MUScoop

MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: Sir Lawrence on January 19, 2007, 11:51:45 AM

Title: Sure hope Seth is wrong
Post by: Sir Lawrence on January 19, 2007, 11:51:45 AM: From Seth Davis' Five for Friday

link: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/seth_davis/01/19/five.for.friday/index.html

No. 24 Marquette (16-4) at No. 6 Pittsburgh (17-2)
Marquette has now strung together three quality wins over UConn, West Virginia and Louisville and seems to be headed in the right direction. Ousmane Barro, a 6-10 junior forward, has two double-doubles in his last three games, and sophomore point guard Dominic James, a 31.1 percent three-point shooter on the season, has gone 7-for-12 from behind the arc the past two games. Still, I can't help but believe the Golden Eagles' ceiling is not very high -- they turn the ball over a ton (15.7 a game) and their much-heralded three-man perimeter is a making a collective 29.2 percent from three-point range. Unfortunately, that's not going to be good enough to win at Pitt, a team that is lethally efficient at pressuring the ball and scoring in transition. As for Barro, well, he'll be no match for Aaron Gray, who is coming off a brilliant 22-point, 19-rebound performance in Monday's win over UConn.
Pittsburgh 74, Marquette 64
Title: Re: Sure hope Seth is wrong
Post by: NYWarrior on January 19, 2007, 12:09:11 PM: Quote from: Sir Lawrence on January 19, 2007, 11:51:45 AM
Pitt, a team that is lethally efficient at pressuring the ball and scoring in transition.

Seth Davis is full of it. Pitt is very good - - - but pressuring the ball is not their strength. The Panthers are one of the worst in the nation at forcing turnovers -- 312 other teams force more turnovers than Pitt, and 285 other teams steal the ball more often than Pitt. How is this 'lethally efficient at pressuring the ball and scoring in transition.'

Seth was just making that up.......its fine to say that Pitt should beat MU -- but why write fiction to back it up?

FWIW -- Pitt protects the ball as well as any team in the nation and has a remarkable assists/baskets made ratio .. and MU is 5th in the nation in stealing the basketball. That'll be an interesting subplot.
Title: NY Warrior
Post by: mckst7 on January 19, 2007, 12:22:52 PM: I am hardly a Seth Davis defender, but we do pressure the ball very well. It doesnt mean we force a lot of turnovers which we obviously dont, but it does mean we force teams to take bad shots with men in their faces all game long. The difference between Marquette pressuring the ball and PITT pressuring the ball is, you try to steal the ball to setup your transition game, while we try to pressure the ball to force bad shots.

If you watch us play, I think you will agree that just because we dont force a lot of turnovers or have a lot of steals or blocks, doesnt mean we dont play great defense. Steals typically come when you gamble in passing lanes or double team the ball, 2 things we dont do. Last time I checked, Allen Iverson was a steal machine, does he pressure the ball or play great defense?
Title: Re: Sure hope Seth is wrong
Post by: NYWarrior on January 19, 2007, 12:26:15 PM: fair enough -- Seth should have spoken with you before he mailed it in for his latest column.

Its interesting that Seth talked about MU's turnovers -- the Golden Eagles' turnover margin is substantially greater than the Panthers'.

Again -- this is not meant to demean the Panthers ........ Seth just chose the wrong points to make, points which belie the real strengths of Dixon's squad (ie: the ones you brought up)
Title: Re: Sure hope Seth is wrong
Post by: dwaderoy2004 on January 19, 2007, 12:30:25 PM: gary parrish on cbs.sportline.com disagrees:

http://www.sportsline.com/collegebasketball/story/9941437/2 (http://www.sportsline.com/collegebasketball/story/9941437/2)

"A crazy prediction (but it might happen anyway): This is the category I have the most trouble with every week. Honestly, it's a no-win proposition, and I'm not sure why I ever included it in the format. By definition, I have to pick something silly. So I do. But then it doesn't happen (because it wasn't supposed to happen), and I get flooded with e-mails from people telling me I'm an idiot for ever suggesting their favorite team could lose. In other words, I hate this category. But I'm a stickler for consistency (and perhaps a glutton for punishment), and that's why I'm going to keep at it. So remember I told you that No. 24 Marquette will win at No. 6 Pittsburgh on Sunday. But if it doesn't happen, I'd just as soon you forget."

although he doesn't really seem too confident, and i'm not big gary parrish fan...
Title: Re: Sure hope Seth is wrong
Post by: MilTown on January 19, 2007, 12:33:31 PM: I have watched PITT play multiple times this year. They do pressure the ball. This pressure may not create turnovers, but it will not allow teams to easily get into their offensive sets, and often forces teams into bad positions on the court, and creates bad shots due to the shot clock winding down. On the other hand, we often overplay passing lanes and double on high screens. This creats many steals, but also makes us vulnerable on backdoor cuts and drives to the hoop which has happened often this year.

I don't this Seth is correct in writing us off however. PITT is impressive, but beatable. I'm not sure what Crean's game plan is, but I think we should consider full court pressing right off the bat. I think our key is to create a fast paced tempo right off the bat and get our guys into the game. If the big 3 are firing on all cylinders, I don't think PITT can keep up with us.
Title: Re: Sure hope Seth is wrong
Post by: MUFanInGreenBay on January 19, 2007, 12:44:28 PM: Ahh Seth Davis. He's the guy that picked us for his Final Four earlier this season, and then we go right out and lose to North Dakota St after he says that. What bad timing. I can see why he jumped off the MU bandwagon. That's okay though. Hopefully, we'll get him back on board Sunday.
Title: Re: Sure hope Seth is wrong
Post by: tower912 on January 19, 2007, 12:47:48 PM: "Pitt's pressure keeps team from getting into their offensive sets." We have offensive sets? Who knew.
Title: Re: Sure hope Seth is wrong
Post by: Nukem2 on January 19, 2007, 12:48:01 PM: I think MU will try to push the ball as much as possible as they did against Pitt last year. Pitt is primarily a half-court kind of team (and, a very good one at that). Last year at Pitt, MU controlled the game pushing the ball until DJ was hurt (late 1st half before the "shove") and we did the same at the BC winning 84-81. Pitt prefers lower scoring games as has been the case since the Ben Howland days. Does Pitt play pressure defense? Yes, in the half-court. MU will push the ball to negate this. If MU does not push the ball, Pitt will win.
Title: Re: Sure hope Seth is wrong
Post by: spiral97 on January 19, 2007, 12:50:02 PM: All I can say is...
IS IT SUNDAY YET?????

;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: This isn't Ben Howland's team...
Post by: gopitt on January 19, 2007, 01:09:54 PM: "Pitt prefers lower scoring games as has been the case since the Ben Howland days."

The Pitt team this year is markedly different than any Pitt team since 2001. Previous to this year, Pitt just did not have the players that could produce significant offense hence the focus on stifling "D". This years version is much quicker and much more lethal shooting. In fact after the Wisky and Ok St losses, the focus went back to playing better defense and rebounding. Last week G'Town shot over 60% and still struggled the entire game because we matched that percentage AND dominated in the paint.

Although Pitt feels most comfortable playing stifling man-to-man, this team can match any team shooting. Our 6th man leads the Big East in 3 point efficiency. (And our 7, 8 and 9th men are also very good.) This team is MUCH better than last year.

I still say that this game will be a toss-up though because we are susceptible to quick guards which you obviously have.
Title: Re: Sure hope Seth is wrong
Post by: State on January 19, 2007, 01:52:06 PM: Quote from: dwaderoy2004 on January 19, 2007, 12:30:25 PM
gary parrish on cbs.sportline.com disagrees:

http://www.sportsline.com/collegebasketball/story/9941437/2 (http://www.sportsline.com/collegebasketball/story/9941437/2)

"A crazy prediction (but it might happen anyway): This is the category I have the most trouble with every week. Honestly, it's a no-win proposition, and I'm not sure why I ever included it in the format. By definition, I have to pick something silly. So I do. But then it doesn't happen (because it wasn't supposed to happen), and I get flooded with e-mails from people telling me I'm an idiot for ever suggesting their favorite team could lose. In other words, I hate this category. But I'm a stickler for consistency (and perhaps a glutton for punishment), and that's why I'm going to keep at it. So remember I told you that No. 24 Marquette will win at No. 6 Pittsburgh on Sunday. But if it doesn't happen, I'd just as soon you forget."

Here's my quote/perdiction of the day that if wrong I too would 'soon you forget'.

Barro is going to get man handled on Sunday...almost of epic proportions. I think I am the last of the board to jump ON the Barro-wagon. How was he great against Louisville? So he had a 5 minute stretch were he went unnoticed under the hoop for some easy layins. James should (and probably does) take all the credit for Barro's recent success. Outside of 5 feet (other than FT's) the guy remains lost!! Gray is going to be locked on and ready for our so-called future NBA prospect (Barro...now that was a crazy thread earlier in the week.)

To Barro's credit...he is one agile big guy.

But wait...I know...he only started playing organized basketball last week!!
Title: Re: Sure hope Seth is wrong
Post by: dwaderoy2004 on January 19, 2007, 01:55:57 PM: wowza...wake up on the wrong side of the bed man?
Title: Re: Sure hope Seth is wrong
Post by: tower912 on January 19, 2007, 02:16:33 PM: State, check your cornflakes for pee. Ooze has held his own against McRoberts, Padgett, Butch (except for the foul trouble), Thabeet. Gray will present a challenge, true, and Ooze will need the extrat 15 fouls that Lott, Kinsella, and Burke can provide. But Ooze can beat Gray down the floor every time. If we get him the ball quick enough, he will be fine.
Title: Re: Sure hope Seth is wrong
Post by: 77ncaachamps on January 19, 2007, 02:45:33 PM: Quote from: spiral97 on January 19, 2007, 12:50:02 PM
All I can say is...
IS IT SUNDAY YET?????

;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

No...but it's FRIDAY!!!! YEAHHHHHHHHHHHHH!

:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
Title: Re: Sure hope Seth is wrong
Post by: rocky_warrior on January 19, 2007, 02:49:04 PM: WOW. That's a lot of colors, scrolling, and smilies.

So State. If Barro has a good game against Pitt, will you give him some credit?
Title: Re: Sure hope Seth is wrong
Post by: NYWarrior on January 19, 2007, 02:53:27 PM: so many gimmicks, Rocky. So many gimmicks. what are your intentions here anyway!

;)
Title: Re: Sure hope Seth is wrong
Post by: miltownsports on January 19, 2007, 04:06:51 PM: How was he great against Louisville? he scored 8 of our first 10 points. I mean after that he really didnt do much after the 1st 10 minutes but they obviouslty had to drop in a little to help cover him and that opens upo the outside and keeps the d honest.

and i dont know how ur the last oone off teh Barro bandwagon...im still on it. I assume u meant the last one on. I think barro doesnt dominate but he provides enough to effect teh defensive gameplan of Pitt.
Title: Re: Sure hope Seth is wrong
Post by: State on January 19, 2007, 04:24:38 PM: Quote from: rocky_warrior on January 19, 2007, 02:49:04 PM
So State. If Barro has a good game against Pitt, will you give him some credit?

Credit will be given when credit is due...I've never been a fan of just looking at stats--seeing is believing.
Title: Re: Sure hope Seth is wrong
Post by: IAmMarquette on January 19, 2007, 04:35:10 PM: Quote from: State on January 19, 2007, 04:24:38 PM
Quote from: rocky_warrior on January 19, 2007, 02:49:04 PM
So State. If Barro has a good game against Pitt, will you give him some credit?

Credit will be given when credit is due...I've never been a fan of just looking at stats--seeing is believing.

That's fine, but what have you "seen" this year that leads you to believe Barro stands absolutely no chance? Has he been a game-changing force on a regular basis? No. But has he provided lots of quality minutes and solid D throughout the season? You bet. You seem to believe this matchup is David vs. Goliath... Just remember who won that one ;D
Title: Re: Sure hope Seth is wrong
Post by: State on January 19, 2007, 04:52:47 PM: Quote from: IAmMarquette on January 19, 2007, 04:35:10 PM
Quote from: State on January 19, 2007, 04:24:38 PM
Quote from: rocky_warrior on January 19, 2007, 02:49:04 PM
So State. If Barro has a good game against Pitt, will you give him some credit?

Credit will be given when credit is due...I've never been a fan of just looking at stats--seeing is believing.

That's fine, but what have you "seen" this year that leads you to believe Barro stands absolutely no chance? Has he been a game-changing force on a regular basis? No. But has he provided lots of quality minutes and solid D throughout the season? You bet. You seem to believe this matchup is David vs. Goliath... Just remember who won that one ;D

David v. Goliath...The First Book of Samuel if my MU education holds true.

Well...I did say of 'epic proportions' didn't I?? Probably more dramatic than need be. We'll see how it plays out on Sunday. I'm the first one hoping that this thread comes back to bite me...as Barro holds his own. But I haven't 'seen' much out of the Senegalian this year other than a big body that can shoot FT's and run the floor.

It's a crap shoot on whether or not he'll catch a James pass!!
Title: Re: Sure hope Seth is wrong
Post by: rocky_warrior on January 19, 2007, 04:58:33 PM: Quote from: State on January 19, 2007, 04:52:47 PM
It's a crap shoot on whether or not he'll catch a James pass!!

You're losing it here. He caught and converted about 5 of them in the first 10 minutes of the Louisville game. Considering he only had one turnover in that game, 2 against WVU, and 3 against UConn - your argument is very weak.

You haven't SEEN anything? Then you must not have been watching.
Title: Re: Sure hope Seth is wrong
Post by: State on January 19, 2007, 05:01:17 PM: Quote from: rocky_warrior on January 19, 2007, 04:58:33 PM
You haven't SEEN anything? Then you must not have been watching.

You are correct...I get all my info from this site!!!
Title: Re: Sure hope Seth is wrong
Post by: rocky_warrior on January 19, 2007, 05:08:37 PM: OK, I spoke a little two quickly, only two of them were from james. This from the Play-by-play:

16:35 LAYUP by Ousmane Barro, ASSIST by Jerel McNeal
14:49 LAYUP by Ousmane Barro, ASSIST by Dominic James
14:00 LAYUP by Ousmane Barro, ASSIST by Jerel McNeal
13:23 LAYUP by Ousmane Barro, ASSIST by Jerel McNeal
6:59 LAYUP by Ousmane Barro, ASSIST by Dominic James

Quote from: State on January 19, 2007, 05:01:17 PM
You are correct...I get all my info from this site!!!
Cool then, now you have the correct info ;)
Title: Re: Sure hope Seth is wrong
Post by: State on January 19, 2007, 05:24:46 PM: I did a quick 'google' search to bring me up to speed on Barro's homeland--Senegal.

Interesting factoid: The President of Senegal is President Wade.

Do you think this had anything to do with Barro's decision??? ;)
Title: Set is absolutely right. we turn the ball over a ton and, outside
Post by: 79Warrior on January 19, 2007, 08:19:59 PM: of the UL game, we are shooting terrible. Free throws will cost us this game, just a hunch.
Title: Re: Sure hope Seth is wrong
Post by: rocky_warrior on January 21, 2007, 04:43:21 PM: Quote from: State on January 19, 2007, 04:24:38 PM
Quote from: rocky_warrior on January 19, 2007, 02:49:04 PM
So State. If Barro has a good game against Pitt, will you give him some credit?
Credit will be given when credit is due...I've never been a fan of just looking at stats--seeing is believing.

ahem....
Title: Re: Sure hope Seth is wrong
Post by: State on January 21, 2007, 04:45:50 PM: Too busy to give Barro credit....I'm eating my words right now--should be done in a couple of days!!!

However, PITT avoided Gray at all cost....they (PITT) took Gray out of the game.

Barro....Big Props!!! The boy can run the floor!!!
Title: Re: Set is absolutely right. we turn the ball over a ton and, outside
Post by: Big Papi on January 21, 2007, 04:53:56 PM: Quote from: 79Warrior on January 19, 2007, 08:19:59 PM
of the UL game, we are shooting terrible. Free throws will cost us this game, just a hunch.

Good to see your hunch was bad. GREAT free throw shooting down the stretch!!!!!!!! I think Matthews and James hit them all down the stretch of regulation and the game winner.
Title: Re: Sure hope Seth is wrong
Post by: Sir Lawrence on January 21, 2007, 09:43:15 PM: Seth was so very, very WRONG!
Title: Re: Sure hope Seth is wrong
Post by: downtown85 on January 22, 2007, 02:09:27 AM: Seth was right on the number of points Pitt would score. Otherwise he was wrong.
Title: Re: Sure hope Seth is wrong
Post by: muhoosier260 on January 22, 2007, 03:25:28 AM: in case no one else has come around...."experts" (this is true for everything, not just college basketball) are full of crap, and should be taken with a grain of salt. who makes a living off of predicting how 20 year old kids play a game? are you serious? get a real job. thats what these fun message boards are for, get a life davis, bilas, vitale, packer, etc, etc, etc, etc. PLEASE!
Title: Re: Sure hope Seth is wrong
Post by: RawdogDX on January 22, 2007, 08:59:58 AM: Quote from: muhoosier260 on January 22, 2007, 03:25:28 AM
in case no one else has come around...."experts" (this is true for everything, not just college basketball) are full of crap, and should be taken with a grain of salt. who makes a living off of predicting how 20 year old kids play a game? are you serious? get a real job. thats what these fun message boards are for, get a life davis, bilas, vitale, packer, etc, etc, etc, etc. PLEASE!

Well we know their names and read their collumns. Seems like their job is more real than mine. And yes i would trade with them in an instant.
Title: Re: Sure hope Seth is wrong
Post by: WashDCWarrior on January 22, 2007, 10:11:55 AM: Quote from: State on January 19, 2007, 05:24:46 PM
The President of Senegal is President Wade.

This is the type of information you only find at MUScoop. ::)