Some of the things that the announcing crew said tonight. I don't know who the analyst was, but he was a former coach and NBA scout apparently. I didn't catch his name.
Marquette fans are clueless for booing Tom Crean in the video before the game.
- MU team more loose under Buzz then Crean
- Crean more structured, Buzz more charasimatic.
- Buzz told one announcer Crean had more of the offensive flair while Buzz concentrates more on defense.
- MU could go far in tournament depending on who they match up with in the NCAAs (i.e. post presence)
- MU best transition team in the country
- Replacing the big three Crean brought in will be very difficult
- Wes Matthews will play at the next level. He's the best overall player on Marquette's team
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on November 22, 2008, 10:39:56 PM
Some of the things that the announcing crew said tonight. I don't know who the analyst was, but he was a former coach and NBA scout apparently. I didn't catch his name.
David Kaplan. he's been lingering in the midwest hoops scene for decades in a variety of capacities
Quote from: NYWarrior on November 22, 2008, 10:40:53 PM
David Kaplan. he's been lingering in the midwest hoops scene for decades in a variety of capacities
That's a blast from the past. Kaplan used to be one of the national recruiting gurus in the early 1990s, along with Bob Gibbons and Clark Francis. He was one of the few that saw all the top recruits back then and his was one of the top 100 lists you wanted to pay attention to because he followed everyone.
He also found a pass James made to Lazar one of the most amazing things ever, even after Lazar missed the bunny layup, for about the next 5 minutes he was calling for a replay of the pass... even while the game was going on.
Buzz = Charismatic
Crean = More structured
I hope this sounds like
Buzz = Al
Layer = Raymonds
Dave Kaplan is also the Cubs pregame radio guy on WGN.
For what its worth he said the Peavy deal is dead but the Cubs are still making a run at Brian Roberts.
Marquette fans are clueless for booing Tom Crean in the video before the game.
- Replacing the big three Crean brought in will be very difficult
1) Marquette fans are booing Crean for leaving after he made it seem like he was saying. Stupid comment, because people will feel angry towards him no matter what.
2) Buzz has already brought in our best recruiting class ever (before they play obviously) so I think the team will be pretty good next season anyway.
Quote from: Jeronne_toMU09 on November 23, 2008, 12:34:22 AM
2) Buzz has already brought in our best recruiting class ever (before they play obviously) so I think the team will be pretty good next season anyway.
I too expect a lot from Buzz's first class. However, remember UConn, a couple of years back? They had on paper one of the best teams in the country and couldn't get to the tourney. I think it is best to moderate your expectations for Buzz next year. It may take a year or two to develop into something special. Also, a lot depends on his ability to coach those kids.
Quote from: Jeronne_toMU09 on November 23, 2008, 12:34:22 AM
1) Marquette fans are booing Crean for leaving after he made it seem like he was saying. Stupid comment, because people will feel angry towards him no matter what.
Moreover, it's only the third game since it happened. Give it some time and it'll probably change.
David Kaplan hosts "Sports Central" on WGN radio in Chicago and also "Chicago Tribune Live" on Comcast Sports Net.
All the preceding posts about him are accurate. He goes way back in the college recruiting ranks and spent time as an assistant at Northern Illinois. Plus he scouted for two NBA franchises in the early 90s and knows the game very well.
Having said that, he is a good friend of Crean, so that explains his comments on the broadcast. FYI, he is best friends with Kevin O'Neill, standing up in all of KO's weddings. He is a good announcer and a great guy. When I covered the Warriors back in the early 90s (man, I'm getting old) he was one of the most accessible college bball experts to this aspiring journalist.
Go Warriors
Quote from: Jeronne_toMU09 on November 23, 2008, 12:34:22 AM
Marquette fans are clueless for booing Tom Crean in the video before the game.
- Replacing the big three Crean brought in will be very difficult
1) Marquette fans are booing Crean for leaving after he made it seem like he was saying. Stupid comment, because people will feel angry towards him no matter what.
2) Buzz has already brought in our best recruiting class ever (before they play obviously) so I think the team will be pretty good next season anyway.
Well then fans should be cheering Crean. He brought Buzz in, he engineered that he became the head coach, he left us with this year's talent. Why are they booing him? It's silly. He left the program in far far far far better shape then when he took over. Would you have booed Al if he ended up out of his MU contract and took the Bucks job?
Al wouldn't have snuck out in the middle of the night without telling his players. For all the good TC did for the program, he left a big skidmark on the floor when he left. That's gonna take a while to get over for some people.
Agreed BrewCity.
I thank Tom Crean for everything he did while he was here. He helped get us in the Big East, helped build the AL, reached a Final Four.
If Crean would have let his players, the athletic department, really anyone at Marquette know instead of Tom Izzo I think people would be fine with it. After all, like it or not "It's Indiana".
Instead he decided to sneak out and not tell anyone. Hell a lot of people on this board probably knew he was gone before the team did by watching Sportscenter. Very d-bagish.
So when that video plays I don't blame people for booing him.
I don't disagree with you guys on how he did it, but the jilted lover phenomena has got to end at some time.
It's still an open sore. It will heal eventually.
Dave Kaplan also is excited to eat at Real Chili which during the broadcast he called the best chili you can have.
He also called AL his favorite announcer and said when he would play teams who would play up tempo he would soak the nets in water so the nets would stiffen and the ball took longer to pass through. Classic.
He will be doing Tuesday's game as well.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on November 23, 2008, 11:37:45 AM
Well then fans should be cheering Crean. He brought Buzz in, he engineered that he became the head coach, he left us with this year's talent. Why are they booing him? It's silly. He left the program in far far far far better shape then when he took over. Would you have booed Al if he ended up out of his MU contract and took the Bucks job?
For my money, as you know, it has nothing to do with how he left. I wouldn't have expected anything different from him. Just wish he had been offered after the FF and left then. Tom always exhibited about as much class as a used car salesman. For the record, I applauded Father Raynor then and history has shown he had the foresight and wisdom to hold Al to the contract he signed.
It's no doubt Crean really turned the program around this past 10 years, but like BrewCity said, the manner in which he left was really pathetic. You'd think he'd have enough courage to tell the players the situation and wish them the best of luck rather than just leave. It's more of the fans hating that aspect of him rather than the hard work he put in here. It would be silly to boo him for being a bad coach or not trying hard enough.
I will probably not boo during the introduction at the UW-Madison game. But if David Kaplan says it's classless to boo, well that's kind of classless. I have two degrees from MU, Kaplan (I assume) has zero. So really he has no authority to tell me how to act or what to say in terms of the MU program, university, etc.. It's classless to bring up the action after it has happened, just seconds after the tip off. There are many other things to talk about at that point in the game, without bringing up our old coach.
I don't mind Kaplan's TV show, but he's one of Crean's lapdogs. He's got to say stuff like that in order to continue to book the Tan One as a guest.
I honestly believe people are more upset at themselves for defending Crean's personality all these years only to have their noses rubbed in it.
Quote from: MUDPT on November 23, 2008, 05:01:59 PM
I will probably not boo during the introduction at the UW-Madison game. But if David Kaplan says it's classless to boo, well that's kind of classless. I have two degrees from MU, Kaplan (I assume) has zero. So really he has no authority to tell me how to act or what to say in terms of the MU program, university, etc.. It's classless to bring up the action after it has happened, just seconds after the tip off. There are many other things to talk about at that point in the game, without bringing up our old coach.
For the record, he didn't say classless. He said MU fans were clueless for doing it. The other announcer agreed.
I just assumed the booing was coming from the 8k plus UWM fans that BB Fran guaranteed would be in the house if we renewed the series.
In all seriousness for the MU fans that don't spend all of their waking hours on the message boards, the departure of Tom Crean probably feels a lot more recent to them than it does to us internet junkies.
Who's more tiring the jilted lovers or the endless defenders?
My issue with Crean leaving was the amount if time left on his contract. If you sign a 10 year deal, you should fulfill more than 2 years. A 10 year deal is a real commitment from MU...they deserved more.
I'm sure he would have received a sweet buyout if Marquette would have fired him.
I guess we should show more gratitude to the man who led us to two NITs and 1 NCAA win in the last 5 seasons.
Quote from: DamonKeysContactLens on November 24, 2008, 08:40:18 AM
I guess we should show more gratitude to the man who led us to two NITs and 1 NCAA win in the last 5 seasons.
+1
In teal.
I boo when they show Hank Raymonds on the scoreboard.
He ruined MU when he took over.
Quote from: 2002mualum on November 24, 2008, 10:02:25 AM
I boo when they show Hank Raymonds on the scoreboard.
He ruined MU when he took over.
Did we all miss the part when Hank Raymonds left Marquette under cover of darkness? Or repeated instances of Hank acting like a pompous ass?
I love people who tell others when it's appropriate to boo. Booing is appropriate when you don't like what you see. David Kaplan rips on Aramis Ramirez almost nightly on his radio show. Ramirez is one of the most productive third basemen in all of baseball. Is he clueless to rip him or is it his perogative?
People don't much like Crean, so they boo. What is the problem with that?
Good point Red, also...
Was Hank afforded:
One of the best practice facilities in the country?
One of the top salaries in the country?
The 5th highest operating budgets in the country?
A cush job for his father in-law?
Private jets for recruiting trips?
Relaxed academic standards compared to previous coaches?
$41,000 for a hyperbaric chamber?
You see when you're given EVERYTHING you want and EVERYTHING you ask for and you produce 2 NITs and 1 NCAA win in your final 5 years, and then you pull a Baltimore Colts on your team and the administration, people may boo a little.
I don't blame Hank for the post-Al demise. MU should have gone after a top tier coach to replace Al. At that time it was arguably as good a job as IU or UNC. I will always have a soft spot in my heart for Hank thanks to the time (1983) when he screamed "we've got you by the balls now!!" at Norm Stewart (Mizzou) after Dwayne Johnson sank a last second jumper from the corner. The entire state of Missouri heard that classic line.
I love Hank Raymonds; but, MU should have gone outside for a higher profile coach to replace Al. In December 1977, I went to the pre-tournament luncheon for the Milwaukee Classic and ended up seated at a table with several assistant coaches from the other schools in the torurney. Each one had deep respect for Hank, but each coach flatly stated that MU should have gone outside to replace Al because Hank was "too nice" (in their words) for the recruiting game and that Hank would not be able to maintain MU's success. History obviously proved them correct. Look at the unsuccessful recruitments over his term of duty ( Scooter McCray, et al ). Hank should have been moved into administration at that point. Then again, it would have been hard for anyone to have come near Al's success level. But, we'll never know as MU never traveled that road.
Al said at one point during his farewell..."My only regret is Hank is not coming with me" They were a great team who probably needed each other as much as anything for their success.
Quote from: RedWebster on November 24, 2008, 11:26:10 AM
Did we all miss the part when Hank Raymonds left Marquette under cover of darkness? Or repeated instances of Hank acting like a pompous ass?
I love people who tell others when it's appropriate to boo. Booing is appropriate when you don't like what you see. David Kaplan rips on Aramis Ramirez almost nightly on his radio show. Ramirez is one of the most productive third basemen in all of baseball. Is he clueless to rip him or is it his perogative?
People don't much like Crean, so they boo. What is the problem with that?
If you want to boo Crean because you just don't like the guy and think he is a douche... well, then there really isn't a debate for that. Go for it, I guess.
However, people seem to want to justify their dislike of Crean by painting a picture like he didn't do a good job.
You can hate the guy (I dislike several things about him). But, don't make it seem like he wasn't good for MU. He wasn't perfect, but he was the 2nd best coach MU has had.
As far as Raymonds goes, I love the guy. He didn't have the best run as a head coach, but overall he did a lot of great things for MU.
I think you all missed the sarcasm font on 2002mualum's post about booing Hank.
Quote from: DamonKeysContactLens on November 24, 2008, 08:40:18 AM
I guess we should show more gratitude to the man who led us to two NITs and 1 NCAA win in the last 5 seasons.
Nah, it just looks silly when MU fans piss on the 2nd most successful coach in school history. And when the announcers are saying that on a telecast it makes MU fans look even better. ::)
People can boo all they want, it's their right. But don't be surprised if announcers, writers, etc point it out.
Pshaw. And don't be surprised if it sparks a thread like this, where we flame the announcers for not knowing WHY fans remain pissed off, and that Crean is reaping what he sowed in April, burning every bridge he found.
Quote from: BrewCity on November 24, 2008, 01:55:21 PM
I think you all missed the sarcasm font on 2002mualum's post about booing Hank.
Yes, I was definitely being sarcastic about Hank. I love the guy.
However, if you really wanted to be a d*ck, you could boo Hank and say it's because he ran a top flight program into the ground.
My guess is that the Crean wounds are just fresher, and the perception of Crean in general is just more negative.
Quote from: mu_hilltopper on November 24, 2008, 02:28:33 PM
Pshaw. And don't be surprised if it sparks a thread like this, where we flame the announcers for not knowing WHY fans remain pissed off, and that Crean is reaping what he sowed in April, burning every bridge he found.
I'm just ticked he left us with such a crappy team to watch this year. Talk about really sticking it to us. And then campaigning to get Buzz as the head coach....he was clearly out to destroy the program when he left. ;)
I guess that's my point. Outsiders are going to come in and say "so what that he left. He left you guys with a top 15 team, a great recruiter, the Big East, a new practice gym and you guys are booing him."
Like it or not, that's what outsiders will say, especially those that thought he should have or could have left MU many years earlier.
It just makes MU fans look petty to the outside world. Fair or otherwise, that's the reality of it.
Why do we care what the "outside world" thinks of Marquette fans? As long as Crean knows he's being booed and as long as people get some anger off their chests...isn't that all that matters?
Do recruits give a hoot that the former coach is booed? Or do they pay more attention to the former players who are cheered on the scoreboard and in the stands?
Philadelphia fans booed Santa Claus and yet people still visit the City of Brotherly Love.
"what if you get one class A and one class B?"
My understanding is that an A counts as a B, but a B doesn't count as an A. So in this scenario the coach would have one A and, what counts as, two B's.
Or put another way, it takes two A's to get ejected, but three of any kind will do the trick. So an A and two B's, while a decent GPA, will get you shown the door.
Quote from: RedWebster on November 24, 2008, 03:37:26 PM
Why do we care what the "outside world" thinks of Marquette fans? As long as Crean knows he's being booed and as long as people get some anger off their chests...isn't that all that matters?
Do recruits give a hoot that the former coach is booed? Or do they pay more attention to the former players who are cheered on the scoreboard and in the stands?
Philadelphia fans booed Santa Claus and yet people still visit the City of Brotherly Love.
If we don't care what the outside world thinks, why would we care if Crean knows about the booing?
Are we trying to hurt his feelings? Awwwww. I'm sure he will be crushed.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on November 24, 2008, 03:11:56 PM
Like it or not, that's what outsiders will say, especially those that thought he should have or could have left MU many years earlier.
It just makes MU fans look petty to the outside world. Fair or otherwise, that's the reality of it.
Or, perhaps that means the announcers should avail themselves of finding out why people are so unhappy with Crean, since there have been other coaches who've left their programs on GOOD terms.
Imagine that .. announcers/reporters explaining what's going on via video. "Well, the MU fans are booing right now, and let's do our jobs and explain why."
1) Marquette fans are booing Crean for leaving after he made it seem like he was saying. Stupid comment, because people will feel angry towards him no matter what.
People will boo him for whatever reasons for a long time. He might deserve it but who cares. Its over and I would rather use my voice and energy to cheer on this team and not worry about the past. Alot of people bought into his PR machine (and they are in Indiana as well) The real judgement should come in a few years when Buzz has all of his own guys and Crean has all of his as well. Then we will see if we are still near the top of the BE. I think Crean will have a tough time beating Izzo and Ryan year after year as I would consider them much better coaches (after seeing what they both did to this program in the past) Ever since the first round embarasment against Michigan State 2 years ago I completely lost my faith in Crean regardless of last years second round loss or all of the memories with the final four and the CUSA title.
Regardless of how he left - you guys would find a reason to b*tch about Tan Tommy. Even if he did tell his players before he left, there would be another reason y'all would come up with.
Get over it already!!