http://www.jsonline.com/sports/goldeneagles/41001887.html
You got to like the last quote in the article from the fomer coach! He is referencing Wes, Jerel, and Dom.
"It's the feeling you have when you have warriors, and that is what they are, warriors." . . .
The tan one is trying real hard to get back into our good graces.
"and I take great pride in what they have achieved over..."
I think he meant "credit".
I think he said what he meant.
Who cares what he thinks? Certainly not the players in question...they made that abundantly clear on Saturday, when not one of them threw even a weak acknowledgement his way, and one actually took a public shot at him.
Quote from: NavinRJohnson on March 10, 2009, 07:39:51 AM
Who cares what he thinks? Certainly not the players in question...they made that abundantly clear on Saturday, when not one of them threw even a weak acknowledgement his way, and one actually took a public shot at him.
+1
I still think the Warriors feel betrayed by the self-promoting tan one!
Its nice to hear Wes speak his mind and revel the true crean......."I want to thank coach Buzz for unleashing me"
I think we can expect to be high scoring team for years to come with Buzz at the helm; that and continue to see players playing with smiles as opposed to having their heads down.....The glass is half full folks, with plenty of refills yet to come.
Enough with the Crean bashing folks. Geez, all he did in the article was compliment the work ethic, character and determination of the departing seniors. How can anyone seriously have any objections to what he said in that article?
And by the way, if you think every player is going to play with smiles on their faces under Buzz and that many played with their heads down under Crean, you are seriously deluded. I like Buzz, but he basically only played half the roster this season. Do you think Cubillan, Hazel, Fulce, O'Tule and Acker (before the DJ injury) all had smiles on their faces while riding the pine?
I don't like how Crean departed, but I don't think he's the selfish, devil-incarnate many make him out to be here. Buzz is a young coach (experience-wise) and has done a good job this year, but I don't believe he is pure as the driven snow as many make him out to be.
Nice article, but why do the U/S writers keep misstating Wes' record?
Matthews was named second team all-Big East and is the leader in free throws attempted.
Wrong! He is the leader in free throws made (520 to Meminger's 493). In free throw attempts, he is third, behind Meminger and Thompson -- which makes his free throws made record all the more impressive. I have seen this same statement a couple of times now in the U/S.
Quote from: Norm on March 10, 2009, 08:41:45 AM
How can anyone seriously have any objections to what he said in that article?
I don't object to anything he said, I just don't care what he thinks. As I said, I think the same players he is talking about made their opinions known. That's what I care about. They obviously don't care much about his opinion, why should anybody else?
My problem is not with Tom Crean necessarily, it is with guys like Gary Howard, Dick Vitale, Bill Raftery, and the host of others who can't help themselves from heaping a disproportionate amount of attention and praise on coaches in general, as opposed to the players who make those coaches.
Tom Crean is gone...his opinion on these guys frankly doesn't matter anymore. Seeking it out is what I object to.
"I think he said what he meant."
Yeah - TC was definitely always one to take at his word. Sarcasm now off. Just another opportunity to take credit for something and put his name in the papers (marketing himself). It's obvious the MU players don't care, otherwise their speeches would have said differently. He lied to them about staying for their 4 years - it would appear they don't have communication with him. So, why does TC even do this interview? Writing's on the wall.
If Gary Howard wants to get Crean's take, he should probably get his take on the whole picture. How about asking something to the effect of..."None of the four acknowledged you on Senior Day (not really a big deal), and in fact Wes Matthews had this to say.... What is your reaction to that?"
Of course that would require a bit of effort and work, not something that the JS staff is generally known for.
Quote from: NavinRJohnson on March 10, 2009, 09:03:58 AM
I don't object to anything he said, I just don't care what he thinks. As I said, I think the same players he is talking about made their opinions known. That's what I care about. They obviously don't care much about his opinion, why should anybody else?
My problem is not with Tom Crean necessarily, it is with guys like Gary Howard, Dick Vitale, Bill Raftery, and the host of others who can't help themselves from heaping a disproportionate amount of attention and praise on coaches in general, as opposed to the players who make those coaches.
Tom Crean is gone...his opinion on these guys frankly doesn't matter anymore. Seeking it out is what I object to.
Lot of posts for a guy who doesn't care. Did you not read the subject line first? YOu opened the thread, YOU clicked on the link, YOU replied and then you say that you don't care. If you object to 'seeking out' information on him, you sure aren't showing it.
Quote from: RawdogDX on March 10, 2009, 10:03:52 AM
Lot of posts for a guy who doesn't care. Did you not read the subject line first? YOu opened the thread, YOU clicked on the link, YOU replied and then you say that you don't care. If you object to 'seeking out' information on him, you sure aren't showing it.
How is objecting to someone seeking out information, seeking out information? How is sharing my opinion seeking out someone else's opinion?
Try again.
Quote from: Norm on March 10, 2009, 08:41:45 AM
Enough with the Crean bashing folks. Geez, all he did in the article was compliment the work ethic, character and determination of the departing seniors. How can anyone seriously have any objections to what he said in that article?
And by the way, if you think every player is going to play with smiles on their faces under Buzz and that many played with their heads down under Crean, you are seriously deluded. I like Buzz, but he basically only played half the roster this season. Do you think Cubillan, Hazel, Fulce, O'Tule and Acker (before the DJ injury) all had smiles on their faces while riding the pine?
I don't like how Crean departed, but I don't think he's the selfish, devil-incarnate many make him out to be here. Buzz is a young coach (experience-wise) and has done a good job this year, but I don't believe he is pure as the driven snow as many make him out to be.
Agree with your comments. Obviously the departure od Crean is still affecting these guys by their constant rips on him. If you do not give a rats ass about him, why keep bashing him?
May have to cancel my subscription to the Urinal-Sentinel before they go out of business. Crean should shut his piehole and stick to knitting banners or selling used cars which is what he does best.
Quote from: NavinRJohnson on March 10, 2009, 09:03:58 AM
I don't object to anything he said, I just don't care what he thinks. As I said, I think the same players he is talking about made their opinions known. That's what I care about. They obviously don't care much about his opinion, why should anybody else?
My problem is not with Tom Crean necessarily, it is with guys like Gary Howard, Dick Vitale, Bill Raftery, and the host of others who can't help themselves from heaping a disproportionate amount of attention and praise on coaches in general, as opposed to the players who make those coaches.
Tom Crean is gone...his opinion on these guys frankly doesn't matter anymore. Seeking it out is what I object to.
I would simply like the likes of Vitale,sportscasters in general and former coaches to honestly comment on their fellow coaches which never happens because it is a big club. Vitale in both the UCONN and Pitt games claimed Crean left a full cupboard in one sentence and then in the next sentence said we had no bench or depth. You can legitimately point out if you are a sportscaster that Crean deserves credit for the recruiting the 3 amigos and Zar but should be faulted for also leaving no depth and recruiting some players who aren't Big East caliber players.
Quote from: detroitwarrior on March 10, 2009, 04:13:26 PM
I would simply like the likes of Vitale,sportscasters in general and former coaches to honestly comment on their fellow coaches which never happens because it is a big club. Vitale in both the UCONN and Pitt games claimed Crean left a full cupboard in one sentence and then in the next sentence said we had no bench or depth. You can legitimately point out if you are a sportscaster that Crean deserves credit for the recruiting the 3 amigos and Zar but should be faulted for also leaving no depth and recruiting some players who aren't Big East caliber players.
Vitale is a turd.
Quote from: Norm on March 10, 2009, 08:41:45 AM
Enough with the Crean bashing folks. Geez, all he did in the article was compliment the work ethic, character and determination of the departing seniors. How can anyone seriously have any objections to what he said in that article?
Crean's departure made me as upset as everyone else in Warrior Nation. Yeah, maybe he didn't leave in the ideal fashion but I got over it. The man brought our program back to prominence and I'm sure he truly is proud of the seniors. The student section's booing the clip of Crean cutting down the nets every home game is getting pretty old, as well. I realize I haven't added anything new here to what's been stated over and over anyway, but just had to vent.
Nice article. Thanks for posting.
Now.....let's GO WARRIORS!!!
For those of you in Chicago, you can re-watch highlights of the Stanford game ON Demand on Comcast. At the end of regulation, Cube is in the game on defense! So I quick looked at who was out there and it was Jerel, Dom, Cube, Burke and Lazar. No Wes, at the end of our biggest game last year. Just pointing that out.
Quote from: PE8983 on March 10, 2009, 09:42:30 AM
It's obvious the MU players don't care, otherwise their speeches would have said differently.
Hardly.
Saying nothing in that environment was a sign of respect. The players had to know that making a negative remark about Crean was a sure-fire applause generator, and a positive remark would have been booed. Yet three of four avoided the easy cheers. Why?
In that situation there was every incentive to go public with criticism, and every incentive to keep praise to yourself.
We all applaud these young men for being the gentlemen they are, for the wonderful way they represent our alma mater, for the loyalty and character they bring to their endeavors, so why would we expect them to say or act any differently than they do? If a gentleman can't say something nice about a person, he doesn't say anything at all - else he's not a gentleman, no?
Quote from: wildbill sb on March 10, 2009, 08:35:07 PM
We all applaud these young men for being the gentlemen they are, for the wonderful way they represent our alma mater, for the loyalty and character they bring to their endeavors, so why would we expect them to say or act any differently than they do? If a gentleman can't say something nice about a person, he doesn't say anything at all - else he's not a gentleman, no?
+1
Show some class. It appears that these young men have managed to do something that a lot of grown men here have not...
MOVE ON!
Quote from: 4everwarriors on March 10, 2009, 11:01:36 AM
May have to cancel my subscription to the Urinal-Sentinel before they go out of business. Crean should shut his piehole and stick to knitting banners or selling used cars which is what he does best.
I, too, am going to cancel my U/S subscription, but it's because they no longer 'report the news'. I can get their message off of any democrat's campaign posters.
My real bitch, is your constant slamming of used car salesmen. I have known several over the years and all were genuine.
It sounded to me as if TC was in danger of a shoulder dislocation w/ the vigorous 'patting himself on the back'. While he was complimentary and agreeable that all four seniors are men of character, and he deserves tremendous credit for recruiting them, he tried to make it sound as if only DJ was a recognized commodity. As if HE were responsible for their sucess and development. Certainly he had a hand in it, but, as the article states, the character was there when they arrived at MU.
Quote from: Marquette84 on March 10, 2009, 08:12:57 PM
Hardly.
Saying nothing in that environment was a sign of respect. The players had to know that making a negative remark about Crean was a sure-fire applause generator, and a positive remark would have been booed. Yet three of four avoided the easy cheers. Why?
In that situation there was every incentive to go public with criticism, and every incentive to keep praise to yourself.
Saying nothing in that environment was indeed a sign of respect - to Senior Day, to their families and to Marquette University - not to Tom Crean. Venting anger toward TC might have been "a sure-fire applause generator" but it wouldn't have been appropriate. Wes's rather good natured jab aside, the seniors took the high road. I applaud the fact that they didn't think "there was every incentive to go public with their criticism" in this forum and I salute their maturity. But I don't for a minute misconstrue their silence as homage to TC.
If they said anything about TC, why are you assuming it would have been venting anger or that it would be negative? Why not thanking TC for bringing us together to this fine university, helping us become men, developing our game... That would have shown alot more class than not saying anything or saying what WM did. How do you know they would have been boo'ed if they said anything positive? And, even if they were, they could have stood up for TC, and told everyone what he did for the university and the players, etc... That would certainly have shown alot of class.
BTW, I'm not saying any of these players lack class. I'm saying that their lack of any comments regarding TC says alot about their feelings regarding him.
One thing is for certain, no matter what he does, Crean is always going to be criticized by a certain group of fans.
Last week he was on with Mike Wilbon, and people were disappointed that he didn't say anything about James.
This week, he's quoted in an article praising the 4 seniors, and people are disappointed.
Tom Crean could save a baby from a burning building, and inevitably, somebody would come on this board and say he only did it for the self-promotion.
As far as the players go, why doesn't somebody just ask them?
The players don't care and don't talk about TC. Why does he need to do an interview about them? He doesn't and shouldn't. He coaches IU now.
Quote from: PE8983 on March 11, 2009, 07:59:22 AM
The players don't care and don't talk about TC. Why does he need to do an interview about them? He doesn't and shouldn't. He coaches IU now.
It was a puff piece about 4 graduating seniors and the guy that worked closely with them.
People are looking too much into it.
Quote from: 2002mualum on March 11, 2009, 08:03:11 AM
It was a puff piece about 4 graduating seniors and the guy that worked closely with them.
Correct. An easy article for a lazy writer/Crean mouthpiece.
Quote from: 2002mualum on March 11, 2009, 08:03:11 AM
It was a puff piece about 4 graduating seniors and the guy that worked closely with them.
People are looking too much into it.
I think it's a bit odd that GH chose to use only one voice in that article. No Buzz, no Fr Wild, No academic support, no Homer, Bradley Center game op staff. Not saying that TC called GH with the idea, but it is still is a little odd, IMO.
That all being said, it's a great article. MU needs all the good press it can get. This backwards state bends over backwards (no pun intended) to talk about the smart, hard-working, gritty, blue-collar, workman-like effort of Joe Krabbenhoft so it's nice to see something praise the impeccable character of MU's 4 seniors. The one thing you have to give TC...of his players that stuck around, they were GREAT kids.
"Correct. An easy article for a lazy writer/Crean mouthpiece."
I agree, but it still doesn't mean that TC has to want to get involved. Let's call a spade a spade, though - TC loves being in the media under any circumstances.
The problem that many have with TC is that he turns every situation that he's even tangentially involved with into a public relations opportunity for himself. He is like the guy on a blind date who spends the first 30 minutes talking about himself and then says "Enough about me. Lets talk about you. What do you think of ME so far?" He just completed a 6-25 season that incuded a 1-17 slate in conference and a loss at home to mighty Lipscomb. It was easily the worst year in IU history. His "coach-speak" interviews ("It's all about the process", "We're getting better every day", etc.) are uninteresting when he's winning and pathetic when he's getting pounded. I know it's not in his nature, but someone should advise him to give it a rest.
Completely agree.
"It's all about the process", "We're getting better every day", etc. These comments are for losers. Billy Gillespie has been using them over the last month, and he's about to get fired. Mick Cronin's been saying it lately, and I wouldn't be surprised if he got the boot over what happened with their collapse including yesterday. TC can get away with that at IU this year, but if it's happening two years from now, he's done.
Quote from: PE8983 on March 11, 2009, 09:08:11 AM
"Correct. An easy article for a lazy writer/Crean mouthpiece."
I agree, but it still doesn't mean that TC has to want to get involved. Let's call a spade a spade, though - TC loves being in the media under any circumstances.
It's fine to feel that way, but let's be honest, it really doesn't matter what the guy does, somebody is going to find fault.
If he never said ANYTHING about the 4 seniors at the end of their season, somebody certainly would have ripped him for that... "Crean should have at least come out and said something about them after everything they did for him... etc. etc."
I don't know where I fall on this topic, I'm just saying that it really doesn't matter what Crean does, he's going to get ripped either way.
In some cases he deserves to be ripped, it some cases people are just looking for a reason to take a shot at him.
Come on - are there actually any MU fans that would be looking for some TC comments on the graduating seniors?
Quote from: PE8983 on March 11, 2009, 12:45:11 PM
Come on - are there actually any MU fans that would be looking for some TC comments on the graduating seniors?
http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=13240.0
read this thread.
It's not exactly a smoking gun, but whenever the guy talks, people post something critical.
If he only talks about IU, then people think he forgot where he came from (WHAT ABOUT MU, TOM?!). If he mentions MU, people think he's self-promoting (GEEZ, TOM, WE GET IT ALREADY!)
It's probably the same way some people at UNO feel about Buzz. I really like him so far, but I bet their fans aren't not his biggest fans.
A couple of posters on one thread in a message board is what it is - not even a slight minority of the fan base. By and large, nobody cares what TC says or does re MU.
Quote from: PE8983 on March 11, 2009, 07:04:43 AM
Why not thanking TC for bringing us together to this fine university, helping us become men, developing our game...
Because anyone making that statement would have been booed. Nobody wants to set themselves up for that type of response from the crowd.
Quote from: PE8983 on March 11, 2009, 07:04:43 AM
That would have shown alot more class than not saying anything or saying what WM did.
Yes, it would have shown more class. It also would have attracted a loud chorus of boos.
Quote from: PE8983 on March 11, 2009, 07:04:43 AM
How do you know they would have been boo'ed if they said anything positive?
Please. A Memphis basketball player has more intelligence than you if you believe that a positive statement about Crean wouldn't have been booed.
A 0.5 second appearance in a four minute long highlight film attracts boos. Certainly a laudatory statment would do the same.
And, even if they were, they could have stood up for TC, and told everyone what he did for the university and the players, etc... That would certainly have shown alot of class.
Quote from: PE8983 on March 11, 2009, 07:04:43 AM
BTW, I'm not saying any of these players lack class. I'm saying that their lack of any comments regarding TC says alot about their feelings regarding him.
I agree. I just don't agree that it signifies that they are upset with him.
Quote from: DamonKeysContactLens on March 11, 2009, 09:04:53 AM
I think it's a bit odd that GH chose to use only one voice in that article. No Buzz, no Fr Wild, No academic support, no Homer, Bradley Center game op staff. Not saying that TC called GH with the idea, but it is still is a little odd, IMO.
You're right. He would NEVER call a reporter.
84,
These guys have had 10 months to let everyone know how much TC means/meant to them. Their silence has been deafening. To say that 3 of them not mentioning him on Senior Day was somehow a sign of respect is ludicrous. The love they have for "Coach Buzz" is well documented. That they have mostly kept their negative feelings regarding TC to themselves is to their credit.
"Because anyone making that statement would have been booed. Nobody wants to set themselves up for that type of response from the crowd."
I was not able to get to Milw for a game this year, but, are you saying that the overall sentiment of fans (not just a couple of fans) at the BC is a dislike of TC? To the extent, that they would boo during one of the 4 seniors speech's at their going away celebration? If so, then that's sad. Both disrespect for that player, and for what TC did at MU (despite his best Art Modell ditch out of town).
Quote from: PE8983 on March 11, 2009, 03:04:32 PM
"Because anyone making that statement would have been booed. Nobody wants to set themselves up for that type of response from the crowd."
I was not able to get to Milw for a game this year, but, are you saying that the overall sentiment of fans (not just a couple of fans) at the BC is a dislike of TC? To the extent, that they would boo during one of the 4 seniors speech's at their going away celebration? If so, then that's sad. Both disrespect for that player, and for what TC did at MU (despite his best Art Modell ditch out of town).
PE, you're arguing with TC's wife Joanie. You'll never win.
Kind of like how we all booed Tony Miller when he thanked KO in 1995?
Quote from: PE8983 on March 11, 2009, 03:04:32 PM
I was not able to get to Milw for a game this year, but, are you saying that the overall sentiment of fans (not just a couple of fans) at the BC is a dislike of TC? To the extent, that they would boo during one of the 4 seniors speech's at their going away celebration? If so, then that's sad. Both disrespect for that player, and for what TC did at MU (despite his best Art Modell ditch out of town).
Yes. Absolutely they would.
Witness:
Quote from: DamonKeysContactLens on March 11, 2009, 03:38:52 PM
you're arguing with TC's wife Joanie. You'll never win.
See what I mean? Classless response--exactly what I said would would happen if someone said something nice about Crean.
Does Jerel or DJ or Burke really want to be on the receiving end of these comments? I don't think so.
Why would someone--especially an MU player in a public forum--want to be subjected to this garbage?
Since this is a fairly typical reaction from guys like DamonKeysContactLens and his ilk, keeping your mouth shut in public is more respectful of Crean than actually saying anything.
Quote from: PE8983 on March 11, 2009, 02:38:09 PM
A couple of posters on one thread in a message board is what it is - not even a slight minority of the fan base. By and large, nobody cares what TC says or does re MU.
You do realize that we both fit in that "couple of posters" in one thread on a message board you are referring to.
My point still remains that regardless of what the guy does, somebody's going to find fault. I know it's the nature of the head coaching profession, but at times it borders on ridiculous.
He could cure cancer and somebody would still say he only did it to get his name out there for another coaching job.
He's never going to be able to win with a certain (small) % of the MU population.