This whole "TC is MU" lovefest.
It was hard to tolerate the constant Lombardi / Al references growing up and I'm already hating the TC references.
They gloss over the KO years like they never happened. Ask Rick Pitino or Bob Huggins if they never happened.
Another annoying thing. ESPN acts like their poll is the only poll. The announcers keep saying how Marquette dropped out of the top 25 and they had a discussion at half time about the 7 teams from the BE in the top 25. Even mentioned that Marquette was 26th, but never once have they mentioned that MU is 25th in the AP Poll.
Ah yes, the ESPN/Coaches Poll. It's been on my Dead To Me list for years:
(http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff173/TallTitan34/OnNotice-2.jpg)
Quote from: DamonKeysContactLens on December 02, 2008, 08:06:42 PM
This whole "TC is MU" lovefest.
It was hard to tolerate the constant Lombardi / Al references growing up and I'm already hating the TC references.
They gloss over the KO years like they never happened. Ask Rick Pitino or Bob Huggins if they never happened.
Of course, you could ask Tubby Smith, Ben Howland, Jim Calhoun, Coach K, Huggins, Pitino how the felt about the Tom Crean years.
Bottom line: Tom Crean was the most successful coach at MU since Al by pretty much any measure you want to use.
I'm sorry if some have a hard time reconcilling that with there personal TC issues, but it's the truth.
I agree that Tom Crean was the most successful coach at Marquette since Al McGuire.
I just don't think people should knock Buzz in relation to Crean for having one bad loss. Crean had bad losses as well: NDSU, Winthrop, Nebraska. I don't think it's fair to judge Buzz until we play UW, NCState, and Tennessee. Then we will know.
Quote from: MUSF on December 02, 2008, 11:14:53 PM
Bottom line: Tom Crean was the most successful coach at MU since Al by pretty much any measure you want to use.
How about winning %?
Quote from: TallTitan34 on December 02, 2008, 11:21:42 PM
I agree that Tom Crean was the most successful coach at Marquette since Al McGuire.
I just don't think people should knock Buzz in relation to Crean for having one bad loss. Crean had bad losses as well: NDSU, Winthrop, Nebraska. I don't think it's fair to judge Buzz until we play UW, NCState, and Tennessee. Then we will know.
I agree. I also wouldn't call Tom Crean a "great coach." However, the initial post seems to show displeasure with mentions of Crean's success at MU without equal recognition of KO. Well, TC was the better coach at MU and the most recent. Those two factors are going to get Crean more recognition than KO. Sorry.
Quote from: Pardner on December 02, 2008, 11:25:40 PM
How about winning %?
Hmm, didn't we just have a discussion here about the difference between winning in the Big Ten vs. the Big East. How much of a curve do we grade on here with TC coaching in CUSA and the Big East?
BTW, I did caveat my statement with pretty much.
While Crean only won the conference in C-USA I believe Marquette was in the top 3 in terms of total Big East wins in the last three years. That's pretty impressive.
Quote from: MUSF on December 02, 2008, 11:32:59 PM
Hmm, didn't we just have a discussion here about the difference between winning in the Big Ten vs. the Big East. How much of a curve do we grade on here with TC coaching in CUSA and the Big East?
BTW, I did caveat my statement with pretty much.
Who said anything about CUSA? The Wiki will give you your answer: http://wiki.muscoop.com/doku.php/men_s_basketball/hank_raymonds
And yes, winning % is pretty much important.
Here's a slightly better link for the breakdown of coaches and their winning percentage.
http://wiki.muscoop.com/doku.php/men_s_basketball/coaches#results
And to TT: damn you for reminding me of Jean Felix!
Quote from: TallTitan34 on December 02, 2008, 11:03:16 PM
Ah yes, the ESPN/Coaches Poll. It's been on my Dead To Me list for years:
(http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff173/TallTitan34/OnNotice-2.jpg)
Titan,
That's hilarious...well played
Quote from: TallTitan34 on December 02, 2008, 11:21:42 PM
I agree that Tom Crean was the most successful coach at Marquette since Al McGuire.
I just don't think people should knock Buzz in relation to Crean for having one bad loss. Crean had bad losses as well: NDSU, Winthrop, Nebraska. I don't think it's fair to judge Buzz until we play UW, NCState, and Tennessee. Then we will know.
I would not judge Buzz until the end of the 2010/2011 season when he has his team (ie all his recruits). This year is going to be a struggle as we are so undersized and as Dayton proved take away our fast break its pretty much over. Next year with the exception of Hayward all the top players are frosh.
Polls mean nothing . . . especially in December.
Tom Crean was the most successful coach we've had since Al. Although props must be given to KO for raising Lazarus from the dead.
And yes, there was a second shooter on the grassy knoll.
Go Warriors. Crush Bucky.
My b!tching was coming from the following exchange:
Kaplan: Tom Crean built a great program here
Collins: You mean rebuilt
Kaplan: Yeah Al was pretty good too
If you want to gloss over 4 NCAAs in 5 years and that off year was a NIT runner up, well do so, but KO had this thing humming and without Prop 48s, Jucos, The Al, private recriting jets etc.
I'm not taking anything away from the amazing years TC gave us...but it's insulting to MU's history and all MU fans when they don't acknowledge that since we started sponsoring a basketball team, we've been pretty solid. Top 50 in wins, higher than that in NCAA appearances.
Indulge me for two more minutes...when I was in college:
We won a regular season conf title (where 4 of 7 conf teams went to the NCAAs)
Went to the Sweet 16
Went to 3 NCAAs total
Won a Conf Tournament Title
NIT Runner Up
Not a bad four years...But remember Tom Crean made Marquette!
Quote from: DamonKeysContactLens on December 03, 2008, 08:40:28 AM
My b!tching was coming from the following exchange:
Kaplan: Tom Crean built a great program here
Collins: You mean rebuilt
Kaplan: Yeah Al was pretty good too
If you want to gloss over 4 NCAAs in 5 years and that off year was a NIT runner up, well do so, but KO had this thing humming and without Prop 48s, Jucos, The Al, private recriting jets etc.
I'm not taking anything away from the amazing years TC gave us...but it's insulting to MU's history and all MU fans when they don't acknowledge that since we started sponsoring a basketball team, we've been pretty solid. Top 50 in wins, higher than that in NCAA appearances.
Indulge me for two more minutes...when I was in college:
We won a regular season conf title (where 4 of 7 conf teams went to the NCAAs)
Went to the Sweet 16
Went to 3 NCAAs total
Won a Conf Tournament Title
NIT Runner Up
Not a bad four years...But remember Tom Crean made Marquette!
It's not that big of a deal.
The dudes were just talking about the recent history of the program (crean) and they threw in the obligatory Al comment.
I think you are just looking for things about Crean that you can get annoyed with, or upset about.
Relax. He's gone. If MU does well over the next 5 years, we won't be talking about Crean just like we don't talk about KO.
Quote from: DamonKeysContactLens on December 03, 2008, 08:40:28 AM
My b!tching was coming from the following exchange:
Kaplan: Tom Crean built a great program here
Collins: You mean rebuilt
Kaplan: Yeah Al was pretty good too
If you want to gloss over 4 NCAAs in 5 years and that off year was a NIT runner up, well do so, but KO had this thing humming and without Prop 48s, Jucos, The Al, private recriting jets etc.
There is nothing inaccurate about the statement that he "rebuilt the program." He did. If he directly followed KO, you would have a point. But he didn't. He followed the train wreck that were the latter Deane years.
Quote from: muwarrior69 on December 03, 2008, 06:47:24 AM
I would not judge Buzz until the end of the 2010/2011 season when he has his team (ie all his recruits). This year is going to be a struggle as we are so undersized and as Dayton proved take away our fast break its pretty much over. Next year with the exception of Hayward all the top players are frosh.
yeah, me too. I can't wait for those bums (like Matthews, James and McNeil) that Crean recruited get outta here so we can see some real ballers.
Seriously, I think the problem is not who Crean recruited but who he failed to recruit.
I have said it here before. Crean did a good job but for whatever reason he had reached his ceiling at MU. Perhaps Buzz can break through it.
Quote from: TallTitan34 on December 02, 2008, 11:21:42 PM
I agree that Tom Crean was the most successful coach at Marquette since Al McGuire.
I just don't think people should knock Buzz in relation to Crean for having one bad loss. Crean had bad losses as well: NDSU, Winthrop, Nebraska. I don't think it's fair to judge Buzz until we play UW, NCState, and Tennessee. Then we will know.
I agree that Crean had some bad losses during his time. Nine years will do that. I also don't think Dayton is a "bad loss" in the way the NCAA Tournament will look at it.
However, I have to quibble with either Winthrop or Nebraska being a "bad loss". Winthrop went to the NCAA Tournament that season and Nebraska was a road game that came far too close to the long flight back from Alaska. It was always going to be a loss with three Freshmen starting.