I heard that Bill Cords and Dick Strong were at an Indiana game, can anyone confirm this?
Quote from: mu1642 on December 01, 2008, 02:57:48 PM
I heard that Bill Cords and Dick Strong were at an Indiana game, can anyone confirm this?
Yep, you could see them on TV a few weeks ago right behind the IU bench.
Crean made an effort to not lose some of the ties he had when left. Some people may not like it, but it happens all the time
Quote from: MU-OOA on December 01, 2008, 04:15:15 PM
Crean made an effort to not lose some of the ties he had when left. Some people may not like it, but it happens all the time
TC should lose those ties. They're too long and he looks ridiculous wearing them. ;D
You won't see Father Wild at any IU games; that I know for a fact.
ha, connections would have probably been the better word to use there ;)
Quote from: ecompt on December 01, 2008, 10:32:31 PM
You won't see Father Wild at any IU games; that I know for a fact.
Yeah, a priest holding a grudge over a basketball team. Let's stand up and cheer.
Just because some people here think Crean is, in fact, Satan, I don't think we should turn the pitchforks and torches on Cords and Strong. I also hope that an upstanding Jesuit like Fr. Wild has been able to forgive his old coach and move on.
Pretty sure that's the point: that Fr. Wild has moved on. No reason to keep supporting the guy now that he's gone. Strong and Cords, well, they don't work for the school, so let's just hope they had a good time watching Crean's team suck.
If Crean is asking Dick Strong and Bill Cords to Indiana games...why is it that people thing that Marquette folks haven't moved on. It seems to me the opposite is true.
Oh, please. Let's just say Fr. Wild was more than a little upset when he was told Crean was bolting. Not because Crean was Satan, but because of the kids. That's all he cared about.
Quote from: ecompt on December 02, 2008, 09:49:43 AM
Oh, please. Let's just say Fr. Wild was more than a little upset when he was told Crean was bolting. Not because Crean was Satan, but because of the kids. That's all he cared about.
(http://media.pegasusnews.com/img/categories/HelenLovejoy_t630.jpg)
maybe TC can get cords an ass't ad job in charge of waving to the fans and walking the seasonticketholderofthegame out and giving them a plaque.
Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on December 02, 2008, 12:19:26 PM
maybe TC can get cords an ass't ad job in charge of waving to the fans and walking the seasonticketholderofthegame out and giving them a plaque.
Please Ziggy, that was a real job...the only reason they haven't replace JH yet is b/c no one is qualified enough...or Buzz's father-in-law said no.
Quote from: DamonKeysContactLens on December 02, 2008, 12:37:04 PM
Please Ziggy, that was a real job...the only reason they haven't replace JH yet is b/c no one is qualified enough...or Buzz's father-in-law said no.
true, it is hard to smile, wave with one hand, while pickpocketing with the other hand.
Exactly why I feel Strong has too much say at MU. If he wants to chum around with TC he should not be picking coaches here. His last selection hung us out to dry and he is sitting behind the bench? Give me a break!!!
Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on December 02, 2008, 12:19:26 PM
maybe TC can get cords an ass't ad job in charge of waving to the fans and walking the seasonticketholderofthegame out and giving them a plaque.
Part of the job is also to host a bunch of old white alums over coffee and donuts telling stories about your family too.
Quote from: THEGYMBAR on December 02, 2008, 01:05:32 PM
Exactly why I feel Strong has too much say at MU. If he wants to chum around with TC he should not be picking coaches here. His last selection hung us out to dry and he is sitting behind the bench? Give me a break!!!
Strong has done alot more than just bring in Crean (not saying he even did or didnt) and when they picked Buzz, the University just didnt wait around for Strong to pick someone's name out of a hat. Lets stop and be realistic for a second. Sure Strong had a voice in it, but a lot of other folks did too. I think its time to move on, let them do what they want. If Strong wants to watch Crean's team play, let him. I'm sure that wont affect how he feels about Marquette. When Crean left, he didnt take what Marquette means to so many of us. He's just a coach.
Quote from: THEGYMBAR on December 02, 2008, 01:05:32 PM
Exactly why I feel Strong has too much say at MU. If he wants to chum around with TC he should not be picking coaches here. His last selection hung us out to dry and he is sitting behind the bench? Give me a break!!!
His last selection also delivered a Final Four for the first time in three decades.
Strong & Cords are friends with Crean. Friendships are strong bonds and no one should be asked to give those up just because the guy left for another school.
Crean hardly left MU high and dry. That is an opinion not based on facts. You're entitled to your own opinion but not to your own facts. The program is a LOT LOT LOT better then when he started. It's not even comparable. High and dry is when you leave a program on NCAA probation, or leave a program with absolutely no talent, or leave a program in the middle of the season.
Yes, he left and that sucks. Was he a dink? Yes. Was he a jerk? Yes. Could he not recruit big men? Yes. Yes, Yes, yes. All givens. But high and dry? Not even close. Graduation rates through the roof, no NCAA violations, a new facility, top conference in the country, attendance at an all time high, three straight NCAAs and poised for a fourth. I'm sorry, but that's not leaving the program high and dry under any interpretation.
Buzz was handed a great situation and he's already landed a great recruiting class because of that situation. He has a lot to sell kids because this program wasn't left high and dry, but rather prospering.
The landscape is littered with programs that were truly left high and dry by the previous coach and Marquette is not one of them under any definition.
Chico's---High and dry was meant regarding us being ill prepared to conduct a professional coaching search. MU was caught in the headlights and shame on us, not TC. But, with that said, I think Strong should make better decisions. Throwing money at coaches might be a hobby for him. Currently MU needs a driving force to be sugar daddy, not a control freak.
I stated all last spring how important MU ball is for the school. I stated the economics of private education was about change. Well, it sure changed on 9/15 when the US economy hit the skids. The school cannot afford not be a success on the court. MU ball has to pay a lot of bills and now more than ever.
MU is in far better shape than when TC arrived. But, I am not going to be convinced that we did a professional job of hiring Buzz. The jury on this hire is 2-3 years out. Problem I have is that in 2-3 years a decade of hard work can be lost.
I said a few dozen times in the spring that moving forward after this year is what counts. Buzz was given a good program, no doubt about that. What he does next year and the year after is what counts.
Again, I think TC hung MU out to dry with the timing and silence of his departure. It reminded me of when Rick up and left in the summer and we git Dukiet by default. While I want to believe in Santa Claus, I cannot say Buzz was the right hire. MU rolled the dice because TC forced their hand somewhat.
I could care less about Cords. Strong is a big part of the program. I think that chumming around with TC shows one of two things:
1. Poor judgement in picking friends
2. Jocksniff more interested in being a control freak than winning.
Both suck in my mind.
Quote from: THEGYMBAR on December 02, 2008, 02:14:27 PM
I stated all last spring how important MU ball is for the school. I stated the economics of private education was about change. Well, it sure changed on 9/15 when the US economy hit the skids. The school cannot afford not be a success on the court. MU ball has to pay a lot of bills and now more than ever.
Gym- You are entitled to your opinion about Strong and how you think the coaching hiring happened. Just one quick thing. Yes, basketball does bring in a lot of revenue for the university...alot. But, i think you are over estimating how MU pays its bills and how much basketball is actually involved in that equation. MU has done quite well overall in the face of the recession compared to most schools, which includes much bigger schools with much bigger endowments. I can assure you that the economy will get better before the possibility of MU bball falling apart.
MU-OOA----No doubt MU does very well in the endowment area and most areas. MU ball is not going to fall apart and neither will MU. But, if you think the ball team does not hold up the lion share of the athletic department you are mistaken. In addition, private schools are going to struggle with the cost of tuition. MU has had record # of applications post Dwade and because of DWade. Similar happened in the 70's under Al.
Do not kid yourself that MU or any other instituition is going to avoid the economic downturn. Plenty of parents paying full boat or more than 75% of the downstroke have seen their wealth cut a great deal in 80 days. As a parent you make different decisions when wealth is suddenly diminished.
Private high schools are already seeing students leave mid semester to local public schools. This is a major turn of events for private education. The sky is not falling but money and students will be tougher to get next September than this past one.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on December 02, 2008, 01:56:48 PM
His last selection also delivered a Final Four for the first time in three decades.
Strong & Cords are friends with Crean. Friendships are strong bonds and no one should be asked to give those up just because the guy left for another school.
Crean hardly left MU high and dry. That is an opinion not based on facts. You're entitled to your own opinion but not to your own facts. The program is a LOT LOT LOT better then when he started. It's not even comparable. High and dry is when you leave a program on NCAA probation, or leave a program with absolutely no talent, or leave a program in the middle of the season.
Yes, he left and that sucks. Was he a dink? Yes. Was he a jerk? Yes. Could he not recruit big men? Yes. Yes, Yes, yes. All givens. But high and dry? Not even close. Graduation rates through the roof, no NCAA violations, a new facility, top conference in the country, attendance at an all time high, three straight NCAAs and poised for a fourth. I'm sorry, but that's not leaving the program high and dry under any interpretation.
Buzz was handed a great situation and he's already landed a great recruiting class because of that situation. He has a lot to sell kids because this program wasn't left high and dry, but rather prospering.
The landscape is littered with programs that were truly left high and dry by the previous coach and Marquette is not one of them under any definition.
Totally agree, Chicos. About the only thing we should be upset with is how it went down on april fools day particularly as to the players and Fr. Wild. Otherwise, he did a tremendous job at MU. May have been a self-serving individual who irritated some folks; but, thats true of many coaches and people in highly visible jobs. In the end, lets thank TC for what he did and move on.
Gymbar, TC handled his leaving like a jerk with no backbone but he quit in April...in the beginning of Coaching Carosel Month.
IMO, he should have told Fr Wild & the team before Mike McCarthy & Tom Izzo and his sports-radio-loving brother-in-law but even if he did the honorable thing, how would MU have been any better positioned to hire a coach?
Damon---By having a qualified search committee in place, a short list and long list and AD with experience. Hiring Buzz was never my issue, the way he was hired was my issue and that feeling remains. It lacked professionalism. MU is better than that and smarter then to get caught with their johnson in their hand.
99% of great leaders know a key employee is leaving before he leaves. That is why they are great leaders. Cottingham found out by watching ESPN.
Quote from: THEGYMBAR on December 02, 2008, 03:02:41 PM
Damon---By having a qualified search committee in place, a short list and long list and AD with experience. Hiring Buzz was never my issue, the way he was hired was my issue and that feeling remains. It lacked professionalism. MU is better than that and smarter then to get caught with their johnson in their hand.
99% of great leaders know a key employee is leaving before he leaves. That is why they are great leaders. Cottingham found out by watching ESPN.
And how would MU have been better off to find a new coach if Crean had told them the day before he left? There would not be time for MU to do anything you suggested. MU may or may not have handled the coaching search/hire the right way but frankly it had nothing to do with the manner TC left.
Jmayer---You prepare for bad things before they happen. Never assume that anything is going to happen. They were caught flat footed and shame on them. You prepare for the worst and hope for the best. We are hoping for the best with Buzz without having done any preparation.
Quote from: THEGYMBAR on December 02, 2008, 02:47:47 PM
MU-OOA----No doubt MU does very well in the endowment area and most areas. MU ball is not going to fall apart and neither will MU. But, if you think the ball team does not hold up the lion share of the athletic department you are mistaken. In addition, private schools are going to struggle with the cost of tuition. MU has had record # of applications post Dwade and because of DWade. Similar happened in the 70's under Al.
Do not kid yourself that MU or any other instituition is going to avoid the economic downturn. Plenty of parents paying full boat or more than 75% of the downstroke have seen their wealth cut a great deal in 80 days. As a parent you make different decisions when wealth is suddenly diminished.
Private high schools are already seeing students leave mid semester to local public schools. This is a major turn of events for private education. The sky is not falling but money and students will be tougher to get next September than this past one.
The record number of applications to MU every year isnt just because of dwade as you claim it to be. Im sure some people bring that into their decision making but its not solely because of him, thats a fact. Second, I wasnt just talking about endowment- I was talking about how MU pays its "bills" as a whole. Yes, of course, mens bball brings in a great portion of the revenue for the AD, as I never said it didnt.
Your connection to MU basketball and the economic downturn still doesnt make sense as far as parents and students making decisions based on wealth. You are arguing two different points. Both are valid, but have holes in them.
Ultimately you were upset because you think Strong has too much say in how you think "decisions are made" within university (and his relations to Crean) and have now reverted to your previous arguments (1. MUbball Revenue & 2. The Economy) to try and rectify your first post about Cords and Strong.
MU-OOA---I could care less if Bill Cords moved in with TC. He is done and gone. DS is a major player at MU and I believe he should not be friendly with TC. Quite honestly outside of a checkbook I have always questioned his involvement. I appreciate he wants a hobby, but MU has more at stake. That was my reasoning on the economy. MU CANNOT afford to make financial mistakes at this time.
Record # of applications did not happen by accident. A ton of kids that never would have applied did so because of name recognition. Winning basketball means more than just athletic revenues.
How can you say this is just a hobby for him? Do you know? Your distaste for Strong is your own right but I'm pretty sure he is not doing it just for fun, and if he is, has he made MU better because of it? (Id look back at Chico's comments to see)
Of course MU cannot afford to make financial mistakes at this time...maybe they should not stop being friends with Strong then! But sarcasm aside, MU is being smart about the financial situations, which is why i raised my points.
Cords, Strong, and Crean became friends over the years and collaborated on a successful program. Cords and Strong have chosen to acknowledge that TC made a grab for the golden ring. I have yet to hear any of them throw MU under the bus. Cords and Strong have moved on, forgiven TC for his poor choices he made on the way out the door and chosen to continue their friendship. Perhaps we should follow their example.
MU-OOA--- Distaste for Strong? Hardly, I have a great amount of respect for success. However, I do think other than a checkbook he is not qualified to hire a head coach. DS makes decisions that affect the university and I do not believe that he is qualified.
I think Chico's is the smartest guy on this site. In addition, I love what I perceive to be his views on the program, past, current and future. I do not agree that DS was why TC was hired. He was the reason why he was here for an extra four years. DS has given a great deal to MU and that is awesome. But, he is not qualified to pick a coach.
Quote from: THEGYMBAR on December 02, 2008, 03:24:28 PM
Jmayer---You prepare for bad things before they happen. Never assume that anything is going to happen. They were caught flat footed and shame on them. You prepare for the worst and hope for the best. We are hoping for the best with Buzz without having done any preparation.
What are you talking about? How was MU caught flat-footed? TC left like a dick but that had absolutely nothing, I repeat
ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with the coaching search, which was your original point. If MU wasn't prepared for the chance that TC might leave eventually, especially after his many overtures in the past, then that is the administration's fault, not TC's.
Should MU "have a qualified search committee in place, a short list and long list" going into each off-season because they think the basketball coach may leave. Oh wait, they could do those things after they found out the coach is leaving.
Quote from: THEGYMBAR on December 02, 2008, 04:06:52 PM
I think Chico's is the smartest guy on this site. In addition, I love what I perceive to be his views on the program, past, current and future. I do not agree that DS was why TC was hired. He was the reason why he was here for an extra four years. DS has given a great deal to MU and that is awesome. But, he is not qualified to pick a coach.
Oh God I hope you're joking! ;D
I do agree that DS isn't qualified to pick a coach but as we all know, money plays such a big deal in these things that the guy bankrolling is going to have a significant say. At least a comfort level. One thing he certainly can do is identify leaders. As much as Crean's personality grated people, he's still a leader. We've all had bosses that we think are just complete jags but they get things done, motivate people and ultimately produce. I believe Strong is good at identifying those traits in people.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on December 02, 2008, 11:01:15 PM
We've all had bosses that we think are just complete jags but they get things done, motivate people and ultimately produce. I believe Strong is good at identifying those traits in people.
Does anything you've seen suggest Buzz contains leadership qualities? That's what's so befuddling!