Two free throws, thats it. That is almost hard to believe we can get so little off the bench.
The bench did provide 11 rebounds. Butler should have been on the line several times while he was hammered on rebounds and/or putbacks. Hazel did play a solid floor game.
beating are Top15 team is not easy...stop complaining and take it.
Any fan who complains or nitpicks after today's game has no idea what competition is and how hard our guys fought today. Games don't go perfect but these guys put out a perfect effort and played a heck of a game against a top 15 team.
no kidding top 15 win !!
79Warrior, you always have to find a negative don't ya? Enjoy the win. Everyone knows this team has their limitations, however, you can't complain about how well they overcome them on most nights.
I have a tendency to always over analyze when I look at the stats. Not living in Millwaukee and not having access to so many of the games on television, I often have to rely on my fellow MU bfans on this site and the stat sheets or box scores. Today, I settled in and watched this game from start to finish and was very impressed with the play of the entire team. Sure there were things that I could nitpick about. As a matter of fact, I wondered about the bench minutes. But, at the same time I thought Butler and Hazel played well. But the box score doesn't show you that (with the exception of Jimmy's 7 boards). The two of them combined on a great save as a ball was headed out of bounds - the announcers loved it. Do you see that in the stats? No. My point is, today was a stark reminder to me that while numbers are great, and for analytical guys like me, they're a lot of fun to pore over. BUT - they don't portray the whole story. Bottom line - we beat a top 15 team in our opening BEast game - enjoy!
The win was hugemand Mathews and McNeal both came up big in the second half. There still are areas of concern:
1. Way too many TO's--a number of them by James were unforced.
2. James: 7 TO's and 1 for 4 on FT's. He must improve in both of those areas. You simply cannot have a PG shooting about 45% on FT's.
3. Center: 9 fouls and only 4 points from those two. This area will be a big achilles heel against the UConn's, Pitt's, and Georgetowns.
This was a big homecourt win.
Its amazing that we win a game against a top 25 team and we get a negative post. Wow.
I've watched Nova 3 times and I do not believe they are a top 25 team. I think you'll see them finish in the middle of the conference, between 7 and 9. That said, still a good win.
As far as the bench, I still don't understand why Otule doesn't see the floor? A seven footer on THIS team should get some minutes every contest.
Quote from: esotericmindguy on January 01, 2009, 06:45:15 PM
I've watched Nova 3 times and I do not believe they are a top 25 team. I think you'll see them finish in the middle of the conference, between 7 and 9. That said, still a good win.
As far as the bench, I still don't understand why Otule doesn't see the floor? A seven footer on THIS team should get some minutes every contest.
If Villanova isn't a top 25 team, then there should only be about 15 to 20 "top-25" teams.
Here are the teams behind Villanova. While I think we're too low and they're too high--especially after today's game, I defy you to list twelve of the following teams that are arguably BETTER than Villanova right now:
14. Arizona State
15. Michigan State
16. Clemson
17. Gonzaga
18. Louisville
18. Tennessee
20. Baylor
21. Minnesota
22. Xavier
23. Ohio State
24. Michigan
25. Marquette
Others Receiving Votes
Brigham Young 43, West Virginia 41, Butler 37, Memphis 33, Dayton 32, Saint Mary's 26, Davidson 12, Arizona 10, Missouri 9, Illinois 8, Illinois State 6, Stanford 6, Florida 5, LSU 4, Texas A&M 3, Florida State 2, Utah State 1.
From what I've seen Villanova is definitely better than Louisville, Ohio State and Michigan, and probably better than Xavier and Gonzaga. I haven't seen Baylor or Clemson yet so I'll give those teams the benefit of the doubt. I don't see any reason to put them behind anybody in the "Also Receiving Votes."
So move Villanova behind Arizona State, MSU, Tennessee, Xavier, Clemson, Minnesota and Marquette. That's 21, and probably a fair rank.
They're a solid 20-25 team.
Quote from: esotericmindguy on January 01, 2009, 06:45:15 PM
I've watched Nova 3 times and I do not believe they are a top 25 team. I think you'll see them finish in the middle of the conference, between 7 and 9. That said, still a good win.
As far as the bench, I still don't understand why Otule doesn't see the floor? A seven footer on THIS team should get some minutes every contest.
This was a great game, well played in general. I thought we'd see Otule at the end of the first half, jsut as a decoy or something that Villanove would have to think about fast. Otule is 6' 10 (not 7 feet - McMorrow is our 7 footer).
All in all, a well executed gamer other than the turnovers. A great win, and great start to the Big East. Each game will be a challenge - no gimmes.....
Way to go Marquette!
How many shots did the bench take. You know you would like to see more scoring from the bench... but when you have 4 guys who all average double digits, and 3 that average over 17 a game, you don't need the bench to score a whole lot, just play their role on the team which is to do the little things that don't go on the stat sheet but contribute to a victory, grab loose balls, set very good screens for our big three (especially for James and McNeal), keep good spacing to give our scorers open lanes... you get the idea.
Marquette doesn't need Cubillan, Acker, Hazel or anyone else on that bench to score double digits, we just need them to play their role.
Quote from: 79Warrior on January 01, 2009, 05:11:11 PM
Two free throws, thats it. That is almost hard to believe we can get so little off the bench.
That's why next year is so scary. Great class coming in, but difficult to rely on youth in their first year. The bench is really weak and the best players that were going to take their spot are at Kansas and IU right now, though I think Otule and Fulce will be solid next year. Sure hope they can get into some games soon because our big 4 are going to be dead at the of the year if we don't. Then again, we're stuck needing to play them to get wins. Not an enviable position for Buzz to be in.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on January 01, 2009, 08:30:48 PM
That's why next year is so scary. Great class coming in, but difficult to rely on youth in their first year. The bench is really weak and the best players that were going to take their spot are at Kansas and IU right now, though I think Otule and Fulce will be solid next year. Sure hope they can get into some games soon because our big 4 are going to be dead at the of the year if we don't. Then again, we're stuck needing to play them to get wins. Not an enviable position for Buzz to be in.
Dead on.
Sure we beat a very good team, but there won't be a game the rest of the way against a team that isn't good. It has to be a concern that we have four players, and an injury or early foul trouble on any of them is enough to shut us down. If we avoid that it's still hard to believe playing all four of them 35 minutes a game is good for us come March. Hopefully Buzz is actally looking at the ability of Fulce and Otule and not counting how many practices they have in. Burke and Hazel combined for 9 fouls; any team with more than one solid player in the 4-5 positions will force his hand, and playing Butler at the 5 in the Big East would be a joke.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on January 01, 2009, 08:30:48 PM
That's why next year is so scary. Great class coming in, but difficult to rely on youth in their first year. The bench is really weak and the best players that were going to take their spot are at Kansas and IU right now, though I think Otule and Fulce will be solid next year. Sure hope they can get into some games soon because our big 4 are going to be dead at the of the year if we don't. Then again, we're stuck needing to play them to get wins. Not an enviable position for Buzz to be in.
Yah - better start trashing next years squad, because it looks like Buzz has these guys playing their best basketball.
Quote from: esotericmindguy on January 01, 2009, 06:45:15 PM
As far as the bench, I still don't understand why Otule doesn't see the floor? A seven footer on THIS team should get some minutes every contest.
Great win to start off the BEast season!! Nice to see the experience show down the stretch.
I agree Otule and/or Fulce need to get some minutes every chance Buzz can get them in there. We are a good hard working team with a limited ceiling due to our lack of inside game. Fulce/Otule at least can potentially raise that ceiling some in March, but they have to get minutes now if they are going to contribute down the road. Hopefully Cincy will provide that opportunity.
Congrats to Buzz on his first BEast win-fun game-nice that it was on ESPN!!
Quote from: mviale on January 01, 2009, 10:45:11 PM
Yah - better start trashing next years squad, because it looks like Buzz has these guys playing their best basketball.
Good God, too many Philly Cheese steaks for you. I'm not trashing next year's team at all. This year's team is doing exactly what I thought it would be doing thus far. We have 4 dominant players, 3 seniors. Barry Switzer could get this team to the NCAAs. Fortunately for us, Buzz is better than Barry Switzer.
Doesn't change the fact that next year will be a tough task, for which I will NOT blame Buzz. He has a ton of youth he will have to deal with next year.
No one is trashing next year's team, please read.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on January 01, 2009, 08:30:48 PM
That's why next year is so scary. Great class coming in, but difficult to rely on youth in their first year. The bench is really weak and the best players that were going to take their spot are at Kansas and IU right now, though I think Otule and Fulce will be solid next year. Sure hope they can get into some games soon because our big 4 are going to be dead at the of the year if we don't. Then again, we're stuck needing to play them to get wins. Not an enviable position for Buzz to be in.
That is exactly my point. The starting four are going to be dragging in the BE by March is someone can't help out. As for next year, yikes!
I am less worried about that because they are seniors and a junior and know the deal. If they were four studly freshman then you would be exactly right.
MU HAS to build up the record before the last five games of the season. The team could be super rested going into those last five and still could go 0-5. If things fall right, this team could go 6-2 in Jan and 5-2 in Feb.
Jan Ws: Vill, Cin, Rut, Prov, DeP and one against either GU, ND, WV
Feb Ws: DeP, USF, St J, SH and one from either Vill, GU or UConn (hard, but doable)
MU would then be 11-4 heading into March and three losses to L'ville, Pitt and Syracuse would not be that bad and if MU wins one then its a bonus.
If MU has to win a reg season game in March to get into the tourney then we are not going to make it. Best we win now.
Naysayers: I say, this is our year and we will produce.
Enjoy it, and worry about next year, next year. God, we should all be excited about the win, our prospects for THIS season and we should be holding off the criticism until it is warranted.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on January 01, 2009, 08:30:48 PM
That's why next year is so scary. Great class coming in, but difficult to rely on youth in their first year. The bench is really weak and the best players that were going to take their spot are at Kansas and IU right now, though I think Otule and Fulce will be solid next year. Sure hope they can get into some games soon because our big 4 are going to be dead at the of the year if we don't. Then again, we're stuck needing to play them to get wins. Not an enviable position for Buzz to be in.
I don't think this is a fair assessment with regards to predicting success next year because you can actually see the new comers (and Acker and Burke for that matter) deferring to the Big 4 in terms of scoring. I think we'll see some of these guys step up their offensive aggressiveness next year when the first 3 options are no longer out on the floor. Jimmy Butler did an interview with Homer and flat out said: "I'm supposed to get off the bench and rebound". These guys understand that their role on this years team is not to score 15+/ game but provide support to our big 4 with defense, hustle, and rebounding. (I would admit that some of these guys aren't very well suited in the supporting role but that doesn't mean that they won't score when asked to)
The only thing that worries me about next year's team is the development/confidence of O'Tule and Fulce. If they never see the floor this year it could keep them from becoming vital pieces to the puzzle next year. The addition of another experienced JC player helps but we'll have to see how Jimmy/Fulce/O'Tule/McMorrow do when asked to step up after a year of experience. (Or in the case of McMorrow - practice)
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on January 02, 2009, 10:19:10 AM
Good God, too many Philly Cheese steaks for you. I'm not trashing next year's team at all. This year's team is doing exactly what I thought it would be doing thus far. We have 4 dominant players, 3 seniors. Barry Switzer could get this team to the NCAAs. Fortunately for us, Buzz is better than Barry Switzer.
Doesn't change the fact that next year will be a tough task, for which I will NOT blame Buzz. He has a ton of youth he will have to deal with next year.
No one is trashing next year's team, please read.
Simmer down OC. You have been doubting ever since buzz was hired.
Regardless if you want to admit it or not, we cannot go through the whole season solely relying on the Big 4 to come through every night. The bench is eventually going to have to help out if one of the big 4 is having an off night. I have personally been disappointed that both ackers and cubillan who have been factors off the bench in the past, have not been factors at all this year!
Quote from: Rockmic87 on January 02, 2009, 04:50:55 PM
Regardless if you want to admit it or not, we cannot go through the whole season solely relying on the Big 4 to come through every night. The bench is eventually going to have to help out if one of the big 4 is having an off night. I have personally been disappointed that both ackers and cubillan who have been factors off the bench in the past, have not been factors at all this year!
To say Acker hasn't been a factor at all is not true. Lately he has been very good. In my eyes, outside of the big 4, the jobs of most of the rest of the guys are to not turn it over fight for boards, and keep the offense flowing. So only 2 points out of them isn't super concerning to me because any of our 4 guys can put up 20, and sometimes 2 of them do or at least high teens. Acker has ran the offense very well, hasn't been a big liability on defense, and has Buzz's confidence to pull James out to get him some rest. Acker is very solid at running the team when James is out, and once he starts hittin more of his 3's he'll be even better, but you can't just look at number of points. And aslo Butler is getting more comfortable, and is always goin to the rim to get boards.
If guys are bitching now, imagine when we actually lose.
I think it's all about the Big 4, especially McNeal who can take unnecessary risks after he already has 2 or 3 fouls, not getting in foul trouble. It seems to me since the home job against Tennessee, they have really been playing smart with this in mind. Every game I feel like we are the better team, and every break I just check to see how many fouls the Big 4 have, and if none are in trouble, I feel very confident we will win.
If Acker has assists, the bigs are playing physical fronting defense like they did to contain Cunningham, and Butler is doing any combination, and none of the Fab 4 are in foul trouble, I think we will win. As for the rankings, I think West Virginia and Syracuse are the two teams out of order, We beat Nova by 7, who beat Temple by 17, who beat Tennessee by 16, so guess that makes us 40 points better than the Vols who never would have beaten us outside of the state of Tennessee. A win over West Virginia next Saturday would be huge, but even if we lose that game I think we are going to be up there.