW and Bennett, wasn't there some hard feelings when Bennett senior left and Soderberg wasn't hired. I would think UW would hire the coach at UW Whitewater, D 3 experience seems to be there mantra.
There were hard feelings with Dick Bennett and the UW admin, but Tony wasn't really a part of that, as he continued to work under Ryan for a few years. There were supposedly hard feelings between Tony and Bo.
I can't imagine his style of play will be all that loved at Virginia. Time will tell.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 30, 2009, 04:49:49 PM
That should tell you a LOT about what he thought of Marquette.
Virginia has been in the dumps for quite some time, is in the ACC where they have been slaughtered. Had a chance to come back home to Wisconsin and coach for MU and wanted no part of it. Did he think the Big East was too difficult? Interesting to say the least. Or he just changed his mind and felt that he couldn't keep things going at Wazzu (tough place to recruit, too) so he's jumping while he can.
Wisconsin fans can't be thrilled with this as many feel he would be their next guy (obviously it could still happen).
Not only that, but many UW fans were hoping Tubby would go to UVA and thus eliminate some of their competition in both coaching and recruiting...
Quote from: MUfan12 on March 30, 2009, 04:55:08 PM
The ACC ain't a picnic either though.
Could it be that MU wasn't enamored with him? Certainly his style of play is much different.
I know it isn't a picnic, that's what I find interesting. Tells me that he thinks he has a better chance to compete in the ACC with UVA then in the Big East with MU. Or at least that is one conclusion that someone could draw, though it may be completely inaccurate. Maybe he just digs Virginia. ;)
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 30, 2009, 04:49:49 PM
That should tell you a LOT about what he thought of Marquette.
Virginia has been in the dumps for quite some time, is in the ACC where they have been slaughtered. Had a chance to come back home to Wisconsin and coach for MU and wanted no part of it. Did he think the Big East was too difficult? Interesting to say the least. Or he just changed his mind and felt that he couldn't keep things going at Wazzu (tough place to recruit, too) so he's jumping while he can.
Wisconsin fans can't be thrilled with this as many feel he would be their next guy (obviously it could still happen).
I think you're reading it the wrong way. He knows that Jeter is Bo Ryan's choice as successor, and UW would likely pick him if he's successful at UWM or anywhere else. Bennett's hope is that Jeter screws it up beyond belief and eliminates himself from contention. At the same time, if Bennett goes to MU, any shot of him becoming the UW coach is over.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 30, 2009, 04:58:21 PM
I know it isn't a picnic, that's what I find interesting. Tells me that he thinks he has a better chance to compete in the ACC with UVA then in the Big East with MU. Or at least that is one conclusion that someone could draw, though it may be completely inaccurate. Maybe he just digs Virginia. ;)
[/b][/color]Why else move across the country. I think he'll find it very hard in the ACC. Just look at the litany of good coaches who have gone there recently. It could end up being hell in paradise for TB.
I suspect $ is no small factor, but also probably safe to assume he has concerns about his ability to sustain success at WSU. Romar has Washington rolling, ASU. USC, Cal, all improved/improving, not to mention UCLA, and Arizona. Not that the ACC will be easy, but there he at least there he is walking into a struggling program, and should have the benefit of time to build. Seems like a pretty good move.
Chicos -- Can we be sure it says something about what Bennett feels about Marquette?
Or does it say something further about the pathetic coaching "search" we conducted that lasted a day and a half and ended with us hiring the first guy who answered his phone? I wonder if Tony Bennett was also recommended by Billy Gillespie?
Quote from: bma725 on March 30, 2009, 05:00:02 PM
I think you're reading it the wrong way. He knows that Jeter is Bo Ryan's choice as successor, and UW would likely pick him if he's successful at UWM or anywhere else. Bennett's hope is that Jeter screws it up beyond belief and eliminates himself from contention. At the same time, if Bennett goes to MU, any shot of him becoming the UW coach is over.
I've heard the Jeter to UW-Madison for awhile and I guess I don't quite get it. He's done an ok job there, but nothing spectacular. Jeter is a great guy and tight with Bo obviously, I'd love for him to get the gig. I always figured Tony as more a Marquette guy then UW-Madison guy. His dad was crapped on a bit by UW and Bennett's dad had fond relationship with MU.
Would a guy who doesn't recruit well and plays Bennett ball really go over well with MU? He'd have to win A LOT just to keep the alumni happy and not bored in the long run.
But who knows, maybe Bennett doesn't respect the MU program as much as UVA? Or maybe he really does want the UW job when he is 60. Maybe Cottingham was that in love with Buzz? Only a few people know the real deal.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 30, 2009, 05:10:01 PM
I've heard the Jeter to UW-Madison for awhile and I guess I don't quite get it. He's done an ok job there, but nothing spectacular. Jeter is a great guy and tight with Bo obviously, I'd love for him to get the gig. I always figured Tony as more a Marquette guy then UW-Madison guy. His dad was crapped on a bit by UW and Bennett's dad had fond relationship with MU.
What I was trying to say was that if Jeter were successful it's his job over Bennett's, even if Bennett was a bit more successful. On the other hand if Jeter doesn't turn it around at UWM, Bennett becomes the leading candidate. But to stay the leading candidate he has to be in a position where he can go to UW, and you can't do that from MU.
I think what he's done as a coach show you all you need to know about how he really feels about UW. When IU went after him last year, he pulled his name out because of how they treated his sister. On the other hand, when Dick was upset that Soderberg didn't get the job, Tony stayed at UW for two more years.
Quote from: Stone Cold on March 30, 2009, 05:11:12 PM
Maybe Cottingham was that in love with Buzz?
There is no way anybody could be more impressed with Buzz Williams than Tony Bennett. It is not humanly possible.
Buzz may turn out to be a good hire, but there is no question it was not an impressive hire. The search was an embarrassment and some of our leading candidates have now been snatched up by other programs while we're stuck with Ernest T. Bass as the face of our university.
I hate this board.
Anyway, did anybody think for a second that maybe Tony Bennett doesn't want to come back to Wisconsin where he dad was an icon??? It has nothing to do with how he viewed the Marquette job. He also had no interest in Indiana or LSU either. He was looking for a great fit...and he found it. Good for him. Nice payday too.
Quote from: PuertoRicanNightmare on March 30, 2009, 05:23:38 PM
There is no way anybody could be more impressed with Buzz Williams than Tony Bennett. It is not humanly possible.
Buzz may turn out to be a good hire, but there is no question it was not an impressive hire. The search was an embarrassment and some of our leading candidates have now been snatched up by other programs while we're stuck with Ernest T. Bass as the face of our university.
From the outside looking in, you're right nobody can say with a straight face that hiring Buzz was safer than Tony B. But you're dismissing Cottingham having a year to work with Buzz and gauge what he's capable of. He also pulled in some pretty good recruits, something you can't attribute to Bennett. Now we could have just whiffed on Bennett but it's also possible Cottingham being an insider may have come to have a trust in Buzz's ability that you weren't capable of having.
Quote from: MUBasketball on March 30, 2009, 05:26:34 PM
I hate this board.
Anyway, did anybody think for a second that maybe Tony Bennett doesn't want to come back to Wisconsin where he dad was an icon??? It has nothing to do with how he viewed the Marquette job. He also had no interest in Indiana or LSU either. He was looking for a great fit...and he found it. Good for him. Nice payday too.
Then leave
Maybe he just changed his mind in the last year. Maybe last year he thought that WSU was where he wanted to stay for a long time and something changed that made him decide differently when Virginia came callin'.
Quote from: TJ on March 30, 2009, 05:33:20 PM
Maybe he just changed his mind in the last year. Maybe last year he thought that WSU was where he wanted to stay for a long time and something changed that made him decide differently when Virginia came callin'.
Wazzou also took a dive this year too to 16-13 and lost in the first round of the NIT coming off a Sweet 16. Although the Pac-10 is somewhat in flux right now, and he could possibly have still kept up the success he had in his first two years, perhaps he just decided to strike when the iron was still hot.
Quote from: Stone Cold on March 30, 2009, 05:30:44 PM
Then leave
Don't mind if I do...you'd think this is an anti-MU board anyway.
Quote from: MUBasketball on March 30, 2009, 05:42:41 PM
Don't mind if I do...you'd think this is an anti-MU board anyway.
I dunno if I'd say that. Unfortunately, with this thread, there seems to be a lot of this going on here:
(http://images.southparkstudios.com/media/images/602/602__image_09.jpg)
Is that Ernest T. Bass with the club?
Quote from: Tom Crean's Tanning Bed on March 30, 2009, 05:40:25 PM
Wazzou also took a dive this year too to 16-13 and lost in the first round of the NIT coming off a Sweet 16. Although the Pac-10 is somewhat in flux right now, and he could possibly have still kept up the success he had in his first two years, perhaps he just decided to strike when the iron was still hot.
+1
For the fun of it I've gone over to the Wazzou board a few times this season and Bennett was getting ripped on for the usual things: recruiting, substitution patterns, play calling, not play calling, NOT developing players...! Any of this sound familiar???
I think he left while he is still considered a hot young coach. Recently it seems that the UVA is where coaches go and their careers die! I give him three years.
TB would have been a bust at MU...he doesn't have the passion for MU and his style would get blown up in the Big East...he'll be chop liver in the ACC...he's a mid-major at best...please
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 30, 2009, 05:10:01 PM
I've heard the Jeter to UW-Madison for awhile and I guess I don't quite get it. He's done an ok job there, but nothing spectacular. Jeter is a great guy and tight with Bo obviously, I'd love for him to get the gig. I always figured Tony as more a Marquette guy then UW-Madison guy. His dad was crapped on a bit by UW and Bennett's dad had fond relationship with MU.
Wrong, the answer I feel is Tony wouldn't give MU the time of day after we peed on his father while at UWGB. Dick would have given his family jewels for the Warrior job, but didn't as much as get an interview.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 30, 2009, 04:58:21 PM
I know it isn't a picnic, that's what I find interesting. Tells me that he thinks he has a better chance to compete in the ACC with UVA then in the Big East with MU. Or at least that is one conclusion that someone could draw, though it may be completely inaccurate. Maybe he just digs Virginia. ;)
I think MU is a tough sell. Urban campus, freezing cold etc. UVA is beautiful campus with milder climate. I would not want to go from Pullman to Milwaukee.
Quote from: 4everwarriors on March 30, 2009, 07:40:25 PM
Wrong, the answer I feel is Tony wouldn't give MU the time of day after we peed on his father while at UWGB. Dick would have given his family jewels for the Warrior job, but didn't as much as get an interview.
Dick still speaks fondly of Marquette and McGuire. I know he would have loved the MU job and would have also loved if MU gave Tony a scholarship, but either way Dick seems to have more than a few special things to say about MU in the circles I travel.
Now, his son could be totally different and I'd say by his actions last year and his quick jump this year, you're probably dead on right. He could care less about MU (even if his father thinks it's special).
UVA will be tough gig for him. Hope it works out.
last year Bennet had a hot team and was coach of the year..., this year, not so much. last year he never wanted to leave his dream job..., this year, couldn't wait! Timing is everything.
Just a thought...This is not a rhetorical question, but a question out of ignorance: There are father-son coaches in Div I, but are there any sons of top-level coaches who have earned bona fide top-level status of their own? Coaching at this level takes total commitment and sacrifice. If it's not what you're wired for, forget about it. Dad can grease the wheels, but you've got to have your own fire and vision to succeed. I can't think of any...
Quote from: MOwarrior on March 30, 2009, 10:26:42 PM
Just a thought...This is not a rhetorical question, but a question out of ignorance: There are father-son coaches in Div I, but are there any sons of top-level coaches who have earned bona fide top-level status of their own? Coaching at this level takes total commitment and sacrifice. If it's not what you're wired for, forget about it. Dad can grease the wheels, but you've got to have your own fire and vision to succeed. I can't think of any...
John Thompson III?
I guess time will tell with him.
Oh yeah, for sure. A Final Four ('07) for JTIII pretty much undermines my little theory. I was thinking of Pat Knight and Bennett, forgot about JTIII.
Obviously only been a couple years, but the early returns for Keno Davis are pretty solid.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 30, 2009, 07:58:38 PM
Dick still speaks fondly of Marquette and McGuire. I know he would have loved the MU job and would have also loved if MU gave Tony a scholarship, but either way Dick seems to have more than a few special things to say about MU in the circles I travel.
Now, his son could be totally different and I'd say by his actions last year and his quick jump this year, you're probably dead on right. He could care less about MU (even if his father thinks it's special).
UVA will be tough gig for him. Hope it works out.
Just speculation but I think he was scared of the Big East and also the pressure at Indiana. Sounds like at Virginia he can come in and look like the savior. I don't think it has anything to do with his feelings about Marquette. It's all about timing and I don't think the Big East (any school, not just MU) would have been a good fit for him in 2008-2009.
You'd have to be a moron to turn down the state school of Indiana with all that basketball talent and weak Big Ten competition for Virginia and ACC competition. Makes me wonder if Bennett was actually offered the IU job.
Quote from: NavinRJohnson on March 31, 2009, 07:23:43 AM
Obviously only been a couple years, but the early returns for Keno Davis are pretty solid.
It's been one year...with a senior laden team. I would say the jury is still WAY out on that one.
I had no idea there were so many clairvoyants and mind readers on this board.
Wow, that strikes close to home
Quote from: MOwarrior on March 30, 2009, 10:26:42 PM
Just a thought...This is not a rhetorical question, but a question out of ignorance: There are father-son coaches in Div I, but are there any sons of top-level coaches who have earned bona fide top-level status of their own? Coaching at this level takes total commitment and sacrifice. If it's not what you're wired for, forget about it. Dad can grease the wheels, but you've got to have your own fire and vision to succeed. I can't think of any...
You guys forgot Joey Meyer.
Quote from: Stone Cold on March 31, 2009, 07:35:14 AM
You'd have to be a moron to turn down the state school of Indiana with all that basketball talent and weak Big Ten competition for Virginia and ACC competition. Makes me wonder if Bennett was actually offered the IU job.
Or an extremely loyal family man who didn't like the way the university treated one of his siblings.
Quote from: sailwi on March 30, 2009, 04:54:05 PM
I don't understand the prince in waiting attitude of UW and Bennett, wasn't there some hard feelings when Bennett senior left and Soderberg wasn't hired. I would think UW would hire the coach at UW Whitewater, D 3 experience seems to be there mantra.
UW was very unhappy with Dick Bennett and the way he left, which basically left them with no choice but to hire Soderburg.
BTW, you do realize that both DIII coaches that they hired coached at DI before UW right?
Bennett is an odd fit for UVA. His style is more appropriate for the B10. Plus, he has no history on the east coast and will always be trying to beat Duke and UNC. But, it is his decision and I hope it works out for him. For all of the Buzz haters, what more could he have done in the first year? Held the team together and went toe to toe with all of the big boys despite 3 injuries that significantly impacted the development and depth of this team. Brought in a top 20 class with possibly more to follow. Competitive in the toughest conference in basketball despite having no one over 6'6" contribute. He OVERACHIEVED his talent. Could a starting lineup of Acker, Cubillan, Hazel, Fulce, and Burke have beaten UWM? No. There is always going to be dunderheads on chatboards, but try to look at this objectively. Wait a couple of years and THEN start hating on him.
Agree totally with Tower on this one.
Not only did he hold the class together along with all the other accomplishments, but he did it and won playing a style that may not be the style he prefers or will recruit to and play in the future.
Future seasons may or may not warrant criticism, but for this campaign, a big "thumbs up" to Buzz.
When is that last time UVA had a really good team? Is it just me or is that a school where hot young coaches go to die.....Gillen & Leitao?
Quote from: tower912 on March 31, 2009, 08:34:42 AM
Bennett is an odd fit for UVA. His style is more appropriate for the B10. Plus, he has no history on the east coast and will always be trying to beat Duke and UNC. But, it is his decision and I hope it works out for him. For all of the Buzz haters, what more could he have done in the first year? Held the team together and went toe to toe with all of the big boys despite 3 injuries that significantly impacted the development and depth of this team. Brought in a top 20 class with possibly more to follow. Competitive in the toughest conference in basketball despite having no one over 6'6" contribute. He OVERACHIEVED his talent. Could a starting lineup of Acker, Cubillan, Hazel, Fulce, and Burke have beaten UWM? No. There is always going to be dunderheads on chatboards, but try to look at this objectively. Wait a couple of years and THEN start hating on him.
I honestly don't know anyone that hates Buzz. Maybe 1%. Most of us want him to succeed. I don't think questioning substitution patterns, timeouts, etc means people hate him or is an indication that they wish him to fail. Nor do I think pointing out that he inherited a top 15 team, senior laden, three time NCAA visitors a knock on Buzz....it's factual and the reality of the situaton.
Quote from: CAINMUTINY on March 31, 2009, 03:41:03 PM
When is that last time UVA had a really good team? Is it just me or is that a school where hot young coaches go to die.....Gillen & Leitao?
Probably in 2006-07 when they shared the ACC Crown with UNC.
My 2 cents...at the time, Bennett may have been the "safe" hire, whatever BS that means. But I am ECSTATIC we didn't hire him. He can't recruit, and his style of play is BORING, SLOW, and would have killed us in the BE. Hope to see everybody on this thread back here in 2-3 years when Virginia is bottoming out (if they can get any lower) and Bennett gets canned.
Quote from: lab_warrior on March 31, 2009, 04:20:32 PM
My 2 cents...at the time, Bennett may have been the "safe" hire, whatever BS that means. But I am ECSTATIC we didn't hire him. He can't recruit, and his style of play is BORING, SLOW, and would have killed us in the BE. Hope to see everybody on this thread back here in 2-3 years when Virginia is bottoming out (if they can get any lower) and Bennett gets canned.
While I would agree that his style of play is..well...methodical, he basically did the recruiting of last year's senior class that went to the Sweet 16. That class has at least one NBA player (Kyle Weaver) if not more. I believe he also did a lot of the recruting for some of the players that helped Wisconsin to the Elite 8 such as Devin Harris and Freddie Owens
My guess is that if you can recruit to Washington State some decent talent, that you should be able to recruit to UVa. But we'll see...they jury's out.
Quote from: lab_warrior on March 31, 2009, 04:20:32 PM
My 2 cents...at the time, Bennett may have been the "safe" hire, whatever BS that means. But I am ECSTATIC we didn't hire him. He can't recruit, and his style of play is BORING, SLOW, and would have killed us in the BE. Hope to see everybody on this thread back here in 2-3 years when Virginia is bottoming out (if they can get any lower) and Bennett gets canned.
Could be the case. Though anyone that has ever been to Pullman, WA would know why it's so hard to recruit there an why it has been a graveyard for coaches for a long time. Some good coaches have been there, but they leave before it catches up to them.
As far as boring or slow goes, just get me wins.
Quote from: lab_warrior on March 31, 2009, 04:20:32 PM
My 2 cents...at the time, Bennett may have been the "safe" hire, whatever BS that means. But I am ECSTATIC we didn't hire him. He can't recruit, and his style of play is BORING, SLOW, and would have killed us in the BE. Hope to see everybody on this thread back here in 2-3 years when Virginia is bottoming out (if they can get any lower) and Bennett gets canned.
PAC-10 ALL-FRESHMAN TEAM
Name, School, Pos, Ht, Wt, Hometown (Last School)
DeAngelo Casto, WSU, F, 6-8, 229, Spokane, Wash. (Ferris HS)DeMar DeRozan, USC, F, 6-7, 220, Compton, Calif. (Compton HS)
Jeremy Green, STAN, G, 6-4, 190, Austin, Texas (Bowie HS)
Jrue Holiday, UCLA, G, 6-3, 180, North Hollywood, Calif. (Campbell Hall HS)
Isaiah Thomas, WASH, G, 5-8, 180, Tacoma, Wash. (South Kent School, Conn.)
Klay Thompson, WSU, G, 6-6, 187, Ladera Ranch, Calif. (Santa Margarita HS)
How are you guys claiming that Tony Bennett can't recruit, as if Buzz Williams has some secret personality elixir that helps him get players. Are you telling me Tony Bennett couldn't compete with Bo Ryan for recruits? Or with Jerry Wainwright? Or Bruce Weber? Tubby Smith? Tom Crean!?!?! Who do you think Ryan would be more concerned about for top Wisconsin players...Buzz or an in-state basketball legend? Frankly, I think Buzz is extremely limited in the kind of student athlete he's able to recruit. Somehow, I have a hard time seeing the Novak's pushing Steve toward Marquette if Buzz Williams were at the helm.
I hope Buzz succeeds...nobody "hates" him...but winning one game in the NCAA with a team with 4 seniors and a junior in the starting line up does not make him a home run hire.
Tony Bennett would have been a home run hire...a grand slam, in fact. Buzz Williams was MAYBE a double, but really more like an infield hit considering the situation our coach was to inherit.
Quote from: PuertoRicanNightmare on March 31, 2009, 07:34:27 PM
How are you guys claiming that Tony Bennett can't recruit, as if Buzz Williams has some secret personality elixir that helps him get players. Are you telling me Tony Bennett couldn't compete with Bo Ryan for recruits? Or with Jerry Wainwright? Or Bruce Weber? Tubby Smith? Tom Crean!?!?! Who do you think Ryan would be more concerned about for top Wisconsin players...Buzz or an in-state basketball legend? Frankly, I think Buzz is extremely limited in the kind of student athlete he's able to recruit. Somehow, I have a hard time seeing the Novak's pushing Steve toward Marquette if Buzz Williams were at the helm.
I hope Buzz succeeds...nobody "hates" him...but winning one game in the NCAA with a team with 4 seniors and a junior in the starting line up does not make him a home run hire.
Tony Bennett would have been a home run hire...a grand slam, in fact. Buzz Williams was MAYBE a double, but really more like an infield hit considering the situation our coach was to inherit.
How can we claim that? Because he's got a little thing called a recruiting record and he has only landed one four star player in three years, the rest three and two stars.
Beyond the "All Freshman" Team indicated above I think the point was made that in the past 2 years, even after their sweet 16 appearance, TB has only been
able to land 1 top 100 kid...indicating that he isn't a great recruiter.
And now he's working completely off of "his" kids and none of his dad's recruits are there anymore...results = NIT birth.
Quote from: Stone Cold on March 31, 2009, 08:18:35 PM
How can we claim that? Because he's got a little thing called a recruiting record and he has only landed one four star player in three years, the rest three and two stars.
For chrissakes, he was in Pullman, Washington!! Buzz Williams has exactly ONE recruiting class to his credit and they haven't entered school yet. It could be up there with one of "Tom Crean's World Famous Vanishing Recruiting Classes" for all we know. But be sure to hitch your wagon to Buzz Williams. He's a no-brainer!
Quote from: PuertoRicanNightmare on March 31, 2009, 08:27:26 PM
For chrissakes, he was in Pullman, Washington!! Buzz Williams has exactly ONE recruiting class to his credit and they haven't entered school yet. It could be up there with one of "Tom Crean's World Famous Vanishing Recruiting Classes" for all we know. But be sure to hitch your wagon to Buzz Williams. He's a no-brainer!
Buzz is in Milwaukee Wisconsin!!!!! a good city but not exactly a metropolis and he's from texas and is still able to pull in top notch local talent. Washington State football squad had no problem getting guys to Pullman Washington just 7 or 8 years ago. You can make excuses for TB all you want but he has NO RECORD of being able to recruit elite and in fact has one of the inverse.
Quote from: dennycrane on March 31, 2009, 05:40:59 PM
PAC-10 ALL-FRESHMAN TEAM
Name, School, Pos, Ht, Wt, Hometown (Last School)
DeAngelo Casto, WSU, F, 6-8, 229, Spokane, Wash. (Ferris HS)
DeMar DeRozan, USC, F, 6-7, 220, Compton, Calif. (Compton HS)
Jeremy Green, STAN, G, 6-4, 190, Austin, Texas (Bowie HS)
Jrue Holiday, UCLA, G, 6-3, 180, North Hollywood, Calif. (Campbell Hall HS)
Isaiah Thomas, WASH, G, 5-8, 180, Tacoma, Wash. (South Kent School, Conn.)
Klay Thompson, WSU, G, 6-6, 187, Ladera Ranch, Calif. (Santa Margarita HS)
That's a tad bit misleading, though.
Because of Bennett's awful recruiting the previous two seasons, Wazzou had to give its freshmen a ton of minutes this season. Thompson played more than 33 minutes per game. That's Jerel McNeal/Wesley Matthews territory.
In between all the freshmen and five seniors on the roster this year, Wazzou had zero sophomores play more than 3 minutes per game and one junior.
Of course, while that meant plenty of minutes for young players, it also meant a sub-.500 record in a subpar conference and a one-in-done in the NIT.
Interesting what to some passes as a grand slam these days.
p.s. How Casto made the all-freshmen team is a bit of a head-scratcher. Kid averaged 4.4 points and 4 rebounds per game. I know the Pac-10 was bad this year, but was it really
that bad?
Quote from: PuertoRicanNightmare on March 31, 2009, 08:27:26 PM
For chrissakes, he was in Pullman, Washington!! Buzz Williams has exactly ONE recruiting class to his credit and they haven't entered school yet. It could be up there with one of "Tom Crean's World Famous Vanishing Recruiting Classes" for all we know. But be sure to hitch your wagon to Buzz Williams. He's a no-brainer!
I don't think he's saying the Buzz hire is a no brainer, rather that he's landed more 4 star recruits in 1 year than Bennett has in the past 3.
Quote from: PuertoRicanNightmare on March 31, 2009, 07:34:27 PM
How are you guys claiming that Tony Bennett can't recruit, as if Buzz Williams has some secret personality elixir that helps him get players. Are you telling me Tony Bennett couldn't compete with Bo Ryan for recruits? Or with Jerry Wainwright? Or Bruce Weber? Tubby Smith? Tom Crean!?!?! Who do you think Ryan would be more concerned about for top Wisconsin players...Buzz or an in-state basketball legend? Frankly, I think Buzz is extremely limited in the kind of student athlete he's able to recruit. Somehow, I have a hard time seeing the Novak's pushing Steve toward Marquette if Buzz Williams were at the helm.
I hope Buzz succeeds...nobody "hates" him...but winning one game in the NCAA with a team with 4 seniors and a junior in the starting line up does not make him a home run hire.
Tony Bennett would have been a home run hire...a grand slam, in fact. Buzz Williams was MAYBE a double, but really more like an infield hit considering the situation our coach was to inherit.
I am not a fan of Buzz, I think he was a hasty hire. That said, it is not his fault DJ went down and the wheels came off the bus.
Quote from: PuertoRicanNightmare on March 31, 2009, 07:34:27 PM
How are you guys claiming that Tony Bennett can't recruit, as if Buzz Williams has some secret personality elixir that helps him get players. Are you telling me Tony Bennett couldn't compete with Bo Ryan for recruits? Or with Jerry Wainwright? Or Bruce Weber? Tubby Smith? Tom Crean!?!?! Who do you think Ryan would be more concerned about for top Wisconsin players...Buzz or an in-state basketball legend? Frankly, I think Buzz is extremely limited in the kind of student athlete he's able to recruit. Somehow, I have a hard time seeing the Novak's pushing Steve toward Marquette if Buzz Williams were at the helm.
I hope Buzz succeeds...nobody "hates" him...but winning one game in the NCAA with a team with 4 seniors and a junior in the starting line up does not make him a home run hire.
Tony Bennett would have been a home run hire...a grand slam, in fact. Buzz Williams was MAYBE a double, but really more like an infield hit considering the situation our coach was to inherit.
Simple, some of us actually follow college basketball recruiting rather than just making off the cuff remarks with no factual basis. Bennett has shown nothing as the head coach of WSU since 2006 to show that he is capable of recruiting the talent necessary to compete in the PAC-10, let alone the Big East.
He's been able to sign a grand total of one top 100 recruit while he was there and his roster is chocked full of 2 star players that had no offers from other high majors and have no business playing big time college basketball. His prized recruit for next year is Xavier Thames, a three star player that peaked as a high school sophomore and has steadily been dropping on everyone's board since then.
Good recruiters can bring in talent no matter city or school they are at. There are top 100 recruits this year going to places like like LaSalle, Akron, Georgia State and Charlotte...but Bennett couldn't get a single one.
Bennett may have been a home run hire as a PR move. But as a recruiter, he's not good.
Quote from: Pakuni on March 31, 2009, 08:41:41 PM
That's a tad bit misleading, though.
Because of Bennett's awful recruiting the previous two seasons, Wazzou had to give its freshmen a ton of minutes this season. Thompson played more than 33 minutes per game. That's Jerel McNeal/Wesley Matthews territory.
In between all the freshmen and five seniors on the roster this year, Wazzou had zero sophomores play more than 3 minutes per game and one junior.
Of course, while that meant plenty of minutes for young players, it also meant a sub-.500 record in a subpar conference and a one-in-done in the NIT.
Interesting what to some passes as a grand slam these days.
p.s. How Casto made the all-freshmen team is a bit of a head-scratcher. Kid averaged 4.4 points and 4 rebounds per game. I know the Pac-10 was bad this year, but was it really that bad?
Thompson was also a top 50 recruit (by some anyway) which is why he played so much. He's damn good.
It will be interesting to see how Tony does at UVa. Recruiting to Pullman is really tough if you're doing it without cheating.
Quote from: bma725 on March 31, 2009, 09:55:44 PM
Simple, some of us actually follow college basketball recruiting rather than just making off the cuff remarks with no factual basis. Bennett has shown nothing as the head coach of WSU since 2006 to show that he is capable of recruiting the talent necessary to compete in the PAC-10, let alone the Big East.
He's been able to sign a grand total of one top 100 recruit while he was there and his roster is chocked full of 2 star players that had no offers from other high majors and have no business playing big time college basketball. His prized recruit for next year is Xavier Thames, a three star player that peaked as a high school sophomore and has steadily been dropping on everyone's board since then.
Good recruiters can bring in talent no matter city or school they are at. There are top 100 recruits this year going to places like like LaSalle, Akron, Georgia State and Charlotte...but Bennett couldn't get a single one.
Bennett may have been a home run hire as a PR move. But as a recruiter, he's not good.
+1000000
Funny too that the guy bemoaning the lack of a "home run" hire for PR purposes was so quick to dismiss anything our former coach did as "PR"....
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 31, 2009, 10:06:18 PM
Thompson was also a top 50 recruit (by some anyway) which is why he played so much. He's damn good.
It will be interesting to see how Tony does at UVa. Recruiting to Pullman is really tough if you're doing it without cheating.
And UVA hasn't proven tough to recruit to? If Bennett doesn't improve his recruiting I'll give him 4 years in the ACC tops.
Quote from: Stone Cold on March 31, 2009, 10:08:53 PM
And UVA hasn't proven tough to recruit to? If Bennett doesn't improve his recruiting I'll give him 4 years in the ACC tops.
I don't know why it would be. This is the place that got Ralph Sampson to play there, right? Bryant Stith, Sean Singeltary, Curtis Staples, etc. Unbelievable campus, nice weather, very good academics, some solid basketball history, ACC, 2 Final Fours, respectable NCAA appearances, etc.
Wazzu is in the middle of nowhere, crappy academics, terrible weather, not a major urban center within hours.
Between the two, I would think it's much easier to recruit to Virginia then Washington State. Tony has struggled recruiting, but he hasn't had much to recruit to. Now he won't have that excuse. Will his recruiting improve? Don't know.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 31, 2009, 10:22:31 PM
I don't know why it would be. This is the place that got Ralph Sampson to play there, right? Bryant Stith, Sean Singeltary, Curtis Staples, etc. Unbelievable campus, nice weather, very good academics, some solid basketball history, ACC, 2 Final Fours, respectable NCAA appearances, etc.
Wazzu is in the middle of nowhere, crappy academics, terrible weather, not a major urban center within hours.
Between the two, I would think it's much easier to recruit to Virginia then Washington State. Tony has struggled recruiting, but he hasn't had much to recruit to. Now he won't have that excuse. Will his recruiting improve? Don't know.
Pullman is a tough spot, no doubt.
But Bennett's old man recruited a Sweet 16 team when the program was down about as far as any could be (averaged 8 wins the previous four seasons). George Raveling and Kelvin Sampson recruited some pretty good teams to Pullman. And, though it's a different sport, Mike Price recruited a couple of Rose Bowl teams to Pullman.
Tough, but far from impossible.
Virginia should be easier in one sense, but in the other he's going to be recruiting against Coach K, Roy Williams, Gary Williams, Bob Huggins, JT III, etc. for all that Virginia talent. The competition in the Pacific Northwest - and options for kids who want to play big-time hoops fairly close to home - is much more sparse.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 31, 2009, 10:22:31 PM
I don't know why it would be. This is the place that got Ralph Sampson to play there, right? Bryant Stith, Sean Singeltary, Curtis Staples, etc. Unbelievable campus, nice weather, very good academics, some solid basketball history, ACC, 2 Final Fours, respectable NCAA appearances, etc.
Wazzu is in the middle of nowhere, crappy academics, terrible weather, not a major urban center within hours.
Between the two, I would think it's much easier to recruit to Virginia then Washington State. Tony has struggled recruiting, but he hasn't had much to recruit to. Now he won't have that excuse. Will his recruiting improve? Don't know.
Going into it if Dave Leito can't get em I'll have a hard time believing Tony can.
Quote from: bma725 on March 31, 2009, 09:55:44 PM
Simple, some of us actually follow college basketball recruiting rather than just making off the cuff remarks with no factual basis. Bennett has shown nothing as the head coach of WSU since 2006 to show that he is capable of recruiting the talent necessary to compete in the PAC-10, let alone the Big East.
He's been able to sign a grand total of one top 100 recruit while he was there and his roster is chocked full of 2 star players that had no offers from other high majors and have no business playing big time college basketball. His prized recruit for next year is Xavier Thames, a three star player that peaked as a high school sophomore and has steadily been dropping on everyone's board since then.
Good recruiters can bring in talent no matter city or school they are at. There are top 100 recruits this year going to places like like LaSalle, Akron, Georgia State and Charlotte...but Bennett couldn't get a single one.
Bennett may have been a home run hire as a PR move. But as a recruiter, he's not good.
:D
Hilarious post. You read the player rankigs. How many players not on that list that Bennett recruited end up in the NBA? All conference team? On a Sweet Sixteen team?
Maybe Buzz Williams will be great. His recruits have not proven anything yet. You argument is premature.
Quote from: Pakuni on March 31, 2009, 10:29:16 PM
Pullman is a tough spot, no doubt.
But Bennett's old man recruited a Sweet 16 team when the program was down about as far as any could be (averaged 8 wins the previous four seasons). George Raveling and Kelvin Sampson recruited some pretty good teams to Pullman. And, though it's a different sport, Mike Price recruited a couple of Rose Bowl teams to Pullman.
Tough, but far from impossible.
Virginia should be easier in one sense, but in the other he's going to be recruiting against Coach K, Roy Williams, Gary Williams, Bob Huggins, JT III, etc. for all that Virginia talent. The competition in the Pacific Northwest - and options for kids who want to play big-time hoops fairly close to home - is much more sparse.
You think it was Dick who recruited those kids? I thought Dick could not recruit?
Quote from: dennycrane on April 01, 2009, 01:34:24 PM
:D
Hilarious post. You read the player rankigs. How many players not on that list that Bennett recruited end up in the NBA? All conference team? On a Sweet Sixteen team?
Maybe Buzz Williams will be great. His recruits have not proven anything yet. You argument is premature.
My argument is independent of Buzz Williams. In fact I'm not even arguing that Buzz is a better recruiter than Tony, I'm simply saying Tony is a bad recruiter.
Tony Bennett's recruiting evaluated on it's own by multiple factors beyond just the rankings....like how the players have actually looked on the floor, and how he's doing in comparison to his PAC-10 competition that he had to face. Rankings are only a minor part of it, the play on the court is what really matters, and by that measure or any other measure you can come up with, Tony Bennett's recruiting has been bad. What Buzz Williams does or doesn't do has nothing to do with the argument.
Quote from: bma725 on April 01, 2009, 01:40:40 PM
My argument is independent of Buzz Williams. In fact I'm not even arguing that Buzz is a better recruiter than Tony, I'm simply saying Tony is a bad recruiter.
Tony Bennett's recruiting evaluated on it's own by multiple factors beyond just the rankings....like how the players have actually looked on the floor, and how he's doing in comparison to his PAC-10 competition that he had to face. Rankings are only a minor part of it, the play on the court is what really matters, and by that measure or any other measure you can come up with, Tony Bennett's recruiting has been bad. What Buzz Williams does or doesn't do has nothing to do with the argument.
Explain how Bennett's bad recruiting took the worst program in the Pac 10 to the Sweet Sixteen. Do you realize how many negative streaks the WSU program broke against other Pac 10 teams? Bad recruiting?
You are spreading nonsense. Bennett does not recruit like Calapari. That by no means makes him a bad recruiter.
Quote from: dennycrane on April 01, 2009, 03:15:11 PM
Explain how Bennett's bad recruiting took the worst program in the Pac 10 to the Sweet Sixteen. Do you realize how many negative streaks the WSU program broke against other Pac 10 teams? Bad recruiting?
You are spreading nonsense. Bennett does not recruit like Calapari. That by no means makes him a bad recruiter.
Those recruits that played on the Sweet 16 team were Dick Bennett's recruits...not Tony's. Since 06' what have they done now that his old man's recruits aren't there?
Quote from: muarmy81 on April 01, 2009, 03:21:55 PM
Those recruits that played on the Sweet 16 team were Dick Bennett's recruits...not Tony's. Since 06' what have they done now that his old man's recruits aren't there?
Is that so? Who do you think recruited them?
There appears to be several people on this board who know the Bennett's. They have claimed intimate knowledge as to the workings of the decision making by both Dick and Tony. They can ask Dick who handled the recruiting at WSU.
Quote from: dennycrane on April 01, 2009, 03:30:47 PM
Is that so? Who do you think recruited them?
There appears to be several people on this board who know the Bennett's. They have claimed intimate knowledge as to the workings of the decision making by both Dick and Tony. They can ask Dick who handled the recruiting at WSU.
While I'm sure Tony helped with the recruiting while his dad was there let's look at the logic:
Tony + Dick = recruits that lead to Sweet 16
Tony = recruits that lead to early exit in NIT
Looking at the above equations I think many tend to believe that while Tony was involved with recruiting with his dad he hasn't been able to achieve the same success without his dad. Was Dick the guy closing the deal or was there another assistant that left when the reigns were handed to tony? Who knows, but now that Dick is missing from the equation you don't see much talent coming through Pullman.
Quote from: muarmy81 on April 01, 2009, 03:37:14 PM
While I'm sure Tony helped with the recruiting while his dad was there let's look at the logic:
Tony + Dick = recruits that lead to Sweet 16
Tony = recruits that lead to early exit in NIT
Looking at the above equations I think many tend to believe that while Tony was involved with recruiting with his dad he hasn't been able to achieve the same success without his dad. Was Dick the guy closing the deal or was there another assistant that left when the reigns were handed to tony? Who knows, but now that Dick is missing from the equation you don't see much talent coming through Pullman.
To add to that equation ...
Tony =
Zero members of the class of 2007 that played three or more minutes per game this year.
One member of the class of 2006 that played three or more minutes oer game this year.
This year's freshman class appears decent, but his two prior classes -
his first two without the old man in charge - were essentially wasted. In two years, he landed one player.
And yet we're crazy to question his recruiting chops? Hmmm.
Quote from: Pakuni on April 01, 2009, 04:00:05 PM
To add to that equation ...
Tony = Zero members of the class of 2007 that played three or more minutes per game this year. One member of the class of 2006 that played three or more minutes oer game this year.
This year's freshman class appears decent, but his two prior classes - his first two without the old man in charge - were essentially wasted. In two years, he landed one player.
And yet we're crazy to question his recruiting chops? Hmmm.
The older players were still better. Tony gets no credit for them according to you. Two of the '08 recruits that played were all Pac 10 freshman.
To bad you were not available for the search committees at LSU, IU and UVA. You could have let those schools know Bennett was such a bad recruiter.
2008-2009: Washington State finished 314th out of 330 teams in total offense (59.2)! I don't want to turn MU into Wisky!