According to AP, he said Otule and Fulce were "really bad" and added that neither "had earned playing time." A little harsh, no?
I like how Buzz tells it like it is and doesn't leave us drinking the koolaid with all the coachspeak like Judas did.
In full context:
But it wasn't all smiles afterward for Williams, who said he wasn't happy with his team's letup in the second half and offered harsh assessments of freshman center Chris Otule and sophomore forward Joseph Fulce.
Both players saw their first action of the season after sitting out the first 10 games with injuries, and neither performed very well. In fact, Williams said both were "really, really bad."
"They're not ready to play," Williams said. "They haven't earned the right to play."
But Williams said the team will need them to contribute later in the season, so he had to work them in Friday.
"It's good to have them, and we need them to get better," Williams said.
http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball/recap?gid=200812190339&prov=ap
I don't quite understand why Buzz called out Fulce and Otule after the game, but he must have his reasons. "They haven't earned the right to play." Huh?
Yes, they will need them later in the season, but why insult them to the press after their first playing time of the season? Not sure this kind of motivation works.
I don't like it either. He must have some damn high expectations of them if he's going to publicly call them "really, really bad" after they each played their first 11 minutes in a real game since high school and Juco respectively. Especially since it seems the general feeling of everyone here was encouraging. If they're "really, really bad", given our bench's nonexistence so far this year we must have a healthy dose of players who have often been "really, really, really, really bad".
Buzz is the same guy that cried after winning an exhibition game. I would not get too concerned with the post game yapping.
Great to have Otule's size there, if nothing else.
i'veseen highly emotional coaches like this before.
It is dangerous to celebrate every victory like it's the NCAA championship win because the depth you fall to in a loss are psyche wrenching for the coach and the players. The high from the victory gets harder and harder to achieve.
Eventually it is not enough to win. You gotta' win big to keep the high rolling. And when you don;t you start blaming the players. And from the player's perspective, it gets old.
Praise in public, criticize in private.
Otule and Fulce both looked like they had just missed 7 weeks of work. They were rusty and tentative. But we need them and they had to get out there and play. Now, I am pretty sure that is what Buzz meant to say. He spoke a little harshly, but he isn't necessarily wrong. But manoman was it good to see them out there. IMO, if they had not gotten hurt, we would be undefeated.
I think the Buzz quote was taken a bit out of context if you isolate it. Reading the article by Rosiak in the Journal he does say he is glad they are back and states that both of them , as new players really have missed the practices and game experience because of their layoffs which accounted for their poor play comparatively speaking. I didn't get the sense that he was ripping on them but simply pointing out that they have a long way to go to get where he wants them to be and are behind the eight ball because of their injuries.
AP article takes the full quote out of context:
"I thought they were both pitiful, and however many minutes they're able to play on Monday, if any, I think they'll be bad again," said coach Buzz Williams.
"If you could pick any two players on the team who you knew needed the 42 practices and the 10 games that we've had prior to tonight, those would be the two that I would pick. We're so size-deficient, and obviously Chris helps that, and we're so length-deficient, and I think Joe helps that.
"Because they've never put on a uniform at a Division I institution, when you miss 42 practices and 10 games, I think you are going to be really, really bad. I think they're familiar with our teminology, but doing dummy offense in practice is different than doing offense out here.
"But it's good to have them, and we need them to get better. I don't know that either one of them will play 11 minutes for a long period of time between now and then, but if they can play six or seven, those 13 minutes combined that we would get from them definitely helps us get to 200 for the game, because we've been stretched pretty thin so far."
I just don't understand what Buzz gets from calling two young players with an obvious need for practice and training "pitiful" and "really, really bad."
Full context from Rosiak:
"I thought they were both pitiful, and however many minutes they're able to play on Monday, if any, I think they'll be bad again," said coach Buzz Williams.
"If you could pick any two players on the team who you knew needed the 42 practices and the 10 games that we've had prior to tonight, those would be the two that I would pick. We're so size-deficient, and obviously Chris helps that, and we're so length-deficient, and I think Joe helps that.
"Because they've never put on a uniform at a Division I institution, when you miss 42 practices and 10 games, I think you are going to be really, really bad. I think they're familiar with our teminology, but doing dummy offense in practice is different than doing offense out here.
He should probably tone down the honesty in publice statements but I do get his point. Buzz is all about earning playing time through practice and game play. Otule and Fulce haven't earned it so while he did play them extended minutes last night someone else like Cubillan received less minutes then he deserved.
Has anyone listened to Buzz's pregame talks? Talk about brutal honesty he has come out and flat out said on numerous occassions that Burke and Hazel don't have a lot of talent. I find that to be a lot more harsh than what he said yesterday about Fulce and Otule. They have missed a ton of time and it showed so in a way, why sugarcoat it. Buzz expects every member of that team to play at a high level and I think his teams will always get a lot better and peak at the right times because of it.
Boy some of you guys are mamby pamby dress wearers. Buzz is real and calls it as it is. Everything is absolute in basketball!! Is he glad they are back of course!! he stated that. However in completely absolute terms which is how he judges and how he will be judged they were terrible. Did they earn their minutes? how could they when they just started practicing th e day before? Did they play well for their first time out?? well maybe but those are the type of assemssnets mothers make not D1 bball coaches. Did Western Carolina care that it was their first game, will NC state giva crap, Will Nova on 1/1/2009!! Take off the skirts ladies. They were terrible last night!! Do they have promise and potential?? will they get better?? of course but last night they were terrible relative to what we need and the othe rplayers on the court. And I am sure Buzz is telling those guys that he is elated they are back but how much ground they need to amke up. They know exactly where they stand. Tower912 is dead on with his comments. Boy I thought this board was mostly men ?-( ::)
Mr. Hayward nails it.
Some of us on this board grew up during a time where we were not coddled and recieved a trophy every time we showed up to practice and mommy and daddy didn't tell us we were wonderful everytime we tied our shoes. They have practiced one time and played 11 minutes this season....unless they are the next coming of Dwayne Wade they are going to be bad for awhile. Perhaps Coach Williams needs to buy a thesaurus and use terms like rusty, but he simply states the truth and a real athlete appreciates that. On other threads we have learned that Coach Williams teaches his athletes and praises them when they deserve it. He uses their failures and mistakes to teach them something. As long as he is doing those things and is consistent in his approach, players will appreciate it and continue to work and constantly yearn to improve. Now that these two players have had a game experience, Coach Williams can pick 2 or 3 things for them to concentrate on in practice so they can get better. If they show improvement in those areas, Coach Williams will undoubtedly praise them in the post-game press conference.
What do you want a michigan used car salesman or a texas straight shooter? Both have their negatives, but I think our Texas guy recruits better.
Quote from: MR.HAYWARD on December 20, 2008, 09:56:33 AM
Boy some of you guys are mamby pamby dress wearers. Buzz is real and calls it as it is. Everything is absolute in basketball!! Is he glad they are back of course!! he stated that. However in completely absolute terms which is how he judges and how he will be judged they were terrible. Did they play well for their first time out?? well maybe but those are the type of assemssnets mothers make not D1 bball coaches. Did Western Carolina care that it was their first game, will NC state giva crap, Will Nova on 1/1/2009!! Take off the skirts ladies. They were terrible last night!! Do they have promise and potential?? will they get better?? of course but last night they were terrible relative to what we need and the othe rplayers on the court. And I am sure Buzz is telling those guys that he is elated they are back but how much ground they need to amke up. They know exactly where they stand. Tower912 is dead on with his comments. Boy I thought this board was mostly men ?-( ::)
+1...And I love the Denny Crane quote with "mamby pamby"!!!!
Look, Buzz's brutal honesty is going to rub some people the wrong way. Personally I prefer his no nonsense, don't hold anything back attitude. It's a nice refreshing change of pace from the coach speak, sugarcoating style of the guy we had before...I always forget his name. Keep up the good work Buzz! I'm behind you 100%
Quote from: MR.HAYWARD on December 20, 2008, 09:56:33 AM
Boy some of you guys are mamby pamby dress wearers. Buzz is real and calls it as it is. Everything is absolute in basketball!! Is he glad they are back of course!! he stated that. However in completely absolute terms which is how he judges and how he will be judged they were terrible. Did they play well for their first time out?? well maybe but those are the type of assemssnets mothers make not D1 bball coaches. Did Western Carolina care that it was their first game, will NC state giva crap, Will Nova on 1/1/2009!! Take off the skirts ladies. They were terrible last night!! Do they have promise and potential?? will they get better?? of course but last night they were terrible relative to what we need and the othe rplayers on the court. And I am sure Buzz is telling those guys that he is elated they are back but how much ground they need to amke up. They know exactly where they stand. Tower912 is dead on with his comments. Boy I thought this board was mostly men ?-( ::)
totally agree. Both Fuulce and Otule will get pushed around in BE play and Buzz is letting them knowthey better really step it up or get ready to ride the pine.
Quote from: MR.HAYWARD on December 20, 2008, 09:56:33 AM
Boy some of you guys are mamby pamby dress wearers. Buzz is real and calls it as it is. Everything is absolute in basketball!! Is he glad they are back of course!! he stated that. However in completely absolute terms which is how he judges and how he will be judged they were terrible. Did they play well for their first time out?? well maybe but those are the type of assemssnets mothers make not D1 bball coaches. Did Western Carolina care that it was their first game, will NC state giva crap, Will Nova on 1/1/2009!! Take off the skirts ladies. They were terrible last night!! Do they have promise and potential?? will they get better?? of course but last night they were terrible relative to what we need and the othe rplayers on the court. And I am sure Buzz is telling those guys that he is elated they are back but how much ground they need to amke up. They know exactly where they stand. Tower912 is dead on with his comments. Boy I thought this board was mostly men ?-( ::)
Very good post. Agree 100%
What people don't understand is they
HAVEN'T earned the right to play. What have they done? Nothing but literally SIT for 7 weeks. How much have they actually practiced? The article said that they went through walk throughs and were cleared to play. That doesn't qualify as "earning the right to play" for me. Just show up for practice and you can play right away?
They DID look awful. Otule didn't seem to know his place on defense. Fulce looked tentative. You really think those 2 are ready for Big East play? If they look like that versus a team we should have doubled up, imagine them against a UConn...
Everyone's quick to criticize these two, but at least Buzz is straightforward. Sugar coating everything isn't going to get you anywhere. The ceiling for Otule is very high, and letting him think performances like last night are acceptable at this stage of the season would cripple him for the rest of the year. They've both got a LOT of work to do and I don't care of Buzz tells the papers, their mothers, or santa clause. Nor do I care how Buzz goes about saying it. Because we're all here saying that they stunk, why not the coach too? At least he doesn't have homer goggles on and can look at the team from an objective standpoint.
It is really a double message. He is telling the players they need to work hard to learn how to play the the game, especially on defense. I do not think you want players to think they should just be able to play without working as hard as everyone else. He is also telling the fans not to judge these players on how they look now.
While I agree he should be brutally honest with the players, I don't like the idea of "airing your dirty laundry in public." There is no need to take it out in public on two guys, who through no fault of their own, have not been able to properly integrate into the team. Calling them pitiful, in public, is PITIFUL in my opinion.
Personally, I was a big fan of the Buzz hire. That said, I have been a little less than pleased with the way he has handled himself in the press. There are other examples of this that I have pointed out in the past. Brutal honesty is not always in the best interests of the team, even if it makes us "fans" - who are always salivating for one more morsel of information - content. Sometimes you need to sugarcoat and sometimes you need to play an angle. What is said in the press can always be used against you. Buzz should be mindful of that.
In the end, my major concern (coaching) has been alleviated. But, the "brutally honest" stuff is getting old.
When just reading the quotes, it doesn't look great.
However, I heard him on the on radio (postgame) and the statements didn't sound so bad. He said the same stuff, but I think the intention was simply trying to be realistic about expectations... it didn't sound like a knock on Chris of Joe.
I don't know if the postgame show is available online anywhere, but if you listen to that it will provide some more context (tone, conversation, etc.).
If Buzz is going to be honest (and I agree I'd rather hear the truth than coachspeak BS), then let's hear the truth about Cubillan. You can't have it both ways. Don't sit Cubes for all but 30 seconds, then talk about how much he means to the team, then point out how bad two guys who have been injured are in their first game back.
Quote from: ecompt on December 20, 2008, 01:57:05 PM
If Buzz is going to be honest (and I agree I'd rather hear the truth than coachspeak BS), then let's hear the truth about Cubillan. You can't have it both ways. Don't sit Cubes for all but 30 seconds, then talk about how much he means to the team, then point out how bad two guys who have been injured are in their first game back.
Buzz was honest when it comes to Cubes. He basically said Cubes can only play the 2 and there are at least three other players that can and do play the 2. Mo plays the 1 and DJ is the only other 1, so Cubes is basically the odd man out. Buzz also said he had to do a better job with the rotation acknowledging the Cubes should have gotten more time. Read Rosiak's blog on the game for what Buzz said.
There has to be something more. When Buzz inserts Jerel back into the game with two fouls in the first half, as he did against UT, it shows me that either he has no faith whatsoever in Cubes or that Cubes is hurt. The quotes from Rosiak's blog came after the Tennessee game, I believe, so you would have thought Cubes would get more time lost night. That wasn't the case.
Quote from: MUCam on December 20, 2008, 01:26:10 PM
While I agree he should be brutally honest with the players, I don't like the idea of "airing your dirty laundry in public." There is no need to take it out in public on two guys, who through no fault of their own, have not been able to properly integrate into the team. Calling them pitiful, in public, is PITIFUL in my opinion.
Personally, I was a big fan of the Buzz hire. That said, I have been a little less than pleased with the way he has handled himself in the press. There are other examples of this that I have pointed out in the past. Brutal honesty is not always in the best interests of the team, even if it makes us "fans" - who are always salivating for one more morsel of information - content. Sometimes you need to sugarcoat and sometimes you need to play an angle. What is said in the press can always be used against you. Buzz should be mindful of that.
In the end, my major concern (coaching) has been alleviated. But, the "brutally honest" stuff is getting old.
You see the thing is Buzz could care less what the press and others think about him. he has said that numerous times. you may not like it but that is who he is and how he will be. Myself, and i beleive the majority of others, much prefer this style. Our last coach cared most about public perception, out new could care less. myfavorite Mu coach didnt care either!! change can be refresshing
You see the thing is Buzz could care less what the press and others think about him. he has said that numerous times. you may not like it but that is who he is and how he will be. Myself, and i beleive the majority of others, much prefer this style. Our last coach cared most about public perception, out new could care less. myfavorite Mu coach didnt care either!! change can be refresshing
I heard his comments on the post game last night with Homer. I was surprised he said a pair of injured guys hadn't earned the right to play. There is at least one player on the team who deserved a lambasting after the TN game. If he's willing to make acerbic comments about guys who are hurt, than he should have no reservations about making the same type of comments about players who make boneheaded decisions. At least these two have a valid excuse. They are young and hurt.
I am sure James knew he screwed up, so there is no reason for the coach to drag it out in the media. I also think there are a lot of times that the foul on the three point shot would not have been called since the ball had already left the shooters hand and it looked like the shooter fell down on his own. Also a lot of times the technical would not have been called. Buzz did say he did not see the technical and does not know what James did to get the call. I can understand James' frustration when he got the technical. He was fouled on the shot and got no call and then they called a weak foul on Burke on the rebound. Hopefully, James learns from the experience. They said that the last techincal MU got was on Trend in the Stanford game and before that it was by Diener. If that is true then in James prior to this has never had a technical and MU has only had one technical during his tenure at MU. James had no reason to believe he would get a technical called on him and I believe in most games they would not have called it.
i figured he was talking about mcneal
It's funny, I guess it depends on who is saying it publicly about the players. Crean was ripped a new one for saying a player didn't play well, by some of the very people now saying this is no big deal. ::)
My point of view....I didn't mind it when Crean did it and I don't mind it when Buzz does it.
If you heard him actually say it in the post game it really is a non issue.
He might have just as well said...."They didn't play great but they played about how I expected considering they have been out all year. They will get better and we will need them to get better".
While I hate coach-speak, I think Buzz went overboard here. Confidence is such a big part of the game, and its something that most freshman struggle with. I have no idea how Buzz coming out publicly making those outrageous comments help the development of 2 kids we desperately need.
I like the word "putrid." In fact, I would use it to describe the process that produced Buzz Williams as the most visible person and the public image of Marquette University.
I hear that Cubes is transfering, granted this was after the game friday in a bar at 1:30, so it might just be drunk talk or me taking a drunks kids ramblings as informed, but that is what i heard.
even, it this is BS, there has to be more to it than Cubes is stuck behind 3 other guys who can play the 2.
Quote from: jaybilaswho? on December 22, 2008, 12:04:54 PM
I hear that Cubes is transfering, granted this was after the game friday in a bar at 1:30, so it might just be drunk talk or me taking a drunks kids ramblings as informed, but that is what i heard.
even, it this is BS, there has to be more to it than Cubes is stuck behind 3 other guys who can play the 2.
hrm.. wouldn't that cost him his last year of eligibility?! If so, I doubt he's transferring anywhere.