Have to let it go, but.....14 points in the first half to lead Kansas in scoring tonight. Looks like he's the real deal.
BFD
In case anyone missed it, Taylor led KU in scoring tonight pouring in 23 points in their win over New Mexico St. Something tells me we may have found some minutes for him this season.
Go Warriors. Crush Bucky.
Quote from: reinko on December 03, 2008, 08:13:45 PM
BFD
To have that talent on our roster the next couple years at least...yep, it would have been a BFD.
I got all kind of nasty responses to my suggestion that TT would end up starting or at least getting starter min.by middle of BE season. It is a BFD because TT shows exactly what this team is missing.
In the same vein, look at Ga. Tech box on tonight's game.
Someone refresh my memory...why didn't TT go with TC to IN?
TT molests collies...
Quote from: 77ncaachamps on December 03, 2008, 09:25:16 PM
Someone refresh my memory...why didn't TT go with TC to IN?
Because Hurley ripped TC a new a..hole for leaving MU. Then went on to take jabs at MU for not letting TT out in his desired time frame.
Quote from: 77ncaachamps on December 03, 2008, 09:25:16 PM
Someone refresh my memory...why didn't TT go with TC to IN?
It's Kansas! It's Kansas!
"Tyshawn! Tyshawn!"
(channeling my inner Hackman) "This is your team! This is your team!"
unfortunately, i have a feeling that taylor will end up being a much better player than junior. i know its blasphemy to make such a comment about junior around here, but i just get that feeling. woulda been nice to have them in the same backcourt
i hope im very wrong about this. Heres to Junior being the next Khalid El Amin :)
Quote from: mudimitri on December 03, 2008, 10:19:50 PM
unfortunately, i have a feeling that taylor will end up being a much better player than junior. i know its blasphemy to make such a comment about junior around here, but i just get that feeling. woulda been nice to have them in the same backcourt
i hope im very wrong about this. Heres to Junior being the next Khalid El Amin :)
Not sure what the jab at Junior is about. He is rated high so I have to give him the benefit of the doubt. In actuality, I don't really think he needs to be a game breaker. He just needs to manage the game and distribute. Look at James... I don't think prolific scoring PG's succeed in Buzz's system, which is fine. I don't think James is a prolific scorer but I think he is a slasher that is focusing on passing first. I don't think "pass first" comes naturally with James. (Something I have always thought about James, I don't need people throwing stats at me cus it won't change my opinion of his style)
Taylor has a lot of D Wade in him!
Let it go. You make it sound like we dumped TT but he's the one who asked to leave. He's a great player but he didn't want to play for MU, Junior does so there's no comparison, junior is and will be better...
Shumpert played really well last night as well for GT.
For those who obsess about "the one that got away", maybe it is a BFD for you. Most fans could really care less about playing the "what if" game.
Yes, Shumpert played well, but his team sucks. Losing to Penn State at home? Hope Iman enjoys losing records.
Quote from: mudimitri on December 03, 2008, 10:19:50 PM
unfortunately, i have a feeling that taylor will end up being a much better player than junior. i know its blasphemy to make such a comment about junior around here, but i just get that feeling. woulda been nice to have them in the same backcourt
i hope im very wrong about this. Heres to Junior being the next Khalid El Amin :)
Obviously, TT+JC > JC alone, but I think we'll be just fine with Junior. Of course, we're feeling it this year, because Taylor's already playing ball. But I'm gonna wait it out and see what Cadougan brings to the table, before I start lamenting about Tyshawn.
Also, would Cadougan even have come, if Taylor hadn't backed out?
Quote from: muarmy81 on December 04, 2008, 06:38:46 AM
Let it go. You make it sound like we dumped TT but he's the one who asked to leave. He's a great player but he didn't want to play for MU, Junior does so there's no comparison, junior is and will be better...
Yup - I
guarantee Cadougan will have better stats @ Marquette than Taylor has @ Marquette. He'll blow him away in every statistical category. The percentages will be obnoxious. End of discussion :)
Is that a George Forman guarantee?
Quote from: 77ncaachamps on December 03, 2008, 09:25:16 PM
Someone refresh my memory...why didn't TT go with TC to IN?
Because he wanted to win right away and not be on possible probation.
This kid is the real deal and the recruiting class this year would have been very very good. Oh well.
Rocky---I agree 100%. Junior is going to be the best point guard we have had here in many, many years. The kid is the real deal.
That would be impressive since the last 2(Dom and Travis) were obviously quite skilled.
Quote from: MU_B2002 on December 04, 2008, 11:58:21 AM
That would be impressive since the last 2(Dom and Travis) were obviously quite skilled.
+1
I don't think GYMBAR reads what he types before he posts it... and if he does, I'm not sure he thinks first.
Quote from: THEGYMBAR on December 04, 2008, 11:48:54 AM
Rocky---I agree 100%. Junior is going to be the best point guard we have had here in many, many years. The kid is the real deal.
yea we have seen 2 of the better pg's in MU's history so in the past 7 yrs so i hope you are right.
Travis was nasty and is in the NBA and Dom will end up in the top 3 in many statistical categories- heres to hoping Junior can come close to either
I just am weary about Junior because many are hyping him up and i am worried he wont live up to many people's expectations. As productive as Dominic can be, hes def not a fan favorite and people are looking to Junior to be amazing without realizing that James is MUCH better than many of us think
MU_B2002---Actually I do think before writing. Travis was a great college PG. It all depends on what you believe to be a great PG. Junior has the potential to be a great college PG. After seeing him play I think he has a chance to be one of the best ever MU.
DJ would not make my top 5 all time MU PG's. He has had a nice career, but not even in the team photo for best in school history.
Quote from: THEGYMBAR on December 04, 2008, 01:40:08 PM
MU_B2002---Actually I do think before writing.
That's nice, but I wasn't the one that doubted you. And I really hope he is better than the previous 2, because coupled with our other incoming guys that would equate to good things for MU basketball.
Quote from: THEGYMBAR on December 04, 2008, 01:44:18 PM
DJ would not make my top 5 all time MU PG's. He has had a nice career, but not even in the team photo for best in school history.
I'll go you one further, I preferred Cordell Henry's game.
Quote from: THEGYMBAR on December 04, 2008, 01:44:18 PM
DJ would not make my top 5 all time MU PG's. He has had a nice career, but not even in the team photo for best in school history.
Wow.
Cordell Henry had a great, great senior year. I would take him over DJ any day of the week.
Quote from: THEGYMBAR on December 04, 2008, 02:44:17 PM
Cordell Henry had a great, great senior year. I would take him over DJ any day of the week.
How do you break a full court press??? Cordell Henry... it was fun to watch him run circles around people.
I'm glad to hear you guys say that. I feel like Cordell is kind of a forgotten man in MU circles. There's so much talk about Tony Miller, Travis and now James. But he was definitely one of my favorite point guards. He didn't have even close to the hype DJ, but as a player was much more pleasing to the eye.
Ask Kentucky what it was like to guard Tony Miller. In my mind, Travis is the best point guard MU has ever had. If Junior is half the player TD was, we'll be fine.
I think Tony Miller is the most overrated PG in history. BUT--the game against Kentucky was one of the best I ever saw in person. Miller delivered the goods that day. Love Travis, but would be awfully hard to say he best ever. Couple of guys with their numbers in the rafters come to mind. Plus, the under appreciated Jimmy Boylan. Not saying he was one of the best, but sure knew his role and delivered the goods.
Quote from: THEGYMBAR on December 04, 2008, 02:44:17 PM
Cordell Henry had a great, great senior year. I would take him over DJ any day of the week.
I disagree, and it's not even close.
DJ's numbers are better in almost every category, his athletic ability is better, he can actually go left, his defense is better. DJ is not a good shooter, but neither was Cordell.
Cordell had a great senior year and he was good... however, IMHO, DJ is much better.
Cordell was a really good player but I'll take DJ for my money.
DJ has a 2.0 assist to turnover ratio while Cordell had only a 1.4. DJ is also a better rebounder, has more steals, and would be considered by most to be a better defender while Cordell is better from beyond the arc and markedly better from the stripe (who isn't). DJ also scored 3 points a game more than Cordell while being on a better team for most of his career.
I'm not sure where you rank him, but those who say DJ isn't in the team picture among the great MU points guards are crazy.
My taking Cordell over DJ has to do with winning. Cordell appeared to me to have the killer instinct that I think DJ lacks. DJ has won some guys by himself, but not often. CH played with marginal talent and got it done. CH and Aaron Hutchins were guys that seemed to have ice water in their veins. DJ lacks that trait in my opinion.
Hutch and Cordell also looked like they were having fun out there. I cannot say the same of James, unless he's having a big game.
My favorite CH moment was after a big shot, he made the "tearing your heart out motion" late in a big conference game. I think it may have been against Cincy. Can't remember if this was before or after the game where he got punched in the nuts.
By the way... He is still the man.
http://www.eurocupbasketball.com/ulebcup/home/news/i/23212/448/item
Quote from: THEGYMBAR on December 04, 2008, 03:23:11 PM
My taking Cordell over DJ has to do with winning. Cordell appeared to me to have the killer instinct that I think DJ lacks. DJ has won some guys by himself, but not often. CH played with marginal talent and got it done. CH and Aaron Hutchins were guys that seemed to have ice water in their veins. DJ lacks that trait in my opinion.
What about DJ's game at Valpo?
He was unbelievable that night.
@GYMBAR & REDWEBSTER
See @ Wisconsin, '07-'08 season. Played stellar, stellar D, made some huge dishes, and stared down Hughes then ripped his heart out. DJ gets an unfair shake from a lot of MU fans because he can't shoot, but he's a GREAT talent and far from selfish.
Nobody ever said James hasn't had good games. We just prefer Cordell's game. And if you want to see dominant, get some video of Aaron Hutchins. James was not the player Hutch was, statistics be damnned.
Quote from: RedWebster on December 04, 2008, 01:52:02 PM
I'll go you one further, I preferred Cordell Henry's game.
For the entire career? I'd take DJ definitely in that department. Cordell had one really good year. DJ is a better passer, better defender, better rebounder IMO. Definitely a better scorer (not shooter, mind you, but being able to go to the hole and score is done with greater ease by DJ then Cordell ever could).
Quote from: RedWebster on December 04, 2008, 04:32:36 PM
Nobody ever said James hasn't had good games. We just prefer Cordell's game. And if you want to see dominant, get some video of Aaron Hutchins. James was not the player Hutch was, statistics be damnned.
I guess that's fair... but the idea the DJ doesn't have a killer instinct (brought up earlier in the thread) just isn't true.
He might not be a great shooter... but the kid can be a killer.
Remember at UofL Frosh. year? He made the running 3pter to send it to overtime.
The kid can play, he just gets a tough rap because his game has not improved at the rate most people would expect.
Quote from: RedWebster on December 04, 2008, 04:32:36 PM
Nobody ever said James hasn't had good games. We just prefer Cordell's game. And if you want to see dominant, get some video of Aaron Hutchins. James was not the player Hutch was, statistics be damnned.
James also isn't the slacker Hutchins was, is a much better student then Hutch and a number of other things that shall not be repeated.
gotta throw my 2 cents in here...Cordell was great to watch in a ton of categories except he just could not go to the hoop with his left hand...he never seemed to develop this skill...not sure if that comes down to Deane and/or assistant coaches but he should have developed it at some point...I remember whenever he tried going or faking left, he didn't fool any defenders, at least if he had previously tried going left...
Not even a contest. Dean "Our Dream, Their Nightmare" Meminger was the Warriors' best point guard, ever.
OK, thank god this thread turned into a nice discussion about "best MU PGs", because, seriously, WHO CARES about Taylor?! He went somewhere else, stop whining and move on with your lives!! Who knows how he would have been had he ended up here, he could have been a complete CANCER whining about minutes. He certainly acted real maturely during the Crean fiasco.
As for MU PGs...I wasn't around to see Meminger, but as for who I've seen:
1. Diener 2. DJ 3. Tony Miller 4. Hutchins 5. Cordell Henry... 2458. Niv Berkowitz.
But you forgot Barone, 2457? Did he play point? I can't remember for sure.
Quote from: Hards_Alumni on December 04, 2008, 12:31:07 PM
+1
I don't think GYMBAR reads what he types before he posts it... and if he does, I'm not sure he thinks first.
But he says it with such certainty. It must be true.
Just like when he said Jamil Wilson will commit to MU.
Quote from: 4everwarriors on December 04, 2008, 07:01:08 PM
Not even a contest. Dean "Our Dream, Their Nightmare" Meminger was the Warriors' best point guard, ever.
I agree. I'd then put Tony Miller at #2 and Travis at #3.
Dean was the greatest 6-0 post player I ever saw. Amazing leaping ability. But he wasn't a true point guard. If you think DJ has problems with his shot, you shiould have heard the groans in the Milwaukee Arena when Dean went up for his 18-footers. Nothing against Dean (he's probably #3 on my list), but Travis did erverything well.
How about some love for Mandy Johnson? He might be one of the best defenders in school history. In addition, he might be one of the worst ball handlers in school history.
While only here a couple of years Sam Worthen was fun to watch. Might have been our tallest PG ever. Who can forget Allie McGuire? Played on maybe our best team ever.
I arrived at MU for the 79-80 season, and my favorite PGs:
1. Deiner
2. Miller - Probably more problematic as a shooter than even James, but as the only true ball handler or player with real quickness on a sweet 16 team, I don't think his contributions can be over-rated. That team would not have accomplished anything without him.
3. James
3A. Doc Rivers - when he was here there was less delineation between PG and SG as MU's guards were just guards, but Rivers handled the ball as much or more than his backcourt mates
4. Hutch
5. Henry
When you think about it, we've been blessed with some tremedous PGs over the years. I didn't even include Sam Worthen who played a bit in the NBA and was on some people's first team All-American teams going in to his senior season.
does the name Butch Lee ring a bell? He has to be in the mix.
Marcus Jackson
Quote from: ecompt on December 05, 2008, 07:29:03 AM
Dean was the greatest 6-0 post player I ever saw. Amazing leaping ability. But he wasn't a true point guard. If you think DJ has problems with his shot, you shiould have heard the groans in the Milwaukee Arena when Dean went up for his 18-footers. Nothing against Dean (he's probably #3 on my list), but Travis did erverything well.
How many years did Meminger play in the Association? DJ won't make a roster. Dean was the smartest basketball player with the ball in his hands. Have to disagree with you, Eric.
Can still see the Dream with NIT championship trophy sitting on top of his head. He could flat out play.
1. Tackling Dummy 2. Travis Diener
4ever, I wasn't comparing Dean to DJ; I was just saying as a true point guard Travis was (I think) the best MU has had. Dean had a decent pro career, including one Game 7 against the Celtics that stands out, and you're probably right in saying DJ doesm't have much of a shot at the pros. If I had to rank MU point guards I'd put Travis first, Butch second, Dean third, DJ fourth, Hutch or Cordell fifth). I've got Butch in there because he handled the ball much of the time in 77 and 78; I realize in the true point-guard sense Boylan was more of a point.
Travis First - you are smoking crack. Add Tony Miller
You're right about Miller. He's in there somewhere. But smoking crack about Travis? You are kidding, right? Check out the record book.
The record books? If that was the barometer, then DJ would be considered the greatest player in Marquette history.
No, because DJ isn't going to finish ahead of Travis in some key categories. Travis is #2 all-time in scoring, I believe.
DJ is going to finish ahead of Travis in
Points
Assists
Steals
Rebounds
He is also a much better defensive point guard
Travis was a better jump shooter, 3 point shooter and free throw shooter.
I guess it depends what you like. With the game on the line I'd rather the ball in Travis's hands because of his ability to shoot the ball but DJ impacts the entire game as much or more then Travis did.
Don't forget about Lloyd Walton.
DJ is certainly in the top 5 since 1980, along with Worthen, Miller, Hutch and Diener.
If you go all-time, he may not be.
DJ will finish ahead of Travis because of more games played. Travis missed the last eight games of his college career at a time when he was averaging 18-20 points and 6-7 assists a night. DJ is a much better defensive player but if you need a three, Travis was your man. Whatever. I'm glad they both brought credit to MU.
tonight==10 points 11 ast lets see if any of our guys has 11 ast tonight