Finally!

[mix it up]

For about 20 years, I was jealous of Villanova and Jay Wright for always having gritty guards with an edge (Brunson,Wayne,Gillespie, Fisher, Arcidiacono 2x etc). I know they’ve had many, but we FINALLY have one and it feels great. Glad to have you TK!

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

You may want to shorten up that time frame, because we have had plenty of "gritty guards with an edge" over the last 20 years.

[#UnleashSean]

I guess we can tell diener, James, and aker to go fly a kite.

[tower912]

Top two scorers in MU history.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

I guess we can tell diener, James, and aker to go fly a kite.

Vander, Jerel, etc. etc. etc.

[5DollarPitcher]

Top two scorers in MU history.

Markus, great player, does not qualify under OPs criteria.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Markus, great player, does not qualify under OPs criteria.

Why?

[Its DJOver]

For about 20 years, I was jealous of Villanova and Jay Wright for always having gritty guards with an edge (Brunson,Wayne,Gillespie, Fisher, Arcidiacono 2x etc). I know they’ve had many, but we FINALLY have one and it feels great. Glad to have you TK!

Arcidiacono X2?  That would assume you're referencing the current one that's averaging 4 ppg in 30 mpg as a Senior?  That's a bold take.

[94Warrior]

Arcidiacono X2?  That would assume you're referencing the current one that's averaging 4 ppg in 30 mpg as a Senior?  That's a bold take.

I thought Archie X2 was odd, too.  The current Archie falls somewhere between Jake Thomas and Derrick Wilson on the gritty scale. 
Our guards have matched up very favorably with Nova over the years.  Wings, bigs and the Jay Wright factor - not so much.

[tower912]

Markus, great player, does not qualify under OPs criteria.

Any measure (other than height)that ranks Arcidiacono 2.0 ahead of Markus is wrong.

[WarriorFan]

I was thinking the same thing when the announcer said it.  Gritty guards are different than scoring guards.  McNeal, DJO, Acker, Diener - those are the ones in our history.  Nova has a longer and (more recently) better succession of 6'3-6'7 guards who have always played tough D while running the offense well and getting huge buckets when required.  We hated most of them... but gotta admit they were all pretty good.  Brunson, DiVincenzo, Archie* the first... Kolek is like them.  This is a good thing.

[Goose]

Kolek is not the best guard over the past twenty years, he is the most valuable IMO. If Shaka is here a decade from now, we likely will be saying that Kolek was the guy that got everything started for the program. I cannot remember a player that has made everyone on the court better than what Kolek has accomplished. He is the foundation of this team and program.

[mix it up]

Yes, scoring and gritty are different. Ok Ok I was being generous including Archie 2.0 but I'll (mostly) stick by my OP.

And this is what message boards are about. Getting a conversation started. You're welcome. Glad I could help out 

I was thinking the same thing when the announcer said it.  Gritty guards are different than scoring guards.  McNeal, DJO, Acker, Diener - those are the ones in our history.  Nova has a longer and (more recently) better succession of 6'3-6'7 guards who have always played tough D while running the offense well and getting huge buckets when required.  We hated most of them... but gotta admit they were all pretty good.  Brunson, DiVincenzo, Archie* the first... Kolek is like them.  This is a good thing.

[MUfan12]

Markus scored a lot but he was also a tough MFer. His motor ran at a high level damn near all the time while getting beat up.

[Goose]

IMO, team success is the ultimate judge of a players role on a team of a program. I am hoping on TK having March wins on his resume before he departs MU.

[MU82]

Kolek is not the best guard over the past twenty years, he is the most valuable IMO. If Shaka is here a decade from now, we likely will be saying that Kolek was the guy that got everything started for the program. I cannot remember a player that has made everyone on the court better than what Kolek has accomplished. He is the foundation of this team and program.

The thing that I like the most about Kolek is how much better he got from last season to this. He was A-OK last season as a first-time PG but we needed him to be so much better ... and he knew it ... and he made himself so much better. I can't even imagine the number of hours of work he put in to add so much to his game. I'm excited about what he can do the rest of this season and beyond.

I will say that Oso also makes everyone on the court better, and he does it from a position that makes it very difficult for opponents to contend with. He's a college basketball unicorn -- there is no other player like him in the country. Because we have nobody Oso's size who can come within a million miles of doing what he does, he is the one irreplaceable guy on this year's team IMHO. But Kolek is 1-A, and you're probably right about him being that foundational building block of the Shaka era.

That Tyler and Oso are roommates and best friends just makes this season's story all the more compelling.

[panda]

Arcidiacono X2?  That would assume you're referencing the current one that's averaging 4 ppg in 30 mpg as a Senior?  That's a bold take.

He’s correct - white hoopers are inherently gritty.

[Uncle Rico]

He’s correct - white hoopers are inherently gritty.

It’s because they’re usually gym rats.  Many of them also played QB in HS and aren’t afraid to take charges.  A lot of them tend to be coaches kids, too

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

I was thinking the same thing when the announcer said it.  Gritty guards are different than scoring guards.  McNeal, DJO, Acker, Diener - those are the ones in our history.  Nova has a longer and (more recently) better succession of 6'3-6'7 guards who have always played tough D while running the offense well and getting huge buckets when required.  We hated most of them... but gotta admit they were all pretty good.  Brunson, DiVincenzo, Archie* the first... Kolek is like them.  This is a good thing.

Doesn't the bolded include players like James, McNeal and Vander?

[TSmith34, Inc.]

It’s because they’re usually gym rats.  Many of them also played QB in HS and aren’t afraid to take charges.  A lot of them tend to be coaches kids, too

Is punching opponents in the nads and intentionally tripping them part of the skill set, too? Or is that just the extra special gritty ones from Madison?

[MU82]

It’s because they’re usually gym rats.  Many of them also played QB in HS and aren’t afraid to take charges.  A lot of them tend to be coaches kids, too

High basketball IQs. Hard workers who make up for their lack of athleticism (unlike those great athletes who refuse to work hard). Natural leaders.

[panda]

High basketball IQs. Hard workers who make up for their lack of athleticism (unlike those great athletes who refuse to work hard). Natural leaders.

That’s a coaches son

[Uncle Rico]

Is punching opponents in the nads and intentionally tripping them part of the skill set, too? Or is that just the extra special gritty ones from Madison?

As long as they have Bible verses in their social media bios, I’ve been told those things don’t define the players

[Spaniel with a Short Tail]

The thing that I like the most about Kolek is how much better he got from last season to this. He was A-OK last season as a first-time PG but we needed him to be so much better ... and he knew it ... and he made himself so much better. I can't even imagine the number of hours of work he put in to add so much to his game. I'm excited about what he can do the rest of this season and beyond.

I will say that Oso also makes everyone on the court better, and he does it from a position that makes it very difficult for opponents to contend with. He's a college basketball unicorn -- there is no other player like him in the country. Because we have nobody Oso's size who can come within a million miles of doing what he does, he is the one irreplaceable guy on this year's team IMHO. But Kolek is 1-A, and you're probably right about him being that foundational building block of the Shaka era.

That Tyler and Oso are roommates and best friends just makes this season's story all the more compelling.

Where did you hear that?

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Where did you hear that?

It was said on the Providence broadcast.

[MU82]

It was said on the Providence broadcast.

Thought I had heard it before then, too. They talk basketball and life all the time. Unless I'm misremembering something, which certainly is possible.

[BM1090]

Markus scored a lot but he was also a tough MFer. His motor ran at a high level damn near all the time while getting beat up.

Right. He was probably the best-conditioned athlete we've had in the past 15-20 years.

[MU82]

Right. He was probably the best-conditioned athlete we've had in the past 15-20 years.

Probably since Ners played intramurals.

[Newsdreams]

Probably since Ners played intramurals.

But did he dunk?