MUScoop

Just started thinking about this and wonder what the consensus is? 

Any experts out there?

Don't we have a Hyperbaric Chamber for training?

Milwaukee is about 1000 ft.  The increase is about 1500. I live south of Tucson at about 4000 ft.  Today I have an appt in Tucson -- about 2600 ft.  Routinely we hike to 5 or 6 thousand ft with no effects.  You won't feel it until there's about 4000 ft difference from what you're used to.
Go from Milw to ski in CO at 12,000 ft and you'll feel it.  It won't be noticeable at the game on Fri.

Boise is 2700 feet

http://www.theweatherconnection.com/Montana_Weather_Report.asp?enterzipcode=83702&stateCode=ID&stationID=KBOI&distance=3.354

For comparison, Denver is 5,000 feet and Milwaukee is 634 feet.

This is not high enough to matter.

Side note - Yes they have a Hyperbaric Chamber, but from everything I read, they use it in the wrong way.

(they ride stationary bikes in it.  That is wrong.  The optimal is to train at sea level and live at altitude.  So, live and sleep in it and train outside of it.  This is a common mistake with these things.  What they do is counterproductive, they starve their bodies for Oxygen by riding bikes at altitude and make things worse.)

No expert, but I do spend the summers in Jackson Hole, Wyoming.   The altitude there is about 6000 feet in the valley and when I hike/climb I get up to as much as 13000+.......It has never affected me in the least, so I doubt 2600 feet will have any impact whatsoever on the game......

nm

How about the fact that USU is at 4800 feet? 

Will they be super energized playing at the lower altitude?

Quote from: harryp on March 18, 2009, 12:02:41 PM
Milwaukee is about 1000 ft.  The increase is about 1500. I live south of Tucson at about 4000 ft.  Today I have an appt in Tucson -- about 2600 ft.  Routinely we hike to 5 or 6 thousand ft with no effects.  You won't feel it until there's about 4000 ft difference from what you're used to.
Go from Milw to ski in CO at 12,000 ft and you'll feel it.  It won't be noticeable at the game on Fri.

When will the hiker meet Train A from Tucson to Boise?  I started having flashbacks to 5th grade math while reading your post.

Quote from: AnotherMU84 on March 18, 2009, 12:03:52 PM
Side note - Yes they have a Hyperbaric Chamber, but from everything I read, this use it in the wrong way.

You're absolutely correct.  If they really wanted to benefit from the chamber, they would sleep in there, and then train as usual (outside the chamber).

Now, as to the altitude - it won't be a problem in Boise.  Marquette's womens team came to Boulder last year for the WNIT.  The altitude here (5430) didn't stop them from giving the lady Buffs a thorough beatdown.

Quote from: ATWizJr on March 18, 2009, 12:06:43 PM
How about the fact that USU is at 4800 feet? 

Will they be super energized playing at the lower altitude?

Yes, if Friday was a 175 mile stage of the Tour De France through the Alps.  No if it is just an NCAA basketball game.

Quote from: ATWizJr on March 18, 2009, 12:06:43 PM
How about the fact that USU is at 4800 feet? 

Will they be super energized playing at the lower altitude?

Again the altitude difference isn't that great.  They might not get fatigued quite a s quickly (though it'll be minimal).  However, I doubt their guys are conditioned as well as ours.  

Quote from: AnotherMU84 on March 18, 2009, 12:03:52 PM
(they ride stationary bikes in it.  That is wrong.  The optimal is to train at sea level and live at altitude.  So, live and sleep in it and train outside of it.  This is a common mistake with these things.  What they do is counterproductive, they starve their bodies for Oxygen by riding bikes at altitude and make things worse.)

I have no idea one way or the other, but riding the bikes in the chamber and starving their bodies of oxygen - isn't that what forces the bodies to adapt?  I'd never heard the train at sea level, live at altitude thing before. Just curious.

Quote from: Mike McCarter on March 18, 2009, 12:15:14 PM
but riding the bikes in the chamber and starving their bodies of oxygen - isn't that what forces the bodies to adapt?  I'd never heard the train at sea level, live at altitude thing before. Just curious.

Well, I think it's fine to train at altitude.  However, it takes the body a LOT of time to adapt to a lack of oxygen.  When I moved from Chicago to Colorado it was probably a full 3-6 months before I was fully acclimated.

Riding a bike for 20 min with lower oxygen levels isn't going to do crap.

p.s. - isn't it really a Hypoxic chamber?  Hypoxic is low oxygen, hyperbaric is high oxygen and usually used for post-training recovery (I think).

I haerd that it was purchased under the ruse of being a hyperbaric chamber, but was later found out to be the worlds largest walk in tanning booth. 

Who ever indicated that MU uses the hyperbaric chamber improperly is correct.  The team would have to sleep and train most of the time to have any added benefit of high altitude training; and hour of cardio in a low oxygen environment ain't going to cut it.....

Its just another gimmick brought in by Crean; who by just about anyone's standards had zero knowledge of keniseology.  This is not to hate on Crean, but any coach who continually pushes his team to exhaustion (much to the detriment) and fails to realize rest is warranted deserves to lose.  Even the greatest athlete needs a light day or a few days off prior to a big game.

I thought what they have is a hypobaric chamber.

At altitude you need more red cells to carry the additional oxygen that muscles must have to compensate for lower available O2

A hyperbaric chamber increases the atmospheric pressure inside. the theory is you will inhale more oxygen and more will be available sytemically. This would be more useful for injuries

Warning may contain some science content:
I'm not an expert but after two semesters of anatomy/physiology I do know this can be an endurance factor for athletes.  For higher altitude training to become beneficial for an athlete they would need to train long enough for their body to produce the amount of red blood cells needed to transfer the optimal amount of oxygen (O2) to their muscles in the O2 deprived environment.    As for our chamber I would assume it can help but does not compare to living at 5000 ft everyday (+1 USU).  This is b/c the body is deprived of O2 every day vs a few hours while both cases should result in an increased amount RBCs but you should get more RBCs by living/training at 5000ft than in our fish tank.   
How does it affect sports: An athlete with a higher RBC count at a lower altitude will have more O2 in their blood stream which will give them more available energy (ATP).  Also, their high RBC count should last a while w/the average life span of your RBC's lasting ~90 days.  I would assume this is preferred method for athletes like your boxers, runners, cyclists, swimmers, etc who only compete every now then.  However, you can always skip the hard training and cheat the system by blood doping with your own personal blood bank which I'm pretty sure is undetectable w/the exception of a few transfusion needle holes and the occasional witness.   Of course this never happens and is only in theory...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_doping
The reason this is such a benefit is because our cells are more efficient at producing energy (ATP) through aerobic (w/O2) respiration rather than anaerobic (w/o O2) respiration:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cellular_respiration
Therefore more RBC's in your blood = more O2 for your body/cells = more energy production through aerobic respiration w/negligible amounts of lactic acid = better athlete with higher endurance and more available energy
Bottom line to this long boring post is that there is an advantage and our guys might have to sit a few minutes more than normal but b/c USU doesn't run the floor I don't see them overpowering us with their energy/endurance so my semi-educated guess would have this at a non factor.

No advantage from hyperbaric chamber... it DELIVERS more oxygen to Red Cells to deliver to tissues it does not create new red cells. It is more useful in healing injuries.

I found the story, It was from October 2007

Again, this is exactly the wrong way to do it.  What James describes would make one's stamina worse as described above.

And, regarding the Tae Kwon Do, that is useless as well.  Instead Crean should have gotten Tequan Dean!  Sorry, can't help myself on this one :)

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http://mattsuconnblog.blogspot.com/2007_11_01_archive.html


In preparing for the upcoming season, Marquette instituted two different approaches to the preseason in addition to its regular basketball routine.

First, the program became the first in the country to integrate a high-altitude training chamber into its weight room, a method that, in theory, cuts down on time training while improving stamina.

"I feel like I'm definitely in better shape, I got a little more air in my lungs," said Dominic James, who, like his teammates, will peddle on a stationary bike inside the oxygen-reduced air a couple times a week. "It's definitely something that's going to make us better in the long run."

Secondly, coach Tom Crean introduced Tae Kwon Do to the team with the hopes it would improve hand-eye coordination, balance and his players' overall quickness. He has a sensei come in at least once a week to perform the classes.