As a more recent MU grad, it seems like the generation that watched Al coach against Digger is more into the MU v. Notre Dame rivalry than the people at school now. When I was there, it was a little bit more special than the average Big East game because typically we all know someone at Notre Dame, whereas very few of us have buddies at Syracuse, UConn, or South Florida to call up and talk about the game. However, I also felt like the students were most excited to play Louisville or Pitt. Wisconsin was exciting on the day of the game, but it seems like the Badger fans dwell on their win or loss against us much more than Marquette fans do.
I was a pretty big fan, and it just did not seem like a huge rivalry for me. Being from Chicago, I know that half of the Irish Catholic kids from Chicago also applied to ND and there is a love/hate relationship no matter who you are in Chicago when Notre Dame comes up.
I am curious if the rivalry is just because both teams are in the same conference and both are good (which would be the same as if South Florida was ranked where ND is) or were the games in the 70s and 80s heated games producing a good rivalry?
Quote from: HoopsMalone on January 26, 2009, 04:39:53 PM
I am curious if the rivalry is just because both teams are in the same conference and both are good (which would be the same as if South Florida was ranked where ND is) or were the games in the 70s and 80s heated games producing a good rivalry?
From 87-91 I think ND really stood out as the biggest rivalry. We hated Digger and always circled the game on the calendar. We only beat ND once when I was at Marquette, and it was a Saturday morning game just before finals. It was great.
By the way, I still hate Digger. What the hell is the deal with the matching tie and highlighter? There were a lot of rumors about Digger when I was at Marquette. One was that Digger called O'Neil when he got the job and made a comment along the lines of, "congratulations, you just inhereted the worst fans in the country." Another was that for a while Digger refused to play Marquette in Milwaukee except when the students were on Christmas break because we were so bad (someone had poured beer on him or something). The one time we did beat them he had agreed to play during school, as long as the game was in the morning -- I think we started at 11:00 a.m -- so we wouldn't be drunk. If that was the reason for the early start time, he underestimated our resolve. We were at the Gym at 7:00.
Digger was and has been a complete horse's ass since he stabbed Fordham in the back back in 1971. He had something like 14 NBA players while at Notre Dame and made ONE Final Four. An absolute joke as a coach.
As a current student from the chicago area, I hate notre dame with an intense burning passion. I get this same feeling from people around campus as well. I mean, its really hard not to hate harangody, first of all. Just look at him. And Mike Brey's god awful t-shirt sport coat combo with that slicked back hair. He just feels evil. The games have been tight, except that exhilirating destruction at home last year, and entertaining. THey've been just about as good as MU has the last couple of years, so there's that to help it have a rivalry feel.
But personally, I really hate the team because everyone from my high school that I despised or thought was a jerk ended up going to notre dame. And all the kids I hated at MU my frosh/soph years would be the ones cheering loudly in the dorms for notre dame football, back when they weren't as terrible. Maybe i am just a misanthrope, which is probably the case, but something about notre dame, its students and fans makes me hate them. It's mostly a smugness, entitlement, and obliviousness. And it just oozes out. I mean, my grandpa went to notre dame and taught there, and hes the only member of my family i dont like.
BUt on campus, notre dame is a big game. People hate them, and love to see em lose. And I personally did not know about any sort of history, i just knew they were evil and must be destroyed. But Pitino and louisville and devendorf at syracuse run distant in my top 3 hated big east rivals. Pitt and Uconn aren't very hateable, but they're good teams so its exciting
Quote from: ecompt on January 26, 2009, 04:57:17 PM
Digger was and has been a complete horse's ass since he stabbed Fordham in the back back in 1971. He had something like 14 NBA players while at Notre Dame and made ONE Final Four. An absolute joke as a coach.
You got that right, brother. Sometime, ask Hank Raymonds about the nasty gamesmanship Phelps pulled on MU when we played at their place, ie. turning up the heat to furnace-like temps in the visiting lockerroom, etc.
Another recent MU grad here ('06), and for me, ND is the #2 game on the calendar every year after Wisconsin.
1.) Wisconsin
2.) ND
3.) Louisville
4.) Pitt
A DISTANT 5.) Everyone else
1997 grad here.
ND was a VERY CLOSE second to Wisconsin before the Big East, but they have to be in a TIE with the WI now.
What also fuels the ND disdain is the fact that I went to school with ND lovers as well as ND rejects.
When I was in school, ND wasn't even really a rival because we played them one time. There was always talk about how it used to be a rivalry, but we viewed it the same way we viewed DePaul...a team that used to be important to MU that no longer mattered.
Cincy was by far the biggest rival, with Louisville and Wisconsin a close second.
QuoteOne was that Digger called O'Neil when he got the job and made a comment along the lines of, "congratulations, you just inhereted the worst fans in the country."
Hate to break it to you, but Digger loves MU and has loved MU for years. He may act like a jerk in public, but behind the scenes he was always a fan. He applied for the MU job when Al retired and they wouldn't give it to him. He wanted it again when Hank left, but they had already settled on Majerus. He was a little burned by that, but he still has been a MU fan all along.
Quote from: notkirkcameron on January 26, 2009, 05:45:18 PM
Another recent MU grad here ('06), and for me, ND is the #2 game on the calendar every year after Wisconsin.
1.) Wisconsin
2.) ND
3.) Louisville
4.) Pitt
A DISTANT 5.) Everyone else
Recent Grad (06) here too. I have to disagree with your rankings.
My top 5 most hated schools (so would be biggest rivalry) would be
1) Louisville- dates all the way back to CUSA times. Can't stand Pitino
2) Duke - I just hate them. MU never plays them but when they do I love beating them
3) ND
4) WI
I put WI low because while I love beating them, I still cheer for them after MU beats them (helps out MU's strength of schedule). Not to mention when MU is out of the tourney and if WI is still in it, I cheer for them. Being born and raised in WI, it's always good to see some program do well. Speaks for the state if more than 1 team can have a good season. So after we beat them I like to see them win, but seeing them lose is always good because it shuts up the nay-sayers out west there saying in March that they coulda shoulda woulda way back early in the season
ND is a big rivalry though. Maybe not for you current students who don't understand the history behind it, but for those of us growing up MU fans, we hate em and understand the history. Even though I was very young, I was a fan and did not like ND.
Plus they are complete douchebags. Been trying to find that picture of them all putting sun-screen on each other on a boat somewhere. Hilarious
Class of 2010 here, and I hate ND. I think part of it is that my parents are 77 grads and I was raised with the rivalry. Even without that upbringing, how could I not? Mike Brey and his freaking hair and mock turtlenecks. Shrek and his whining. Shrek's family that all looks the same. McAlarney. Their stuck up fans. It's not hard. Also, I'd say this game is pretty big on campus. Independent of all surrounding situation (rankings, home/away, etc.) I'd say ND is 2nd to Wisconsin in general.
For me personally,
1. ND
2. Badgers
3. Louisville
4. ND again
5. Jamar Nutter
Digger getting beer spilled on him is not a rumor. I was really close to it when it happened.
Giving Digger a little bit of wiggle room, I was there when we broke out in the chant, "Digger beats his wife"... not proud of it, but we did it.
I think there was also the "we did Digger's daughter chant"
86 grad here - the rivalry was intense back in our day. David Rivers just killed us - remember his last second shot to beat us and then him/Digger doing the jig at half court. You could just feel the crowd surging forward towards them, thought we would've killed them if we could of gotten to them.
I remember that chant "Digger beats his wife" and I couldn't agree more with tower912 - beating ND away is a great victoryf or the team and the program. ND vs. MU was the Monday night game of the week...
Part of the rivalry is the fact the Notre Dame is (or was) considered to be the Catholic University.
Quote from: SonofPianoMan on January 26, 2009, 08:35:35 PM
Giving Digger a little bit of wiggle room, I was there when we broke out in the chant, "Digger beats his wife"... not proud of it, but we did it.
I remember Spring Break at the Button in Ft Lauderdale in 83, when they announced the NCAA field. Marquette made it, Notre Who did not. ND students were there in the Button (for those too young, they used to pit schools against each other in various games like beer chugging and vegatible eating). Still remember the chants of "NC Double A, Digger Phelps is gay." (Not that there's anything wrong with it). ;D
I was student '79-'83 and despised them Doc Rivers from half court to win it on the saturday before the start of the second semester - freakin' awesome. Great rivalry throughout the 70's as well.
'98 grad here. I'm originally from Wisconsin, not Irish, not Catholic, and didn't know any ND fans growing up. Everyone I knew was a Badgers fan, including myself growing up. Call me naive or whatever, but when I got to MU, I was stunned at all the students that cheered for ND and how popular they were. It was like they were MU's own team. I didn't get it. We didn't go there, why were so many cheering for them? That's when I started disliking them. And Wisconsin. Once I began classes at Marquette, not gonna cheer for anyone else. All other loyalties be damned.
That said, I didn't feel much of a rivalry per se with ND. I didn't know anyone who went there. They weren't in conference. They were never on my radar of schools to go to. I did know people who went to Wisconsin though, and all my family and friends back home were Badgers fans. I hate all they hype they get in Wisconsin, even more than us at times in our own hometown Milwaukee, and listening to all their nonsense that I should like their football team because we don't have one. No way. I 150% believe that as their football team goes, so go the rest of their teams and athletic dept, so I will not root for them in any case in any sport. I will never betray MU and become a fan of another school in anything.
Now that I got that off my chest (whew), my order goes:
1. Wisconsin. My most hated team in all sports, pro or college.
2. Louisville. I can't even root for them in non-conf. Pitino's a jag.
3. Pitt - They're just dirty
4. Any team coached by Bobby Huggins
5. ND - no hatred, but it feels more fun to beat them for some reason
It was the biggest rivalry in the late '70's- even more than DePaul. We all hated those guys - part of it was because we all knew someone who knew someone at ND.
We got at Digger, and I've told the story before on the board about the big, bad forward who ended up puking off the front porch of the Sig Ep house (one of my favorite memories) after one of the games...
I'm an @sshole, i'm an @sshole i'm an @sshole all the same...but i'd rather be an @sshole than go to Notre Dame.
I'm an @sshole, i'm an @sshole, i'm an @sshole all my life...but i'd rather be an @sshole than have to sleep w/ Digger's wife.
Digger had a fit in the late 80's when Donald Royal had a beer dumped on him at halftime. In typical fashion, Digger made a big deal out of it and said Royal had to have his eyes washed out or something. He made it sound like MU fans threw acid in his face.
People tend to forget that MU, ND, and DP were independents until we joined the MCC. Ray Meyer, Digger Phelps and AL were the marketing team that helped all of us get TV time. These guys had to create excitement or they wouldn't be able to recruit or get tv time.
Digger was such an a$$ that he would never light up the opposing teams name on their corner scoreboards. He was such a huge jagoff that ND's fans would tell you the same. I had buddies that went to his bball camp and said that he would barely show up and then would proceed to act like a bigshot.
Digger also had a shoe contract with Pony so you always had to see him on tv. It was our biggest rivalry back then but then it turned into Cin.. ND also wouldn't play us for awhile when they first joined the BE or just afterwards.
I think this thread is interesting as there certainly seems to be some pretty interesting differences in how the rivalry is viewed. When I was in school there was little doubt that Cincy was the biggest rivalry. They were always good, there was the Huggy factor, and the general thuggery of it all. Given that they've fallen a good deal in the last decade I think my list has been revised:
1. UW
2. Pitt
3. Louisville
4. ND
5. Cindy
For some reason the St. John's games tend to get a little chippy as well, even though our recent history with them isn't overly robust.
Again, I had 2 brothers graduate from ND and 2 sisters that graduated from St. Mary's (but were in the ND marching band/pep band). Every Domer I ran into while at MU always assumed that I didnt' follow the family tradation of going to ND because I wasn't smart enough.
Every Domer assumes people go to other colleges and universities because they couldn't get into Notre Dame. That smugness is why I hate Domers, and their fans.
Edit: And yes, loosing 14-16 straight games to ND in the 80's didn't help either.
Quote from: tower912 on January 26, 2009, 08:25:13 PM
Digger getting beer spilled on him is not a rumor. I was really close to it when it happened.
Oh to have been old enough to have spilled beer on the ND team in the MECCA.....
I could only wish.
And just to clarify, was it really "spilled"? Did it have any horizonal tendancy when it hit Digger? Or was it really all vertical?
I do not recall the incident of which you speak. ;D
Quote from: tower912 on January 27, 2009, 11:23:41 AM
I do not recall the incident of which you speak. ;D
So you were very near the incident, but have no recollection. Sure tower. Lemme guess, you also hadn't yet learned that pouring beer on someone is "alcohol abuse" - even if it's d@mn funny, directed towards digger, and talked about for decades ;D
My room mate is as hardcore ND as they come....I actually had to watch the game somewhere else because if we would've watched it together, I'm sure we would have come to blows and that's not exaggerating by any means. He still hasn't said a word to me yet since the game ended. That being said, I still absolutely HATE the badgers. If I had to choose between a W over them or a W over ND, I'd take a win over Wisconsin any day of the year. Unless it was this year....when we swept em both! Ring out ahoya
My Dad went to ND and I was a big fan of theirs growing up. I never understood why people disliked as they represented the best of college, great school, clean program and graduated all their players.
It wasn't until I went to MU that I realized why people disliked them so much. Some of the fans are nuts, including those that went to Marquette. But I still don't hate them and they wouldn't make my top 10 of rivals. I have no problem with Brey or the rest of their players outside of Harangody, who I genuinely dislike. I'd rather beat these teams due to either their slimy coaches or dirty players.
1) Louisville (Hate Pitino)
2) Pitt (Hate Fields and Len Elmore)
3) Syracuse (Boeheim and Devendorf)
4) Cincinnati (Huggins residue)
5) UConn (Calhoun needs some anger mgmnt courses)
6) Seton Hall (Gonzalez is a dirt bag)
Favorite other Big East school;
1) Villanova (like Wright and his players. Good solid program)
I disliked ND just like any MU alum in good standing, but it wasn't until their football team was here at the Air Force Academy that I truly learned to despise their fans.
Especially the ones that obviously didn't go there. Jerks in green and gold capes, face paint, disparaging and rubbing the final score to some of the most cordial fans in sport. Military retirees, veterans, and active duty just shook their heads and didn't say a word back to those jacka$$es.
ND fans may have tried to pin the classless label on our guys visiting their arena last night, but we all know the truth. I know I do.
MUinCO, I don't understand the classless comments. The one thing I saw that may have ticked some people off was the jump and fall to the ground that the Amigos pulled off on the way off the court. Even then the arena was clearing out fairly quickly so it didn't seem like that big of deal as there were very few people even looking at the court (I barely caught it). The one that really gets me is the call that "We Are Marquette" was classless. This is a cheer that simply shows pride in our team. There is no disparagement to anyone else and is simply a pride thing. To call that classless indicates that an opposing fan is expected to sit on their hands and watch the game silently. I dunno but that kind of defeats the purpose of being a fan.
I would agree that Digger is a huge Pompous ass. I remeber in the 70' he used to wear a full length fur coat. I also was at a golf course once and saw him buying golf balls in the pro shop. He walks up to the counter, I am like 15 feet away looking at a shirt or something and he says. "I need to get some golf balls" The young girl probbaly 17-20 working a summer job say "Ok' what kind do you want?" And i do not know if he did it bacuse his dog just died or his insecurity gave him the need to intimidate the girl, but he pounds the counter (and in his best think psyco bobby knight) just goes beserk..."I ONLY PLAY THE BEST" the girl like completely shaken and afraid and trying to smile, says "ok what are those" or something like that. he pounds the counter agaisn and screams it even louder. At that time the head pro who was ont he other side of the shop and obviously had not seen him come in runs over there puts his hand on her shoulder guides her away and says "iwill take care of it" he reches under the counter and pulls out a dozen Pro v1's. Digger goes into nice guy mode and the Pro is effusive in his apologies. digger turns around and walks by me on his way out, I wish i had stopped him and let him know what he was.
with that said he was one hell of a coach had ND really rolling for a while depsite their lack of NCAA success, his teams did beaoce much less strong as time went by I think he lost some of his fire and became more concerned with digger than his ball club.
Quote from: romey on January 26, 2009, 10:42:35 PM
I was student '79-'83 and despised them Doc Rivers from half court to win it on the saturday before the start of the second semester - freakin' awesome. Great rivalry throughout the 70's as well.
I was a student exact same four years. We had great success against ND, as we beat them our freshman through junior years (including Doc's three point bomb), but we blew a lead late at home our senior year which kept us from the four year sweep.
I always thought ND, DePaul, Dayton and Louisville were our biggest rivals and were the games I most looked forward to since they were the best teams we played year in and year out while I was there. I'm not from Wisconsin so the UW game didn't mean much to me back then.
Its a good day whenever Notre Dame gets beat.
Its a great day when its Marquette doing the beating!
BTW - My favorite MU tee shirt: "Notre Who?"
Beer was cheap back then and it is possible that someone near me found a better use than consumption for their barley pop.
Quote from: CTWarrior on January 27, 2009, 04:17:39 PM
I was a student exact same four years. We had great success against ND, as we beat them our freshman through junior years (including Doc's three point bomb), but we blew a lead late at home our senior year which kept us from the four year sweep.
I always thought ND, DePaul, Dayton and Louisville were our biggest rivals and were the games I most looked forward to since they were the best teams we played year in and year out while I was there. I'm not from Wisconsin so the UW game didn't mean much to me back then.
Clarification - no 3 point shot in college until - what was it '86?
I'd look it up before believing me, but I seem to recall the three pointer came in the season NC State (Sidney Lowe, etc...) won the Championship. '83 or '84?
Quote from: romey on January 27, 2009, 08:10:08 PM
Clarification - no 3 point shot in college until - what was it '86?
Of course you're right. Rivers hit a 30-35 footer at the buzzer to beat ND my sophomore year, which would have been January 1981, but it was only a two-pointer.
Quote from: romey on January 27, 2009, 08:10:08 PM
Clarification - no 3 point shot in college until - what was it '86?
I believe the 85-86 season was the first season for the three. I believe this because Pop Sims was the same age as myself and he was excited about the 3 pointer before his Soph season. This was in spite of the fact that he wasn't a very good outside shooter his freshman year.
The reason I think it was around 86 was that indiana won the NCAA championship then I think and Keith Smart was on fire beyond the three. Someone has to know how to check this????
Quote from: romey on January 28, 2009, 10:18:20 PM
The reason I think it was around 86 was that indiana won the NCAA championship then I think and Keith Smart was on fire beyond the three. Someone has to know how to check this????
The three pointer came in to college ball in 1980, when the Southern Conference decided to adopt the NBA line as a three point line. From 1980 - 1986, it was up the individual conferences(or independent teams) to decide if they wanted the three pointer or not. Back then, conferences had a lot more freedom so you would see things like the 17 foot three point line in the ACC in 1983, and some conferences having shot clocks while others did not.
The first season with an NCAA official line was the 1986-87, the year Indiana won the title. Having said that, it was not Smart that was on fire from three. He only attempted 1 3 pointer, and he missed it. Steve Alford was 7 for 10 from beyond the arc, no one else on IU attempted a three pointer.
http://www.suathletics.com/Sports/basketball/mbasket/2006/indimb87.asp
David Rivers' buzzer beater was from the left wing in January 85. My dad brought me back to school and I had got a ticket for him in the student section as a birthday present. Sharing a beer with your dad while watching an exciting game in person is one of the great joys in life. Crappy ending.
Quote from: tower912 on January 29, 2009, 07:10:11 AM
David Rivers' buzzer beater was from the left wing in January 85. My dad brought me back to school and I had got a ticket for him in the student section as a birthday present. Sharing a beer with your dad while watching an exciting game in person is one of the great joys in life. Crappy ending.
Doc Rivers: January 10, 1981 buzzer beater to beat ND
David Rivers: January 12, 1985 buzzer beater to beat MU