MUScoop

Was reading that Majerus expects the Big East to split up. He is hoping to position SLU to join a new conference made up of some of the western most BE schools and some A-10 schools.

Marq
ND
Depaul
Dayton
SLU
Xavier
?????

I chose big east, but if there was going to be a catholic conference i would prefer to be in one with some of the east catholic schools like gtown and nova as opposed to schools like SLU. 

Quote from: MUunderpants on November 03, 2008, 05:01:36 PM
I chose big east, but if there was going to be a catholic conference i would prefer to be in one with some of the east catholic schools like gtown and nova as opposed to schools like SLU. 

Agreed. Stay in the BE.  This vote shouldn't even be close.

Is this a joke? I love Rick, but just because he is stuck at SLU doesn't mean we have to suffer. If that happened it would be a sad, sad day. MU must fight to stay in the BE at all cost or we can move the men's games to The AL.

Quote from: dennycrane on November 03, 2008, 04:53:24 PM
Was reading that Majerus expects the Big East to split up. He is hoping to position SLU to join a new conference made up of some of the western most BE schools and some A-10 schools.

Marq
ND
Depaul
Dayton
SLU
Xavier
?????

Well, certainly The Rick wouldn't have any ulterior motive in advancing the notion of a Big East breakup, would he?  ::)

It's tough to vote for anything but the BE right now, as we're competitive.   If that were to change, and we were fighting in the bottom of the BE year after year ...

Are you looking to take 2 steps back? It took umteen years to get committed enough to get our heines into an elite conference. Now, just stay put and pee with the big boys.
As for Ricky, have another pizza and a Bud pitcher and enjoy your wannabe A-10 school.

Rick is trying to get SLU upgraded.

ND will absolutely NOT join such a conference.

If Rick was still at Ball U he would want us to join the Great 4 State.  When St. Louis and Indy can match the ESPN TV dollars that NY, DC, and Philly (Non DIV I fb schools) do, please come see us.  

Stay in the Big East. Always and forever. If nothing else, maybe the ACC or SEC.

The BEast is where we belong.   HOWEVER, hypothetically, if the football schools in the BEast decide to boot the basketball only schools, I would take the formation of the Catholic Schools basketball league, understanding it would take years to get an automatic bid.    MU, G'town, SJU, SHU, Xavier, Dayton, Depaul, ND, SLU would be a nice starting point.

Quote from: tower912 on November 03, 2008, 08:40:36 PM
The BEast is where we belong.   HOWEVER, hypothetically, if the football schools in the BEast decide to boot the basketball only schools, I would take the formation of the Catholic Schools basketball league, understanding it would take years to get an automatic bid.    MU, G'town, SJU, SHU, Xavier, Dayton, Depaul, ND, SLU would be a nice starting point.

+1.

One day the BE will fall. It worries me about the fallout. A catholic conference would be a cool idea, but the automatic bid will scare a lot of schools away I think., I don't think anyone will be ready to go against the NCAA on that issue.

However, it would leave us and the others without a conference to go to. I'd imagine ND would look for a larger conference to join with all their sports.

I guess I don't understand why so many feel the BE will eventually collapse. I also don't believe ND football will ever be affiliated. If BE basketball can remain anywhere near as competitive as it currently is, there is no reason (that I can see) the conference should fail. Granted, I understand nothing as it relates to running a successful college athletics conference.

I would rather be in the Big Ten than in that conference.  Or even the old CUSA.  It's a no brainer to want to be in the best conference in the country over an average mid-major.  Some people would actually prefer a half-full BC, never being on TV, not getting as good of recruits, and losing national exposure, prestige, and a good chunk of change?  And for what, to save on the fuel that's used traveling to Madison Square Garden for a huge conference tournament?

Just thinking of changing conferences makes me shudder.

My freshman year it was the Great Midwest.
My junior year it was the Conference USA.
Three years ago it was the Big East.

Ugh.

Quote from: Pakuni on November 03, 2008, 05:51:21 PM
Well, certainly The Rick wouldn't have any ulterior motive in advancing the notion of a Big East breakup, would he?  ::)

I assume Majerus knows more than anyone on this board. Majerus has no control over the BE. What is his ulterior motive?

If the Big East splits, it will be because of football. We will not have a choice in the matter. I think if you have five teams from the old conference you do not have to wait for an automatic bid. the automatic bid only matters, if you do not have a good enough team to get an at large bid. Notre Dame is the only team that could join the Big Ten. Without football MU will always be a mid-major team.

Quote from: tower912 on November 03, 2008, 08:40:36 PM
The BEast is where we belong.   HOWEVER, hypothetically, if the football schools in the BEast decide to boot the basketball only schools, I would take the formation of the Catholic Schools basketball league, understanding it would take years to get an automatic bid.    MU, G'town, SJU, SHU, Xavier, Dayton, Depaul, ND, SLU would be a nice starting point.

Other BE non football schools (as you point out ) would be possible additions to a new league. That would keep TV markets in NY, Chi and Wash. It would add a major market in St. Louis. A couple of smaller markets in Ohio.

The BE has some problems. It is too large. There is no true conference champion.

Quote from: dennycrane on November 04, 2008, 07:21:34 AM
I assume Majerus knows more than anyone on this board. Majerus has no control over the BE. What is his ulterior motive?

A conference with Notre Dame, Marquette and DePaul would be far more beneficial to St. Louis (and thereby Rick) than one with Duquesne, Richmond and St. Bonaventure, I would think.

Quote from: IAmMarquette on November 03, 2008, 10:08:38 PM
I guess I don't understand why so many feel the BE will eventually collapse. I also don't believe ND football will ever be affiliated. If BE basketball can remain anywhere near as competitive as it currently is, there is no reason (that I can see) the conference should fail. Granted, I understand nothing as it relates to running a successful college athletics conference.

The driving force is football.  The BE is a small, unbalanced football conference with each team getting only seven conference games a year, which automatically puts half of the conference at a disadvantage.  (Less conference home games.)  Furthermore, programs are having a tough time finding five non-conference opponents per year.  There has been some open lobbying among the football coaches to add a ninth member - say East Carolina or Memphis - to at least even up the home v. away advantage.

The conference has explored adding Army and Navy as somewhat associate members - both would play four BE opponents and these games would count in the conference standings.  I am not sure if they ever came to agreement on that.  But even if they did, I doubt it is sustainable.

But football makes much more money for the conference than basketball does.  If the football schools could significantly increase their revenue by adding four members and creating a championship game, they would do it in a second.  The problem is that the revenue increase that would bring wouldn't make up for dividing the football pie up twelve ways instead of eight.

Quote from: Pakuni on November 04, 2008, 08:09:58 AM
A conference with Notre Dame, Marquette and DePaul would be far more beneficial to St. Louis (and thereby Rick) than one with Duquesne, Richmond and St. Bonaventure, I would think.

I am sure it is. He has no control over what the BE does. I don't see his motive in expressing his opinion that the BE will eventually break up.

As far as the automatic bid is concerned, didn't the Mountain West get an automatic bid right away when it split from the WAC?

Personally, I wouldn't mind seeing Marquette in a conference with the non-football BE schools and a couple of the better programs from the A-10.  If we had a conference of G'town, Nova, Marq, SHU, SJU, DePaul, ND, Providence, St. Joes, Xavier, Dayton and SLU (I'm including them since I live in St. Louis and want to get a Marquette game back here every year), that would be a pretty solid conference, one that would average about 4-6 bids a year. 

Now, I'm not saying that I want out of the Big East, but if the conference were to force a split over football, a conference like this wouldn't be the end of the world. 

If -- and it's a huge if -- the Big East were to break up as Majerus believes, it will be divided by football, leaving Marquette in a league with ...

Villanova, Georgetown, Notre Dame, Seton Hall, Providence, St. John's and De Paul. That's a good eight-team league. Add Xavier and Dayton to make it 10 or even St. Louis and perhaps St. Joseph for 12. That's a strong basketball conference.

Could happen, but probably not for a while if at all.

Quote from: Kramerica on November 04, 2008, 09:39:47 AM
As far as the automatic bid is concerned, didn't the Mountain West get an automatic bid right away when it split from the WAC?

Yes, and that is what created the dreaded "play-in game."  The Mountain West got an automatic bid, which forced two low level conference champions to play in a crappy game in Dayton because God forbid the team that finished 7th in the SEC gets booted from their rightful place in the tournament.

I agree, this is a stupid poll the answer is obvious. However, when (not if) the Big East Football Schools Leave, IT is Likely that you wil see a Catholic Basketball Conference in the Vein of the A-10.
Remaining
Georgetown
Marquette
Villanova
DePaul
Providence
Seton Hall
St John's
Added
Xavier (OH)
St. Joseph's
St. Louis
Creighton
Dayton

Quote from: Pastor of Muppets on November 04, 2008, 09:50:10 AM

Yes, and that is what created the dreaded "play-in game."  The Mountain West got an automatic bid, which forced two low level conference champions to play in a crappy game in Dayton because God forbid the team that finished 7th in the SEC gets booted from their rightful place in the tournament.

Part of the issue with the Mountain West scenario is that under the current NCAA rules there are a set number of at large bids guaranteed, I believe its 32.  By adding the Mountain West they either had to rewrite the rules to lower the at large bids, likely to be opposed by most major conferences, or stick it to the little guys. 

Quote from: dennycrane on November 04, 2008, 09:15:42 AM
I am sure it is. He has no control over what the BE does. I don't see his motive in expressing his opinion that the BE will eventually break up.

I'm not suggesting he has any control over what the Big East does.
I am suggesting that Rick would be hopeful - and reasonably so - for a Big East breakup, and if he can put that bug in someone's ear, why not? Will the Big East as we know it cease to exist because of what Rick Majerus thinks/wants? Obviously not. But to the extent that he has a voice in the college basketball community/media, I don't think he's unaware that his words would be heard. Clearly you believe they must have some merit, given that you've vouched for his likely knowledge of the situation.
I'm not saying Rick is a bad guy for making these comments. But I'm not naive to think he doesn't recognize the self-serving nature of them, either.

Also remember that Georgetown and Villanova have started up football programs.  Both are playing this season at the D1-AA (or whatever it called) level.

Georgetown in the Patriot against the likes of Colgate and Holy Cross.  Villanova is in the Colonial with James Madison, Delaware, Rhode Island..

By the time this would happen Rick might have been rumored or accepted four jobs. MU must not even consider sucjh an idiotic move.

St. Johns (NYC)
Villanova (Philly)
St. Joes (Philly)
DePaul (Chicago)
Georgetown (Washington DC)
Marquette (Milwaukee/Good basketball)
Xavier (Cinci/Good basketball)
SLU (StL)

One or two of Creighton, Providence, Dayton, and Seton Hall based on a formula of market size and state of the basketball programs.

If one, play a 16 game home-and-home schedule.  If two, play a 18 game home-and-home schedule.

Adding one allows flexibility to add a 10th team in the future without too much consideration of scheduling.

A logical four to five teams make the tournament from the conference every year, so the conference is seen as pretty good.  GTown, Nova, MU, and Xavier are perennial contenders for a tourney spot, and Creighton or Dayton could compete to be the fifth tourney team.

It's Comcastic.

I can not vouch for Majerus. He would have more information than I would. Majerus is not the first to talk about the BE eventually breaking up.

I was more interested in how others would feel about the possible conference Majerus was suggesting than what motives Rick had in talking about it.

A few points:

* Auto bids are not an issue. A "split", if it occurs, would actually involve the football schools leaving the Big East. The remaining schools would retain the BE name, and the auto bid. By NCAA rule the football schools, having competed together in the Big East for 5 years, would be entitled to an auto bid for their new conference as well.

* Nova has not "started up" football, it first fielded a team in 1895, and played in Div I until 1980 when the program was briefly discontinued for reasons too extensive to recount here, then restarted in 1985 as Div IAA. Nova making the move back to DI is an option to resolve the football/non-football rift in the Big East, as the football schools are primarily looking for a 9th member and a balanced schedule. Whether to go Div I or not is an issue that has been debated to death among Nova fans for years, and there are many obstacles that would have to be overcome. I don't believe it would even be seriously considered unless the administration's hand is forced by a possible split BE to protect our hoops program. Which brings me to my next point...

* Most Villanova fans want absolutely no part of any "Catholic League". Georgetown fans from my understanding feel the same way. History and rivalries aside, the Big East affords our programs vast advantages in exposure and recruiting, and fills our athletic department's coffers. Like Marquette, Villanova was an independent for many years, and was among the most consistently successful programs in college hoops over that time. But the landscape of college athletics has changed, and we Nova fans believe it would be difficult to near-impossible today to sustain our current success at the mid-major level.

* Personally, I don't think a straight football/non-football split would be the first option anyway. The scenario I worry about is the football schools cherry-picking four basketball schools (Georgetown, Nova, St Johns, ??) and making them an offer they probably couldn't refuse: vote out the remaining four (Seton Hall, Providence, ??, ??) and add another football school. For me as a long-time Nova & Big East fan, that would be a brutal decision for my school to have to make. I feel much more allegiance to Providence and Seton Hall than I do to Rutgers and Cincinnati.

Lastly, I don't think I've posted here before so I'll add that I have a great deal of respect for the MU hoops program and its history, and look forward to many years of great competition.

Why thank you for your post Villacats.  Good points all around.

One that you touched on that hadn't really been addressed in the thread is that any Catholic League would be instantly viewed as a mid-major and would have to deal with all of the issues that come along with that.

Quote from: Villacats on November 04, 2008, 02:41:32 PM
* Most Villanova fans want absolutely no part of any "Catholic League". Georgetown fans from my understanding feel the same way. History and rivalries aside, the Big East affords our programs vast advantages in exposure and recruiting, and fills our athletic department's coffers.

Glad you popped in.  I'm sure many Marquette fans agree about the Catholic League (in fact, I'm surprised to see our poll shows 14% support). 

Quote from: rocky_warrior on November 04, 2008, 05:19:30 PM
Glad you popped in.  I'm sure many Marquette fans agree about the Catholic League (in fact, I'm surprised to see our poll shows 14% support). 

Same here, but peraps I shouldn't be surprised. After all, there was a small faction that believed MU should have rejected the invitation to the Big East and stayed in C-USA. The thinking was somewhere along the lines of "It's better to dominate C-USA and make the tournament every year than risk not making the tournament because of the tough Big East schedule."
I suspect some of those same people may be the ones in favor of a Catholic Conference.

I believe 7 Big East teams are currently ranked in the Top 25.  Nearly half the league.  By far the greatest basketball conference.  While a Catholic League would be awesome it would never produce the quality conference we have now.

Quote from: Pakuni on November 04, 2008, 05:34:58 PM
Same here, but peraps I shouldn't be surprised. After all, there was a small faction that believed MU should have rejected the invitation to the Big East and stayed in C-USA. The thinking was somewhere along the lines of "It's better to dominate C-USA and make the tournament every year than risk not making the tournament because of the tough Big East schedule."
I suspect some of those same people may be the ones in favor of a Catholic Conference.

And those people are flat wrong. Especially since we weren't exactly dominant in CUSA. CUSA might get 4 bids. Maybe. The BE will get 7 every year.

Everyone is missing the biggest point of all. History has a way of repeating itself. You can help thank ACC expansion for MU being in the Big East. If you want the BE to stay the way it currently is, you better root like hell for a zero loss Penn State team to make the BCS title game. If they don't, all hell is going to break loose, guaranteed.

The Big 11 is going to expand to 12 teams. It's not a matter of if, but when. It will be greatly accelerated if a zero loss Penn St. gets shut out of the BCS. The Big 11 has always had it's sights set on Notre Dame, and to a lesser degree Mizzou and Syracuse. Most recently it was looking hard at Rutgers (which has shot itself in the foot with a lousy year). It'll be 10 years since next year since ND rejected the Big 11, they might come knocking at the door again soon.

If ND, Cuse, or Rutgers leaves, you better start warming up to playing Xavier and SLU on a regular basis.

Quote from: MUDish on November 04, 2008, 08:10:28 PM
It'll be 10 years since next year since ND rejected the Big 11, they might come knocking at the door again soon.

If ND, Cuse, or Rutgers leaves, you better start warming up to playing Xavier and SLU on a regular basis.

Notre Dame just re-upped its football contract with NBC through the 2015 season. So, unless they want to walk away from a guaranteed $9 million a year for the next seven years, they're going nowhere.

Notre Dame has no real incentive to join the Big 10. The football program is raking in huge amounts of money - $101 million in annual revenues - without an affiliation and the loss of control that comes with it. Their other programs are doing fine in the Big East and would have nothing to gain from a move. If anything those sports are better off in the Big East. Why change that? Notre Dame has far more to lose - financially and in terms of control - by joining the Big 10 than they would have to gain.

Very impressive!

105 voters!

MUScoop is growing by leaps and bounds!

Quote from: dennycrane on November 03, 2008, 04:53:24 PM
Was reading that Majerus expects the Big East to split up. He is hoping to position SLU to join a new conference made up of some of the western most BE schools and some A-10 schools.

Marq
ND
Depaul
Dayton
SLU
Xavier
?????

Why wouldn't such a league be the Catholic schools in the Big East that don't have D-IA football and all Notre Dame sports but football? A more attractive and competitive league would include:

Marquette
DePaul
Notre Dame
Providence
Georgetown
Villanova
St. John's
Seton Hall

Then there might be an addition of Xavier and/or Dayton, but SLU is too far away. Marquette and DePaul are already pushing the limits of what is the "East" in Big East.

This is most likely the most shortsighted, dumb, mid-major thinking thread i have ever viewed and reading and responding to it have only made me dumber!! get a clue people!!

Also, anyone that thinks ND is attracted to the big ten is even dumber!!!  ND most likely has more alumni in Philadelpia, not to mention NYC, DC, etc.  than thet have in Bllominton, Champiagn, Estlansing and the big Ten areas combined.  Absolutely would be a retarded move....removed tens of millions of fottball revenue by joining the b10 and then remove the olympic sports from the cities the vast majority of your alumni live in.  so stupid.  will not happen any time soon most likely ever.  and i dont even like ND nor have i watched one of there footbal games in at least 20 years.  yet i know how stupid that idea is.   

Quote from: Pakuni on November 04, 2008, 08:31:47 PM
Notre Dame just re-upped its football contract with NBC through the 2015 season. So, unless they want to walk away from a guaranteed $9 million a year for the next seven years, they're going nowhere.

Notre Dame has no real incentive to join the Big 10. The football program is raking in huge amounts of money - $101 million in annual revenues - without an affiliation and the loss of control that comes with it. Their other programs are doing fine in the Big East and would have nothing to gain from a move. If anything those sports are better off in the Big East. Why change that? Notre Dame has far more to lose - financially and in terms of control - by joining the Big 10 than they would have to gain.

I understand all your points, and I never said they should join based on what they would lose/gain. All I'm saying is the Big 11 is going to come knocking on their door again. Whether ND listens (in particular the York family), is up to them.

Mr. Hayward, nobody WANTS to leave the BEast.   However, if in 5 years, the football schools boot the b-ball schools, what would you have MU do?

Quote from: MUDish on November 05, 2008, 11:29:11 AM
I understand all your points, and I never said they should join based on what they would lose/gain. All I'm saying is the Big 11 is going to come knocking on their door again. Whether ND listens (in particular the York family), is up to them.

After being rejected once, the Big Ten will most definately not ask ND again.  However if ND wants in, they will let them in.

Right now the numbers do not support the Big Ten adding another team.  (ie, will the increased revenue being divided 12 ways exceed the current revenue divided 11.)  Furthermore I am not convinced that the Big Ten *wants* a championship game a la the SEC and the Big 12.  I think they like ending their season with UM v. tOSU.

But that being said, if they do look to add a team, it won't be a no-marquis value school like Rutgers, Syracuse or Missouri.  It will be a ND...or Nebraska...  Something big and bold like Penn State was.

Mr. Hayward, nobody WANTS to leave the BEast.   However, if in 5 years, the football schools boot the b-ball schools, what would you have MU do?

well the football schools cannot "boot" the BBall schools...they can only choose to leave the BE.  whole different set of circumstances.


Missouri will be the next B10 school if they add one. 

I've lived in St. Louis for all my life (except for the 4 years I went to Marquette) and I've never heard anything about Mizzou moving to the Big 10.  I'm pretty sure that Mizzou has no desire to move to the Big 10. 

Quote from: Pastor of Muppets on November 05, 2008, 11:50:25 AM

After being rejected once, the Big Ten will most definately not ask ND again.  However if ND wants in, they will let them in.

Right now the numbers do not support the Big Ten adding another team.  (ie, will the increased revenue being divided 12 ways exceed the current revenue divided 11.)  Furthermore I am not convinced that the Big Ten *wants* a championship game a la the SEC and the Big 12.  I think they like ending their season with UM v. tOSU.

But that being said, if they do look to add a team, it won't be a no-marquis value school like Rutgers, Syracuse or Missouri.  It will be a ND...or Nebraska...  Something big and bold like Penn State was.

Not sure about your points here. The wheel's are already in motion in the Big 10 offices to consider adding a 12th team and a conference championship game. The Big 10 hung the initial nugget out there by suggesting moving back the conference regular season schedule past Thanksgiving weekend. If a zero loss Penn State team gets left out of the BCS title game, things will only escalate from there.

Rutgers and Syracuse have a TON of value, much more than you think. Syracuse resonates extremely well with ESPN/ABC and always will (look at where almost half of ESPN employees graduate from and you'll understand). If Rutgers could have strung together another good quality football season, the Big 10 and ACC would be fighting over them. Look at a map and see where Rutgers is located. You'll see why they have huge value.