Joey made it happen?

[PGsHeroes32]

There is 7 pages of this thread so I am sure it has been mentioned.

But the coach referenced in the story saying he woulda handled the situation the exact same was Fran.

[brewcity77]

This. 

First, it was a totally illegal move.  Second, Daniel was the one who initially moved in on Johnny's girl, then a couple weeks later he's in Okinawa mackin on the townies.  Third, he basically sends Johnny's life into a downward spiral while he goes on to raise two of his own spoiled brats. 

Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if Daniel somehow was indirectly responsible for Johnny's mom's death.

All true. Except the part about Johnny's mom, which isn't provably true, but probably is.

Further, there was the unprovoked drenching of Johnny at the Halloween party that LaRusso used to lure Johnny away from the school so Daniel's adult male friend could beat up on Johnny and his adolescent companions. LaRusso was a bully that used Miyagi as his goon.

[warriorchick]

This. 

First, it was a totally illegal move. Second, Daniel was the one who initially moved in on Johnny's girl, then a couple weeks later he's in Okinawa mackin on the townies.  Third, he basically sends Johnny's life into a downward spiral while he goes on to raise two of his own spoiled brats. 

Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if Daniel somehow was indirectly responsible for Johnny's mom's death.

Wrong.  Ali broke up with Johnny before Daniel even met her.

[Herman Cain]

An Alternative View :
1. Parents at times live vicariously through their kids. In the world of college sports it happens frequently and gets more intense the further up the food chain your kid is. Especially when there is national TV involved.I know from experience, and had to really focus on letting it be the kids experience and not mine.
2. Parents tend to overrate their kids strengths and underrate their kids weakness.
3. Parents often do not understand the role that different players play on a team. They still believe Billy of Suzy should play the same role they do in high school. Further to point 2 They do not understand that racking up impressive statistics needs to be taken in context .
4. Parents sometimes do not look kindly  on players that they perceive to be ball hogs, no matter how efficient, or how structured the plays are. Unless of course it is their Billy or Suzy in the focal point.
5. Parents are often taken aback when their young superstars get tough internal reviews from their coaches and frequently put fuel on the fire in these situations. Part of the reason why is the tough review hurts the parents feelings  because of point 1 above.
6 . Parents are often in support of when a kid brings up transferring the first time they face adversity.
7. Parents enjoy the positive feedback in the transfer process, because they are now being romanced again by the college coaches.
8. Parents love it even more when the college coaches doing the romancing are perceived to have higher status than their current coach. They love to tell their friends that their kids are  being courted by Izzo,  Roy and Coach K etc.

Coaches get paid the big bucks to navigate many different issues. Parent management is something not often seen in the press but it is a very big part of the equation for success.

[MU82]

An Alternative View :
1. Parents at times live vicariously through their kids. In the world of college sports it happens frequently and gets more intense the further up the food chain your kid is. Especially when there is national TV involved.I know from experience, and had to really focus on letting it be the kids experience and not mine.
2. Parents tend to overrate their kids strengths and underrate their kids weakness.
3. Parents often do not understand the role that different players play on a team. They still believe Billy of Suzy should play the same role they do in high school. Further to point 2 They do not understand that racking up impressive statistics needs to be taken in context .
4. Parents sometimes do not look kindly  on players that they perceive to be ball hogs, no matter how efficient, or how structured the plays are. Unless of court it is their Billy or Suzy in the focal point.
5. Parents are often taken aback when their young superstars get tough internal reviews from their coaches and frequently put fuel on the fire in these situations. Part of the reason why is the tough review hurts the parents because of point 1 above.
6 . Parents are often in support of when a kid brings up transferring the first time they face adversity.
7. Parents enjoy the positive feedback in the transfer process, because they are now being romanced again by the college coaches.
8. Parents love it even more when the college coaches doing the romancing are perceived to have higher status than their current coach. They love to tell their friends that their kids are  being courted by Izzo,  Roy and Coach K etc.

Coaches get paid the big bucks to navigate many different issues. Parent management is something not often seen in the press but it is a very big part of the equation for success.

I agree with this, 9-9-9.

Very possible Wojo did a poor job managing the Hauser parents' expectations, etc.

Also very possible that the Hauser parents coddled their youngest son and were taken aback by even the slightest criticism of their darling, who had always been Mr. Wonderful.

[Cheeks]

I thought Wojo’s answers today on the Hauser was interesting.  Wished them well, success, etc.  said you will have to ask the Hauser why they left....he wasn’t going to be the one to say it.

[GB Warrior]

I thought Wojo’s answers today on the Hauser was interesting.  Wished them well, success, etc.  said you will have to ask the Hauser why they left....he wasn’t going to be the one to say it.

And I think that should be somewhat telling.

[Lennys Tap]

Also very possible that the Hauser parents coddled their youngest son and were taken aback by even the slightest criticism of their darling, who had always been Mr. Wonderful.

Also very possible the Hauser parents wanted the boys to stay at MU but left the decision (as they should have) up to their sons. That's the story I've been told by several people. But why even consider that possibility - despising them and slandering them without evidence is so much more productive and way more fun.

[MU82]

Also very possible the Hauser parents wanted the boys to stay at MU but left the decision (as they should have) up to their sons. That's the story I've been told by several people. But why even consider that possibility - despising them and slandering them without evidence is so much more productive and way more fun.

You and I have heard different versions, and that's OK.

And as "slander" goes, mine was about the tamest slander one can find on the interwebs.

Maybe I'm wrong -- and if so, I know you'll tell me Lenny -- but I think the main difference between you and me on this subject is that you are biased toward the Hausers while I am objective. I have absolutely no problem holding both Wojo and the Hausers accountable here. It's not "wrong" for you to be biased toward the Hausers (and against Wojo); it just is.

[Lennys Tap]

You and I have heard different versions, and that's OK.

And as "slander" goes, mine was about the tamest slander one can find on the interwebs.

Maybe I'm wrong -- and if so, I know you'll tell me Lenny -- but I think the main difference between you and me on this subject is that you are biased toward the Hausers while I am objective. I have absolutely no problem holding both Wojo and the Hausers accountable here. It's not "wrong" for you to be biased toward the Hausers (and against Wojo); it just is.

You think the kids are selfish, the kids are spoiled, the parents are awful but Wojo assumes some responsibility because he's in charge is unbiased and objective?

Wait, I just remembered you don't use teal. Good one, Mike. You had me going...well done.

[dgies9156]

You think the kids are selfish, the kids are spoiled, the parents are awful but Wojo assumes some responsibility because he's in charge is unbiased and objective?

Wait, I just remembered you don't use teal. Good one, Mike. You had me going...well done.

Brother Lenny, Brother MU is exercising his right toward fair comment and criticism. Same as I did. Maybe we're harsh, but when you're a public persona you better get used to it. It isn't slander -- it's criticism.

Wojo ultimately is the gatekeeper and the boss, so he's the responsible party. The buck for the basketball team stops with the head coach, period.

To suggest there is not contributory negligence on the part of the Brothers Hauser is not realistic. Of course, there was. Brother MU is merely pointing that out.

[MU82]

You think the kids are selfish, the kids are spoiled, the parents are awful but Wojo assumes some responsibility because he's in charge is unbiased and objective?

Please find one example of me saying the Hauser parents are "awful." Very chicos-ish of you to claim I said something I didn't (though I do apologize for that ultimate insult).

And yes, I am more objective than you on this subject, even if you don't want to admit it. You seem to think the Hausers deserve 0% of the blame, or darn close to it. I don't know how that view can be deemed objective. I don't like or dislike the Hausers, and I don't like or dislike Wojo; I don't know any of them well enough to have formed an opinion like that. You like the Hausers and consider them blameless. That's OK. It's just neither objective nor realistic in my opinion ... and that's all any of this is from either of us -- opinion.

(As a fan, I now of course "hate" Sam and Joey because they are the "enemy." And I "love" Markus because he's a Warrior. That's very different than actual hate or like or love.)

I am not going to have a chicos/Lenny back and forth with you on this; I respect you too much for that. I've said my piece. Have a nice day.

[Cheeks]

Please find one example of me saying the Hauser parents are "awful." Very chicos-ish of you to claim I said something I didn't (though I do apologize for that ultimate insult).

And yes, I am more objective than you on this subject, even if you don't want to admit it. You seem to think the Hausers deserve 0% of the blame, or darn close to it. I don't know how that view can be deemed objective. I don't like or dislike the Hausers, and I don't like or dislike Wojo; I don't know any of them well enough to have formed an opinion like that. You like the Hausers and consider them blameless. That's OK. It's just neither objective nor realistic in my opinion ... and that's all any of this is from either of us -- opinion.

(As a fan, I now of course "hate" Sam and Joey because they are the "enemy." And I "love" Markus because he's a Warrior. That's very different than actual hate or like or love.)

I am not going to have a chicos/Lenny back and forth with you on this; I respect you too much for that. I've said my piece. Have a nice day.

Yes, you have never accused anyone of saying something here they haven’t actually said.  The Hitler quote is a nice touch.....but sure that isn’t political.   

[MU82]

Yes, you have never accused anyone of saying something here they haven’t actually said.  The Hitler quote is a nice touch.....but sure that isn’t political.   

Not deserving of rebuttal.

[Benny B]

Wrong.  Ali broke up with Johnny before Daniel even met her.

Not exactly.  They were trying to reconcile.  Johnny was trying to better himself as a person, but he was under the pressure of a dick sensei and an arsehole step-father.  When Daniel showed up, it was like drinking a few beers in front of a recovering alcoholic on step three.

Yet despite all this, Johnny was still the better man.  Even after being defeated on an illegal move, did Johnny protest?  Did he jump up and down and scream for the hills?  No... not only did he congratulate Daniel, but he was the one who handed him the trophy.

[jesmu84]

An Alternative View :
1. Parents at times live vicariously through their kids. In the world of college sports it happens frequently and gets more intense the further up the food chain your kid is. Especially when there is national TV involved.I know from experience, and had to really focus on letting it be the kids experience and not mine.
2. Parents tend to overrate their kids strengths and underrate their kids weakness.
3. Parents often do not understand the role that different players play on a team. They still believe Billy of Suzy should play the same role they do in high school. Further to point 2 They do not understand that racking up impressive statistics needs to be taken in context .
4. Parents sometimes do not look kindly  on players that they perceive to be ball hogs, no matter how efficient, or how structured the plays are. Unless of course it is their Billy or Suzy in the focal point.
5. Parents are often taken aback when their young superstars get tough internal reviews from their coaches and frequently put fuel on the fire in these situations. Part of the reason why is the tough review hurts the parents feelings  because of point 1 above.
6 . Parents are often in support of when a kid brings up transferring the first time they face adversity.
7. Parents enjoy the positive feedback in the transfer process, because they are now being romanced again by the college coaches.
8. Parents love it even more when the college coaches doing the romancing are perceived to have higher status than their current coach. They love to tell their friends that their kids are  being courted by Izzo,  Roy and Coach K etc.

Coaches get paid the big bucks to navigate many different issues. Parent management is something not often seen in the press but it is a very big part of the equation for success.

The meat summit crew ain't gonna be happy you cast blame on Mom and Dad H

[brewcity77]

(As a fan, I now of course "hate" Sam and Joey because they are the "enemy." And I "love" Markus because he's a Warrior. That's very different than actual hate or like or love.)

I get that you think they might go to UW, but I'll admit even the hyperbole "hate" feels like a bit much being as repeated as it has been. I am confident all sides bear some of the blame, but these are still at this moment Marquette students who could go in multiple directions. Personally, I think it's better to let them make that decision before we direct any vitriolic feelings in their direction.

[Cheeks]

Not deserving of rebuttal.

Because you cannot rebut it.  He was a political leader and you are trying to make an absurd connection / correlation.  I was recently warned, I’m not sure how your signature doesn’t violate the standard.

And yes, you have accused people of saying things they didn’t say.

Two for two....you can’t rebut it not should you try.

[Earl Tatum]

Had high regard for Joey--Now I know he's a PUNK

[Lennys Tap]

Brother Lenny:

I often agree with you as well. And I appreciate your comments, even when we don't agree. Maybe I should know better, but to clarify, I've said this from the beginning:

1) Like Brother MU82, I agree that this is a massive management failure. Brother MU82 is right -- Wojo is CEO. He either should never have recruited Joey Hauser or should have moved to stop the problem ASAP. It is my opinion that this had a debilitating effect on us late in the season (along with exhaustion, but that is another story).

2) Management or not, the way this happened shows a lack of maturity on the part of Joey Hauser. Period. Many will argue these are 19- and 20-year-old college students, but when one accepts a scholarship (payment for service) and makes a commitment, one should live up to it. Looking just at what we can see in the videotapes, it was clear Joey Hauser had some growing to do to be a good college ballplayer. The young man had talent but he needed refinement.

3) My personal view is that Joey Hauser was an outstanding high school basketball player. While I can't speak to what happened in AAU leagues, I suspect he was a BMOC at SPASH and suddenly wasn't the BMOC at Marquette. He won't be at Michigan State, Virginia or, perhaps, Wisconsin either. We've seen high school players who were court geniuses come to Marquette and suddenly have hidden weaknesses exposed because the quality of talent in the Big East is exponentially better than anything they've seen. I went to high school years ago with two all-staters who led our school to a second-place finish in the state tournament. They went to Vanderbilt and were below-average college players. My point is that Joey Hauser, while a better-than-average freshman, had weaknesses exposed. He was no Markus and he was no Sam -- at least not last year -- either. As Al said, the best thing about freshmen is they become sophomores.

I'm perhaps different than most people here in that I believe college basketball is a job. You're getting paid and Coach Wojo is your boss. I'll also agree that if I don't like my boss, I can leave and find other employment, subject to certain non-compete, non-solicitation agreements. Same for Joey. I don't begrudge him the right to leave but I do question (again, solely on what I see), the motivation for doing so.

Make no mistake about it. I'd be a lot happier if the Brothers Hauser were in the fold for next year. I thought Joey was a "huge" get last year and I still think he has enough talent that, if his attitude is good, he will be a great player.

My somewhat tongue-in-cheek criticism yesterday is predicated on two things. First is various commentaries on what happened this year and what we've heard since the transfer.

Secondly, I didn't and still don't understand Sam. The value to Sam of one more year at Marquette followed by a professional contract, as I pointed out, was huge. This was and IS the same argument my fellow Scoopers made for Henry Ellenson leaving after a year to turn pro (the present value of a professional contract in Year 1 versus Year 2 over the life of Mr. Ellenson's career). Deferring the NBA by the "sit-out" year, the Developmental League or Europe a year and losing a year of a professional life is a very expensive proposition.

I love my brothers too. But I kinda don't think their fights are my fights. More importantly, in a job, if you know you have but a year left at an assignment, you sometimes grin and bear it because it's in your best interest to do so.

Brother Lenny, I do think that the rumors among college basketball circles will work against Joey somewhat, just as rumors and opinions about any "hard to handle" professional make the rounds. I don't want to be Mr. Wonderful from Shark Tank and argue, "he's dead to me." I hope Joey grows up and finds himself.

Brother dgies,

I think this is an outstanding post that contains a lot of good insights. I also appreciate its tone. Thanks.

[MU82]

Because you cannot rebut it.  He was a political leader and you are trying to make an absurd connection / correlation.  I was recently warned, I’m not sure how your signature doesn’t violate the standard.

And yes, you have accused people of saying things they didn’t say.

Two for two....you can’t rebut it not should you try.

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[Lennys Tap]

Please find one example of me saying the Hauser parents are "awful." Very chicos-ish of you to claim I said something I didn't (though I do apologize for that ultimate insult).

And yes, I am more objective than you on this subject, even if you don't want to admit it. You seem to think the Hausers deserve 0% of the blame, or darn close to it. I don't know how that view can be deemed objective. I don't like or dislike the Hausers, and I don't like or dislike Wojo; I don't know any of them well enough to have formed an opinion like that. You like the Hausers and consider them blameless. That's OK. It's just neither objective nor realistic in my opinion ... and that's all any of this is from either of us -- opinion.

(As a fan, I now of course "hate" Sam and Joey because they are the "enemy." And I "love" Markus because he's a Warrior. That's very different than actual hate or like or love.)

I am not going to have a chicos/Lenny back and forth with you on this; I respect you too much for that. I've said my piece. Have a nice day.

Mike,

Not to put too fine a point on this, but I don't "blame" anyone for this.

Wojo is the head coach. He has a superstar. He believes that riding that superstar extremely hard (43% usage) is the most effective way to win games. As the head coach he has every right to have the team play to that philosophy - it's his head on the line when we win or lose.

The Hausers are only players - it's their job to play the game as their coach sees fit. I think we can agree that they played to the game plan even if, for example, Joey turned it over more than we liked. But they evidently decided that the style Wojo wanted them to play was either no fun or lessened the team's chances (or both).

The solutions were a) Wojo capitulate (something that never should happen), b) the Hausers shut up and play without regard for their present or future happiness (something nobody has a right to expect) or c) transfer - something that at least has the possibility of ultimately making everyone happier.

The parents are (like friends, girlfriends and others) extraneous to the discussion. They may have opinions (who doesn't?) but they're not driving the bus.

My bias, to the extent there is one, is that I think Marquette is a better basketball team with a little less Markus and a little more teamwork. That doesn't mean I don't love Markus as a person or a player or that I think a coach should let the players run things. In the end, I guess everyone did what they had to do - so I don't blame anyone.

[Mr. Sand-Knit]

Mike,

Not to put too fine a point on this, but I don't "blame" anyone for this.

Wojo is the head coach. He has a superstar. He believes that riding that superstar extremely hard (43% usage) is the most effective way to win games. As the head coach he has every right to have the team play to that philosophy - it's his head on the line when we win or lose.

The Hausers are only players - it's their job to play the game as their coach sees fit. I think we can agree that they played to the game plan even if, for example, Joey turned it over more than we liked. But they evidently decided that the style Wojo wanted them to play was either no fun or lessened the team's chances (or both).

The solutions were a) Wojo capitulate (something that never should happen), b) the Hausers shut up and play without regard for their present or future happiness (something nobody has a right to expect) or c) transfer - something that at least has the possibility of ultimately making everyone happier.

The parents are (like friends, girlfriends and others) extraneous to the discussion. They may have opinions (who doesn't?) but they're not driving the bus.

My bias, to the extent there is one, is that I think Marquette is a better basketball team with a little less Markus and a little more teamwork. That doesn't mean I don't love Markus as a person or a player or that I think a coach should let the players run things. In the end, I guess everyone did what they had to do - so I don't blame anyone.

Agree in theory, however, when i was coaching and granted they were not college aged kids but 95% of the negative crap i heard from players i absolutely guarantee was intially said by the parents.  College age its much lower im sure but dont diminish its impact

[MU82]

Mike,

Not to put too fine a point on this, but I don't "blame" anyone for this.

Wojo is the head coach. He has a superstar. He believes that riding that superstar extremely hard (43% usage) is the most effective way to win games. As the head coach he has every right to have the team play to that philosophy - it's his head on the line when we win or lose.

The Hausers are only players - it's their job to play the game as their coach sees fit. I think we can agree that they played to the game plan even if, for example, Joey turned it over more than we liked. But they evidently decided that the style Wojo wanted them to play was either no fun or lessened the team's chances (or both).

The solutions were a) Wojo capitulate (something that never should happen), b) the Hausers shut up and play without regard for their present or future happiness (something nobody has a right to expect) or c) transfer - something that at least has the possibility of ultimately making everyone happier.

The parents are (like friends, girlfriends and others) extraneous to the discussion. They may have opinions (who doesn't?) but they're not driving the bus.

My bias, to the extent there is one, is that I think Marquette is a better basketball team with a little less Markus and a little more teamwork. That doesn't mean I don't love Markus as a person or a player or that I think a coach should let the players run things. In the end, I guess everyone did what they had to do - so I don't blame anyone.

I appreciate this post, Lenny, and I understand your point.

Have a good one.

[Loose Cannon]

Mike,

Not to put too fine a point on this, but I don't "blame" anyone for this.

Wojo is the head coach. He has a superstar. He believes that riding that superstar extremely hard (43% usage) is the most effective way to win games. As the head coach he has every right to have the team play to that philosophy - it's his head on the line when we win or lose.

The Hausers are only players - it's their job to play the game as their coach sees fit. I think we can agree that they played to the game plan even if, for example, Joey turned it over more than we liked. But they evidently decided that the style Wojo wanted them to play was either no fun or lessened the team's chances (or both).

The solutions were a) Wojo capitulate (something that never should happen), b) the Hausers shut up and play without regard for their present or future happiness (something nobody has a right to expect) or c) transfer - something that at least has the possibility of ultimately making everyone happier.

The parents are (like friends, girlfriends and others) extraneous to the discussion. They may have opinions (who doesn't?) but they're not driving the bus.

My bias, to the extent there is one, is that I think Marquette is a better basketball team with a little less Markus and a little more teamwork. That doesn't mean I don't love Markus as a person or a player or that I think a coach should let the players run things. In the end, I guess everyone did what they had to do - so I don't blame anyone.

I think this is one of your better Posts.