D Wilson. Praise and what?

[GGGG]

Said the smallest of the small. Indeed. Irony. Grow up.

More irony.

[NersEllenson]

Guess we're going to have to agree to disagree.

I agree that Derrick has offensive limitations, but his offensive limitations don't prevent Todd, Jake or Jamil from making open jumpers.  They don't force Davante to shoot 20-foot set shots. And they don't force Davante and Jamil to lose their cool.

Derrick did his job today.  If we could say that about any one of Jake, Todd, Jamil or Chris, we'd be celebrating our first real road win.

I thought Jake, Todd, Jamil and Chris were awful today.  Thought Derrick played his best game of the year too.  And we still lost - to a very average Butler team.  Gardner and Jamil have regressed.  Todd seems to be the same player as last year.  Why no progression in Todd's case, and actual regression in the case of Jamil and Gardner?

I challenge you to watch virtually any Top 25 team, and watch their PG.  Their PG will look so radically different from Derrick, perhaps that will bring it in to shape.  The single most important aspect a PG can bring to his team, is the ability to make the players around him better.  In my view, Derrick greatly hampers those around him, due to his offensive limitations.  Now, it very well could be that rignt NOW Dawson wouldn't do any better - yet Buzz has tried all kinds of lineup hijinks, (other than greatly reducing Derrick and Jake's minutes), and we continue to scuffle.  Playing Otule and Ox together aint the answer either!  Need more Burton, more Mayo, more Dawson - and less Derrick, Jake, and Otule in order to improve.

But, Buzz loves Otule and Derrick...there his guys on this year's team, so I doubt we'll see much change...including our winning percentage.  So, I'd rather see some radical changes made, to see if it produces radically different results - and in the process, you get some valuable game experience for the future of your program..

[GGGG]

Awesome.

Cue keefe brag points in 3....2....1....

[keefe]

More irony.

"I know you are but what am I?"

Grow the f uck up

[GGGG]

"I know you are but what am I?"

Grow the f uck up

Still more irony. 

[NersEllenson]

Still more irony. 

Given Keefe's track record and accomplishments in life - pretty sure maturity isn't lacking on his part.  It's quite evident to most non-biased around here - Keefe is a highly intelligent, and accomplished individual.  His below point was spot on....

All anyone is posting is their opinion. Nothing more. You seem to be suggesting that Sultan has fact, unlike the others. Or intelligence, unlike the others. Please.  People are entitled to post their views. Just because you disagree doesn't make them "stupid."

People who try to dictate the conversation are small, silly, and pathetic in a very real way. Grow up. 

[GGGG]

Given Keefe's track record and accomplishments in life - pretty sure maturity isn't lacking on his part.  It's quite evident to most non-biased around here - Keefe is a highly intelligent, and accomplished individual.

Yep.  Just ask him. 

[MU82]

When Derrick scored with 16:15 left to put us up 40-28, I turned to my wife and said he and Davante -- who looked very into the game up to that point -- were the stars of the game. Derrick was especially impressive in that he not only was having one of his best offensive games but also was shutting down Dunham.

But then everything changed. Butler adjusted its defense, stopped playing Davante 1-on-1. Started fronting him and, when necessary, bringing a second defender into the low post. And Derrick suddenly had no lanes. And Marquette started milking the clock down to the final seconds -- seemingly unintentionally, just couldn't adapt to Butler's increased defensive pressure. All too often, the ball was in Derrick's hands when the clock was ticking down ... and even Derrick's biggest defenders on Scoop and elsewhere know he is not the best guy to have the ball in a score-or-else situation.

It's not Derrick's fault he played 40 minutes, but he certainly seemed to wear down as the game went on. Dunham started putting the ball on the floor and driving around him and also got a couple open looks from the outside. So not only was Derrick having trouble on O, he no longer was the defensive stopper.

We had a 40-28 lead with 16:15 to go. Eleven minutes later, the score was tied at 44. Four points in 11 freakin' minutes, and Derrick was the floor leader almost that entire time. A true high-major PG does something during a stretch like that to create for himself and for others; ours simply helps the opposing defense play 5-on-4.

So we saw Best of Derrick and also what some might call Typical Derrick, both for long stretches in the same game.

Having said all that, Thomas, Mayo and Otule were brutal the entire game, Jamil as usual disappeared for minutes on end, Gardner faded, Dawson brought absolutely nothing when given the chance and Buzz was outcoached in the second half.

Had even a couple guys stepped up and made a couple open jumpers, we'd have won and there's a decent chance that Derrick would have been the Stud of the Game.

But we lost, and it's certainly acceptable to criticize Derrick and pretty much everybody else involved in that travesty.

[Nevada233]

Derrick played far and away his most aggressive basketball game this season today, and what I feel was his best game of the year.  Of course 5 turnovers came with it - because he didn't play the same conservative brand of ball he's played all year.

Having said that, pretty confident the scouting report for MU is:  Don't let Gardner or Wilson beat us, we can live with Derrick Wilson shooting from the perimeter, and even from the paint - so long as Gardner and Wilson don't abuse us.

I still feel Derrick has major limitations as a PG, and wish Buzz would give Dawson legit stints of run, as even with Derrick playing well - this team lost to a very average Butler team.  The fact Derrick has zero offensive game from outside the paint, really makes life hell for Jamil, Davante, Jake and Todd.

Derrick played 40 minutes tonite.. hes returning as a senior too.. you can forget about seeing Dawson on the floor for anything other than an 1 minute breather for derrick... until he graduates or dawson goes to another school.. this is Derricks team win lose or lose some more.....

[77ncaachamps]

Lose with Derrick as a starter or lose with Derrick on the bench.

Personally, I prefer the latter. Derrick, though defensively tough, has no offensive nor cannot set up his man. Both negatives when it comes to running a team.

[ATL MU Warrior]

When Derrick scored with 16:15 left to put us up 40-28, I turned to my wife and said he and Davante -- who looked very into the game up to that point -- were the stars of the game. Derrick was especially impressive in that he not only was having one of his best offensive games but also was shutting down Dunham.

But then everything changed. Butler adjusted its defense, stopped playing Davante 1-on-1. Started fronting him and, when necessary, bringing a second defender into the low post. And Derrick suddenly had no lanes. And Marquette started milking the clock down to the final seconds -- seemingly unintentionally, just couldn't adapt to Butler's increased defensive pressure. All too often, the ball was in Derrick's hands when the clock was ticking down ... and even Derrick's biggest defenders on Scoop and elsewhere know he is not the best guy to have the ball in a score-or-else situation.

It's not Derrick's fault he played 40 minutes, but he certainly seemed to wear down as the game went on. Dunham started putting the ball on the floor and driving around him and also got a couple open looks from the outside. So not only was Derrick having trouble on O, he no longer was the defensive stopper.

We had a 40-28 lead with 16:15 to go. Eleven minutes later, the score was tied at 44. Four points in 11 freakin' minutes, and Derrick was the floor leader almost that entire time. A true high-major PG does something during a stretch like that to create for himself and for others; ours simply helps the opposing defense play 5-on-4.

So we saw Best of Derrick and also what some might call Typical Derrick, both for long stretches in the same game.

Having said all that, Thomas, Mayo and Otule were brutal the entire game, Jamil as usual disappeared for minutes on end, Gardner faded, Dawson brought absolutely nothing when given the chance and Buzz was outcoached in the second half.

Had even a couple guys stepped up and made a couple open jumpers, we'd have won and there's a decent chance that Derrick would have been the Stud of the Game.

But we lost, and it's certainly acceptable to criticize Derrick and pretty much everybody else involved in that travesty.

Didn't watch the game, so this is an honest question.  What adjustments did the coaches make during the stretch you describe above?  How many time outs did they call?  Did they just try the usual "play through it" strategy that Buzz seems to prefer? 

If what we are doing isn't working, it is the coaching staff's responsibility to make adjustments...whether in personnel or approach.  If they did and the players didn't execute, fine, blame Derrick all you want.  If they didn't make adjustments or those adjustments they did make didn't work, then blame should rest squarely with them. 

[madtownwarrior]

I challenge you to watch virtually any Top 25 team, and watch their PG.  Their PG will look so radically different from Derrick, perhaps that will bring it in to shape.  The single most important aspect a PG can bring to his team, is the ability to make the players around him better.


Yep - watched UWGB and Kiefer Sykes on Friday - made watching our PG play laughable/depressing.    And yes, even with Derrick had his best game of his career yesterday.   

[NersEllenson]

Didn't watch the game, so this is an honest question.  What adjustments did the coaches make during the stretch you describe above?  How many time outs did they call?  Did they just try the usual "play through it" strategy that Buzz seems to prefer? 

If what we are doing isn't working, it is the coaching staff's responsibility to make adjustments...whether in personnel or approach.  If they did and the players didn't execute, fine, blame Derrick all you want.  If they didn't make adjustments or those adjustments they did make didn't work, then blame should rest squarely with them. 

Since Buzz seems uber reluctant to send Derrick to the bench for 20+ minutes a game - it's Buzz's problem to continue to try to fix.  He's tried a number of "adjustments" already - none of which work.  Buzz's stubbornness at this point is costing the team.  You simply CANNOT have your starting back court, being the team's two WORST net negative contributors to the team, who also get the most, and 2nd most minutes.

Until the "adjustment" is made to send Derrick and Jake to the bench for 20+ minutes a game - nothing is going to change.  We are playing 5 on 4 with Derrick out there.  Buzz knows it, has said it, yet refuses to do anything about it.  It isn't Derrick's fault - it's not like he's going to say sorry Buzz - bench me for 20 minutes per game.  Taking a time out in the middle of a run as you suggest, isn't going to fix the problem.  We've had 18 games to analyze the results under Derrick's direction - we are 10-8 with NO good wins.

[GGGG]

I'm not exactly sure what options you think Buzz has.  Dawson is worse than Derrick.  Mayo is wildly inconsistent but still gets 20+ mpg.  JJJ was hurt, but hasn't shown much in games against decent teams.  Duane is redshirting.

So that leaves....what options exactly?

[NersEllenson]

I'm not exactly sure what options you think Buzz has.  Dawson is worse than Derrick.  Mayo is wildly inconsistent but still gets 20+ mpg.  JJJ was hurt, but hasn't shown much in games against decent teams.  Duane is redshirting.

So that leaves....what options exactly?

I think the jury is still WAY out on Dawson - and also believe he isn't worse than Derrick - it's hard to be much worse.  Throw the stats on Dawson out all you want - I'm not going to judge a guy who gets 2 minute stints of run, and then yanked.  Derrick has gotten the most minutes of anyone on the team through 18 games - we know what he is. 

Furthermore, you have a FRESHMAN in Dawson, compared to a guy Derrick who is almost 3 full years into the program - who have "produced" at roughly the same level - albeit the sample size for one guy totally irrelevant.

What I want to see is Dawson, Mayo, Burton, Jamil and Garnder out there for 8-10 minute stretches at a time - no substitutions - NONE..regardless of what mistakes may occur in those 8-10 minutes.  We are losing all of our games against decent competition anyway...why not radically change the lineup and see what the hell happens.  All I'm asking is replace Derrick, Jake and Otule with Dawson, Mayo and Burton - and see what you get - give it at least 2 games to get some legit results/conclusions.

[CTWarrior]

Derrick is nowhere near being this team's biggest problem.

We have shooters who can't shoot, seniors who can't lead...and we're worrying about the one guy who plays great defense, protects the ball...and is actually starting to hit some baskets?  Jeez...he had the best shooting percentage on the team today...and that includes Davante and Chris.

Part of the reason our shooters can't shoot is that they are never left alone.  Jake Thomas is never, ever left alone.  His man never doubles elsewhere because Derrick's man can always do it.  Watch games for other teams.  Heck watch us play defense.  Sometimes we leave the other team's best shooter to help in the lane.  That never happens for Jake because his man is instructed to never leave him under any circumstances because the help always comes from Derrick's man and Derrick doesn't make the defense pay.  It is even hard for us to screen for Jake because Derrick doesn't look inside and you have to screen two defenders to get Jake open.

[GGGG]

I think the jury is still WAY out on Dawson - and also believe he isn't worse than Derrick - it's hard to be much worse.  Throw the stats on Dawson out all you want - I'm not going to judge a guy who gets 2 minute stints of run, and then yanked.  Derrick has gotten the most minutes of anyone on the team through 18 games - we know what he is.  

Furthermore, you have a FRESHMAN in Dawson, compared to a guy Derrick who is almost 3 full years into the program - who have "produced" at roughly the same level - albeit the sample size for one guy totally irrelevant.

What I want to see is Dawson, Mayo, Burton, Jamil and Garnder out there for 8-10 minute stretches at a time - no substitutions - NONE..regardless of what mistakes may occur in those 8-10 minutes.  We are losing all of our games against decent competition anyway...why not radically change the lineup and see what the hell happens.  All I'm asking is replace Derrick, Jake and Otule with Dawson, Mayo and Burton - and see what you get - give it at least 2 games to get some legit results/conclusions.

Seriously...have you *watched* Dawson the past couple of games?  Did you see what happened when the freshmen got an extended run together against Seton Hall?

And Buzz sees them every day.  If Dawson can't beat Derrick in practice, what makes you think he'd be a better option during a real game?  The idea that he couldn't be worse is absurd.  You think Dawson could do what Derrick did yesterday?  LOL...good luck with that.

Good Mayo should be played 30+ minutes.  But Good Mayo doesn't show up for every game.  And I'm not blaming his attitude, etc like others.  I just think the guy is streaky.  

[willie warrior]

I think the jury is still WAY out on Dawson - and also believe he isn't worse than Derrick - it's hard to be much worse.  Throw the stats on Dawson out all you want - I'm not going to judge a guy who gets 2 minute stints of run, and then yanked.  Derrick has gotten the most minutes of anyone on the team through 18 games - we know what he is. 

Furthermore, you have a FRESHMAN in Dawson, compared to a guy Derrick who is almost 3 full years into the program - who have "produced" at roughly the same level - albeit the sample size for one guy totally irrelevant.

What I want to see is Dawson, Mayo, Burton, Jamil and Garnder out there for 8-10 minute stretches at a time - no substitutions - NONE..regardless of what mistakes may occur in those 8-10 minutes.  We are losing all of our games against decent competition anyway...why not radically change the lineup and see what the hell happens.  All I'm asking is replace Derrick, Jake and Otule with Dawson, Mayo and Burton - and see what you get - give it at least 2 games to get some legit results/conclusions.

You already have the answer to your concerns, Ners. According to Buzz, Derrick is a game changer and the best defensive player he has ever coached. Otule has been with Buzz forever, so he gets minutes. As far as Jamil, he is absolutely a terrible defender--gets blown by frequently, and then commits a brain fart foul. Mayo has his moments, but then disappears or plays terrible. Both he and Jamil are the two most inconsistent players on the team, but yet have a combined almost 8 years experience.

[4everwarriors]

I'm a huge Buzz Backer, but he got caught with his pants down on the whole point guard recruitin' thing. The only way Buzz woulda come out ahead this season would have been for Duane to have performed well at the 1 spot. Derrick simply is not a high major startin' playa. This season never had a chance with him runnin' the show. Some of his teammates are strugglin' 'cuz of Derrick's limitations.Not a slam to Derrick. Not his fault he's forced to be a starter. I'm certain he'll be a huge success in life. We all have our strengths and weaknesses. When Buzz was blowin' smoke up our asses as to how good Derrick is, I'm sure he was tryin' to encourage and motivate the playa.

[Wojo'sMojo]

Seriously...have you *watched* Dawson the past couple of games?  Did you see what happened when the freshmen got an extended run together against Seton Hall?

And Buzz sees them every day.  If Dawson can't beat Derrick in practice, what makes you think he'd be a better option during a real game?  The idea that he couldn't be worse is absurd.  You think Dawson could do what Derrick did yesterday?  LOL...good luck with that.

Good Mayo should be played 30+ minutes.  But Good Mayo doesn't show up for every game.  And I'm not blaming his attitude, etc like others.  I just think the guy is streaky.  

I think if Dawson plays 40 minutes he absolutely gets Derricks stats from yesterday. Let's keep in context that while a solid game for Derrick yesterday, it was nothing earth shattering. You really don't think Dawson could get 13 pts and 3 assists in 40 minutes? he might not be able to match the 5 to's though  

[NersEllenson]

Seriously...have you *watched* Dawson the past couple of games?  Did you see what happened when the freshmen got an extended run together against Seton Hall?

And Buzz sees them every day.  If Dawson can't beat Derrick in practice, what makes you think he'd be a better option during a real game?  The idea that he couldn't be worse is absurd.  You think Dawson could do what Derrick did yesterday?  LOL...good luck with that.

Good Mayo should be played 30+ minutes.  But Good Mayo doesn't show up for every game.  And I'm not blaming his attitude, etc like others.  I just think the guy is streaky.  

Of course I've watched Dawson the last couple of games....and for the 1000th time - it is not a relevant sample size to judge a player when he gets 2 minutes of action at a time.  You saw what happened against Xavier - when Buzz had no choice but to run Dawson at the point for 8-10 minute stretches - he and the team played well in a tough place to play against a good team.

Buzz is simply in love with Derrick Wilson, is strongly loyal to him, and doesn't appear to want to make the change.  WE aren't beating any good teams as it is, so there really is nothing to lose in giving a young player a good opportunity to get some game experience and grow - and perhaps along the way - you stumble into a diamond in the rough.  Derrick would be an ideal back up PG at the high major level.  Absolutely ideal - but he is not cut out to be a 30+ minute per game guy.  The evidence is clear.  Sadly, we are throwing away the senior year of our best post player in a long time - Gardner - due to Buzz's stubbornness.  

[GGGG]

I think if Dawson plays 40 minutes he absolutely gets Derricks stats from yesterday. Let's keep in context that while a solid game for Derrick yesterday, it was nothing earth shattering. You really don't think Dawson could get 13 pts and 3 assists in 40 minutes? he might not be able to match the 5 to's though  

Outside of hope stemming from desperation, I can't see one piece of evidence that Dawson would have been able to do what Derrick did.  I don't think he gets those points, and I certainly don't think he would play that type of defense.

And here's the deal...I don't particularly think Derrick is all that good.  BUT I don't think they have better options.  Dawson MIGHT be better when he is an upper classman...he MIGHT be better next year.  But he certainly isn't better right now.

[GGGG]

Of course I've watched Dawson the last couple of games....and for the 1000th time - it is not a relevant sample size to judge a player when he gets 2 minutes of action at a time.  You saw what happened against Xavier - when Buzz had no choice but to run Dawson at the point for 8-10 minute stretches - he and the team played well in a tough place to play against a good team.

Buzz is simply in love with Derrick Wilson, is strongly loyal to him, and doesn't appear to want to make the change.  WE aren't beating any good teams as it is, so there really is nothing to lose in giving a young player a good opportunity to get some game experience and grow - and perhaps along the way - you stumble into a diamond in the rough.  Derrick would be an ideal back up PG at the high major level.  Absolutely ideal - but he is not cut out to be a 30+ minute per game guy.  The evidence is clear.  Sadly, we are throwing away the senior year of our best post player in a long time - Gardner - due to Buzz's stubbornness. 

Buzz sees practice every day.  Buzz sees Derrick outplaying Dawson.  The idea that because *you* don't see Dawson play extended minutes, that *Buzz* can't draw a conclusion about his abilities, is just strange.

But instead of acknowledging that, you just trot out the "Buzz is being stubborn" excuse.

[Wojo'sMojo]

Outside of hope stemming from desperation, I can't see one piece of evidence that Dawson would have been able to do what Derrick did.  I don't think he gets those points, and I certainly don't think he would play that type of defense.

And here's the deal...I don't particularly think Derrick is all that good.  BUT I don't think they have better options.  Dawson MIGHT be better when he is an upper classman...he MIGHT be better next year.  But he certainly isn't better right now.
[/quote

Dawson had 6 pts and 2 assists against Xavier in 17 minutes of play...Not a math major, but it looks like he would've been on pace to beat Derricks numbers from yesterday had he played 40 minutes in that game. And he did this against Xavier, which is a better team than Butler. There is my evidence that he could have gotten Derricks stats yesterday if givin the chance.

[GGGG]

Both ends my friend.  Basketball is played on both ends.  Derrick held Butler's leading scorer down for about 3/4 of that game.

Too bad that Dawson couldn't step up to provide adequate back up minutes as he had in previous games.