They looked pretty darn good tonight. Or are some of you still going to have the "glass half empty" outlook on this team?
UW did what UW does at home, made it a halfcourt game and shot well from outside. Their offense looks much more crisp than it did against MU. I think we caught them at a good time.
I think MU deserves credit for getting UW out of their game. I think UW was lucky that Fulce and Otule were injured.
Are you kidding? they absolutely fell apart down the stretch. they had a real chance to win the game but commited turnover after missed shot after turnover. And that play bo drew up with 30 seconds left?! holy crap im glad we have buzz (and DJ). That was the worst last minute play i have ever seen. They completely handed the game to texas, texas did not do anything to win that game in the last few minutes.
I donno, I think DJ would have had at least 1 T the way Hughes was pushing, holding and generally abusing Texas' guard (3, forgot name). If nothing else, the 'horns kept their cool. Anytime you win in madison, where the 3 best players for uw wear stripes, it's a good win.
Quote from: augoman on December 24, 2008, 01:36:02 AM
I donno, I think DJ would have had at least 1 T the way Hughes was pushing, holding and generally abusing Texas' guard (3, forgot name). If nothing else, the 'horns kept their cool. Anytime you win in madison, where the 3 best players for uw wear stripes, it's a good win.
Although it was very poor sportsmanship (and I would have been offended had it been done to our MU), I couldn't help but laugh when the Texas players went out to stomp on the "W" at center court. I'm a little suprised it didn't generate a reaction from the Rodent players.
Context is always nice.
UW lost yesterday's game 69-75 to Texas. At UW.
Quote from: MUBasketball on December 23, 2008, 10:41:36 PM
They looked pretty darn good tonight. Or are some of you still going to have the "glass half empty" outlook on this team?
I'll stick with my UW-Madison to finish 4th or 5th in the Big Ten. They're pretty good, no one said they weren't, what was said is that they aren't what they have been in the last few years. Nothing from last night would change that opinion...they lost, right?
Last year they beat Texas at Texas, this year they lost to them AT HOME. They're pretty good, but not at the level they have been at in recent years in my opinion.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on December 24, 2008, 10:03:55 AM
I'll stick with my UW-Madison to finish 4th or 5th in the Big Ten. They're pretty good, no one said they weren't, what was said is that they aren't what they have been in the last few years. Nothing from last night would change that opinion...they lost, right?
Last year they beat Texas at Texas, this year they lost to them AT HOME. They're pretty good, but not at the level they have been at in recent years in my opinion.
Well, looking at it from your perspective, (UW won @ Texas last year, lost to them at home this year), then I guess they aren't as good. If Butch misses the 3 pointer at the end, they lose the game. Likewise, the ball bounces the other way on a play or two last night, they win. Really, what's the difference? Both games were tight and came down to the end.
Now, having said that, I agree that UW is slightly less talented than last year. They lost some good players last year. Regardless, it's still a heck of a win, one that shouldn't be downplayed, IMO.
What do you consider the win @ NC State? Is that a good win on the road against an ACC team? Or are we poo poo'ing that one as well since they were in the bottom half of the standings last year?
Quote from: MUBasketball on December 24, 2008, 10:24:43 AM
What do you consider the win @ NC State? Is that a good win on the road against an ACC team? Or are we poo poo'ing that one as well since they were in the bottom half of the standings last year?
Any win against a BCS school (with very few exceptions) on the road is a good win.
Quote from: MUBasketball on December 24, 2008, 10:24:43 AM
Well, looking at it from your perspective, (UW won @ Texas last year, lost to them at home this year), then I guess they aren't as good. If Butch misses the 3 pointer at the end, they lose the game. Likewise, the ball bounces the other way on a play or two last night, they win. Really, what's the difference? Both games were tight and came down to the end.
Now, having said that, I agree that UW is slightly less talented than last year. They lost some good players last year. Regardless, it's still a heck of a win, one that shouldn't be downplayed, IMO.
What do you consider the win @ NC State? Is that a good win on the road against an ACC team? Or are we poo poo'ing that one as well since they were in the bottom half of the standings last year?
It's not just the Texas game. UW barely beat Iona (needed overtime). Barely beat San Diego. Barely beat Long Beach State. Beat Idaho State by two points. I'm looking at their body of work, not just one game when I make my analysis that this is a 4th or 5th place Big Ten team.
Bo's teams usually get better so it doesn't mean they can't finish in the top 3, but right now I don't see it. UW-Madison is 0-3 against ranked teams this year and has not exactly looked terrific against the non-ranked teams.
On MU, I think the win at NC State was a good win, much like UW-Madison winning at Va. Tech. Not a great win, not a signature win. They did finish dead last a year ago in the ACC, but probably will improve a few spots this year. Nevertheless, a good win.
MU has the talent to win 24 games but I'm sticking with 20 (I had them at 10-2 at this point, just didn't get the games correct). A couple of my losses I picked against MU I now think they will win, but the BEAST is a BEAST....they can achieve great things if they play well, avoid injuries and get a few breaks here and there.
Quote from: muman on December 23, 2008, 11:44:54 PM
Are you kidding? they absolutely fell apart down the stretch. they had a real chance to win the game but commited turnover after missed shot after turnover. And that play bo drew up with 30 seconds left?! holy crap im glad we have buzz (and DJ). That was the worst last minute play i have ever seen. They completely handed the game to texas, texas did not do anything to win that game in the last few minutes.
You have to be kidding. Regardless of what happened in Madison last night the only thing Buzz did right was put the ball in the hot hand.
Tied game and MU needs one point to win. A two point shot. A free-throw. An offensive put back. Instead they settle for a three point shot off the dribble with no time for an offensive rebound. Buzz is a genius because the ball went through the hoop with .4 seconds. That ball does not go in and Marquette loses in overtime fans would be asking wtf was Buzz doing in the time out.
take it easy denny, DJ and Buzz both said they were to run the play with 8 seconds left allowing them time to do all you say. however NCSU defended the ball screen differently and that slowed DJ down. Would you have been more happy if we shot with 5-6 seconds left giving them time to push the ball and get the last shot how smart would you say buzz was if that happened and we lost, Give it a rest you take a late, make or miss you do not give them the ball back with time to get a shot off
Quote from: MR.HAYWARD on December 24, 2008, 04:32:48 PM
take it easy denny, DJ and Buzz both said they were to run the play with 8 seconds left allowing them time to do all you say. however NCSU defended the ball screen differently and that slowed DJ down. Would you have been more happy if we shot with 5-6 seconds left giving them time to push the ball and get the last shot how smart would you say buzz was if that happened and we lost, Give it a rest you take a late, make or miss you do not give them the ball back with time to get a shot off
Mr. Hayward is right on the money here. The screen didn't work, so DJ had to improvise...plus, he was pretty wide open!!
Denny is also correct in his assertion that coaches are genius' when the ball goes through the hoop on those plays. ;)
Watching the play again today, DJ didn't even start to go down the right side until 5 seconds left...he really waited until the very end. Glad it worked out.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on December 24, 2008, 06:32:10 PMWatching the play again today, DJ didn't even start to go down the right side until 5 seconds left...he really waited until the very end. Glad it worked out.
I agree. Both of them say the play was meant to start at 8 seconds but DJ started it no earlier than with 5 seconds left. Whether the play is truly drawn up to start with 5 seconds left or 8 seconds left I don't know. I think we're forgetting that Buzz isn't the only coach who seems to wait too long at end-of-half situations to start a play. Georgetown last year, anyone? Also Stanford at the end of regulation...gave it to the hot hand in Jerel but instead of starting the play earlier and trying to get to the bucket for a layup or foul we settled for a jump shot. Also a game earlier this year we did the same thing (I forget which game, but I remember thinking it was just like Georgetown last year) at the end of a half. DJ seems to hold the ball too long at half court, and if it's us inbounding with 10 seconds left and the full court to go he seems to casually dribble it up the court, run off of a screen which the other team always doubles on, and this time he was able to reverse out of it and get open, unlike the last 2 times I can recall.
For those MU Fans since 1986 - any win against Wisconsin is a great win. I went 4 years watching nothing but losses to those clowns. I also believe Wisconsin owned Tom Crean.
Quote from: MR.HAYWARD on December 24, 2008, 04:32:48 PM
take it easy denny, DJ and Buzz both said they were to run the play with 8 seconds left allowing them time to do all you say. however NCSU defended the ball screen differently and that slowed DJ down. Would you have been more happy if we shot with 5-6 seconds left giving them time to push the ball and get the last shot how smart would you say buzz was if that happened and we lost, Give it a rest you take a late, make or miss you do not give them the ball back with time to get a shot off
The post I replied to suggested that there was some great play drawn up and executed on the floor. Far from true. It was not ideally what you wanted from that situation.
There is a big difference between shooting leaving .4 and shooting the ball at 5-6 seconds. Ideally the ball leaves the shooters hands with 3-4 seconds. 5 and maybe even 6 seconds would be alright. At minimum the clock runs down one second between the time of the shot and the rebound. If the opponent comes out with the rebound he needs to clear traffic before he can turn up court. The NC St is unlikely to be leaking out anyone with the rebound being priority #1. Best case scenario is North Carolina St. ending up with a running half court shot. Best case for Marquette would be an offensive rebound with everyone hitting the boards. Another shot or foul.
The problem MU has had in close games over the last 3 years is that they have tended to put up shots with 5 or 6 seconds left and they've given the other team the opportunity to win games at the end. MU did start the final push too late, so it wasn't ideal, but they got the win and that is the most important thing and if Dominic misses the shot, the worst MU gets is overtime.
Trevon Hughes was able to win the Virginia Tech game at the end with a tremendous shot and then got caught in no man's land in the loss to Texas. Very, very seldom does a last second shot go according to plan.
In my opinion in a tie game you take the shot as close to the buzzer as possible. If you are down you take the shot with enough time to get a rebound.
Quote from: bilsu on December 25, 2008, 02:18:49 PM
In my opinion in a tie game you take the shot as close to the buzzer as possible. If you are down you take the shot with enough time to get a rebound.
+1
Quote from: bilsu on December 25, 2008, 02:18:49 PM
In my opinion in a tie game you take the shot as close to the buzzer as possible. If you are down you take the shot with enough time to get a rebound.
Not true. Certainly not on the road. You don't want to go into OT. With that much time left and needing one point you want a better shot than 3 off the dribble with no chance for a put back. That was a low percentage play.
Quote from: dennycrane on December 26, 2008, 09:18:50 AM
Not true. Certainly not on the road. You don't want to go into OT. With that much time left and needing one point you want a better shot than 3 off the dribble with no chance for a put back. That was a low percentage play.
I don't think bilsu said anything about DJ's shot being a high or low percentage shot just that he liked the timing of when the shot was taken. Of course we would have been better off with a higher percentage shot but the important point was to not let NCST beat us with a last second shot when we can control the ball until the clock hits 0.
If your tied, you don't want to give the other team a chance for a shot at the end of the game especially under the games circumstances. That being our lack of height, experienced lineup who could handle an overtime game on the road and not being in foul trouble. If all of those factors were reversed you might be tempted to put a shot up earlier for a chance at a rebound putback.
Just imagine the outrage if DJ hit a high percentage 2 with more than 1 second left on the clock and than the kid who hit the 2 would have been an inch more away from the basket. That would have been a bad beat.
Reece Gaines all over again.
Quote from: MUBasketball on December 23, 2008, 10:41:36 PM
They looked pretty darn good tonight. Or are some of you still going to have the "glass half empty" outlook on this team?
You know your thread topic question is just begging for "yes" response, right? Ok, just checking ;) Cuz anytime we cream Bucky is cause for glorious celebration; i'm pretty sure it will never hurt us to beat 'em.