Thank You Doug Gottlieb For Speaking The Truth!

[Tugg Speedman]

McDonald's team selection is flawed
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By Doug Gottlieb
February 12, 2011

http://insider.espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/blog?name=ncbexperts&id=6115872

Let me start with a question: Are McDonald's All-Americans chosen purely based on their own ability and performance, or are they picked based on whether or not they sign with an A-list school?

I bring this up because the McDonald's selection committee has done it again, churning out several curious selections and even more curious omissions this year. To be blunt, it is a joke. Need further proof? Look at the North Carolina Tar Heels. How is it possible that Roy Williams could coach a team loaded with seven Mickey D's All-Americans last season and still not make the NCAA tournament? He'd have to be the worst coach of all time to underproduce with a squad that was truly that talented, but Williams' two national titles and career winning percentage of .800 suggest that the man knows how to coach.

It is in this way that the McDonald's selection is flawed. Too often the emphasis on the ranking and voting in of players is based strongly on where they signed, how well-known they are and how high a profile their AAU team had. The game, the most prestigious in the land, is supposed to represent the top 25 players in the country, or at least come as close as possible.

The committee has hit on some top prospects in the past, including the likes of Michael Jordan, Kobe Bryant, LeBron James, Kevin Durant and Derrick Rose, but there is also a substantial group of players who were clearly vastly overrated based on where they signed. Omm'A Givens, Casey Sanders, Winfred Walton, Neil Fingleton and Taymon Domzalski are just a few names you might have gotten excited about, only to be let down when they were decent but ultimately overrated players based on their McDonald's All-American status.

I get it -- these things are subjective. But man, going two years in a row without having a California selection, for example, is hard to believe. Two years ago, Kawhi Leonard was the California high school player of the year and his team won the state championship; he didn't get an invite to the game. All he has done since is average a double-double for the San Diego State Aztecs (a school without a rich basketball pedigree).

Last year, the California snub was Allen Crabbe of Price High School. Crabbe is averaging 12 points per game (20 in conference play) as a freshman in the Pac-10. He should win the league's freshman of the year award. Did he not get picked because he committed early to play for the California Golden Bears and was not an AAU scene fixture who signed with UNC, the Duke Blue Devils or Kentucky Wildcats? It makes you wonder.

This year there are several omissions and other suspect selections.

Tony Wroten Jr., a Washington Huskies commitment and one of the notable snubs, handled it well in this interview (and he is right about Air Jordans versus Reeboks).

Wroten injured his knee his junior year and it may have hurt him on the AAU circuit, but one top-25 head coach said, "Wow, Wroten did not make it and Wiltjer did? Who picks this thing?"

Kyle Wiltjer is a very nice player and might get to start as a freshman at Kentucky next year, but the 6-foot-10, face-up big's selection could have something to do with the growing belief that if John Calipari selects a player, he must be special.

One assistant coach complained to me about another curious selection. "Shannon Scott was not recruited to start, we billed him as a second-level recruit, and I am stunned. No way. Nick Johnson is a stud, and Josiah Turner is a game-changing recruit for Arizona."

A Big East coach chimed in as well: "Quinn Cook ahead of Josiah Turner is a farce. Marshall Plumlee, too. This Duke bias thing has got to stop. My goodness, Cook is a good player, Marshall too, but there is not a soul alive who thinks they are players who will have a profound impact on a program. Jabari Brown will at Oregon, Josiah Turner will at Arizona and Dorian Finney-Smith will at Virginia Tech. If Finney-Smith signed at Duke, he'd be in the game, and that is flat-out wrong."

There's no way of knowing exactly what is behind these decisions. It could just be that some voters do not see players from all over the country, and therefore end up missing on some players. Or, it could be exactly what we all think it is: that our infatuation with Duke, UNC, Kentucky and other blue-blood programs has no bounds.

[🏀]

Wow, that was a great piece from Gottlieb. He's earning more respect from me every year.

[Tugg Speedman]

You actually see this phenomenon with the ratings websites too.

Players who are recruited by the Dukes and North Carolina's often end up with more stars behind their name on those sites. It makes the sites look more credible when Duke, North Carolina, and Kentucky get a ton of 5 star recruits.

Same for football. LSU, Alabama, Texas, Oklahoma, Notre Dame, etc. They are completely exposed and embarrassed when Auburn beats Oregon to win the National Championship and TCU is right there with them.

[🏀]

You actually see this phenomenon with the ratings websites too.

Players who are recruited by the Dukes and North Carolina's often end up with more stars behind their name on those sites. It makes the sites look more credible when Duke, North Carolina, and Kentucky get a ton of 5 star recruits.

Same for football. LSU, Alabama, Texas, Oklahoma, Notre Dame, etc. They are completely exposed and embarrassed when Auburn beats Oregon to win the National Championship and TCU is right there with them.

Football much less though. There is a lot more money poured into the football side of recruiting sites than basketball. They are far more accurate and generally has less bias. Let's not forget that Auburn paid $150,000 to expose and embarrass Oregon.

[Tugg Speedman]

Lastly, you also see this with National POY selections.  See all the Duke and UNC players.  In recent years, A lot of them were spectacular busts in the NBA.  They are in bold.

It's suppose to be National Player of the year, not the best player between Duke and UNC.

----

1978 Butch Lee    Marquette    Guard    4 !Senior
1979    Larry Bird*    Indiana State    Forward    4 !Senior
1980    Mark Aguirre    DePaul    Forward    2 !Sophomore
1981    Ralph Sampson    Virginia    Center    2 !Sophomore
1982    Ralph Sampson (2)    Virginia    Center    3 !Junior
1983    Ralph Sampson (3)    Virginia    Center    4 !Senior
1984    Michael Jordan*    North Carolina    Guard    3 !Junior
1985    Patrick Ewing    Georgetown    Center    4 !Senior
1986    Johnny Dawkins    Duke    Guard    4 !Senior
1987 David Robinson*    Navy    Center    4 !Senior
1988    Danny Manning    Kansas    Forward    4 !Senior
1989    Danny Ferry    Duke    Forward    4 !Senior
1990 Lionel Simmons    La Salle    Forward    4 !Senior
1991    Johnson    UNLV    Forward    4 !Senior
1992    Christian Laettner    Duke    Forward    4 !Senior
1993    Calbert Cheaney    Indiana    Guard    4 !Senior
1994    GlennGlenn Robinson    Purdue    Forward    4 !Senior
1995    Joe Smith    Maryland    Forward    4 !Senior
1996    Marcus Camby    Massachusetts    Center    3 !Junior
1997    Tim Duncan    Wake Forest    Center    4 !Senior
1998    Antawn Jamison    North Carolina    Forward    3 !Junior
1999    Elton Brand    Duke    Forward    2 !Sophomore
2000    Kenyon Martin    Cincinnati    Forward    4 !Senior
2001    Shane Battier    Duke    Forward    4 !Senior
2002    Jason Williams    Duke    Guard    3 !Junior
2003    T. J. Ford    Texas    Guard    2 !Sophomore
2004    Jameer Nelson    Saint Joseph's    Guard    4 !Senior
2005    Andrew Bogut    Utah    Center    2 !Sophomore
2006    J. J. Redick    Duke    Guard    4 !Senior[3]
2007    Kevin Durant    Texas    Forward    1 !Freshman[4]
2008    Tyler Hansbrough    North Carolina    Forward    3 !Junior[5]
2009    Blake Griffin    Oklahoma    Forward    2 !Sophomore[6]
2010    Evan Turner    Ohio State    Forward    3 !Junior[7]

[ChicosBailBonds]

This has been going on forever, Doug finally gets it now?  Old News!

It's like he stole last year's Goodman article, but when you consider how good Doug has been at stealing things in the past (credit cards, etc) it shouldn't be a surprise.

http://community.foxsports.com/goodmanonfox/blog/2010/02/25/mcdonalds_all-american_selection_committee_a_complete_joke


http://www.scacchoops.com/tt_NewsBreaker_External.asp?NB=3291

http://www.yardbarker.com/blog/jeffgoodman/mcdonalds_all_american_selection_committee_still_needs_work/4141986

[🏀]

Lastly, you also see this with National POY selections.  See all the Duke and UNC players.  In recent years, A lot of them were spectacular busts in the NBA.  They are in bold.

It's suppose to be National Player of the year, not the best player between Duke and UNC.

----

1978 Butch Lee    Marquette    Guard    4 !Senior
1979    Larry Bird*    Indiana State    Forward    4 !Senior
1980    Mark Aguirre    DePaul    Forward    2 !Sophomore
1981    Ralph Sampson    Virginia    Center    2 !Sophomore
1982    Ralph Sampson (2)    Virginia    Center    3 !Junior
1983    Ralph Sampson (3)    Virginia    Center    4 !Senior
1984    Michael Jordan*    North Carolina    Guard    3 !Junior
1985    Patrick Ewing    Georgetown    Center    4 !Senior
1986    Johnny Dawkins    Duke    Guard    4 !Senior
1987 David Robinson*    Navy    Center    4 !Senior
1988    Danny Manning    Kansas    Forward    4 !Senior
1989    Danny Ferry    Duke    Forward    4 !Senior
1990 Lionel Simmons    La Salle    Forward    4 !Senior
1991    Johnson    UNLV    Forward    4 !Senior
1992    Christian Laettner    Duke    Forward    4 !Senior
1993    Calbert Cheaney    Indiana    Guard    4 !Senior
1994    GlennGlenn Robinson    Purdue    Forward    4 !Senior
1995    Joe Smith    Maryland    Forward    4 !Senior
1996    Marcus Camby    Massachusetts    Center    3 !Junior
1997    Tim Duncan    Wake Forest    Center    4 !Senior
1998    Antawn Jamison    North Carolina    Forward    3 !Junior
1999    Elton Brand    Duke    Forward    2 !Sophomore
2000    Kenyon Martin    Cincinnati    Forward    4 !Senior
2001    Shane Battier    Duke    Forward    4 !Senior
2002    Jason Williams    Duke    Guard    3 !Junior
2003    T. J. Ford    Texas    Guard    2 !Sophomore
2004    Jameer Nelson    Saint Joseph's    Guard    4 !Senior
2005    Andrew Bogut    Utah    Center    2 !Sophomore
2006    J. J. Redick    Duke    Guard    4 !Senior[3]
2007    Kevin Durant    Texas    Forward    1 !Freshman[4]
2008    Tyler Hansbrough    North Carolina    Forward    3 !Junior[5]
2009    Blake Griffin    Oklahoma    Forward    2 !Sophomore[6]
2010    Evan Turner    Ohio State    Forward    3 !Junior[7]

I'd be hard to argue that those guys didn't deserve the award though, good college players.

[Tugg Speedman]

Only because they are on ESPN 23 times and Dickie V and the rest of the UNC/DUKE apparatchik hype them for weeks and weeks. 

They were good, but not POY.  2006 was JJ Redick?  Nope, should have been Brandon Roy.  But Washington is not Duke so the better player does not win.

2008 was Tyler Hansborough?  Nope, should have been Derrick Rose hands down.  This was laughable.

[🏀]

Only because they are on ESPN 23 times and Dickie V and the rest of the UNC/DUKE apparatchik hype them for weeks and weeks. 

They were good, but not POY.  2006 was JJ Redick?  Nope, should have been Brandon Roy.  But Washington is not Duke so the better player does not win.

2008 was Tyler Hansborough?  Nope, should have been Derrick Rose hands down.  This was laughable.

Sure, Roy could have been POY.

Brandon Roy averaged 20.2/5.6/4.1
Redick averaged 26.8/2.0/2.6

They are both in the conversation. I believe Morrison probably had the best year though.

Rose averaged 14.9/4.5/4.7
Hansborough averaged 20.7/8.1/1.0.

I had no doubt that Hansborough deserved the award.

[#MUBB]

Exactly. He makes a great point. My friends brother who is a Senior in Illinois got nominated for the McDonald's All-American. Obviously he won't make the final cut, but he is recognized for being a great player in Illinois. Overall, the ranking, nomination, etc. doesn't mean crap. It's all about recognition. The true D1 player emerge as the years go by.

[77ncaachamps]

Is Dougie partially taking out his frustration of not making the McD AA team when he was a senior - though he was named "Best in the West" by a SoCal newspaper?

[Tugg Speedman]

If Wilson or Blue signed with Duke, UNC or Kentucky, would they have been McDoanld's AA?

[GGGG]

Only because they are on ESPN 23 times and Dickie V and the rest of the UNC/DUKE apparatchik hype them for weeks and weeks. 

Only four...those since 2001...have been in the ESPN hype era.  The only one I disagree with is Hansborough.  I also would have picked Morrison over Reddick, but Reddick was deservedly in the discussion.  IOW, not a *bad* pick by any means. 

[brewcity77]

Rose averaged 14.9/4.5/4.7
Hansborough averaged 20.7/8.1/1.0.

I had no doubt that Hansborough deserved the award.

Nope, that was 2009. Hansborough won the award as a junior in 2008. Averaged 22.6 ppg and 10.2 rpg. Probably the best argument against him was Michael Beasley, who averaged 26.2 ppg and 12.3 rpg.

Usually I'm on board with AnotherMU84, but saying Rose is laughable, and I'm a Bulls fan. He was clearly a very good player, and had tons of upside, but he didn't belong anywhere near the discussion with Hansborough and Beasley. He wasn't even a second-team All-American!

Similar with Brandon Roy. Very good player, but that race was always deservedly between Redick and Morrison. Roy was a deserving All-American, and wouldn't have been an awful choice, but I think the general consensus was that he wasn't even the best player in his own state. Morrison averaged 28.1 ppg (28.5 against high-majors) and 5.5 rpg. He was the closest competition for Redick.

And frankly, what does it matter if the guys were huge busts in the NBA? Last time I checked, the National POY is an award for the best college player, not the best NBA prospect.

[MU B2002]

And really did Rose even play college ball?

[Tugg Speedman]

The POY is the year is the best player on Duke/UNC unless someone else makes a better argument.

So, this year's POY is Nolan Smith unless/until Jimmer or Kimba make a better argument.

Does anyone disagree with this?

[GGGG]

The POY is the year is the best player on Duke/UNC unless someone else makes a better argument.

So, this year's POY is Nolan Smith unless/until Jimmer or Kimba make a better argument.

Does anyone disagree with this?

Nolan Smith deserves to be in the argument.  Fantastic player.

[Tugg Speedman]

yes, but if Jimmer was at Duke and Nolan Smith played for BYU, the voting would be over and Jimmer would win.

But Smith gets extra consideration because of the Duke bias.

[mug644]

While I do think there is a tendency towards bias for guys from the big name teams, I've always thought it had something to do with how well their team does. Hansbrough's teams did pretty well, and Duke's always do too. Roy, Beasley, and Rose (though his Memphis team made the finals, right?) were incredible players but their teams didn't win it all.

Then again, this thread seems to have shifted from what makes guys McD's AA to college players of the year. Very, very different things.

[Tugg Speedman]

you're correct ... does anyone disagree with Gottlieb about the McDonald's AA?

[Eye]

The POY is the year is the best player on Duke/UNC unless someone else makes a better argument.

So, this year's POY is Nolan Smith unless/until Jimmer or Kimba make a better argument.

Does anyone disagree with this?

I think Sullinger should be the POY right now and that Nolan Smith is actually a touch undervalued nationally.