MUScoop

If you got to choose, which one would you rather see at MU and why?   I think I would rather see Kane.   We will need good guards next year, and Buycks is on the two year plan.    Either one would be a great get, though.

My two cents, not even close.  Riley.  Not many four star 6ft11 bigmen out there knocking on MU's door, neverless taking official visits.  They will have guards next year, recruit them in 2010 class.  OR, red-shirt Roseboro and get a guard. 

redshirting roseboro does not free up a scholie.  But I agree take the big man red shirt roseboro and sign 2-3 guards for 2010

MU already has 2010 recruit Aaron Bowen verballed.  He's a SG who will be as good or better than Kane.  Riley would be the highest ranked big man MU has had since Robert Jackson.  BRING ME A TOP CENTER.

Quote from: nyg on January 06, 2009, 12:09:12 PM
 OR, red-shirt Roseboro and get a guard. 

A red-shirt simply means the player is not active--hence not using a year of eligibility.  He's still a scholarship player and counts against the roster limit of 13.

We could redshirt Roseboro next year and it will have zero impact on the scholarship situation.  If either Kane or Riley sign, it will result in one departure from the current expected roster for next year.  Signing both implies two departures.  

OK skip the redshirt idea like it never happened.  Also thought we had one opening due to Trevor departure (my head is spinning). Bring on the non-potential, non-work in progress bigman.  Forgot about SG Bowen for 2010, thats a good start. 

First of all there are other players MU is still actively recruiting, but between Kane and Riley its not even close.  Correct me if I am wrong but Riley would be the highest ranked true big since AL!  Case closed!

Neither.  MU needs guards especially guards that can shoot from the perimeter.  Riley would be a luxury item and Kane isn't exactly a shooter.  I'd prefer Sherrod Wright.

Agree with Mt. Vernon's Sherrod Wright as a SG, but you just can't, can't let up on a quality bigman like this who actually is interested. Now if Riley doesn't commit and goes elsewhere, then turn to Wright or 2010 with the already committed Aaron Bowen.  And just think, Jamil Wilson suddenly left out of discussions here.

Easy---THE BIG MAN!!!!

Judging from Buzz MO so far, Jamil didn't show the proper desire to play at MU.  Vacillated too much.   Not going to commit?   Too bad.  Next!    I still lean toward the guard, because I have doubts that Cadougan and Buycks are going to be able to come in and start, and I am unsure about Acker and Cubi as starters also.   With Liam, Otule and Roseboro, we are pretty solid at the 5.   At worst, we have 21 feet and 15 fouls to throw out there.   Otule shows potential, if Liam is as athletic as his background indicates, we are set at the 5 for 3 years.    So get another guard to go with that wonderful collection of athletic wings.   Lazar, Jeronne, EWill, Fulce, Butler.

Quote from: MR.HAYWARD on January 06, 2009, 12:14:05 PM
redshirting roseboro does not free up a scholie.  But I agree take the big man red shirt roseboro and sign 2-3 guards for 2010

+1

As I've said on another thread.  Get him in and load up on guards in 2010.

Quote from: Warrior1969 on January 06, 2009, 12:32:06 PM
First of all there are other players MU is still actively recruiting, but between Kane and Riley its not even close.  Correct me if I am wrong but Riley would be the highest ranked true big since AL!  Case closed!

Weren't Mcilvaine and McCaskill highly regarded (and never forget Lloyd Moore).

McCaskill was a project.   Like Burke, he did not even start on his high school team, which if memory serves, was the same one featured in 'Hoop Dreams'.

yes Mccaskill was in Hoop dreams and if you look for him you can notice him.  actually he was the one driving the car that picked up Will at the end.  Nothing wrong with picking up Riley roster wise.   He may project more to a big 4 over time anyway...he really runs the floor well and can move very weell and is a great shooter to about 16 feet right now.  Great for a baseline or high low type player.   Nothing wrong with going big big, like so many of our BE brethren do.  Roseboro is a 4 too.  Not a 5.  I could see us down the road going with a Otule/mcmoorow at the 5,  a riley or a roseboro at the 4 and a maymon or williams at the 3 and two gurads.  Teminds me of some of our huge teams we had in the early to mid 90's when Mccaskill teamed up with Mcilvaine and curry and KEy at times we went 6'11, 7 foot and 6'9"  accorss the front.  and later with mcaskill, and Crwford at the three at 6'9"  as long as they can guard the three we can have big threes.

Quote from: tower912 on January 06, 2009, 01:48:25 PM
McCaskill was a project.   Like Burke, he did not even start on his high school team, which if memory serves, was the same one featured in 'Hoop Dreams'.

OK on McCaskill, but if I remember right Moore was a HS All American out of Pittsburgh or somewhere in PA

The 2009 guards' depth chart may look something like:

PG:
Cadougan
Acker
Buycks

SG:
Buycks
Cubillan
E. Williams
Butler

Compared to overlall talent and depth of the wings (Hayward, E. Williams, Maymon, Butler, Fulce) and big men (Otule, McMorrow, Roseboro, Hazel), IMO we could really use the guard play.  If even one of the group of guards gets injured, there just isn't the overall combination of talent and depth there to not have the team take a huge hit.  You can't say that about the other positions; sure, it could hurt badly if one or two of them got hurt, but there is a lot more depth.  Furthermore, if taking on a big man causes the loss of a guard (Acker to graduation or Cubillan to transfer), it causes even more of a need for help in the backcourt.

That said, my opinion is still the reverse.  Riley is too much of a talent to pass up.  Assuming we can count on two seniors coming off the bench in Acker and Cubillan, you cannot pass up on Riley.  However, getting him in 2009 would have to make Buzz strongly consider not one, but two guards in additon to Bowen to add to 2010.  If he gets a guard in 2009, he has the luxury of taking one guard and giving the last scholarship to the best player available.  My consensus is therefore that with 3 more players to get (ignoring the position/name of the player who would leave or get left out), one in 2009 and two in 2010, Buzz needs guards with two of them, and the best player available with the third; the year he gets them in doesn't matter.

Mac was more in the 80-100 range. 

Riley.

You can't teach height...nor talent.

Riley, hands down.

That said, I hope this isn't like Iman Shumpert, where we were soooo close but no cigar.

Take Riley.  One of the things we seem to forget is not all players (even highly ranked players) pan out.  This seems to happen a lot more with bigs than guards, probably because it takes a lot more natural talent to rank highly as a guard.  If you are 7' and you can bounce a basketball you'll probably end up on someone's top 100 list.  So if you are going to over recruit to protect against a flop you are better off over recruiting in bigs, because that is where flops are more likely to occur.
I was thinking last night while watching ND beat GT.  As I recall Harangody wasn't projected to be much out of HS while Zeller was a McDs all american (In fact beat out DJ for MR BB Indiana).  Now Zeller in my opinion has turned out to be only adaquate.  What if ND had said "We've got the position covered with Zeller, we don't need another center."  Where would ND be now.  Now who knows, maybe Riley won't be a player while Roseboro turns out to be a world beater, or maybe it will be the other way around.  All I know is the more balls you have in the lottery the better your chances of hitting the jackpot.  

notanalum and chapman are dead on in their analysis

Quote from: chapman on January 06, 2009, 02:24:20 PM
The 2009 guards' depth chart may look something like:

PG:
Cadougan
Acker
Buycks

SG:
Buycks
Cubillan
E. Williams
Butler

Compared to overlall talent and depth of the wings (Hayward, E. Williams, Maymon, Butler, Fulce) and big men (Otule, McMorrow, Roseboro, Hazel), IMO we could really use the guard play.  If even one of the group of guards gets injured, there just isn't the overall combination of talent and depth there to not have the team take a huge hit.  You can't say that about the other positions; sure, it could hurt badly if one or two of them got hurt, but there is a lot more depth.  Furthermore, if taking on a big man causes the loss of a guard (Acker to graduation or Cubillan to transfer), it causes even more of a need for help in the backcourt.

That said, my opinion is still the reverse.  Riley is too much of a talent to pass up.  Assuming we can count on two seniors coming off the bench in Acker and Cubillan, you cannot pass up on Riley.  However, getting him in 2009 would have to make Buzz strongly consider not one, but two guards in additon to Bowen to add to 2010.  If he gets a guard in 2009, he has the luxury of taking one guard and giving the last scholarship to the best player available.  My consensus is therefore that with 3 more players to get (ignoring the position/name of the player who would leave or get left out), one in 2009 and two in 2010, Buzz needs guards with two of them, and the best player available with the third; the year he gets them in doesn't matter.

You want to talk about lack of depth?  If Otoole goes down next year we'll have a kid who played hockey in highschool and already has a stress fracture as a possible starter.  We need a lot more help at the 5.

Take Riley.

Not to say shooting guards are a dime a dozen, but there are only so many 6'11 guys out there and only so many of those who have talent that matches their height.  I am sure  in about a year, we will be drooling about some other shooting guard out there that MU is looking at for the 2010 class.

Quote from: RawdogDX on January 06, 2009, 05:01:03 PM
You want to talk about lack of depth?  If Otoole goes down next year we'll have a kid who played hockey in highschool and already has a stress fracture as a possible starter.  We need a lot more help at the 5.

What? For next year we have Hazel, Otule, McMorrow, and Roseboro as options at the 5 (as of right now).  Or am I taking your comment out of context?

Also, during discussions like this, I always like to pull up the handy MUScoop scholarship table:
http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?page=8

I guess it would depend who ends up leaving or not coming here.   If we lose a big, get a big, if we lose a guard, get a guard.  I don't know much about Kane so I don't know if I would even want him at MU.  For a guard, we have a need for a sharpshooter or a very good defensive guard that can man the point.  I am not sold on Junior's defensive abilities.

Quote from: rocky_warrior on January 06, 2009, 08:10:07 PM
What? For next year we have Hazel, Otule, McMorrow, and Roseboro as options at the 5 (as of right now).  Or am I taking your comment out of context?

Also, during discussions like this, I always like to pull up the handy MUScoop scholarship table:
http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?page=8

Remember, Buzz wants a true 5 and a true 1 and then everyone else is just a player. As of now, Otule and McMorrow are the only true 5s on the roster.

Hazel's lost between the 3 (no skills) and 4 (no height) whereas Roseboro will be a skilled 4 man. This is where the recruitment of Riley comes in.