If grading their 4 years - they deserve a solid B.
On the one hand, they kept Marquette competitive in the big East and consistently ranked through 4 years. On the other hand, they never got to finals of the Big East Tournament, and never beyond the second round of the NCAA tournament. By never reaching the Sweet Sixteen, it seems they never quite met expectations.
Quote from: warriorfred on March 22, 2009, 07:33:20 PM
If grading their 4 years - they deserve a solid B.
On the one hand, they kept Marquette competitive in the big East and consistently ranked through 4 years. On the other hand, they never got to finals of the Big East Tournament, and never beyond the second round of the NCAA tournament. By never reaching the Sweet Sixteen, it seems they never quite met expectations.
B is perfect
I'd have to give them an A-. Maybe a B+.
These kids had NO ONE down low and suffered seriously devastating injuries going into two of their four tournament runs. Silver Warrior (on the other board) listed the select few tteams that these kids have been with in terms of winning percentage, games won, etc. over the last four years. The list of teams that can match what MU has done over the last four is under 10.
The NCAA Tournament has not been kind. But, as the committee says, the "body of work" has been fabulous. At a time when we were a short step away from Cincy or DePaul like obscurity (heading into the Big East) these boys not only kept us afloat, but let Marquette shine.
EDIT: Let me also say, that while everyone acknowledges that Dan Marino never won the big one, very few penalize him for that. Most still consider him a top 3 QB of all time. Why? Body of work, plain and simple. Same can be said for the Amigos.
If you take that they have been successful AND in a new league that is miles above where the program had been, you have to look at an A.
We are 4 players away from being DePaul. No other way to really consider that. To go from C-USA to the Big East AND finish near the top of the league every year. Wow! A+
3 wins in the BE Tourney. 2 wins in the NCAA. Awesome guys. Huge effort. B-.
Who is your favorite Eagle next year? I call Byucks!
We should expect that every recruiting class at least make the sweet sixteen, so I give them a B-...
I'll give them an A. Like was mentioned, they were missing a key piece at the center position. However, I think the Big 3 met, and actually exceeded expectations. However, the team as a whole ended up just short of expectations. But, the Big 3 did just about all that could be asked of them. thisclose to a Sweet 16 last year. Same thing this year. If Dom hadn't gone down, who knows where they would have ended up.
I am not going to lower a grade because of Injury, and I am also assuming things would have been different this year had James not gotten hurt, so when you consider the general lack of supporting cast they had throughout their time here...the entire body of work, on the court, off the court, the way they have conducted themselves, success in the classroom...I don't know how you can go lower than an A.
A....a solid 'A'
These guys walked into a program that was coming off of back-to-back NIT seasons out of CUSA....and entered the the nation's best conference after losing its best player to the NBA draft, and one of its best 2 returnees to a late & unexpected transfer. Against that backdrop these seniors delivered 4 consecutive NCAA tourneys (first time in 30 yrs MU has done that), 2 NCAA wins, and 44ish Big East regular season wins. That's a remarkable run for a group who jumped into a program still smarting from a season-ending home loss to Western Michigan in the months before they arrived.
It's not their fault that TC failed to surround them with complementary talent.....in fact, that makes their accomplishments all the more impressive IMHO.
Incomplete.
They'd get a solid B from me. The positives of being competitive in a really tough conference, getting to the tournament every year, and being competitive against elite teams. The negatives, though, of losing close games, never getting to the sweet 16, and just plain bad luck.
i think they deserve an A+...how can you hold them accountable for the fact that their previous coach could never surround them with adequate interior help...one of the greatest injustices i have ever seen in sports Cream simply abdicating his responsibilty to recruit talent at the 4 and 5 to supplement these 3 great players. Final 4 talent for the last 3 years at the 1,2, and 3 surrounded by low major talent at the 4 and 5, (consideringhayward is a3)
I love them, a lot of great memories, but when it comes down to it, the heartbreak will stand out much more than anything else.
Quote from: MR.HAYWARD on March 22, 2009, 08:13:56 PM
i think they deserve an A+...how can you hold them accountable for the fact that their previous coach could never surround them with adequate interior help...one of the greatest injustices i have ever seen in sports Cream simply abdicating his responsibilty to recruit talent at the 4 and 5 to supplement these 3 great players. Final 4 talent for the last 3 years at the 1,2, and 3 surrounded by low major talent at the 4 and 5, (consideringhayward is a3)
A- for me.
I agree that they were hampered/ultimately denied a real NCAA run by injuries, but mostly by lack of a big man.
I think Lazar is a true college 4, undersized as he is, and a good one. He is a better college 4 than he will be a 3.
I disagree that Crean abdicated his responsibility to land a talented big man. He just failed at it. With our facilities, the Big East and those guards around to get a big guy the ball, it is kind of amazing he couldn't convince one to come here, though.
Overall, I have to go with A-.
94 wins in 4 years. 4 consecutive 20 win seasons. 4 straight NCAA bids for the first time in 30 years. 4 straight seasons of 10+ wins in conference play. Survived a coaching change, complete dearth of big man talent, and injuries at inopportune times. Dominance of nearly every major statistical category in the Marquette record books. Graduating in 4 years.
For those of you downgrading them based on NCAA wins, consider that 3 of their 4 NCAA losses were by 9 points combined (Alabama by 4, Stanford by 1, and Mizzou by 1). If those break the other direction, we're talking about a class that makes a second round and two consecutive Sweet 16s in 3 of their 4 years.
A couple of fluke bounces (Novak missing a tying 3, Brook Lopez's circus shot, and late-game scenadigans vs. Mizzou) unfortunately changed everything when it came to their NCAA legacy. But I do understand the view that a win is what you're ultimately measured on, but I do not agree that should be the sole assessment of this class.
Quite honestly ... this was one of the best games I've seen from these guys. Not because they lost ... but because they were both a joy and very exciting to watch (of course right up until the end). What a way to come back and give yourself a chance. There's no substitute for March Madness games.
They get an AB. Not an A only because I really wanted to see a Final Four run from these guys. I can't fault them because of James' injury, but it still leaves me ever so slightly disappointed. Being a Cleveland sports fan, I have seen my fare share of 'close, but no cigar' seasons and MU has been no different. There's really no getting used to it, but being able to drink in recent years helps.
I will miss the guys and am very thankful for the memories!
Keith
props on using the mu grading , do they still use that?
Quote from: MR.HAYWARD on March 22, 2009, 09:23:32 PM
props on using the mu grading , do they still use that?
As of Spring semester 2008, yes. I don't even think in +/- anymore as a result and was confused when reading some of the grades above.
Keith
mu currently uses AB, BC, etc.
I give wes matthews an A just for his thunderous 2 handed jam at the end. most highlight worthy moment of his career.
I think Steve Novak would give them an A. He might not be in the NBA if it wasn't for these guys. He had a horrible junior year after Diener was hurt.
How can you not give them an A ?
Look what they have accomplished without a big man inside and no bench to spell them? How many minutes have these guys played each game?
Even disinterested fans whom I had dinner with tonight are in awe of Jereal and Wes.
They are more enthusisitic and appreciative than some of you.
I am proud of them and what they have accomplished
Anyone that ranks them poorly based on their lack of at least a sweet 16 run is out of their mind. We were 1 shot out of the sweet 16 last year and half a foot out of a shot at going to the sweet 16 today, all with one of the most 1 dimensional teams i have ever seen. The fact that these guys were able to do so much with so little around them gives them mad props in my book.