Let's Talk About Ben

[MuggsyB]

Here's what I'd be working on in the off-season if I was Mr. Gold in no particular order:

1) Stength/Power on both ends of the floor.  Add a little muscle/weight.  I'd like to see him much more active and physical defensively.  He has enough quickness to bother on the perimeter and then recover to rim protect.  On the offensive end he must finish with authority inside and work on his footwork to get easier interior looks and free throws.

2) Drain the pick and pop 3 with more consistency while exercising patience with shot selection.  The young man has a great stroke but often he launches the second he has a little space.  At his height he can pretty much get that J at will and without being bothered.  I think he can be absolutely deadly in the P&P game and we could see it as soon as November.

3) Run the floor.  The kid has good jets for a big man and is playing with a dime machine.  Run, catch the rock, and throw it down ruthlessly.  I also believe in the h-c he can get flushes at the rim on beck-doors. 

4) Get on the glass.  I think it's a combination of fundamentals, lower body strength, and opportunity.  My take is Ben can do damage on the O-Glass in due time.

*I have a lot of confidence Ben will get there and be a huge asset to MU moving forward.  The question that I have is whether he and Oso can effectively play together for signiificant stretches next season?  If they can't it will be interesting how Shaka utilizes his skills and chooses rotations. 

[MuggsyB]

Oh....I forgot about working on finishing with his left hand. 

[Tha Hound]

I think he's going to be very good for us next year. Hopefully things slow down for him a bit on both ends. If so, he's got everything you'd want in a big man in today's game.

[MuggsyB]

I think he's going to be very good for us next year. Hopefully things slow down for him a bit on both ends. If so, he's got everything you'd want in a big man in today's game.

That's a really good point Hound.  I think when guys have truncated mins they can try to do too much.  He would definitely benefit from slowing down a bit. 

[GoldenEagles03]

My question becomes...do they start Ben at the 4 at find a backup for Oso in the portal or do they start Joplin at the 4 use Amadou as his backup?

I think Ben has a ton of value at the 4 and Joplin is awesome off the bench but is that the route they go? Not so sure.

I love the idea of molding Amadou into the 3/4 spots like OMax. Started as a 3 with Justin, moved to the 4 after Justin left.

Kolek (Tre/Sean)
Kam (Chase)
Stevie (Amadou/Lowery)
Ben (Joplin)
Oso (Portal Addition)

Could be fun.

[Hards Alumni]

Oh....I forgot about working on finishing with his left hand.

Aren't we all.

[Pakuni]

My question becomes...do they start Ben at the 4 at find a backup for Oso in the portal or do they start Joplin at the 4 use Amadou as his backup?

I think Ben has a ton of value at the 4 and Joplin is awesome off the bench but is that the route they go? Not so sure.

I love the idea of molding Amadou into the 3/4 spots like OMax. Started as a 3 with Justin, moved to the 4 after Justin left.

Kolek (Tre/Sean)
Kam (Chase)
Stevie (Amadou/Lowery)
Ben (Joplin)
Oso (Portal Addition)

Could be fun.

Who is Ben guarding?

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

My question becomes...do they start Ben at the 4 at find a backup for Oso in the portal or do they start Joplin at the 4 use Amadou as his backup?

I think Ben has a ton of value at the 4 and Joplin is awesome off the bench but is that the route they go? Not so sure.

I love the idea of molding Amadou into the 3/4 spots like OMax. Started as a 3 with Justin, moved to the 4 after Justin left.

Kolek (Tre/Sean)
Kam (Chase)
Stevie (Amadou/Lowery)
Ben (Joplin)
Oso (Portal Addition)

Could be fun.

Unless we get a transfer somewhere, my guess is that Oso and Joplin will start, with Gold getting plenty of playing time playing either's place. Can easily see a tree man rotation if Amadou isn't ready.

[GoldenEagles03]

Unless we get a transfer somewhere, my guess is that Oso and Joplin will start, with Gold getting plenty of playing time playing either's place. Can easily see a tree man rotation if Amadou isn't ready.

Oso starting has never been nor ever will be a question assuming good health.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Oso starting has never been nor ever will be a question assuming good health.

No kidding.  My point is that Gold can play in either role...and so can Joplin.  The wild card is who else is going to be involved if Omax doesn't return.

[real chili 83]

Are there Manatees in New Zealand waters?

[Juan Anderson's Mixtape]

Unless we get a transfer somewhere, my guess is that Oso and Joplin will start, with Gold getting plenty of playing time playing either's place. Can easily see a tree man rotation if Amadou isn't ready.

A tree man would definitely add a lot of height to the roster.

[Viper]

A tree man would definitely add a lot of height to the roster.

maybe Shaka will add Tree Rollins to the staff

[MU82]

Muggs, I think if we asked Shaka and/or Nevada, they'd say they want Gold to shoot without hesitation if he's open after running a pick-and-pop.

[Coleman]

Offseason development will dictate who starts the 4....Gold or Jop. The early favorite is Jop but if Gold develops it could very well be him. It will be good to have some healthy competition. Either way, if OMax is gone both guys are going to get plenty of minutes. I almost see it as a platoon situation regardless of who is the "starter"

I also agree with Sultan that if Gold doesn't start he can sub in at either the 4 or 5. I could easily see him getting 20 minutes a game off the bench.

[Elonsmusk]

Unless we get a transfer somewhere, my guess is that Oso and Joplin will start, with Gold getting plenty of playing time playing either's place. Can easily see a tree man rotation if Amadou isn't ready.

I agree with this analysis.  I also suspect Ben will get 27+ minutes next year if OMax doesn't return.  Expecting a big step forward for Ben.  He shot 39% from 3 against BE competition.  Took him the Non-Con portion of the schedule to get acclimated to faster pace of play, and though the game was still a little too fast for him at times during BE play, he still shot the ball quite well from distance and showed good BBall IQ putting it on the deck when opposition closed out on his 3.

[lawdog77]

Now I have the Salt N Pepa song stuck in my head. Thanks scoop

[MU82]

I agree with this analysis.  I also suspect Ben will get 27+ minutes next year if OMax doesn't return.  Expecting a big step forward for Ben.  He shot 39% from 3 against BE competition.  Took him the Non-Con portion of the schedule to get acclimated to faster pace of play, and though the game was still a little too fast for him at times during BE play, he still shot the ball quite well from distance and showed good BBall IQ putting it on the deck when opposition closed out on his 3.

Good post. I think I was most impressed by some of the decisions Gold made re when to shoot and when to drive. Showed a lot of progress in that realm. I'm trying to temper my expectations, but he certainly has what it takes to be a successful stretch-4/5.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I've been all aboard the Kiwi-mobile for a while. If O-Max goes, I think Jop takes his starting spot but Gold will play some huge minutes off the bench. I think Ross would slide into Joplin's 6th man role and Gold would be the second guy off the bench playing at least 18 minutes a game.

If O-Max returns, it will be interesting. I don't see O-Max or Jop losing minutes....and they won't be able to play at the three as much because I foresee a big step for Ross and I think Norman will need some minutes. I think Gold will take a big step in skill and production, but I'm not sure his minutes would increase much in this scenario. I could maybe see him taking a few minutes from Oso to help keep Oso fresh and out of foul trouble.

I could also see Shaka adding a Kur type player via the portal. That happens and OMax returns? No idea where the minutes will come from.

In all three situations, I see Sean as a quick change of pace sub for Kolek getting maybe 10-15 minutes a game.

This logjam for minutes is a great problem to have.

[oldwarrior81]

I've been all aboard the Kiwi-mobile for a while. If O-Max goes, I think Jop takes his starting spot but Gold will play some huge minutes off the bench. I think Ross would slide into Joplin's 6th man role and Gold would be the second guy off the bench playing at least 18 minutes a game.

If O-Max returns, it will be interesting. I don't see O-Max or Jop losing minutes....and they won't be able to play at the three as much because I foresee a big step for Ross and I think Norman will need some minutes. I think Gold will take a big step in skill and production, but I'm not sure his minutes would increase much in this scenario. I could maybe see him taking a few minutes from Oso to help keep Oso fresh and out of foul trouble.

I could also see Shaka adding a Kur type player via the portal. That happens and OMax returns? No idea where the minutes will come from.

In all three situations, I see Sean as a quick change of pace sub for Kolek getting maybe 10-15 minutes a game.

This logjam for minutes is a great problem to have.

I agree with this.

If OMax is gone, can Joplin pick up his extra minutes, making the leap from 19 to Prosper's 29?
Can Gold jump from 9 minutes per game to Joplin's 19?
Will Amadou provide those 9 minutes a game that Gold played last season.
Joplin played about 8 minutes a game at the wing last year.  10 at PF.  Those 8 minutes should go to a wing.

[MU82]

I agree with this.

If OMax is gone, can Joplin pick up his extra minutes, making the leap from 19 to Prosper's 29?
Can Gold jump from 9 minutes per game to Joplin's 19?
Will Amadou provide those 9 minutes a game that Gold played last season.
Joplin played about 8 minutes a game at the wing last year.  10 at PF.  Those 8 minutes should go to a wing.

Even if O-Max leaves, Joplin wouldn't have to go from 19 to 29. On the nights he has it going, he might play 30+; on the nights the shot's not falling, he might play 15 or fewer.

Unless Jop suddenly becomes a better athlete, he'll never be close to what O-Max is defensively. IMHO Shaka will apportion the minutes at that spot according to what he believes the team needs at any given time in a game.

[Dickthedribbler]

Aren't we all.

Great line, Hards. I just about peed.

[Dr. Blackheart]

Great line, Hards. I just about peed.

Stop by the Mecca

[Dickthedribbler]

Stop by the Mecca

Another great line, Doc. You have a terrific memory.

[willie warrior]

I agree with this analysis.  I also suspect Ben will get 27+ minutes next year if OMax doesn't return.  Expecting a big step forward for Ben.  He shot 39% from 3 against BE competition.  Took him the Non-Con portion of the schedule to get acclimated to faster pace of play, and though the game was still a little too fast for him at times during BE play, he still shot the ball quite well from distance and showed good BBall IQ putting it on the deck when opposition closed out on his 3.

Hope you are right. But right now he is basically a perimeter big, and have not seen much that shows he is a rim protector, which is the biggest flaw in current roster.

[FartyEightHours]

We need Gold to put up 15-20 shots a game imo.  He’s got the talent to be an all American if we utilize him.

[Uncle Rico]

We need Gold to put up 15-20 shots a game imo.  He’s got the talent to be an all American if we utilize him.

He does

[FartyEightHours]

If Ben develops a jump hook to go with his shot he’s basically Nikola Jokic but possibly better in a year or two.

[Skatastrophy]

If Ben develops a jump hook to go with his shot he’s basically Nikola Jokic but possibly better in a year or two.

Let's surpass Nikola Jovic before we try to aim for Jokic.

[MuggsyB]

There's no need to mock the young man. 

[FartyEightHours]

There's no need to mock the young man.

I think you just don’t believe in the young man.  Shame on you.

[MuggsyB]

I think you just don’t believe in the young man.  Shame on you.

Of course I believe but no one is comparing him to Jokic. 

[The Equalizer]

Of course I believe but no one is comparing him to Jokic.

Someone literally compared him to Jokic two posts before yours:

If Ben develops a jump hook to go with his shot he’s basically Nikola Jokic but possibly better in a year or two.

[MuggsyB]

Someone literally compared him to Jokic two posts before yours:

You know what I mean.   Let's get back to reality. 

[oldwarrior81]

take the time and look up Mo Wagner college stats at Michigan.

He had a freshman season not unlike Gold, but then really started putting up some nice numbers the next two years.

[JTJ3]

take the time and look up Mo Wagner college stats at Michigan.

He had a freshman season not unlike Gold, but then really started putting up some nice numbers the next two years.

Wow, not just the stats but also size/skillset this is an awesome comp

[MU82]

Jokic? Don't insult Ben!

Gold is more like a combo of Bill Russell, Wilt Chamberlain and Bill Walton. With a sprinkling of Kevin Durant.

[Skatastrophy]

Wow, not just the stats but also size/skillset this is an awesome comp

Maybe Giannis will headbutt Ben like he did Mo

[FartyEightHours]

Jokic? Don't insult Ben!

Gold is more like a combo of Bill Russell, Wilt Chamberlain and Bill Walton. With a sprinkling of Kevin Durant.

Wow.  Nobody believes in Ben besides me and Rico.   

[We R Final Four]

Muggs, I think if we asked Shaka and/or Nevada, they'd say they want Gold to shoot without hesitation if he's open after running a pick-and-pop.

Not only Gold……..every single player on the court. Every player shoots the 3 without hesitation. Thats the beauty. Cmon now.

[Jay Bee]

  He shot 39% from 3 against BE competition.  Took him the Non-Con portion of the schedule to get acclimated to faster pace of play, and though the game was still a little too fast for him at times during BE play, he still shot the ball quite well from distance and showed good BBall IQ putting it on the deck when opposition closed out on his 3.

From Jan 15 on, he shot 6/21 for 28.6% from 3 against Conf foes, but ok

[The Equalizer]

Not only Gold……..every single player on the court. Every player shoots the 3 without hesitation. Thats the beauty. Cmon now.

Not every player.  One doesn't shoot the three at all.

[The Equalizer]

From Jan 15 on, he shot 6/21 for 28.6% from 3 against Conf foes, but ok

Speaking of meaningless splits he was 50% in all conference games up until Jan 27.  And then 5 of 14 or 35.7% against everyone other than DePaul starting Jan 28 through the end of the season, but excluding the conference and NCAA tournaments.

He shot 0% in the BET, but then 50% in the NCAA tournament

So the conclusion is Gold should avoid the three early in the year, let the bombs fly from the first conference game through the end of  January, and after that point try threes against every team not named DePaul. Then iced for the BET, and get the green light in the NCAA where he shot 50%

[jfp61]

Ben Gold was probably the second worst player in our rotation last year ahead of Sean, which is perfectly fine as a freshman. But what is bizarre and promising is how well he played against good teams.

Ben Gold Against Top 80 teams.
120 Ortg. +4.8 RAPM. 66.0%eFG. 43.8% 3pt%. 66.7 % from 2 (every shot at the rim).

Ben Gold Against teams 81 and lower.
98.6 Ortg. -0.2 RAPM. 47.1%%eFG. 24.1% 3pt%. 60.9 % from 2.

I don't know if we'll ever defend well with him on the court, despite his active hands, but he does have the tendency to help aid the offensive in going thermonuclear against good teams. His floor spacing throws everyone for a loop. His presence created ample driving lanes.

[tower912]

I expect progress similar to Oso from year 1 to year 2.    Or similar to Joplin this past year.   If OMax doesn't return, I expect to see Oso defending more on the perimeter and Ben to guard the post more.

[Jay Bee]

I need more d.  Fensive rebounds. His % should shoot up big time

[4everwarriors]

Figured dis topic wood bea 'bout Shapiro, hey?

[We R Final Four]

Not every player.  One doesn't shoot the three at all.

Last year Oso didnt shoot outside of 12’. He shot 3s in HS. Better chance he shoots 3s than a mid range jumper next year.
If he’s capable, and hes open…..Nevada will want him to shoot the 3.

[Viper]

Figured dis topic wood bea 'bout Shapiro, hey?

I like him. Talks a little fast, but has game. Can really push the tempo.