Thank goodness that Crean playbook bible is history.
Pat Hazel looks like a Big East player. Otule keeps showing signs of what can be. The three Amigos look like they have been playing together for four years ;-). Hayward has become an Amigo. Butler is contirbuting. I just hope we see Joe Fulce contributing.
Quote from: mviale on January 04, 2009, 02:37:34 PM
Thank goodness that Crean playbook bible is history.
Because of one game? :o
Today was a lights out game, but let's not get weepy. We played ok against Nova, not great and that was a mere 4 days ago.
If next week we lose or get blown out, will you say something different? ;)
My statement is based on the last 4-5 games. I have not seen MU play this well in years. Feels like a fine tuned O'neill team.
Today was beautiful, but if I were Buzz I'd warn them they can't expect to hit 16 three-pointers every night. Rutgers will be tough.
I loved seeing some of the flashes Otule showed. He looked strong on defense and wasn't bad on offense, even if the first shot from the lane was awkward.
I agree. The offense looks better but lets not get all juiced up yet. McNeal went 7 for 7 from 3. I wish we were playing Pitt today the way we were shooting
Teams are giving is the outside shot. Lets take it
At a certain point just past the half way point of the second half, it seems as though Buzz told the players to not shoot threes unless they needed to. I'm thinking that even though they were hot, Buzz didn't want them to feel too good about success with threes.
MU slowed down as they didnt want to embarrass Cinci - oops.
It only gets tougher for us. Playing at Rutgers won't be easy, West Virginia is playing as well as we are, and Providence will be an even tougher road game. The good news is we're playing well, and a blowout gives the starters rest and the bench some needed minutes. Otule first came in when the game was close early in the first half. We're going to need him in the regular rotation against teams with great inside play, considering we were within one foul of losing both Burke and Hazel against Nova.
I really liked how otule played, and I hope he gets more time. Hazel played another good game in my opinion, and burke was decent. If they can come in and contribute I think we will be fine.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on January 04, 2009, 02:56:53 PM
Because of one game? :o
Today was a lights out game, but let's not get weepy. We played ok against Nova, not great and that was a mere 4 days ago.
If next week we lose or get blown out, will you say something different? ;)
No, because that offense often drove me nuts over the span of 9 years. As far as us playing the best basketball we have in years...I'm not sure that's true, but we should be playing the best basketball we have played in the last 4 years. I wouldn't get too high or too low at this point of the season.
I do like the flow of Buzz's offense, but its an offense that is tailor made for very experience players like our Big 4 who can make good decisions and have a great amount of confidence. It would be a trainwreck with less experienced players.
Any offense looks great when the shots are falling.
What I really liked was after McNeal made a few 3s in a row, Cincy put a double team on him on the perimeter and he then passed to an open Mathews who popped a nice 3 of his own.
For MU to be successful, they have to continue to find a way to make teams pay dearly for double teaming one of the Big 4.
no kidding about 9 years of frustration, myself and anyone that knows anything about BBAll knew this team was aperfect fit for a motion offense. the fans knew it the payers knew it the assistant coaches knew it, but Tommy Naismith knew better that is why we averaged 11 losses ayear with this group over the last 3 years.
Quote from: MR.HAYWARD on January 04, 2009, 04:37:16 PM
no kidding about 9 years of frustration, myself and anyone that knows anything about BBAll knew this team was aperfect fit for a motion offense. the fans knew it the payers knew it the assistant coaches knew it, but Tommy Naismith knew better that is why we averaged 11 losses ayear with this group over the last 3 years.
Will you ever stfu about Crean? He's gone, get over it!!
Remember the doom and gloom after the Dayton loss?
Quote from: TallTitan34 on January 04, 2009, 06:03:36 PM
Remember the doom and gloom after the Dayton loss?
(http://images.teamsugar.com/files/upl0/0/0/02_2008/Picture%2050_2.larger.jpg)
I think we can safely say that Dayton was due to two games in two days with no bench and too many fouls called too early. We are looking good, probably the best since March of 03, but it will only take one unexpected loss to turn this board ugly again.
Great game to be at. Otule was fun to watch - he has some potential inside adn will get better - good D and no fouls for him. Hazel with the slam - wow! And Butler played great D and pulled down more rebounds. Fulce looked ok - will get more into the flow when he plays more.
Great team effort, great ball movement, good free throw shooting, and unreal 3 point shooting (hope we don;t fall in love with it too much ha).
Well done, Marquette!
I truly enjoy the huge ovation that Otule gets for making fundamental post moves. Granted it is probably just because Chris and his rec specs are a fan favorite, but it just goes to show how much Marquette has been missing a true post presence. He's really the only guy that the guards will give it to with his back to the basket, you hardly ever see them give it to Burke or Hazel when they have post position. Gotta be excited about the potential Otule has.
Quote from: Daniel on January 04, 2009, 06:30:22 PM
Great game to be at. Otule was fun to watch - he has some potential inside adn will get better - good D and no fouls for him. Hazel with the slam - wow! And Butler played great D and pulled down more rebounds. Fulce looked ok - will get more into the flow when he plays more.
Great team effort, great ball movement, good free throw shooting, and unreal 3 point shooting (hope we don;t fall in love with it too much ha).
Well done, Marquette!
Just a reminder that we lived and died by the 3 pt shot in 2003
It seems to me it's rather simple. 4 guys that are playing have been essentially starters or 6th men since day one of their careers. Incredible leadership and experience.
That allows Buzz great latitude to do things with this team that he won't be able to do next year.
So as one poster said, throw out the play book. Well, in a way, yes, but for this year only. The players know where they are supposed to be, it's been ingrained in them for years at MU.
I severely doubt next year he's going to throw the ball out on the court and say .... "have at it boys" considering how young and inexperienced we will be.
The team is playing well and hitting from the outside, which helps everything. Long, long, long way to go.
Quote from: tower912 on January 04, 2009, 06:13:35 PM
I think we can safely say that Dayton was due to two games in two days with no bench and too many fouls called too early. We are looking good, probably the best since March of 03, but it will only take one unexpected loss to turn this board ugly again.
Wait, did you just compare this team to the Final Four team? I'd hold off on comparing this team to that one. That team had three future NBA players and an interior post game. We beat a not very good Cincinatti team and a good Villanova team at home. We still have very real weaknesses and we will be in trouble when we play teams like Pitt and UConn because we won't have a way to stop their big men, much like when we played Tennessee.
That being said, I am excited about the way we are playing, but lets hold off on the Final four comparisons just yet.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on January 04, 2009, 10:59:00 PM
It seems to me it's rather simple. 4 guys that are playing have been essentially starters or 6th men since day one of their careers. Incredible leadership and experience.
That allows Buzz great latitude to do things with this team that he won't be able to do next year.
So as one poster said, throw out the play book. Well, in a way, yes, but for this year only. The players know where they are supposed to be, it's been ingrained in them for years at MU.
I severely doubt next year he's going to throw the ball out on the court and say .... "have at it boys" considering how young and inexperienced we will be.
The team is playing well and hitting from the outside, which helps everything. Long, long, long way to go.
Wow that is a very ignorant basketball post there Chicos. First of all Buzz is not just throwing the ball out there and saying " have at it boys". They are running an offense by design that has been practiced. It is a motion offense. In complete contrast to the sets that Mu ran under Crean where he would call a play and everyone would run the play in an effort to reulst with a particualr out come. ie Lazar comes off a double scrren on the wing.
The motion becomes an equal opportunity offense whereby the players will all touch the ball possibly and if someone gets open in a good position to shoot they can or they continue the offensive flow. Crean would often call a play and if the option did not result we would call another play in a rush, often times the result would be a bailout three attempt by DJ as the shot clock ran out. This all your eggs in one basket approach often left us in a desparation situation. additionally, when you have 4 tremendous scorers and athletes why would you force a set play. Let them all cut, screen and move and which ever one gains an advantage during that motion has the opportunity to take the shot. My goodness all your years and great realtionship you tout with Bob Knight I am sure you would have been a huge proponent of the motion offense. or are you just defending our old offense becuase of the man who implemented it? I will also say this ...I absolutely guarantee we run a motion offense next year. it is a better offense period, it is not an all your eggs in one basket offense. If you have a DWADE then you run sets for him, if you have equal and babalnced talent motion is by far the best, I have been screaming this for years as i watch the ball being pounded at the top of the key by Cordell, then Diener, and then DJ. I swear there has to be a depression at that post worn by the Tommy Naismith offense.
LAstly, motion is a player friendly offense. If you screen hard and cut hard and get open you will get shots. it does not bury guess like a Wes becuase the coach is not calling his number. Much more friendly offense for players keeps them happy and is much easier to recruit to.
+1
buzz is playing to this teams strength.
to think that the playbook has been tossed out to let these guys freelance is ignorant.
it seems simpler, more straight-forward:
motion-touch the paint-slash to the hoop...
something will open up, vs. passing around the perimeter for 30 seconds.
generalization, I know.
I think Mr. Hayward makes a good post above. We were discussing this topic yesterday. We often got some very good shots in the past, but we also very often ended up with very bad shots when the set plays broke down.
That has not necessarily changed. We still end up getting some very good shots as well as firing up plenty of bad ones. The difference this year seems to be that those shots tend to go up 5-10 seconds into the shot clock as opposed to having 5 seconds left on the shot clock.
If we are going to fire up ill-advised 3 pointers (which has happened under both coaches), I'd much rather have the additional opportunities for good shots that comes with using less of the shot clock before the bad shot goes up.
Yesterday's game was great, and this is a pretty good discussion.
One thing to keep in mind: They all look like good shots when they go in.
I'm not saying the shots weren't good, but they obviously make the offense look good because they went in.
It's similar to Travis' pull-up 3pters that he used to love. As a coach, you never really teach that, nor do you encourage it... but when he makes a lot of them, it's hard not to love it and say "Let 'em fly".
With that said, the Big 4 are playing as well as they ever have. They are probably as good as any starting 4 in the country. The only problem is that MU doesn't have much punch after those guys.
It will be interesting to watch the player development under Buzz. If he can get players 5-8 to be productive role players by Feb., then MU has a good chance to make a run in March.
I am not comparing this to a final 4 team. I am saying this is the best we have looked since then. Far to go and much improvement to be made by the bench before we can even think those thoughts.
personally i do not look at it that way...that being well it is a good shot when the ball goes in. wrong. that is not the way to look at it. it may be my coaching experience. I detest the bad shoot that goes in and equal detest the good shot that is not taken. Under Crean we shot threes off the dribble. i dont have the stats off hand but Pitino is famous for having the stats, 3's off the dribble go in at like a 20 some percent rate. while 3's off the catch are in the low 40's as are 3's off ball reversal and indide out rotation. I listened to Buzz in the postgame press conferenceand he mad e the paoint that only 2 of their threes that he could rember were on the strong/ball side. everything else was off reversal. when that happens a greater percentage will go in. some might look at it and say well yeah eveything looks better when the ball goes in. but if one breaks it down more you can see why. now granted that is not going to result in a 60% nights every night but contested 3's as the shot clock expires off the dribble have a small chance. Roth and dumesdown at IU iare catching the ire of IU fans becuase they came in as "some hugely touted three point shooter" yet are shooting a bad percentage. watch an Iu game or two stand around and then the ball is in their hands with 5 seconds left. Obviously that is going to happen at times but when it happens so darn often as a result of a stand around set offense,well i saw that as a problem and Buzz has provided the solution that was so simply unless you think you invented the game.
Lets remember boys that last year we opened by running Providence off the court in a game that was every bit as dominate as yesterday only to get blown out by West Virginia ourselves a week later. Its great when the 3s are falling but you really can't count on that. Other than Lazar we know these guys well enough to know that they are simply not that great of pure shooters that we can count on anything resembling what went on yesterday. They had plenty of good games last year. Actually I thought the game at the BC where they "pick and rolled"a very good Pittsburgh team absolutely to death better fit the definition of "playing our best basketball".
We've got to beat Rutgers and and then continue to pile up the wins in the first part of the season. We need to finish the first half like 7-2. Then hope that the 4 guys we've been playing 30+ minutes don't collapse or get hurt and that Hazel and Otule can give us some serious solid minutes at the end of the season. We've got a long way to go.
Quote from: NotAnAlum on January 05, 2009, 12:14:40 PM
Lets remember boys that last year we opened by running Providence off the court in a game that was every bit as dominate as yesterday only to get blown out by West Virginia ourselves a week later. Its great when the 3s are falling but you really can't count on that. Other than Lazar we know these guys well enough to know that they are simply not that great of pure shooters that we can count on anything resembling what went on yesterday. They had plenty of good games last year. Actually I thought the game at the BC where they "pick and rolled"a very good Pittsburgh team absolutely to death better fit the definition of "playing our best basketball".
We've got to beat Rutgers and and then continue to pile up the wins in the first part of the season. We need to finish the first half like 7-2. Then hope that the 4 guys we've been playing 30+ minutes don't collapse or get hurt and that Hazel and Otule can give us some serious solid minutes at the end of the season. We've got a long way to go.
+1.
If Hazel and Otule can progress, that would be a big help to this team and if one of the big 4 go down it would be a major problem.
Quote from: MR.HAYWARD on January 05, 2009, 11:54:31 AM
personally i do not look at it that way...that being well it is a good shot when the ball goes in. wrong. that is not the way to look at it. it may be my coaching experience. I detest the bad shoot that goes in and equal detest the good shot that is not taken. Under Crean we shot threes off the dribble. i dont have the stats off hand but Pitino is famous for having the stats, 3's off the dribble go in at like a 20 some percent rate. while 3's off the catch are in the low 40's as are 3's off ball reversal and indide out rotation. I listened to Buzz in the postgame press conferenceand he mad e the paoint that only 2 of their threes that he could rember were on the strong/ball side. everything else was off reversal. when that happens a greater percentage will go in. some might look at it and say well yeah eveything looks better when the ball goes in. but if one breaks it down more you can see why. now granted that is not going to result in a 60% nights every night but contested 3's as the shot clock expires off the dribble have a small chance. Roth and dumesdown at IU iare catching the ire of IU fans becuase they came in as "some hugely touted three point shooter" yet are shooting a bad percentage. watch an Iu game or two stand around and then the ball is in their hands with 5 seconds left. Obviously that is going to happen at times but when it happens so darn often as a result of a stand around set offense,well i saw that as a problem and Buzz has provided the solution that was so simply unless you think you invented the game.
I know McNeal made at least 2 off of the dribble. He's very good at crossing over to his left and then back to his right to get a quick shot. He's made quite a few of those this year and seems to have good rhythm on his jumper off of the dribble.
Anyways, I'm definitely not comparing the current offensive sets to last years (I'm steering clear of that debate), I'm just saying that when a guy shoots 7-7 from 3, the offense is going to look good. I like the ball reversals, I like the flashing to the high post, I like the baseline drive, etc. It looks good... but 15-25 can make a lot of things look good.
I like what Buzz has done and I like what the big 4 are doing... we'll see how it continues to evolve.
I watched the WVU game against Seton Hall last night to see what we are up against Saturday, and at one point late in the game the announcer started talking about how tough Marquette would be this year. Said something like, "Those three incredible guards, Dominic James, Jerel McNeal and Wesley Matthews - haven't those guys been playing together for like 10 years or something?"
That offense over the last nine years was painful. One could never say anything due to the 2003 success in March.
Quote from: mviale on January 05, 2009, 09:40:40 PM
That offense over the last nine years was painful. One could never say anything due to the 2003 success in March.
Those of us enlightened have been vocal.