Buzz, Self, Barnes, Pearl, etc all withdraw from Double Pump brothers event...

[ChicosBailBonds]

This is going to get interesting...looks like the NCAA is definitely telling teams and coaches to avoid these events in the future, enough that is scared off a lot of coaches this year (don't blame the coaches one bit)

http://ncaabasketball.fanhouse.com/2010/08/14/cowboys-david-and-dana-pump-take-stand-against-ncaa/

[77ncaachamps]

Don't walk away, RUN!

[Lennys Tap]

This is going to get interesting...looks like the NCAA is definitely telling teams and coaches to avoid these events in the future, enough that is scared off a lot of coaches this year (don't blame the coaches one bit)

http://ncaabasketball.fanhouse.com/2010/08/14/cowboys-david-and-dana-pump-take-stand-against-ncaa/

So a bunch of coaches didn't honor their committments and you're happy about it? Interesting.

[bilsu]

So a bunch of coaches didn't honor their committments and you're happy about it? Interesting.

You must be an absolute idiot, if you think these coaches should have kept their commitments to this after the NCAA put out a warning.

[Marquette84]

Interesting choice of words from this article:

"They also ran a search firm -- ChampSearch -- for universities conducting athletic director and basketball coach searches, until the NCAA determined last year it was illegal for schools to use their service, David Pump said."

Maybe some of our posters were a bit misplaced in their argument that using the word illegal to describe actions banned by the NCAA is "without merit."

Maybe its more common than they want to admit.

So a bunch of coaches didn't honor their committments and you're happy about it? Interesting.

The real question is why those coaches made a commitment to the Pump brothers in the first place.

[SacWarrior]

You must be an absolute idiot, if you think these coaches should have kept their commitments to this after the NCAA put out a warning.

This is why teal text sometimes works better I guess...

[Blackhat]

Isn't it a cancer research charity?   I'd be all for that, maybe NCAA doesn't want anyone cutting into coaches vs. cancer money?

 Until they come out and give reasons you can assume the worst or best of the NCAA's intentions. 

[mhendrick]

I guess Caliparri and Pitino were very lonely

[ChicosBailBonds]

So a bunch of coaches didn't honor their committments and you're happy about it? Interesting.

Did they sign a NLI or contract to be there....interesting.   

Keep the comedy coming Lenny.

[ChicosBailBonds]

This is why teal text sometimes works better I guess...

Except he wasn't being sarcastic...I'm a psychic like Lenny and know his absolute intentions of everything he writes.

[TallTitan34]

To this day, there are still some people on this board that actually think it's no big deal to not honor commitments.  Strange to say the least.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Talltitan...the NCAA said don't go.  Really, are you suggesting he should go against what the governing agency says? 

But you guys are right, revoking a NLI in July when the kid did nothing wrong (had the test scores, had the grades, no problems with the law) is the same as not going to a coaching seminar that the NCAA tells you not to go to.

Definitely parallels.

[GGGG]

Interesting choice of words from this article:

"They also ran a search firm -- ChampSearch -- for universities conducting athletic director and basketball coach searches, until the NCAA determined last year it was illegal for schools to use their service, David Pump said."

Maybe some of our posters were a bit misplaced in their argument that using the word illegal to describe actions banned by the NCAA is "without merit."

Maybe its more common than they want to admit.

Or maybe most of us would know not to go to David Pump for legal advice.

Seriously, you can't change the definition of words you know.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Incidentally, note how the folks that keep saying the Newbill thing is beating a dead horse are some of the same that brought it up in this thread.  Oh the irony.

[Lennys Tap]

You must be an absolute idiot, if you think these coaches should have kept their commitments to this after the NCAA put out a warning.

Surveys show a high correlation between the humorless and name callers.

[Dr. Blackheart]

But you guys are right, revoking a NLI in July when the kid did nothing wrong (had the test scores, had the grades, no problems with the law) is the same as not going to a coaching seminar that the NCAA tells you not to go to.

Definitely parallels.

For the record, the NLI was not "revoked". Marquette asked Newbill to sign a release--which he did--so he could have time to land as he did as Miss St.  Again, this is an allowable practice under NCAA and BE guidelines where over signing is allowed.  MU could have waited until then end of the summer to decide who was odd man out, which would have sent us all over the edge.  It is pretty clear Buzz soured on Newbill right after he signed his LOI for a number on reasons--unstated publically but can be mostly inferred.  

Chicos, on the Pump Brothers, they are obviously overt with their influence peddling...while WWW is UTR.  Since you worked in various AD's, I assume you have plenty of stories of the circuit.  How does it all work and come together?  Where is the grey areas and when are they crossed?  Will the NCAA ever have enough backbone to take on the shoe companies?  I just finished Feinstein's "Last Dance" book and he basically said the NCAA regulators were powerless and clueless.  Would love your perspective.  

[Lennys Tap]

Incidentally, note how the folks that keep saying the Newbill thing is beating a dead horse are some of the same that brought it up in this thread.  Oh the irony.

There is absolutely nothing ironic about poking a little fun at sanctimony.

[77fan88warrior]

These guys smell of trouble. I was at a party they were throwing in NY 2 years ago during Coaches versus Cancer. I heard about ticket scalping, acting as agents and involvement with Addidas. The kicker was that Jim Harrick was there. Enough said?

[ChicosBailBonds]

For the record, the NLI was not "revoked". Marquette asked Newbill to sign a release--which he did--so he could have time to land as he did as Miss St.  Again, this is an allowable practice under NCAA and BE guidelines where over signing is allowed.  MU could have waited until then end of the summer to decide who was odd man out, which would have sent us all over the edge.  It is pretty clear Buzz soured on Newbill right after he signed his LOI for a number on reasons--unstated publically but can be mostly inferred.  

Chicos, on the Pump Brothers, they are obviously overt with their influence peddling...while WWW is UTR.  Since you worked in various AD's, I assume you have plenty of stories of the circuit.  How does it all work and come together?  Where is the grey areas and when are they crossed?  Will the NCAA ever have enough backbone to take on the shoe companies?  I just finished Feinstein's "Last Dance" book and he basically said the NCAA regulators were powerless and clueless.  Would love your perspective.  

We'll agree to disagree.  They weren't going to honor it because they were giving his scholarship to someone else, essentially pulling his off the table.....they revoked it

REVOKE:   transitive verb 1 : to annul by recalling or taking back : rescind <revoke a will>
2 : to bring or call back



On your other question, too many things have changed since I was there.  At IU, Knight didn't even recruit, he left it to his assistants and only became involved to close the deal if it was even needed.  The AAU scene was much different than it is today. At KU, I was only an intern, no exposure to that part of the business.   On the MU front, again, AAU was a lot different and many of these groups (Pump Bros, etc) didn't have the power then that they do today. 

I will say this, some of the things we are doing now we (the department) blasted other schools for 10-15 years ago.  So there is definitely some hypocrisy going on in terms of how we've changed.  Now, some will say "good, we're a lot better now than 10-15 years ago"....they would be right.  But everything comes at a price.  There are a lot of ways to win in college hoops and I would have preferred the path with fewer landmines that can bite us in the ass, but it is what it is.

[GOMU1104]

Chicos, on the Pump Brothers, they are obviously overt with their influence peddling...while WWW is UTR.  Since you worked in various AD's, I assume you have plenty of stories of the circuit.  How does it all work and come together?  Where is the grey areas and when are they crossed?  Will the NCAA ever have enough backbone to take on the shoe companies?  I just finished Feinstein's "Last Dance" book and he basically said the NCAA regulators were powerless and clueless.  Would love your perspective.  

If you want to get a grasp of how things worked in the late 1990s/early 2000s in regards to the influence of shoe companies, read "Sole Influence" by Dan Wetzel. 



Some other examples of how things go down:

-Subscribing to subscription scouting services that are run by someone connected to a recruit.

-Paying coaches/mentors close to a recruit to speak at a camp or booster event.

-Paying coaches connected to recruits to coach at summer camps (although this was recently outlawed)

-Season tickets for basketball/football

-Paying coaches to work as "consultants" of the program.

-"Donations" directly to the AAU program...which is often set up as a non-profit, and donations to non-profits may be kept confidential.

-And who can forget the time-honored tradition of the "hundred dollar handshake."


Recent article from Gary Parrish, explaining the influence of agents:

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/story/13742583/sad-truth-college-hoops-coaches-need-player-agents?tag=coverlist_footer;coverlist_photo_content

[Benny B]

There is absolutely nothing ironic about poking a little fun at sanctimony.

No there's not, unless you don't mean to poke fun.  And who doesn't just love to point out the sanctimony here?  Not me.

[Pakuni]

Did they sign a NLI or contract to be there....interesting.   

Keep the comedy coming Lenny.

So you're fine with people breaking oral contracts, just not incomplete written ones?
Glad to know your moral outrage over such things only extends to agreements involving ink and dead tree matter.

[Benny B]

Any hoo..... let's not start a new dead horse thread.

Besides, has anyone seen either the NLI from DJN or the RSVP to Pump-a-Palooza from Buzz?  Do they even exist?

[ChicosBailBonds]

So you're fine with people breaking oral contracts, just not incomplete written ones?
Glad to know your moral outrage over such things only extends to agreements involving ink and dead tree matter.

You and Lenny should open up a comedy club.  You could call it "Moral Equivalencies"  and stand up all day making absurd comparisons.  I'll bet it would be a hoot.

[Lennys Tap]

We'll agree to disagree.  They weren't going to honor it because they were giving his scholarship to someone else, essentially pulling his off the table.....they revoked it

REVOKE:   transitive verb 1 : to annul by recalling or taking back : rescind <revoke a will>
2 : to bring or call back



On your other question, too many things have changed since I was there.  At IU, Knight didn't even recruit, he left it to his assistants and only became involved to close the deal if it was even needed.  The AAU scene was much different than it is today. At KU, I was only an intern, no exposure to that part of the business.   On the MU front, again, AAU was a lot different and many of these groups (Pump Bros, etc) didn't have the power then that they do today. 

I will say this, some of the things we are doing now we (the department) blasted other schools for 10-15 years ago.  So there is definitely some hypocrisy going on in terms of how we've changed.  Now, some will say "good, we're a lot better now than 10-15 years ago"....they would be right.  But everything comes at a price.  There are a lot of ways to win in college hoops and I would have preferred the path with fewer landmines that can bite us in the ass, but it is what it is.

It's common for unsuccessful programs to pontificate. It's the old we're inferior on the playing field, so we'll CLAIM either moral or intellectual superiority off of it. Some truth with the truly rogue programs but mostly sour grapes and excuse making. When Michigan would be beating Northwestern 49-3 in the 4th quarter the NU faithful would chant "That's alright, that's ok, you're gonna work for us someday". The Michigan fans would just laugh and point at the scoreboard.