I thought we really battled and played well, but it's the same old story with this team and I think we may as well get used to it. Lack of depth, complete, utter, total (and any other adjective you can think of) absence of an interior player and poor FT shooting means we have to hit a good percentage of threes, control the defensive boards (our defense on the initial shot is very good) and turn the other team over much more that we turn the ball over to beat good teams.
I know its beating a dead horse, but the other schools are getting wise that you don't have to worry about the dump off pass to Burke or Butler when we penetrate, because they cannot catch the ball and score. I know we all realize this and it it useless to point it out, but it is so frustrating to watch, especially when you think how much more effective McNeal, James and Matthews would be if we had a 6-9 guy who could catch and jam.
Our depth will improve once we get Fulce and O'Tule back for what looks to be the Presbyterian game. Marquette only used 8 players in the game.
Quote from: TallTitan34 on December 16, 2008, 11:15:45 PM
Our depth will improve once we get Fulce and O'Tule back for what looks to be the Presbyterian game. Marquette only used 8 players in the game.
I think many have unrealistic expectations for Fulce and especially for Otule.
+1
Quote from: TallTitan34 on December 16, 2008, 11:15:45 PM
Our depth will improve once we get Fulce and O'Tule back for what looks to be the Presbyterian game. Marquette only used 8 players in the game.
Box scores says only 8 played, Cubillan got into the game in the first half and was taken out a minute later after letting a Tennessee player go right by him.
Quote from: 79Warrior on December 16, 2008, 11:17:55 PM
I think many have unrealistic expectations for Fulce and especially for Otule.
My expectation is that Fulce and O'Tule can play some minutes and draw some fouls away from our starters so they don't have to play the majority of the game.
I don't think that is unrealistic at all.
Quote from: bma725 on December 16, 2008, 11:19:23 PM
Box scores says only 8 played, Cubillan got into the game in the first half and was taken out a minute later after letting a Tennessee player go right by him.
Was he "schimmeeing" while the Volunteer went right by him?
While I agree it is the same old story I believe we were ygoiroughly jobbed NY the reds
Those saying Fulce and Otule will be non-factors are effectively putting us into the NIT. As the announcers said, the Big East is loaded with Chisms. Unless we get more help, Uconn, Pitt, Syracuse, Georgetown, and Louisville will all play out similarly. They did last year, and this year it's even more of a problem. I don't see how we miracously shut these players down without new personnel.
Also, since it doesn't get said when we lose, McNeal is the MVP of this team. Matthews may be most likely to succeed at the next level, but this team wins when McNeal plays well and loses when McNeal plays poorly or doesn't get on the floor.
Quote from: chapman on December 16, 2008, 11:33:43 PM
Those saying Fulce and Otule will be non-factors are effectively putting us into the NIT.
+ 1/2
I think we are a borderline NCAA team as presently constructed, 50/50 shot at the tournament. Need to beat NC State and finish .500 in Big East.
Quote from: CTWarrior on December 16, 2008, 11:12:51 PM
I know we all realize this and it it useless to point it out, but it is so frustrating to watch, especially when you think how much more effective McNeal, James and Matthews would be if we had a 6-9 guy who could catch and jam.
It's sad actually. As a 3-headed monster arguably the best backcourt ever at MU, and the best center they had was Ooze as a senior.
Quote from: chapman on December 16, 2008, 11:33:43 PM
Those saying Fulce and Otule will be non-factors are effectively putting us into the NIT. As the announcers said, the Big East is loaded with Chisms. Unless we get more help, Uconn, Pitt, Syracuse, Georgetown, and Louisville will all play out similarly. They did last year, and this year it's even more of a problem. I don't see how we miracously shut these players down without new personnel.
Also, since it doesn't get said when we lose, McNeal is the MVP of this team. Matthews may be most likely to succeed at the next level, but this team wins when McNeal plays well and loses when McNeal plays poorly or doesn't get on the floor.
Wouldn't that make him the most MIP, the Most Inconsistent Player? I love McNeal but Matthews is the glue and the Most Valuable Player in my opinion through the first 3rd of the season. Shows up every game and plays smart. McNeal still makes plays that I shake my head on. As a senior, he has to value the ball more.
Overall, I wasn't displeased with this game. Went as I expected...a loss to a good team on the road. Buzz did a decent job, made some nice calls but also a few that were questionable. That's part of the learning process.
NCState will be a lot tougher then many are making it out to be. Tough tough game in a true road environment setting.
Still a NCAA team if they play to their potential.
Same ol, same ol is right:
]NO INSIDE GAME; NO INSIDE GAME; NO INSIDE GAME;
Except for Mathews, terrible free throw shoortng; no bench; and James cannot shoot
With the 4 players we have, we should not lose to these type teams, but we have stiffs inside, and continue to get hammered there.
Where is the guy that said Burke would have a big game? I guess he did--3 points is way above his average.
Dosen't anybody else get tired of this stupid weave outside and then hoist a three?
I sam disgusted. No inside game, no inside game, no inside game.
That really ticks me off. We will be killed in the BE
Quote from: willie warrior on December 17, 2008, 05:38:54 AM
I sam disgusted. No inside game, no inside game, no inside game.
That really ticks me off. We will be killed in the BE
You cannot teach height. Pearl went at us in a match-up game. UT and Dayton could match our quickness. UT tried to limit/offset the three amigos--which again was to take Jerel and DJ out of the game just like for Dayton. UCONN, Louisville can match our strength in the BE, but many others cannot. Don't panic...and we are about to get taller and deeper. This will give us and our opponenets different looks--and free up our current bench guys to do what they do best.
Nothing new to add except that this was basically an away game. I saw very few MU fans at the game but not nearly as much gold and blue as there was orange last night.
I'm not exactly sure what Buzz and Co can do about the lack of an inside game. They just don't have the horses to play with teams when they can match our quickness at the outside. Look, Burke and Hazel aren't dogging it out there...they are just severely limited. Otule and Fulce are hurt. Mbakwe screwed us. Hayward is playing out of position. What else can they do?
I still very much consider us an NCAA tourney team. In my mind, there's not much to be down over last night, save for our lack of depth/size, which is something we can overcome over time, not to mention having Fulce and Otule back.
I would've loved to see the result if the refs weren't such a factor. Maybe we'd have won, maybe not, but I would have liked to see it. That stretch of fouls in the secnd half was a killer.
Our guys battled their arses off and deserve a ton of credit for the effort. With no inside presence, few subs and on a hostile court it was a 2 point game with 2:11 left.
I can only think that with the return on Fulce and Otule, no matter how limited their contributions this season, we will be a better team by the end of January and a lot better by March.
Our job in the interim: win the games we are supposed to win and steal one now and then to get to the dance.
Our seniors and Lazar will play their butts off every night, and that's all you can ask. But you can't play 4 against 12 and expect to win. Dwight simply can't catch the ball, and even if he could he's playing against guys who are bigger, stronger asnd faster than he is. Dom still cannot shoot, and his tech last night I thought was the turning point. And I think it's safe to say that no Division I team gets less from its bench than we do. It's sad that the Three Amigos, who have done so much for the school, will have to struggle so hard to carry this team into the NCAAs.
Quote from: ecompt on December 17, 2008, 09:07:44 AM
Our seniors and Lazar will play their butts off every night, and that's all you can ask. But you can't play 4 against 12 and expect to win. Dwight simply can't catch the ball, and even if he could he's playing against guys who are bigger, stronger asnd faster than he is. Dom still cannot shoot, and his tech last night I thought was the turning point. And I think it's safe to say that no Division I team gets less from its bench than we do. It's sad that the Three Amigos, who have done so much for the school, will have to struggle so hard to carry this team into the NCAAs.
Unfortunately, TC's departure has obviously impacted the roster this season for the worse along with the impact of injuries. Just where we are at this point. but, the future is bright.
well, not for nuttin' as the saying goes out here, (translation for those of you outside of RI, not that it makes any difference), but, it is clear why we don't have more seasoned, tall help who can contribute and can help our fab four.
But, that ship has sailed, so our only hope is that we play hard every night, that we don't get useless technical fouls, that we don't re-sub our starter with 2 fouls back into the game at the 3:50 mark of the first half to pick up his 3rd, and that we improve our FT shooting. That, and any development/help we can get from Fulce and Otule may get us into the dance.
BTW, whatever happened to our slashing, driving point guard? I sure miss his slicing through defenses to get bunnies. I suppose with so little outside game and interior presence it is easier to deny the lane to him.
What makes me mad is that we have 3 very well seasoned seniors on our team that, at times, do not play like seniors. They didn't act like it against UW-M, UW, and again last night. Maybe I expect too much but when you have guys on your team that have played the minutes that these three have and have played in the games that these three have, I expect them to play SMART basketball- that doesn't mean frantically throwing up threes or putting your head down and running straight to the paint. Keep your head up and be aware of the high percentage shots that you or your team can be taking. An off balance run and gun behind the arc isn't going to take you very far, unless your team has a Novak.
What I would also love to see is this team hit their mid range jumpers. If we could make even half of these that would be great.
If McNeal would have simply stayed home, the game would have been no different. He looked lethargic and made a number of stupid decisions, with and without the ball.
If McNeal stays home, we lose that game by 20. Who's going to take those minutes?
Quote from: ATWizJr on December 17, 2008, 09:54:10 AM
But, that ship has sailed, so our only hope is that we play hard every night, that we don't get useless technical fouls, that we don't re-sub our starter with 2 fouls back into the game at the 3:50 mark of the first half to pick up his 3rd, and that we improve our FT shooting. That, and any development/help we can get from Fulce and Otule may get us into the dance.
BTW, whatever happened to our slashing, driving point guard? I sure miss his slicing through defenses to get bunnies. I suppose with so little outside game and interior presence it is easier to deny the lane to him.
Buzz had to gamble on McNeal in the game with 2 fouls. His options were extremely limited. We really couldn't afford to be go down at half after having a big early lead. Cube, Acker and Butler showed nothing at that point in time. With Fulce and Otule, McNeal is done for the half and at least you have length out on the court. I actually think Buzz and the team did a great job of controlling the tempo of the game. Any sort of helter skelter up and down game would have been the death of us.
And James did drive to the hoop numerous times. Problem was Burke and Butler couldn't grab a hold of the ball that was dished to them, let alone actually convert down in the paint for once.
Quote from: mufanatic on December 17, 2008, 03:44:12 PMAnd James did drive to the hoop numerous times. Problem was Burke and Butler couldn't grab a hold of the ball that was dished to them, let alone actually convert down in the paint for once.
I think the main problem with Burke is that he is one of the slowest post players I've ever seen. His speed - both laterally and vertically - around the basket makes Aaron Gray look like Amare Stoudamire.
If one of the other players on the court dumps him the ball in the post and he has an open path to the basket, by the time he gathers and actually gets the ball up to his head to take it to the hole, at least one defender, usually taller than he is, has him covered. As a result he'll either miss the shot or get hacked and miss at least one of the FTs.
He plays hard and I love the effort, but he's just too slow for teams with athletic big guys like we'll be seeing in the Big East and he's not tall enough to compensate.
Could be why he plays so well against UW.
Burke did not start on his high school team and is now being counted on to start in the BEast. He is giving everything he has. His ceiling is just not that high. Curse you, Trevor Mbakwe! Curse you, TC, and your inability to land a quality big!