Just watching the L'Ville/UCONN game and wondering if MU can play small ball against UCONN? Watching them play I just don't see being able to stick with Burke because Thabeet will be able to clog the lane, and won't have to worry about extending his defense to guard Burke or Hazel. If they go small he'll have to come out and play defense, but would obviously be a major problem on the offensive boards and in the post. Just curious as to how you guys think we'll play them. Could Otule give us needed minutes simply because of his size?
Not to look ahead too far but I'm just watching Thabeet take LVille completely out of their offense with his dominance in the paint.
I'm guessing our best bet against him is to go with our Midgets of Milwaukee lineup with Acker, James, McNeal, Matthews and Hayward. With Thabeet having to guard Hayward it would force him to step out of the paint and guard out to the 3 pt. stripe. Hayward would have his hands full on the defensive end but after watching Samardo Samuels struggle to do anything I can't imagine Burke doing much better.
Just posted the same thing a few threads ago...my thought was small ball or a dramatic improvement from Otule. He's only shooting about 60% from the free throw line, so I guess fouling is an option, but I'm not sure I'd go there. That's why I'm not Buzz, but it is interesting to think about. I just hope we manage to stay away from match-ups like that come the NCAA tourney.
Quote from: AWegrzyn17 on February 02, 2009, 07:41:01 PM
Not to look ahead too far but I'm just watching Thabeet take LVille completely out of their offense with his dominance in the paint.
I'm guessing our best bet against him is to go with our Midgets of Milwaukee lineup with Acker, James, McNeal, Matthews and Hayward. With Thabeet having to guard Hayward it would force him to step out of the paint and guard out to the 3 pt. stripe. Hayward would have his hands full on the defensive end but after watching Samardo Samuels struggle to do anything I can't imagine Burke doing much better.
Can't stop him. Maybe we get lucky and can foul him out. He is a beast.
Quote from: AWegrzyn17 on February 02, 2009, 07:41:01 PM
Acker, James, McNeal, Matthews and Hayward.
That's my thought too. Use Butler and Coobie off the bench. Make him come out to the perimeter to guard Hayward, and get him out of the paint.
Plus, we have to pray we hit a good number of threes...
Forget it, they will beat us by 20 points easily.
It looked like alot of the time they were playing 4 on the perimeter and Thabeet inside. If UConn does this, I think the best way to go would be to penetrate and pass behind him. Don't forget they can play Adrien on Lazar as well, to keep Thabeet in the paint.
We will have to be hitting the 3 to have a real good shot.
Do we need to stop him? We couldn't stop gody, and that didn't seem to hurt us to badly. And yes I realize uconn is much better than nd.
Quote from: bilsu on February 02, 2009, 08:01:18 PM
Forget it, they will beat us by 20 points easily.
Ok, it's forgotten. We might as well forfeit.
UCONN wil NOT beat us by 20 points.
Georgetown beat UCONN earlier in the season. A major reason for that win was the ability of Monroe to lure Thabeet away from the painted area by hitting outside shots. Perhaps Marquette can do something similar. I still believe MU is destined to go unbeaten at home this season. The seniors seem to have an unabated desire to defend the home floor and cap off an unblemished season at the Bradley Center. The one concern for me is not just Thabeet, but UCONN is one of the few teams in the country that can match MU's quickness.
Quote from: bradforster on February 02, 2009, 08:06:41 PM
Georgetown beat UCONN earlier in the season. A major reason for that win was the ability of Monroe to lure Thabeet away from the painted area by hitting outside shots. Perhaps Marquette can do something similar. I still believe MU is destined to go unbeaten at home this season. The seniors seem to have an unabated desire to defend the home floor and cap off an unblemished season at the Bradley Center. The one concern for me is not just Thabeet, but UCONN is one of the few teams in the country that can match MU's quickness.
+1 to all the "small ball" theories.
One of the commentators in the UCONN-UL game stated that: "Thabeet struggles when he is drawn away from the basket by a center who can shoot." To me that equals Hayward at the 5 and our four guards harassing everyone else. I wouldn't be surprised to see a press and/or the zone D at various times.
Quote from: buckchuckler on February 02, 2009, 08:02:37 PM
Don't forget they can play Adrien on Lazar as well, to keep Thabeet in the paint.
We will have to be hitting the 3 to have a real good shot.
Totally agree on the 3. But with the small lineup, if Adrian is on Hayward, then Thabeet has to guard Matthews. Either way, I'll take that matchup. Then it just becomes the rest of the matchups that worry me.
Quote from: bradforster on February 02, 2009, 08:06:41 PM
The one concern for me is not just Thabeet, but UCONN is one of the few teams in the country that can match MU's quickness.
Noticed that as well. Either that, or UL was playing really slow! hah.
Key is to run Thabeet and tire him out. Back up is out now for academic reasons. UConn's guards are quick but are prone to get in a track meet. We will need Fulce and Otule to mix it up and give us fouls as Adrien is key. If anything, Buzz brought these two guys back just for this game. If they can beat us at home, they deserve the crown....but they have to beat us at home. If so, so be it!
I like that strategy......at least until Hayward picks up his 3rd foul 5 or 6 minutes into the game........ :'(
I like the small ball stuff but what would stop UConn from playing a zone and letting Thabeet sit in the lane.
Quote from: ErickJD08 on February 02, 2009, 10:34:25 PM
I like the small ball stuff but what would stop UConn from playing a zone and letting Thabeet sit in the lane.
Hopefully MU knocking down a ton of 3s of lane pentration and kicks.
Quote from: jmayer1 on February 02, 2009, 11:10:02 PM
Hopefully MU knocking down a ton of 3s of lane pentration and kicks.
My thoughts exactly. Jerel, Wes and Lazar will really have to bring it. Nothing out of the ordinary, right?
I don't post here often but I read the posts on a regular basis. I agree we need to play Lazar at the 5 for stretches. If UConn plays zone, that will only help us(cant believe I'm saying that after whats happened in the past) Lazar and Wes have been incredible at getting the ball at the free throw line and knocking down that little jumper. They will force Thabeet to come out and guard them and that should open it up for our guys to drive to the hoop and kick or take it to the rack and draw fouls. I'm actually hoping they play zone!. On the defensive side, we need to press more than we have all season. We have to run Thabeet and Adrien(even though he is a good athlete, he can tire) to death. From what Ive seen our guys are by far the best conditioned team Ive seen this year and despite my wife's wishes Ive seen a lot of games:)
I enjoy reading this site on a daily basis. Keep up the good work everyone!
We can't press UCONN. They're deeper and more talented. Their guards(especially Kemba Walker and Jerome Dyson) are every bit as quick as MU's. In fact, Walker is faster than any of our guards. He's a blur with the ball that will be a lottery pick. AJ Price is a great PG I may add too. MU cannot afford to press teams that are just as quick/fast as them, much more longer and athletic in the frontcourt, and have a deeper bench. That's a recipe for disaster my friends.
The small ball line-up may work.
I would use the three amigos, Hayward and Butler. They will need to knock down some three's.
Whoever Thabeet is guarding, he will need to roam the perimeter, and knock down some mid to deep shots to bring Thatweet out from under the basket. Of course, UConn could always go zone.
UConn looks like a real monster. They also run the floor well, so I do not believe our transition will be real effective.
UConn will be a real test!!!
The thing about UConn is that they are a nightmare matchup for us. Price, Austrie and Dyson are a great perimeter trio. They are not as good as our 3 seniors, but they are good enough to keep our guards from totally dominating, which we all know is necessary for us to beat top teams. Even forgetting about Thabeet for a moment, we have no real defensive answer for Robinson or particularly Adrien.
To beat them, we will have to hit a high (>50%) percentage of threes, turn them over a bunch and somehow limit them on the offensive boards. Last year they zoned us a little bit and if they do that this year and leave Thabeet to control our penetration, we will absolutely need to get him in foul trouble. I've watched UConn all season, and when they are motivated, like they will be playing us with the Big East regular season title on the line, they are very tough. Calhoun thinks he has a solid national championship contender, and when he does, he lifts his coaching game and does not go on auto-pilot. They LOVE the frenetic pace we want to play and are much bigger and more skilled on the interior. Very, very tough match-up for us.
From what I've seen, the best way to play with UConn is to play ugly, Big 10 style slog ball and try to put them to sleep, not let them get out on the break, etc. That style is not in MU's DNA.
I think part of the reason I have been undervaluing us this year is because I watch so much UConn and just about nobody looks good by comparison.
If UConn is worried about Thabeet roving away from the hoop, coudln't they just go zone then and dare MU to try and penetrate and hit their outside shots? I know it's worked in MU's favor so far this season, but, that may be an option if you are UConn. (I'm not sure how often they play zone, though).
If Thabeet plays like he did last night, we could be in for a world of hurt. However, he has not brought that type of game on a nightly basis throughout his career nor this season.
Since the start of the conference season he has been held under double digits 4X and has had two games of 3 rebounds and 4 others with single digit boards.
He has the ability to dominate, but brings it only about 50% of the time. Let's hope an early foul or two rattles him and we can play our game a bit more.
The problem with going small against UCONN is that their guards are so much better than ND's. We were able to pressure their guards and prevent good entry passes to Harangody. Price, et al are so much quicker and faster than what ND, or Providence, had to offer.
I think what we will have to do is mix it up. 1/2 court pressure...1-3-1... etc. to make them think a little. I'd even try a compact 2-3 like Syracuse to see if their shots are falling. And as other's mentioned, Otule has five fouls to give. Pushing him around a bit might not be a bad strategy.
we don't maych up with Thabeet. so you play small and zone the hell out of them. UCONN was 0-8 from three, and they are not a three point shooting team in general. in fact, they have taken the fewest attempts of any big east team this season. they have two good shooters in walker and price, so maybe you do like a box and one on whoever is in teh game. you don;t press, you clog the lane, and you make them shoot over us. on offense, if they zone us (and Calhoun hates zones) to try and keep thabeet in the lane, fine. i trust hayward, matthews and mcNeal to shoot them out of the zone. UCONN is good, but they are beatable, and we get them at home. their strength is thabeet and adrien. our strength is obvious. bring em on.
Thabeet isn't very good at basketball, he's just unbelievably tall. He's gotten better at moving his feet, but his main benefit is that he doesn't ever leave his feet. Staying on the ground allows him to stay in position and get his hands up. If he plays like he did last night it will be difficult to get him into foul trouble... of course L'ville was trying to post him up, which isn't something we'll bother with :p
He got called a number of times last night for goal tending and basket interference. He also can't pass the ball to save his life, which led to at least one turnover last night.
Getting him away from the basket would be amazing, but getting him out of position with our great ball movement could be nearly as effective. He's only been playing ball for 4 years and his height is a crutch (albeit a very effective crutch). That crutch allows him to not have to be quick or terribly dexterous.
Hopefully we learned from last night that Thabeet loves to gobble up floaters that are tossed over him, so those mid-lane pull-up jumpers/floaters can't be part of our game if Thabeet is in 3-second land.
Quote from: Pardner on February 02, 2009, 08:44:21 PM
Key is to run Thabeet and tire him out. Back up is out now for academic reasons. UConn's guards are quick but are prone to get in a track meet. We will need Fulce and Otule to mix it up and give us fouls as Adrien is key. If anything, Buzz brought these two guys back just for this game. If they can beat us at home, they deserve the crown....but they have to beat us at home. If so, so be it!
Just a UConn fan adding in his two cents... you probably can tire Thabeet out by running him... but the guy who is out for academic reasons is not the primary backup. He was our third or forth big and would probably only have played if we had two or three F/C in foul trouble. Gavin Edwards is our primary backup at the 4/5. His game is actually more suited towards running though... he's good in transition... high energy backup. Can rebound, block shots, and has a good touch around the basket... but is the definition of inconsistent. He's had a couple of solid games for us. In Seattle he was a huge part of our win against Gonzaga for example.
Not to change the thread topic, but I hope other boards are having the same debate in a couple of years regarding matching up with McMorrow. I may be dreaming but a guy can dream right? I would say McMorrow today = Thabeet a couple of years ago.
both are:
7 footers
Foreigners who never really played basketball before
played other sports (soccer in Thabeets case, Hockey and lacrosse in McMorrow's case)
agile and coordinated
I hope Buzz and his staff can develop Liam into a monster.
I think there are only two teams in the country this year that MU just matches up badly with and will struggle mightily. One is NC and the other is UConn. Just a bad, bad matchup for us. Powerful frontline and quick guards that eliminates our pentration and ability to get teams in foul trouble and us to the line.
Going small might be our best option but we will get killed off the boards. Thabeet 7'3" and 263lbs going against Hayward at 6'6" and 225. Than you have Adrien who is just as big or a tad bigger than Hayward with great ability around the hoop. To go small, we need two things to happen, one is that we need to be nailing our 3 point shots and the other is that either Thabeet or Adrien need to somehow get into foul trouble. Problem with that is we won't be able to get within 12 feet of the hoop to create foul opportunities.
If we do go small, all UConn has to do is fall into a zone where they just jump on McNeal and Hayward on any potential 3 point threat. Let DJ take all the open 3s he wants to take and to a lesser extent I would let Matthews bomb away too. Leave Thabeet in the lane to cut off any drives off the overplays on McNeal and Hayward and allow him to clean up the boards.
I would go big with Otule where he can put a body on Thabeet with the idea of getting Thabeet in foul trouble. On the defensive end, Otule can try to put a body on him and maybe get an over the back call on him. On the offensive end, just try to get in the way of Thabeet so we drive to the paint. Our other option would be to try to turn it into a track meet and pickup full court but Louisville couldn't do that to UConn and that is Louisville's bread and butter.
Very daunting task. So how did UConn lose a game? GT jumped UConn with an 18-3 start where they hit 4-5 3 point shots. Monroe was effective against Thabeet. And GT finished the game hitting 18 straight free throws.
Quote from: downtown85 on February 03, 2009, 10:19:15 AM
Not to change the thread topic, but I hope other boards are having the same debate in a couple of years regarding matching up with McMorrow. I may be dreaming but a guy can dream right? I would say McMorrow today = Thabeet a couple of years ago.
both are:
7 footers
Foreigners who never really played basketball before
played other sports (soccer in Thabeets case, Hockey and lacrosse in McMorrow's case)
agile and coordinated
I hope Buzz and his staff can develop Liam into a monster.
I hope either Otule or McMorrow become at least a third option on offense....get a few rebounds...play some defense. I've pretty much given up on any MU center being more than that.
+1 to alot of these strategies. We don't match up well AT ALL, in fact there isn't any team that can really match up with his size. I think 2 approaches are best:
(1) use the mini-me lineup alot, with Acker and Butler, and/or Fulce
(2) run, run, run, and drive and kick for shots. Thabeet has gotten alot better at blocking shots without fouling.
UConn can be beaten...they're stacked, but they can be beaten.
Quote from: mufanatic on February 03, 2009, 11:19:44 AM
I think there are only two teams in the country this year that MU just matches up badly with and will struggle mightily. One is NC and the other is UConn. Just a bad, bad matchup for us.
You should add wake forest to your list. I rather play North Carolina than Wake.
From the little bit I watched UCONN did not respond well to Louisville's press. It gave me hope that our guards with there quickness and length could really cause some problems. Thabeet had trouble catching the ball in transition and when the ball was pressured. He is a beast, no doubt, but we can win that game.
Burke played respectably against monroe. He looks so much bigger than the rest of the starting five. IMO he should go and bang with thabeet allowing Lazar to remain an offensive threat. If Lazar is matched up wth Thabeet he becomes a nonfactor.
For what it's worth, Bilas was on Mike & Mike this morning. Says that UCONN is "the real thing," but...
"Marquette, in my judgment, is the only team that can say 'we've got better guards than Connecticut' and say it with a straight face."
The question, once again, is: are our guards good enough to offset the disparity between our 4/5s and Adrian/Thabeet? Oughtta be fun to find out.
James will have to deliver a similar performance he put up against Deonte Vaughn. McNeal will have to hit at least 75 percent from 3. Lazar will have to rebound like game one vs. Depaul. Mathews will have to play the monster interior defense. Burke can't have 3 fouls until 10 minutes left in the game. And Butler will have to score at least 10.
Everyone is capable of doing those things because it has happened before. The key is to have all of them happen in one game.