With the depleted team we have, you have to use your timeouts even if its just to give McNeal, Mathews, and Hayward an extra breather.
Why he waits for the 16-0 run to call a time out rather than when only its a 7-0 run is beyond me and in these three games, I think it cost Marquette a 4 seed in the BE tourney.
Ya think?
I dunno. I'm not sold. We have NO answer for DeJuan Blair and only three viable scorers on offense.
This team would've gotten run despite the TOs. Just bang it into Blair and kick out to the shooters.
All day, all night.
Each run spanned a TV timeout as well. He used em, and they kept scoring.
Take a step back there chieftain.
Quote from: SCdem@MU on March 04, 2009, 08:31:08 PM
With the depleted team we have, you have to use your timeouts even if its just to give McNeal, Mathews, and Hayward an extra breather.
Why he waits for the 16-0 run to call a time out rather than when only its a 7-0 run is beyond me and in these three games, I think it cost Marquette a 4 seed in the BE tourney.
This team may not win again this season if you do not give the guys a few minutes off. The second half collapse is fatigue related. This is three in a row the gas tank is empty.
Then play some other players a few minutes
My only complaint is not going to a zone. Mentioned that after DJ got hurt. Acker can't stay with his guy so why not pack it in, especially against the bigger teams.
If they beat you from three then so be it.
I think Buzz is coaching his tail off, but he is young and inexperienced, something we can't forget. His use of timeouts (or lack thereof) is interesting. I thought during the Louisville game he did a splendid job with them. Against UCONN and PITT, not so much.
Quote from: 79Warrior on March 04, 2009, 08:37:56 PM
This team may not win again this season if you do not give the guys a few minutes off. The second half collapse is fatigue related. This is three in a row the gas tank is empty.
This team may not win a game if you give them rest either.
Timeouts don't give players enough rest for them to not be fatigued. They need to sit on the bench for a while to get there wind. There isn't enough depth on this team to do that. If they sit, it's just going to dig the team into a deeper hole.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 04, 2009, 08:40:00 PM
My only complaint is not going to a zone. Mentioned that after DJ got hurt. Acker can't stay with his guy so why not pack it in, especially against the bigger teams.
What game were you watching? MU played a 1-3-1, MU played a 2-3, MU even played an odd looking 1-1-3 briefly.
Pitt was able to effectively swing the ball and the zone couldn't slide over fast enough so they got open perimeter shots that they made. Or, they were able to exploit the gaps with Blair and Young, and when the zone collapsed those guys found the open men for easy buckets.
Quote from: bma725 on March 04, 2009, 08:43:00 PM
What game were you watching? MU played a 1-3-1, MU played a 2-3, MU even played an odd looking 1-1-3 briefly.
Pitt was able to effectively swing the ball and the zone couldn't slide over fast enough so they got open perimeter shots that they made. Or, they were able to exploit the gaps with Blair and Young, and when the zone collapsed those guys found the open men for easy buckets.
BMA, I only saw the second half as I was in a meeting during the first. I honestly didn't notice much of it, I'll have to watch again I guess.
The only game in the last three we had a realistic chance of winning even with DJ was Louisville. UCONN and PITT are in a different league from us. They have balance, great talent, size, depth--everything. Syracuse is going to be almost as tough.
Yes Buzz needs to call timeouts when teams start runs, but then needs to give an earful to the players who are forcing up dumb shots or are being careless with the ball.
Quote from: WarriorHal on March 04, 2009, 08:47:02 PM
The only game in the last three we had a realistic chance of winning even with DJ was Louisville. UCONN and PITT are in a different league from us. They have balance, great talent, size, depth--everything. Syracuse is going to be almost as tough.
I think we could have beaten UConn, but I agree that beating PITT wasn't a very likely possibility even with DJ.
Quote from: TJ on March 04, 2009, 08:54:50 PM
I think we could have beaten UConn, but I agree that beating PITT wasn't a very likely possibility even with DJ.
UConn was too big. Thabeet and Robinson could score whenever they wanted too. But there was no need with Price filling it up from the outside. It was inevitable that our lack of size on the interior was going to kill us this season against big, really good teams
0 points in these last 3 games by Buzz, definitely cost us
Quote from: WarriorHal on March 04, 2009, 08:47:02 PM
The only game in the last three we had a realistic chance of winning even with DJ was Louisville. UCONN and PITT are in a different league from us. They have balance, great talent, size, depth--everything. Syracuse is going to be almost as tough.
Don't kid yourself, the Cuse is probably to going to win Saturday. Johhny Flynn is going to have a big day against us and the zone will be a nightmare..
Quote from: 79Warrior on March 04, 2009, 09:39:27 PM
Don't kid yourself, the Cuse is probably to going to win Saturday. Johhny Flynn is going to have a big day against us and the zone will be a nightmare..
That's certainly possible, maybe likely. I don't think we've beat Syracuse since we joined the BE, have we?
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 04, 2009, 08:40:00 PM
My only complaint is not going to a zone.
Tried it a few times, and MU didnt do it well....MU had so man defensive breakdowns -- open threes, beaten off the dribble. the team is still learning how to defend without DJ
WE HAVE A HORIZON LEAGUE PG AND C.
My only complaint is having to read ad naus people on here thinking we were still a force after DJ's injury and that all Buzz had to do was "right the ship".
The last three teams were better than us even with James. Buzz had the team ready at half time and we opened up with a good run. Two quick threes and a bad pass all by McNeal turn the monmentum. I think Buzz has done a good job keeping us competitive. I do not know why he did not give Otule a chance in this game, especially with two minutes to go when the game is obviously over. That just adds to my belief that both Otule and Hazel are gone next year. We really need to win the Riley recruiting battle.This game should show that the argument by some people that we need another guard instead of a bigman is just plain wrong. We need a big man and there is no evidence that Otule, Roseborro and McMorrow are anything more than tall players.
Quote from: bilsu on March 04, 2009, 10:00:15 PM
The last three teams were better than us even with James. Buzz had the team ready at half time and we opened up with a good run. Two quick threes and a bad pass all by McNeal turn the monmentum. I think Buzz has done a good job keeping us competitive. I do not know why he did not give Otule a chance in this game, especially with two minutes to go when the game is obviously over. That just adds to my belief that both Otule and Hazel are gone next year. We really need to win the Riley recruiting battle.This game should show that the argument by some people that we need another guard instead of a bigman is just plain wrong. We need a big man and there is no evidence that Otule, Roseborro and McMorrow are anything more than tall players.
Acting like we know the outcome of the games with DJ in there is silly, win or loss. The difference is so great between him and Acker.... pointless to speculate.
I don't know anything about coaching, but I think time out usage is an issue and our lack of bench play kills us in games against atheletic, physical teams. Period. OK, I'm finished.
Thank you
Quote from: Stone Cold on March 04, 2009, 10:03:10 PM
Acting like we know the outcome of the games with DJ in there is silly, win or loss. The difference is so great between him and Acker.... pointless to speculate.
Tonight is the only game of our current losing streak that I feel comfortable saying we would have lost with James. If I had to guess, I'd say we would probably hae split the previous two with James.
Now, tonight was just the usual old fashioned outmanned underneath problem.
Buzz has to stop these runs at 7 with a timeout. I also thought he called the one he has to use up in the first half at a dumb time, with 45 seconds to go and Pitt with the ball. Would rather he waited until Pitt's possession was over.
Yep, completely Buzz's fault that the Acker is short and weak, Burke is not a D1 talent, Fulce got hurt and can't defend, Otule is a project. Not sure what has happened with Hazel and Cooby, but, yep, I blame Buzz for the lack of depth.
Have you guys seen Fulce and Otule play this year? They aren't ready yet. Fulce is an absolute sieve and Otule is a turnover waiting to happen. It hasn't been discussed much, but we REALLY miss Ousmane this year.
The key is earning a #6 seed. That way, we won't see a team with this much talent until the second weekend of the tournament.
It's not Buzz's fault he was left with one bench player. And, it's not his fault he has no bigs. He has done an admirable job with what Crean left him. It is what it is. I do agree though that this team deserves better.
And I disagree that we will lose Saturday. It's senior day, DJ will be on the bench, the crowd will be electric - a lot of emotion will be running through the BC. They have too much pride to lose this game.
Haha, Buzz cost us these games? Wow. There's a lot of stupidity on this board at times.
Oh stop with the timeout crap already. We were outmanned and outgunned and didn't matter if Buzz had 10 timeouts and could use one every other minute. We were not going to stop Pitts offense. Plus, our offensive flow without DJ is long gone. Other than a 3 minute spurt early in the second half, we forced shots all game long trying to go one on one against a good defensive team. Luckily for us we were hitting our 3s or this would have been a 30 point loss.
Good news is that we won't face a team this good in the NCAA tourny until the sweet 16. The bad news is that in all likelihood we lost a four seed in the Big East tourny and a chance at a good seed in the tourny which makes us susceptible of losing in the first round of the big dance.
Quote from: mufanatic on March 04, 2009, 10:43:00 PM
Oh stop with the timeout crap already. We were outmanned and outgunned and didn't matter if Buzz had 10 timeouts and could use one every other minute. We were not going to stop Pitts offense. Plus, our offensive flow without DJ is long gone. Other than a 3 minute spurt early in the second half, we forced shots all game long trying to go one on one against a good defensive team. Luckily for us we were hitting our 3s or this would have been a 30 point loss.
Exactly.
Timeouts are seriously overrated. This is a veteran group...stopping play for a quick timeout won't change the fact that this team is considerably undersized and lacking consistent play from all 5 positions.
The roster is what it is...I'm sick of people thinking this is a loaded roster.
The only way a timeout would have helped in this game is if we called it right before midnight EST and then DeJuan Blair turned into a pumpkin.
Quote from: Stone Cold on March 04, 2009, 10:03:10 PM
Acting like we know the outcome of the games with DJ in there is silly, win or loss. The difference is so great between him and Acker.... pointless to speculate.
And yet you can speculate about the rest of the season and all the losses you predict we'll have.
Timeouts aren't why we lost the game, or any of the others for that matter. That said, this isn't as veteran a group without DJ. He was a calming influence, without that I'm not sure Buzz can give so much deference to the players in stopping a run. There's a reason coaches call timeouts to stop runs...sure as hell worked for Calhoun in the game against us.
All that aside, sadly, as Buzz said earlier we had little margin for error with DJ; now we have none.
Sad to watch. I just hope they can go out in style at home on Saturday that isn't going to be easy by any means.
Quote from: SCdem@MU on March 04, 2009, 08:31:08 PM
With the depleted team we have, you have to use your timeouts even if its just to give McNeal, Mathews, and Hayward an extra breather.
Why he waits for the 16-0 run to call a time out rather than when only its a 7-0 run is beyond me and in these three games, I think it cost Marquette a 4 seed in the BE tourney.
This may be hard for you to fathom, but sometimes the bigger, stronger, deeper and better team wins at home. They could have given us a TO after every Pitt hoop and it would have accomplished nothing other than prolonging our agony. Blaming this loss on Buzz's injudicious use of timeouts is beyond the pale. Only someone with a serious agenda would even suggest it.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 04, 2009, 08:40:00 PM
My only complaint is not going to a zone. Mentioned that after DJ got hurt. Acker can't stay with his guy so why not pack it in, especially against the bigger teams.
If they beat you from three then so be it.
I think Buzz is coaching his tail off, but he is young and inexperienced, something we can't forget. His use of timeouts (or lack thereof) is interesting. I thought during the Louisville game he did a splendid job with them. Against UCONN and PITT, not so much.
Doesnt this just say it all about Chcos?
Ahh we played more zone last night than we have the entire year and by a wide margin.
and to the others that share chiocs hoops accumen Buzz is doing a fantastic job, Pitt is bigger and stronger than us across the front toss it in and score or kick it out and if they hit those shots like they did late you are in troble. people whine about the open threes ...if you knew anything about what Mu is trying to do with their helpside defense you would undertsnd that the way to beat mu is thru inside outside passing or by ball rotation. plain and simple that is what this team has to do. Buzz is playing it right our only chance to win is to play this way. Now you can sit their and say we need to gurd everyone staright up, if we do that Blair and Young have 40 last night and Burke and HAyward foul out in the first half. It's easy to complain what do you suggest we do there geniuses? Also buzz used his timeouts. he actually used two of them during the run and there was another Tv timeout in there. The run was due to very hot shooting by Pitt and terible terrible shot selection by Jerel who for whatever reason has shown nothing but a terrible attitude since DJ went down, his body language and sulking is infuriating, Buzz should sit his ass.
When we struggle this season, it comes down to one word - - defense.
In the past few weeks, even before James' injury, we have struggled getting stops. I don't care who is on the floor, if you allow 60% shooting for a game, you will/deserve to get crushed.
Go Warriors. Crush Orange.
We were up 9, Jerel jacks up a couple of threes, Pitt is going on their run, and then JM comes down and throws a stupid pass to the middle of the floor, and then literally stands there and watches Fields go down for a layup. When the lead got down to 3, I wish Buzz would have called TO, calmed things down, and got in JM's ear to get his head out of his a**.
We need to work the ball around a little more with DJ gone, take time off the clock, make the defense work a little harder, and take smarter shots. The shots we are taking could be had at any time.
Also, if we are going to play the 3 players we have left for 40 minutes, stop the half trap stuff that isn't generating turnovers (just wearing us out more), play straight up defense, and work the shot clock on offense a little more. We are not going to outscore teams any more when they are scoring 80-90 points.
Quote from: PE8983 on March 05, 2009, 07:41:39 AM
...JM comes down and throws a stupid pass to the middle of the floor, and then literally stands there and watches Fields go down for a layup.
This is at least the 2nd time in the last 3 games where he has committed a TO at mid court and just stopped at watched the opposing player run down the court for a layup. I know that Rel, Wes, and Lazar need to conserve all the energy they can, but to me this just looks bad/lazy.
Quote from: MR.HAYWARD on March 05, 2009, 06:17:21 AM
Doesnt this just say it all about Chcos?
Ahh we played more zone last night than we have the entire year and by a wide margin.
and to the others that share chiocs hoops accumen Buzz is doing a fantastic job, Pitt is bigger and stronger than us across the front toss it in and score or kick it out and if they hit those shots like they did late you are in troble. people whine about the open threes ...if you knew anything about what Mu is trying to do with their helpside defense you would undertsnd that the way to beat mu is thru inside outside passing or by ball rotation. plain and simple that is what this team has to do. Buzz is playing it right our only chance to win is to play this way. Now you can sit their and say we need to gurd everyone staright up, if we do that Blair and Young have 40 last night and Burke and HAyward foul out in the first half. It's easy to complain what do you suggest we do there geniuses? Also buzz used his timeouts. he actually used two of them during the run and there was another Tv timeout in there. The run was due to very hot shooting by Pitt and terible terrible shot selection by Jerel who for whatever reason has shown nothing but a terrible attitude since DJ went down, his body language and sulking is infuriating, Buzz should sit his ass.
completely agree. The team played really well for most of the game, but was gassed. They hung in as long as they could against a clearly superior team. There really was no defensive solution against Blair and Young underneath, and if you guys think manning up Burke or Hayward against those two would have worked better then you don't understand how good those two players are underneath.
We can hope and pray and pretend there was something we could have done last night to slow down Pitt's offense, but face it, they are a top 5 offensive team in the nation playing against an undersized, tired team missing their starting PG.
You really thought we could win this game?
I agree! Lots of stpid comments@
Whoever started this thread should have their head examined.
While coaching may be important, there is a reason why coaches fly all over the country and make promises to 18 year olds......its because a coach is no good w/o great players.
In this case there was little buzz could do to defend Pitt w/o DJ; and even with him it would have been a tough game. Let's give the poor guy a break.....he's had a great season and has brought it some top flight talent for next year and even more he's a breath of fresh air from TC.
MU played the 3 of the top 6 teams in the country in a week and someone hopes the use time outs will change something? MU has the team it has and no amount of time out taking or whatever dream scenario tinkering is going to change that. MU got beat by better teams...period.
Playing more talented teams ... with far more depth ... on the road ... shorthanded ... and the lack of timeouts is your primary reason for these losses?
Hmmm.
Why not blame the uniform colors while you're at it. It would make about as much sense.
Perhaps rather than asking why Buzz isn't calling more timeouts, we should be asking how the heck is this team keeping these games competitive for so long?
Quote from: Pakuni on March 05, 2009, 09:02:01 AM
Playing more talented teams ... with far more depth ... on the road ... shorthanded ... and the lack of timeouts is your primary reason for these losses?
Hmmm.
Why not blame the uniform colors while you're at it. It would make about as much sense.
Perhaps rather than asking why Buzz isn't calling more timeouts, we should be asking how the heck is this team keeping these games competitive for so long?
+1
Quote from: MUBasketball on March 04, 2009, 10:28:41 PM
Haha, Buzz cost us these games? Wow. There's a lot of stupidity on this board at times.
+1...it's completely asinine!
Quote from: Pakuni on March 05, 2009, 09:02:01 AM
Playing more talented teams ... with far more depth ... on the road ... shorthanded ... and the lack of timeouts is your primary reason for these losses?
Hmmm.
Why not blame the uniform colors while you're at it. It would make about as much sense.
Perhaps rather than asking why Buzz isn't calling more timeouts, we should be asking how the heck is this team keeping these games competitive for so long?
Why can't it be true that we were outmanned AND Buzz did a poor job managing the game and his timeouts?
The truth is, Buzz's timeout strategy was not the main reason we lost, but it still was lousy. He didn't even need to call a timeout, but he could have subbed for McNeal for a minute to remind him to run a little clock or move the ball around a little before chucking up a low percentage three with 25 seconds on the clock while we're trying to conserve energy because our bench sucks.
And I know our bench sucks, but you still suck it up and take one of our big three out one at a time once each half, making sure Butler is on the floor when you do, and you give them a blow. Maybe you give up an extra basket here or there, but then your stars aren't dead for the last 10 minutes of the game. You hold your nose and put Hazel in there for a couple minutes instead of Butler for Burke and let him deliver a couple hard fouls so Butler can play those extra minutes while McNeal and Matthews sit.
What you don't do is say, 'My bench sucks and we're going to compete for as long as we can and then get our exhausted carcasses run over at the end and leave with our heads held high because of our valiant effort."
I get it, we would have lost anyway. But Buzz had a bad night.
At least, far as I can tell, no one is blaming the refs......
I agree - it seems like they have just ran out of gas in the end of the 2nd half in the last few games. It hurts not having James, but playing Matthews and McNeal 40 minutes, is going to lead to this. I don't understand why we don't use Hazel some, and possibly O'Toule to spell some minutes in the post. Hazel looked to have some promise earlier in the season, and then he's sat on the bench since. It's either we lose trying to use our bench, or we lose trying to win with an exhausted team. Seems like the bench would be the better option. Even 5-10 extra minutes off the bench would help tremendously. Buzz seems to limit his bench subbing to two players (and those two players have rotated throughout the season), but doesn't like going any deeper than that in single game. I don't completely understand the rationale in this, being that we're undersized, we expend more energy in the game trying to muscle up in the post.
Quote from: Sir Lawrence on March 05, 2009, 12:13:57 PM
At least, far as I can tell, no one is blaming the refs......
It was the refs fault!