I heard that this kid was coming to campus this weekend. Isn't he a 2009 recruit, I thought we had spent all our scholarships already. We lose the four seniors plus Frozena's scholarship comes back. We have Caudogan, Williams, Maymon and Buycks coming in.
I guess I'm confused on whether McMorrow is already using a scholarship or would take that fifth one that will be freed up.
Short answer:
Frozena is not on scholarship. If MU signs Riley, it would be over-committing by 1 scholarship, which is allowed by the Big East. Room would have to be made in that case.
AW, Riley will be on campus this weekend for the GT game. He's a former GT commit that it seems like MU may have a legitimate possibility of getting. If you take a look at the scholarship table, you'll see that you are correct. All MU scholarships for next year are currently accounted for and there has been significant speculation about whether or not someone is leaving for some reason or another. If you check "Riley" in the search bar, you'll see there have been a few threads discussing this very issue.
Its been discussed before, but we are allowed to oversign by one scholarship and then hope it works itself out (recruits being academically inelligible, player transfer, Mo Acker deciding not to come back for his senior year). And yes, McMorrow's scholarship does count for this year. We are just one scholarship short this year because of Mbakwe's transrer.
Either way if we do sign him he will be a big addition to the class.
If anyone needs to leave its cubillan....i hope he transfers and riley takes his spot.
I don't especially like Cubes, but I think it's grossly unfair to say "I hope he transfers".
Quote from: ecompt on January 28, 2009, 02:34:39 PM
I don't especially like Cubes, but I think it's grossly unfair to say "I hope he transfers".
Agreed.
Nor would it make sense for him to transfer with only one year of eligibility remaining. Why would a kid want to sit out a year for the sake of playing one year elsewhere.
Cubillan was a one time valuable player in my estimation. He probably was injured to a degree that it affects his game.
Quote from: patso on January 28, 2009, 02:39:51 PM
Cubillan was a one time valuable player in my estimation. He probably was injured to a degree that it affects his game.
Off season surgery on BOTH shoulders have affected his shot. I'm sure he'll be back to 100% by next season. I don't see Cubillan leaving the team at all.
Quote from: warrior55 on January 28, 2009, 02:29:45 PM
If anyone needs to leave its cubillan....i hope he transfers and riley takes his spot.
We will be light on guards next year and heavy in the front court. If anyone leaves, I would think it it happens there: exhibit #1, Mbakwe.
Cubes is enjoyable to watch and I hope his shooting returns to form soon--if they let Dom and Jerel jack up the ball immediately, they should let Cubes have a shot. !Si se puede David!
Are you kidding me - get rid of Cubes? He could start next year.
Quote from: mviale on January 28, 2009, 03:16:24 PM
Are you kidding me - get rid of Cubes? He could start next year.
ESPN has Buycks at a 94 grade and Coudagan is the #5 PG in the 2009 class. He may start at the beginning of the season but I think Acker, Buycks(taller, can get to the basket, and has an outside shot), and Junior will be ahead of him shortly thereafter.
Quote from: Pakuni on January 28, 2009, 02:37:23 PM
Agreed.
Nor would it make sense for him to transfer with only one year of eligibility remaining. Why would a kid want to sit out a year for the sake of playing one year elsewhere.
Ask Robert Jackson.
Quote from: Phi Iota Gamma 84 on January 28, 2009, 03:22:35 PM
ESPN has Buycks at a 94 grade and Coudagan is the #5 PG in the 2009 class. He may start at the beginning of the season but I think Acker, Buycks(taller, can get to the basket, and has an outside shot), and Junior will be ahead of him shortly thereafter.
It's
waayy too soon for this, but what the hey:
1: Acker; Cadougan
2: Buycks; Butler; Cubillan; Williams
3: Hayward; Fulce; Williams
4. Maymon; Hayward; Roseboro; Hazel
5: Hazel; Otule; McMorrow
Quote from: lurch91 on January 28, 2009, 03:31:21 PM
Ask Robert Jackson.
Very, very different situation.
Jackson was, for all intents, kicked out of the Mississippi State program, so it wasn't as if he chose to leave for more PT.
And, by transferring to MU, was coming home for two years.
no way - acker is a special situation guard, a healthy cubes could start next year and eventually lead to Junior.
Quote from: Pakuni on January 28, 2009, 03:31:57 PM
It's waayy too soon for this, but what the hey:
1: Acker; Cadougan
2: Buycks; Butler; Cubillan; Williams
3: Hayward; Fulce; Williams
4. Maymon; Hayward; Roseboro; Hazel
5: Hazel; Otule; McMorrow
doubtful.
probably more like:
1: Acker; Cadougan; Cubillian
2: Buycks; Williams; Cubillian
3: Hayward; Butler; Fulce; Williams
4. Maymon; Hazel; Roseboro
5: Otule; McMorrow; Hazel
Are you kidding me - get rid of Cubes? He could start next year.
If you seriously believe that, I don't know what to tell you.
I don't understand the fascination with Cubillan from a select few on this board. He provided a nice spark his Freshman year, but he's not a Big East caliber player and he never will be. I have nothing against the guy, and by all account's he's a great kid. I also realize that his recent surgeries and ailments have most certainly hindered his game, but the bottom line is that he will never be a starting guard or a major contributor for MU next year. Frankly, he's lucky to be a backup on a high major program. He can't shoot, can't pass, can't penetrate, can't guard, and can't run an offense.
Cadougan, Buycks, Williams, Butler, and Acker are all ahead of him next year. He will be lucky to get 2 minutes a game. Given that, I won't speculate about him leaving the program.
Cubes is enjoyable to watch???
Maybe two years ago when he actually could shoot and received some playing time. He is nailed to the bench and only plays a brief minute to provide Jerel a rest.
He has done his time, probably is a great practice player and has been a member of the team for three years. I hope he is not "run out of town" and he can enjoy his senior year. Would love to have Riley or Wilson, but not at the expense of a student-athlete who has done nothing wrong but lose his shooting touch.
agreed - that is where I am. Let Cubes get some serious playing time pre-conference and see where things fall.
Quote from: mviale on January 28, 2009, 03:35:19 PM
no way - acker is a special situation guard, a healthy cubes could start next year and eventually lead to Junior.
When has Cubillan ever shown the ability to be a point guard? Starting him over Acker or Cadougan or even Buycks would be a disaster.
Quote from: mviale on January 28, 2009, 03:35:19 PM
no way - acker is a special situation guard, a healthy cubes could start next year and eventually lead to Junior.
Healthy or not, Cubillan is NOT a point guard, especially in this offense which relies on the point to primarily be a facilitator and distributor. Acker has shown the past few games he's up to that task. Mo may eventually lose out to Cadougan, but I'd be stunned if he were riding the pine behind Cubie.
Quote from: Hards_Alumni on January 28, 2009, 03:40:27 PM
doubtful.
probably more like:
1: Acker; Cadougan; Cubillian
2: Buycks; Williams; Cubillian
3: Hayward; Fulce; Butler; Williams
4. Maymon; Hazel; Roseboro
5: Otule; McMorrow; Hazel
Doubtful? We have the same starting lineup, sans Otule (who's shown us what, exactly, to indicate he's a starter-in-waiting?) over Hazel at the five.
Butler right now is leading the team in minutes off the bench (mostly out of postion, to boot), so I'm not sure he'd be relegated to backing up a player he currently is ahead of on the depth chart.
Quote from: mviale on January 28, 2009, 03:35:19 PM
no way - acker is a special situation guard, a healthy cubes could start next year and eventually lead to Junior.
What makes you think that Cubillan will ever be a productive player again for MU?
The last time he was playing at a high level and was a consistent contributor was early last season. Cubillan had a few nice games last year in Big East play, but for the most part he made little impact. This season, he has been a complete non-factor.
More than just getting health, Cubillan needs to regain his confidence and moxie. Will that happen next year at MU, I'm not so sure.
Riley has a HS game this Saturday so it is unlikely he will be on campus. I think Rosiak got that wrong. Looking at his HS team's schedule the weekend for the visit that seems most likely is Feb 14, the St. Johns game since his team does not play that weekend.
I would rather have Fulce leave. There is no indication that he will ever play. According to this board, his playing time is dictated by his tolerance to the pain. And the injury will not get better or worse. IF he isn't tolerating the pain now, it seems like he never will.
Don't get me wrong, I like the way he plays but if he can't play, why is he taking up a scholly?
Quote from: Pakuni on January 28, 2009, 03:52:38 PM
Doubtful? We have the same starting lineup, sans Otule (who's shown us what, exactly, to indicate he's a starter-in-waiting?) over Hazel at the five.
Butler right now is leading the team in minutes off the bench (mostly out of postion, to boot), so I'm not sure he'd be relegated to backing up a player he currently is ahead of on the depth chart.
Pakuni, you can't be serious. Why would Hazel (6'7 220) EVER start as the 5? what has he shown offensively that proves he can do ANYTHING against a 5 on defense?
now, Otule hasn't shown much but he was injured, was he not? I'll take a shot on a guy who has been injured and we haven't seen much of (aka unproven that he sucks), over a guy who is 2 inches too small to play the position and has proven that he can't play it.
Butler is going to be a back up... he doesn't have the talent to be a starter. He is Dwight Burke if he starts.
Agree - I want more news on Fulce. Pre-season reports indicated he was a playa and he gets less time than Hazel.
What up?
Quote from: ErickJD08 on January 28, 2009, 04:01:41 PM
Don't get me wrong, I like the way he plays but if he can't play, why is he taking up a scholly?
Because the university offered him a scholarship.
I'm well aware that scholies are only year-to-year contracts, but I'd be embarrassed if MU cut a kid loose - a kid who's already been to three schools in three years - and forced him to leave college altogether because of an unfortunate injury.
Jeez I hope someone gets the official visit date straight. Was last week, but cancelled cause team was leaving right away, this week, now someone posts Riley has a game on date of visit? That makes no sense. Maybe he is waiting for March 9, when Jamil Wilson tells everyone where he wants to go. To continue recruiting like he has, Buzz probably knows someone is leaving or not getting in. If a player leaves I hope it is on his terms. The speculation will soon be over.
QuoteI would rather have Fulce leave.
You can't be serious
Cubillan has shown he is completely out of place, and there is no way he will get drastically better in a year.
Fulce got injured and has much more upside in the big east than a guard who can't shoot, pass or defend to save his life.
The Providence game showed what Fulce can do. He can come into a game, on the road, in the big east, and perform as a good backup. Cubillan gets in, bricks a three, gets beat to the hole, and then gets pulled.
He is almost as bad as having frozena out there
Quote from: Hards_Alumni on January 28, 2009, 04:05:41 PM
Pakuni, you can't be serious. Why would Hazel (6'7 220) EVER start as the 5? what has he shown offensively that proves he can do ANYTHING against a 5 on defense?
now, Otule hasn't shown much but he was injured, was he not? I'll take a shot on a guy who has been injured and we haven't seen much of (aka unproven that he sucks), over a guy who is 2 inches too small to play the position and has proven that he can't play it.
Butler is going to be a back up... he doesn't have the talent to be a starter. He is Dwight Burke if he starts.
1. Hazel is undersized, but has acquitted himself decently in his limited playing time, particularly on defense. It's less than an ideal situation, but he's certainly shown us more than Otule. And apparently Buzz Williams and the coaching staff feel the same, given the distribution of playing time even since Otule got healthy. I'd love for Otule to develop like gangbusters over the summer and win a starting job, but until he shows that he's ready for that, I'll leave him on the bench rather than throw him out there and hope for the best.
2. I don't have Butler starting but, unlike you, I also don't have him as the third backup out of position.
aint no way in heck Cubi is leaving, we will need him next year to provide leadership and depth. Buzz would never ask him to leave before his senior year, period!
When will this board understand or maybe even listen? to What Buzz has said? Does anyone listen to his shows? Bueller, Bueller? He has stated ad nauseum thet Otule and Fulce due to missing all the time are playing at the level of Freshmen in October or Novemeber and that he will not pu them in these big time games because they are not ready and it will also crush there confidence. he has said time after time he will not put them into situations that he does not feel they will be successful. Can no one understnad that? Does anyone think Otule's performance against Depaul was good for him? Does anyone think putting Fulce in to guard Harangody and getting beat up by an All-American would be good for Fulce or would it have helped Mu in it's attempt to win?
Buzz has commented on numerous occasions on those two what more are some of you looking for?
Most logical player to leave is Hazel, he will be the 4th string 5, and the 4th string 4 as a junior if he stays. He would still have two years of eleigibility and could use the transfer year to become a better player for a A-10 type school or MEAC or something closer to home.
Quote from: Hards_Alumni on January 28, 2009, 03:40:27 PM
5: Otule; McMorrow; Hazel
Good dialogue in this thread.
If we are lucky enough to land a Riley commitment, then obviously someone's minutes are going to be cut at the '5'....
From what I have seen in person over here in Motown, this guy is not a classic 5. Far from it. He is much more of an athletic 4. He can't weigh much more than 210 lbs on his best day. His frame though could easily hold another 20 lbs. His athleticism is off the charts but with a lot of talented big guys in high school, he loses his focus a lot.
It would be interesting though to see what Buzz and crew could get out of him.
Go Warriors.
Quote from: Pakuni on January 28, 2009, 04:18:05 PM
1. Hazel is undersized, but has acquitted himself decently in his limited playing time, particularly on defense. It's less than an ideal situation, but he's certainly shown us more than Otule. And apparently Buzz Williams and the coaching staff feel the same, given the distribution of playing time even since Otule got healthy. I'd love for Otule to develop like gangbusters over the summer and win a starting job, but until he shows that he's ready for that, I'll leave him on the bench rather than throw him out there and hope for the best.
No way Hazel starts at the 5 next year. MU can't get by with inexperienced guards AND no height...
No way do Cubillan and Hazel start, unless we want to be a conference bottom feeder. If necessary, you start Maymon at the 5 over Hazel. And please forget about Jamil Wilson. He's not coming to MU!
They will be given a chance to start the year until they lose it.
Which will be approximately 5 minutes after the start of the first practice.
Quote from: MR.HAYWARD on January 28, 2009, 04:49:45 PM
aint no way in heck Cubi is leaving, we will need him next year to provide leadership and depth. Buzz would never ask him to leave before his senior year, period!
When will this board understand or maybe even listen? to What Buzz has said? Does anyone listen to his shows? Bueller, Bueller? He has stated ad nauseum thet Otule and Fulce due to missing all the time are playing at the level of Freshmen in October or Novemeber and that he will not pu them in these big time games because they are not ready and it will also crush there confidence. he has said time after time he will not put them into situations that he does not feel they will be successful. Can no one understnad that? Does anyone think Otule's performance against Depaul was good for him? Does anyone think putting Fulce in to guard Harangody and getting beat up by an All-American would be good for Fulce or would it have helped Mu in it's attempt to win?
Buzz has commented on numerous occasions on those two what more are some of you looking for?
Most logical player to leave is Hazel, he will be the 4th string 5, and the 4th string 4 as a junior if he stays. He would still have two years of eleigibility and could use the transfer year to become a better player for a A-10 type school or MEAC or something closer to home.
Otule's performance against DePaul was great for him. If you are afraid to put a kid in because he might make some mistakes, how is anyone going to get better? As long as we are not putting him in losing situations (situation where we know he will fail, like up against Gody) I am fine with his PT. As for Fulce, where was he at the DePaul game? Our whole team was sleep walking that game and you don't think Fulce could have gotten some quality minutes.
Quote from: ErickJD08 on January 28, 2009, 09:29:25 PM
Otule's performance against DePaul was great for him. If you are afraid to put a kid in because he might make some mistakes, how is anyone going to get better? As long as we are not putting him in losing situations (situation where we know he will fail, like up against Gody) I am fine with his PT. As for Fulce, where was he at the DePaul game? Our whole team was sleep walking that game and you don't think Fulce could have gotten some quality minutes.
he's had flashes and he knows the offense and can perform in it. No way is Joe gone next year, especially after following Buzz on multiple occasions. He will be improved next year.
Quote from: muwarrior87 on January 28, 2009, 09:33:32 PM
he's had flashes and he knows the offense and can perform in it. No way is Joe gone next year, especially after following Buzz on multiple occasions. He will be improved next year.
Trust me, I thought he looked great but I don't want a player who is going to be "hurt" all year long. If he can't play, its not fair to the team or the program.
Quote from: ErickJD08 on January 28, 2009, 09:39:57 PM
Trust me, I thought he looked great but I don't want a player who is going to be "hurt" all year long. If he can't play, its not fair to the team or the program.
injuries like Joe's take a while to heal and get used to playing through pain. Given the time, I honestly think he will be a big contributor for the team
Quote from: muwarrior87 on January 28, 2009, 09:33:32 PM
he's had flashes and he knows the offense and can perform in it. No way is Joe gone next year, especially after following Buzz on multiple occasions. He will be improved next year.
+1
Buzz and Joe obviously have built a strong relationship if Joe has stayed loyal. Buzz would never turn his back on Joe. It's building strong relationships that forms the basis for recruiting. Would we want Buzz to cut him loose and start burning bridges in the fertile recruiting ground that is Texas? Plus, wasn't Joe a highly rated JC player? Didn't someone compare him to Shawn Marion? I think he needs time to heal and get his "hops" back. He will be much improved next year.
-1 Or not
I am not sure we want Riley to visit for the Georgetown game. Why give him a chance to reconsider Georgetown. Freshmen point guards scare me. If Cadougan cannot handle the ball then Aker will be starting. It also may take some time for Cadougan to adjust to the college game. Look at Taylor on Wisconsin's team. In November and December when he came in he seemed to be a turnover just waiting to happen. The last couple of games he is starting to look good and personally I would be starting him over Hughes. While that part might be debateable, it is certainly clear that he is now a much better game player then he was at the beginning of the season. In my opinion we better fully enjoy this season, because next year is going to be DePaul like.
Is everyone assuming the tall foreign hockey player will be able to get minutes next year? I think McMorrow's upside is good compared to where he's currently at, but geez.. Riley would be HUGE for us.
As I posted earlier, Riley has a game on Saturday ( 7 30 pm tip off) so I highly doubt he will be visiting Milwaukee on Saturday for the Georgetown game. His high school has weekend games for the next few weeks until Feb 14th. Reread Rosiak's blog after the Depaul game where he suggests but does not confirm the possible visit for the Georgetown game.
Quote from: bilsu on January 28, 2009, 10:42:32 PM
In my opinion we better fully enjoy this season, because next year is going to be DePaul like.
Whoa.... have you seen Depaul. We will most definitely fall off next year, but with three top 100 recruits we'll be fine.
Quote from: MR.HAYWARD on January 28, 2009, 04:49:45 PM
aint no way in heck Cubi is leaving, we will need him next year to provide leadership and depth. Buzz would never ask him to leave before his senior year, period!
Most logical player to leave is Hazel, he will be the 4th string 5, and the 4th string 4 as a junior if he stays. He would still have two years of eleigibility and could use the transfer year to become a better player for a A-10 type school or MEAC or something closer to home.
Have to agree with Hayward. Hazel is the most logical player to leave as won't see any playing time going forward. Otule and McMorrow will man the 5 and Maymon, Fulce, Roseboro and Hayward will man the 4 next year. Buzz has mentioned on numerous occasions that Hazel doesn't have the skill set necessary to compete in Big East. He is playing this year out of necessity. Now having said that I don't think Buzz will force him out but if Hazel wants playing time he will have to look elsewhere.
Quote from: Pakuni on January 28, 2009, 04:10:12 PM
Because the university offered him a scholarship.
I'm well aware that scholies are only year-to-year contracts, but I'd be embarrassed if MU cut a kid loose - a kid who's already been to three schools in three years - and forced him to leave college altogether because of an unfortunate injury.
That's what I was wondering. Don't some schools have scholarships for players who get injured and can't come back to the team because of the injury? I remember Iman Schupert mentioned that that was one of the reasons he chose Georgia Tech. It would allow the athlete to finish his degree without eating a scholarship from the team. I would imagine football schools have such scholarships. Does MU have any such schollies?
Quote from: Pakuni on January 28, 2009, 04:18:05 PM
1. Hazel is undersized, but has acquitted himself decently in his limited playing time, particularly on defense. It's less than an ideal situation, but he's certainly shown us more than Otule. And apparently Buzz Williams and the coaching staff feel the same, given the distribution of playing time even since Otule got healthy. I'd love for Otule to develop like gangbusters over the summer and win a starting job, but until he shows that he's ready for that, I'll leave him on the bench rather than throw him out there and hope for the best.
2. I don't have Butler starting but, unlike you, I also don't have him as the third backup out of position.
In Buzz's offense his plan is to have a PG, a Big man, and 3 atheletes... am I wrong?
so how can anyone in the 2-4 postions really be out of position?
Butler plays more stiff than I would like any 2 to play, but that could just be the learning curve.
either way, I don't see him starting anywhere.
As for Hazel, there seems to be a pretty strong consensus that he won't be starting... let alone playing much next year.
Quote from: ErickJD08 on January 28, 2009, 09:29:25 PM
Otule's performance against DePaul was great for him. If you are afraid to put a kid in because he might make some mistakes, how is anyone going to get better? As long as we are not putting him in losing situations (situation where we know he will fail, like up against Gody) I am fine with his PT. As for Fulce, where was he at the DePaul game? Our whole team was sleep walking that game and you don't think Fulce could have gotten some quality minutes.
Playing time in games is earned bu demostrting the ability to contribute and succeed during PRACTICE. It is that little thing this team does for a few hours ever day that you do not see them on the television. It is the same thing that JOE and Chris missed for almost two months, it is the same thing that is needed to perform at the same level as the players that are playing. It is the same thing that they have missed that has BUzz saying on numerous occasions that has them playing as though it were October. MAybe you would run the team differently, but I think most coaches that are in the hunt for a Big East championship are not going to play first year players that have missed almost the enitre season unless the game is out of hand. The deapul game was not out of hand. Did you not witness Joe Fulces defense against Providence? It looked like Jimmy Butler's in Novemeber. Do you really think Buzz should have played him when we were struggling and only up 6-8 against Depaul? Should Buzz have played him up 3 or down 3 against ND? The players will play when they demonstarte to Buzz in Practice that they will provide a lift or at a minimum not a dramatic falloff when they go in. Neither has done that. Now I am sure your silly comment will be "well how would we know", Through Practice...which you dont see. Did you think Otule coming in and turning the ball over and then running down on defense and falling over while his man scored was a good situation for his confidence or did it help Mu pit deapul away in it's attempt to win the BE?
This Fulce and Otule not playing is so stupid. Buzz williams wants to win and no differnt than any coach in America at any levle is going to play the players that best help the team to that affect. If they wish to play and demostrate the ability to help the team during Practice, they will play. Very simple no so sure why everyone is stuglling with this great Otule Fule myth.
Gotta agree with Mr. Hayward on this one.
Right now you have a basic 8-man rotation, which is all you really need at this point in the season. Five starters plus Acker, Hazel and Butler. If you have to, you can get a couple of minutes here and there with Cubes, Otule and Fulce. If Otule and Fulce practice hard during the off-season, they will get major minutes next year...they aren't ready right now.