Todd Had Some Interesting Quotes in the JS

[NersEllenson]

While Buzz is clearly not infallible, how do you justify, based on game performance alone, knowing so much more about how this team would perform than Buzz and assistants who see them practice every day?

100% agree. That doesn't mean that he won't make mistakes, get outcoached, etc. But he's making these decisions for a reason, not just to annoy Todd (or Ners). His job security comes partially from winning games. He's going to do everything within reason to accomplish that goal.

All we as fans can measure is game performance, and games matter a hell of a lot more than practice.  Todd's put up numbers on par and in excess of Vander throughout his career, all the while being on a much shorter leash.

And as for Buzz, of course winning is a huge priority - but don't think for a minute Buzz doesn't have his eccentricities and a method to the madness.  Nor should you think that Buzz is 100% correct at all times with his eccentricities.  EVERY coach makes coaching mistakes - just as every fan makes incorrect perceptions.  I LOVE Buzz as much as any poster on the board - yet that doesn't mean I believe he's right 100% of the time.  Ironically, I used to get criticized for never criticizing Buzz...and when I do, the same handful of posters who used to give me hell for giving Buzz so much support...now get on me being critical of Buzz and use things such as:  I'm going to trust that a coach who has led us to Elite 8, Sweet 16, Sweet 16...always knows what he's doing, and always makes the right decisions, and should never be questioned for such decisions.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Edit:

Forget it.

I don't have anything original to add to this conversation, and I'm trying not to say the same crap over and over again. 

Mods, feel free to delete.

[GGGG]

Todd's "leash" his freshman year was nowhere as long as what Vander got, during Vander's freshman year.  Vander was flat out AWFUL as a freshman, and would still get 15-20 minutes EVERY game.  Todd actually helped WIN games as a freshman, and showed up in the NCAA.  Vander did nothing to help the team win games as a freshman.  

Todd Mayo mpg as a freshman...21.1
Vander Blue mpg as a freshman...19.0

And to say that Blue did "did nothing to help the games as a freshman" is absurd.  Blue was a stellar defender in the defensive scheme even early on as a freshman.  Todd struggled with that at times even last year.

Basketball is played at both ends.

EDIT:  I should also add that someone else mentioned that when Vander was a freshman, there weren't very many alternatives.  And that's true.  It would be interesting to see how much Joe Fulce would have played had he not been injured that year.  When Todd was a freshman, you had a much deeper rotation.

[MU82]

Todd Mayo mpg as a freshman...21.1
Vander Blue mpg as a freshman...19.0

And to say that Blue did "did nothing to help the games as a freshman" is absurd.  Blue was a stellar defender in the defensive scheme even early on as a freshman.  Todd struggled with that at times even last year.

Basketball is played at both ends.

Thanks for this. Beat me to it.

[NersEllenson]

Todd Mayo mpg as a freshman...21.1
Vander Blue mpg as a freshman...19.0

And to say that Blue did "did nothing to help the games as a freshman" is absurd.  Blue was a stellar defender in the defensive scheme even early on as a freshman.  Todd struggled with that at times even last year.

Basketball is played at both ends.

EDIT:  I should also add that someone else mentioned that when Vander was a freshman, there weren't very many alternatives.  And that's true.  It would be interesting to see how much Joe Fulce would have played had he not been injured that year.  When Todd was a freshman, you had a much deeper rotation.

I love the continued notion of guys being "stellar" defenders and basketball being a game played on both ends, yet when you look at their "stellar" defensive statistics, they aren't anything remarkable or different than those of the guys who are significantly better offensively.  Burton, is the latest guy who catches hell regarding his defense, yet the guy leads the team in steals and blocks - but to hell with those stats, because he's "out of position" at times - because all message board guys know the team defensive concepts game in and game out, right?  Rule 1 for Buzz - protect the paint, shut off penetration.  So, guys may help off a perimeter guy too far to the eye to protect paint, but guy is doing his job under Buzz's scheme...

Here's Blue and Todd's freshman year - one was quite a bit better offensively in the way of shooting percentages...and quite comparable defensively.  Big point is Vander and Todd have basically been the identical player at MU in each of their seasons, and some slurped so hard on Vander last year, and Todd is basically replicating and exceeding Vander's Junior year stats this year and we have continued posts question if team would be better off without Mayo. Todd doesn't get it, etc.
 
http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/compare?add=todd-mayo&i=1&p1=vander-blue&todd-mayo=2011-2012&vander-blue=2010-2011

[GGGG]

Todd is MU's best all around guard this year, and I hope he can do what Vander ended up doing.  But he hasn't yet.  Really no use continuing to debate this when you resort to willie "slurper" language either.

Bowing out.

[macman320]

We've been so long for this to happen...Todd gets it.  Look out, world.  January 11, 2014 was Todd Mayo Day.

Those were my thoughts exactly. Even more than his stellar play, those words brought renewed optimism that a leader is born and here to stay. This could be a very fun ride.

[MUSF]

  Big point is Vander and Todd have basically been the identical player at MU in each of their seasons
 
http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/compare?add=todd-mayo&i=1&p1=vander-blue&todd-mayo=2011-2012&vander-blue=2010-2011

This isn't even remotely true. I don't care what stats you cite, Vander was a better player than Todd. You sound like the guy who came on here weeks ago to show us all how Josh Gasser is better than Vander Blue.

[MUSF]

...games matter a hell of a lot more than practice. 

I would argue that this is not true in many cases and I think most coaches, Buzz included, would agree with me.

[MU82]

I would argue that this is not true in many cases and I think most coaches, Buzz included, would agree with me.

I'm supposed to be the franchise player, and we in here talkin' about practice. I mean, listen, we talkin' about practice. Not a game, not a game, not a game. We talkin' about practice. Not the game that I go out there and die for and play every game like it's my last. Not the game. We talkin' about practice, man. I mean, how silly is that? We talkin' about practice.

[keefe]

I'm supposed to be the franchise player, and we in here talkin' about practice. I mean, listen, we talkin' about practice. Not a game, not a game, not a game. We talkin' about practice. Not the game that I go out there and die for and play every game like it's my last. Not the game. We talkin' about practice, man. I mean, how silly is that? We talkin' about practice.

Georgetown alum

[NersEllenson]

This isn't even remotely true. I don't care what stats you cite, Vander was a better player than Todd. You sound like the guy who came on here weeks ago to show us all how Josh Gasser is better than Vander Blue.

You think Vander was better as a freshman than Todd?  Sophomore?  (I'd argue sophomore year was a throwaway for Todd, yet statistically they were similar as sophomores.)  Now we are on to Junior year, and all measuring stats, offensive, defensive, efficiency - Todd is better in 9 out of 13 categories.

Vander really picked up his play in February and March last year, had a great NCAA tourney run - but he was not a superstar.  It's simply that his game took a huge leap from being pretty bad as a freshman/sophomore - to being pretty good as a junior.  He didn't get drafted in a weak draft year.  So, he was a good college player as a junior - and I fully believe Todd will end up having a season as good if not better than Blue this year - and Todd has to do it playing with a totally inept PG.

[Lennys Tap]

You think Vander was better as a freshman than Todd?  Sophomore?  (I'd argue sophomore year was a throwaway for Todd, yet statistically they were similar as sophomores.)  Now we are on to Junior year, and all measuring stats, offensive, defensive, efficiency - Todd is better in 9 out of 13 categories.

Vander really picked up his play in February and March last year, had a great NCAA tourney run - but he was not a superstar.  It's simply that his game took a huge leap from being pretty bad as a freshman/sophomore - to being pretty good as a junior.  He didn't get drafted in a weak draft year.  So, he was a good college player as a junior - and I fully believe Todd will end up having a season as good if not better than Blue this year - and Todd has to do it playing with a totally inept PG.

The guy who led us to the Big East regular season championship and carried us to the Elite 8 was "pretty good". Derrick Wilson is "totally inept". John Dawson sees the floor well and has earned 30 minutes a game. Solid analysis.

[GGGG]

Simply put Ners, there aren't many people who are going to agree with you that Todd this year = Vander last year.  Vander was a better player in almost every facet of the game.  

Vander was second team all Big East.  Let's see if Todd can accomplish that in an arguably weaker conference.

[mu-rara]

Todd's best games have been equal to Vander's (junior season).

There have not been nearly as many good games, and his bad games are worse.

[Sunbelt15]

Georgetown alum

No!  The Answer.......VA!


Is that guy ever going to age? Still looks 20.

[NersEllenson]

The guy who led us to the Big East regular season championship and carried us to the Elite 8 was "pretty good". Derrick Wilson is "totally inept". John Dawson sees the floor well and has earned 30 minutes a game. Solid analysis.

Your continued belief that Derrick Wilson isn't what ails this team is far from solid analysis.  You want to dog Dawson, but please support a valid argument as to what Derrick Wilson has done to show he's better than Dawson?  This team is so much worse this year, not because Vander is gone - it's because Junior Cadougan is gone.  Mayo has replaced Vander's production stat for stat on a per minute played basis.  Hopefully, Buzz stops with the tough love on Mayo, and let's him play 33 minutes a game like Vander got.  Same for Derrick, hopefully Buzz eventually reduces Derrick's minutes to 20, and splits them with Dawson.  If not...we can talk after the NIT.

http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/compare?add=todd-mayo&p1=vander-blue

[tower912]

Ners, please, for the love of all that is holy, stop turning every thread into a Derrick Wilson crapfest. 

[GGGG]

Ners, please, for the love of all that is holy, stop turning every thread into a Derrick Wilson crapfest. 

This is what he does.  He claims his point of view, never backs down, and pounds it into you until you submit.

I mean, he's still saying that we don't miss Vander because Todd has replaced him.  Really, who actually believes that?  He'll use cherry-picked stats to back up his point...yet when the same stats show the Derrick is more effective than Dawson, he'll find all sorts of excuses why we shouldn't use those stats.

[NersEllenson]

Ners, please, for the love of all that is holy, stop turning every thread into a Derrick Wilson crapfest. 

Will see what I can do - guess it is the lightning rod topic of this season though.  At the end of the day, it is Buzz I'm totally frustrated with - not Derrick's fault he's being played 30+ minutes a game.  That's on Buzz.  As has been Mayo's under utilization, as well as Burton at this point.

[tower912]

Will see what I can do - guess it is the lightning rod topic of this season though.  At the end of the day, it is Buzz I'm totally frustrated with - not Derrick's fault he's being played 30+ minutes a game.  That's on Buzz.  As has been Mayo's under utilization, as well as Burton at this point.

You are contributing mightily to it being the lightning rod topic of the season.   

[NersEllenson]

This is what he does.  He claims his point of view, never backs down, and pounds it into you until you submit.

I mean, he's still saying that we don't miss Vander because Todd has replaced him.  Really, who actually believes that?  He'll use cherry-picked stats to back up his point...yet when the same stats show the Derrick is more effective than Dawson, he'll find all sorts of excuses why we shouldn't use those stats.

I gave you every statistical measure between Todd and Vander from statsheet (cherry picked none) - and there is very little to suggest we are "missing" Vander from a production standpoint any way - and at least there is a relevant sample size in that Mayo is at least getting 20 minutes a game.  Whereas in the Dawson/Derrick Wilson, there is a huge disparity in minutes to completely draw statistical relevance from other than Derrick has gotten a TON of minutes to show us what we can expect....but.....here are Junior and Derrick's stats.....notice much more disparity in these than you see between Todd and Vander...

http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/compare?add=derrick-wilson&p1=junior-cadougan

[GGGG]

I gave you every statistical measure between Todd and Vander from statsheet (cherry picked none) - and there is very little to suggest we are "missing" Vander from a production standpoint any way - and at least there is a relevant sample size in that Mayo is at least getting 20 minutes a game.  Whereas in the Dawson/Derrick Wilson, there is a huge disparity in minutes to completely draw statistical relevance from other than Derrick has gotten a TON of minutes to show us what we can expect....but.....here are Junior and Derrick's stats.....notice much more disparity in these than you see between Todd and Vander...

http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/compare?add=derrick-wilson&p1=junior-cadougan

It's like you are trying to prove my point.

But anyway, as anyone can see, drawing a statistical comparison between what Vander did *all* of last year, and what Todd has done through January 14th, makes little sense.

But carry on...

[NersEllenson]

It's like you are trying to prove my point.

But anyway, as anyone can see, drawing a statistical comparison between what Vander did *all* of last year, and what Todd has done through January 14th, makes little sense.

But carry on...

Sounds good.  We'll see where the dust settles at the end of the year.  I'll leave it alone till then...and hope Mayo continues to get 30 minutes + per game - as the team needs that in order to be more successful.

[Lennys Tap]

Will see what I can do - guess it is the lightning rod topic of this season though.  At the end of the day, it is Buzz I'm totally frustrated with - not Derrick's fault he's being played 30+ minutes a game.  That's on Buzz.  As has been Mayo's under utilization, as well as Burton at this point.

Finally.This is 0% on Derrick. What do you want him to do? Start loafing at practice? Start ignoring team rules? Start cutting classes? Ask Buzz to be benched? All Derrick has been for 2.5 years at MU is a warrior - a guy who busts his ass for his teammates, coach, university and even entitled alumni like yourself. He works for his minutes but he doesn't dole them out. Get off his back.

Get on Buzz's. If somebody is inept, it's him. Say it. It's one thing to have a minor disagreement with a coach about strategy and/or playing time. But if Buzz is playing a guy 30+ minutes who doesn't deserve anything more than mop up time while the guy who could save our season is sitting right next to him on the bench then he deserves to be ripped - probably even fired. You haven't been to one practice nor as far as I know made a nickel in the game but you think you can coach this MU team better from your couch than Buzz has from the bench/locker room. Fine. If that's the case, get off the slurper's bandwagon and go after the guy you used to think knew what he was doing. On the off chance that your analysis is right, he's the bad guy, not Derrick.