MUScoop

http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=11080.0 (http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=11080.0)

Looking at the record book above, the three amigos have their names all over the record books.  As of right now with nearly half a season to go:

Dominic James
- 3rd in assists
- 4th in steals
- 7th in scoring
- 8th in field goals made
- 10th in 3 pointers made
- 11th in games played
- will enter top 10 in free throws made

Jerel McNeal
- 2nd in steals
- 3rd in scoring
- 4th in field goals made
- 10th in assists
- 36th in rebounds
- will enter top 10 in games played

Wesley Matthews
- 2nd in made free throws
- 10th in free throw percentage
- 17th in scoring
- 38th in rebounds
- will enter top 10 in steals and games played

If they get in you could make a case for a few other players including Tony Smith.

Tony Smith
- 4th in free throws made
- 6th in scoring
- 6th in field goals made
- 6th in steals
- 6th in assists

IF they do have their jerseys retired I hope they have it done together.

unfortunately for Wes, one year does not make for a jersey retirement.  DJ has a shot because he will be so highly ranked on multiple career stat lists.  And the way mcneal is playing, he will probably be a 2nd team all-american - maybe first if ASU and Harden keeps slumping and we keep winning.  and that will be enough, coupled with him being the all time leading scorer, to get his number retired.  now, if we do something ridiculous like win the big east AND make it to the final four, Wes and DJ probably get some bonus points, but i don't know.  a jersey retirement should be extrememly hard to obtain.  I think only Mcneal gets it.

unless they are first AA then no. oh, and they have to graduate - which i do not think is an issue with this group.

I voted no, because it is too early for this. There is a lot of season left. also jerseys are generally retired several years after they are done playing.

This group's legacy is already fairly strong, but it will be decided by whether this team wins a BEast Championship and how far they go in the dance.    Also, I think they should be remembered together, not by individual jersey.   I am not sure how, but some symbol of the three of them as a group. 

Problem is, you retire all three and you're going to run out of numbers pretty soon. There's only a finite number of possibilities.

no, they shouldn't be retired.

silly.

I would have voted yes if we weren't trying to compete with the Boston Celtics for most numbers already retired. 

For a team with 3 Final Four appearances I think we've been a bit too gracious with giving out this honor in the past and as such we should be more judicious going forward.

The only one I would say yes to is Jerel.

Quote from: ecompt on February 02, 2009, 08:02:09 AM
Problem is, you retire all three and you're going to run out of numbers pretty soon. There's only a finite number of possibilities.

except we retire the jersey, not the number. Thompson is the only one that has thrown a hissy fit over someone wearing the same number he did.

No we always retired #'s.  The jersey argument was introduced after TC handed out George's number.

I've always felt the concept of having the same number retired multiple times ranks as one of the more lame aspects of the MU basketball program.

Minor - Yes
Lame - Very

If they make a championship, I'll consider it.

Otherwise they need to be a First Team AA.

Quote from: Marquette_g on February 02, 2009, 08:42:50 AM
I've always felt the concept of having the same number retired multiple times ranks as one of the more lame aspects of the MU basketball program.

Minor - Yes
Lame - Very

I think most schools have gone to retiring jerseys.  Retiring #s is silly and lame.  The player is being honored, not the #.

I would say it lessens the honor then.

Quote from: Marquette_g on February 02, 2009, 09:02:20 AM
I would say it lessens the honor then.

You do realize it's not possible nor logical right?

Quote from: marqptm on February 02, 2009, 09:05:01 AM
You do realize it's not possible nor logical right?

What isn't possible or logical about saying that I think it is a bigger honor to never have someone wear your number again rather than simply having my jersey retired and then allowing others to wear that number?

If there were no difference why can't anyone in MLB wear #42?

I would argue that George Thompson shares my view.

Quote from: Marquette_g on February 02, 2009, 09:28:41 AM
What isn't possible or logical about saying that I think it is a bigger honor to never have someone wear your number again rather than simply having my jersey retired and then allowing others to wear that number?

If there were no difference why can't anyone in MLB wear #42?

I would argue that George Thompson shares my view.

If we were to retire numbers, we better stop now, and probably should have never started because there are only so many numbers in college basketball.

Unlike baseball where there is a large pool of numbers. Are you really comparing Jackie Robinson to GT?

If George Thompson can't get over it, then I'm over George Thompson.

I agree that we should have been more judicial since the beginning.

There are plenty of ways to honor players beyond jersey retirements.

You can even honor a whole team by giving away a replica ring statue.

Quote from: Marquette_g on February 02, 2009, 09:28:41 AM
What isn't possible or logical about saying that I think it is a bigger honor to never have someone wear your number again rather than simply having my jersey retired and then allowing others to wear that number?

If there were no difference why can't anyone in MLB wear #42?

I would argue that George Thompson shares my view.

It's not a question of the honor, it's a question of NCAA rules.  In college basketball you only have a limited amount of jersey numbers available.  00, 0-5, 10-15, 20-25, 30-35, 40-45, 50-55.  That's it.  If you are a historically good program, and you retire the number of your great players instead of jersey, at some point you won't have enough numbers for the guys currently on your roster.

The NBA and MLB don't have to worry about that since they have so many more available numbers.

I would suggest maybe we take the approach that North Carolina has.  The truly  elite players have their Numbers retired.

For North Caroilna that is 8 players (Worthy, Jordan, Jaminson, etc.)

For the remainder - 43 for UNC -who are without a doubt outstanding, they get their jersey in the rafters but others can use their number (guys like Stackhouse, Carter, Perkins)

I get that we will run out of numbers.  It is that reason why I voted 'no' in this poll and think that we have bestowed this honor too many times.  Only those transcendent players should get the ultimate honor of never having someone wear a number again.

This seems silly to argue about till we know
1) if we win a BE regular title
2) if we win the BE tourny
3) if we go to the final 4 or further.

2 out of 3 and the argument against one or two getting it seems pretty flimsy

When I presented the question for arguement I meant should they be retired years later in the future. I didn't mean right now.

Quote from: TallTitan34 on February 02, 2009, 10:00:28 AM
When I presented the question for arguement I meant should they be retired years later in the future. I didn't mean right now.

I think they should be retired right now.  Then we can make them wear different numbers the rest of the season because their numbers are retired  ;)

I believe Michael Jordan was fined heavily for switching from 45 to 23 in the middle of the game because 23 was retired.

Quote from: ecompt on February 02, 2009, 08:02:09 AM
Problem is, you retire all three and you're going to run out of numbers pretty soon. There's only a finite number of possibilities.

They don't technically retire numbers in NCAA College Basketball simply because there aren't that many numbers available. The ref has to be able to call a foul on the player and report his number to the stats using two hands.So that means only numbers 0-5, 10-15, 20-25, 30-35, 40-45, 50-55. Its more honored then it is retired...especially for schools with a lot more jerseys retired

Quote from: TallTitan34 on February 02, 2009, 10:10:59 AM
I believe Michael Jordan was fined heavily for switching from 45 to 23 in the middle of the game because 23 was retired.

WRONG

Part Jordan's return contract was that the Bulls had to pay to bring the number out of retirement..

Quote from: marqptm on February 02, 2009, 10:18:06 AM
WRONG

Part Jordan's return contract was that the Bulls had to pay to bring the number out of retirement..

Hate to get into an off-topic who's right-who's wrong war, but the way I remember it, Jordan was fined because it's against NBA rules to switch numbers midseason. He wore 45 for several games, don't forget. The fact that 23 was retired had nothing to do with it.

But back to the original question. I personally find the whole "we retire jerseys, not numbers" thing to be silly. "Retiring" a jersey is a completely meaningless act; what does that actually mean? When Jerel McNeal leaves Marquette, of course nobody is ever going to wear MCNEAL 22 again (unless, I suppose, another kid named McNeal plays for Marquette and wants to wear 22). Retiring a number, on the other hand, has far greater symbolic meaning.

I get that there's a finite number of, er, numbers. That doesn't mean you don't retire numbers, it just means you be far more judicious than we have been in choosing numbers to retire.