Steve Taylor vs JP Tokoto

[WarhawkWarrior]

Not sure if you feel like I do.  I was pretty disappointed that Tokoto chose NC.
I feel a whole lot better now with Steve Taylor (ESPN Rank #64 vs Tokoto at #65).
  Way to go coaches.

[bilsu]

I was not disappointed he chose NC. His other choice would have been the Badgers. MU was long out of it, although some people here refused to recognize that.

[BCHoopster]

Tokoto is a fine athletic player that has along way to go with his outside shot, he will have a hard time starting
at NC just because the type of players they recruit.  I would never be surprised if he comes back to Milwaukee
just like Wilson did.  He is explosive, the hype for him and most of these kids is ridiculous.  Taylor reminds me of
Carlton Scott, good looking shot, long armed, needs some upper body strength.  Has 2 years to improve his game,
have no clue how his heart works, is he a warrior or squaw on the boards.  Playing time is there, taller than Tokoto.
For MU, Taylor was more important to MU than Tokoto was.

[Stretchdeltsig]

Agree with Hoopster.  Taylor is a great "get" for Marquette.

[Brewtown Andy]

Not sure if you feel like I do.  I was pretty disappointed that Tokoto chose NC.
I feel a whole lot better now with Steve Taylor (ESPN Rank #64 vs Tokoto at #65).
  Way to go coaches.

From watching the reactions on Twitter at the time, the reactions from Marquette and Wisconsin fans went generally like this:

Marquette fan: Aww, rats.  Good luck in Chapel Hill, JP!
Wisconsin fan: THAT TRAITOROUS *BLEEP* WHO DOES THAT *BLEEP* THINK HE IS, TURNING DOWN BO RYAN? HAVE FUN NEVER PLAYING.

If someone offers you a full ride to go to college in Chapel Hill, North Carolina, YOU TAKE IT.

[GGGG]

Tokoto is a fine athletic player that has along way to go with his outside shot, he will have a hard time

Well, that is what has knocked him down in the rankings.  In many ways, his story is similar to Jamil's.  They were ranked higher earlier in their HS careers mostly due to their athleticism.  They both fell in the rankings as the others caught up athletic-wise, and concerns developed over their outside shooting.

Reports seem to show that Jamil has worked on his game quite a bit and is going to be a real good addition for MU...JPT is going to need to work on his game similarly.

[BrewCity83]

Hmmmm...JPT must have really dropped.  Usually players' ratings go up after they commit to the powerhouses like UNC. 

[texaswarrior74]

Just came across this 360 tour of all of UNC's basketball facilities including their BB museum.

Not hard to understand why they recruit at another level then you add in the town of Chapel Hill and the amazing campus....tough for most mere mortals to compete with.

http://digitour360.com/unc/basketball/

[muhs03]

From watching the reactions on Twitter at the time, the reactions from Marquette and Wisconsin fans went generally like this:

Marquette fan: Aww, rats.  Good luck in Chapel Hill, JP!
Wisconsin fan: THAT TRAITOROUS *BLEEP* WHO DOES THAT *BLEEP* THINK HE IS, TURNING DOWN BO RYAN? HAVE FUN NEVER PLAYING.

If someone offers you a full ride to go to college in Chapel Hill, North Carolina, YOU TAKE IT.

Lame.

[muball]

great facilities and what u need to recruit the best

[NersEllenson]

Just came across this 360 tour of all of UNC's basketball facilities including their BB museum.

Not hard to understand why they recruit at another level then you add in the town of Chapel Hill and the amazing campus....tough for most mere mortals to compete with.

http://digitour360.com/unc/basketball/

Thanks for finding the UNC video.  Have you ever toured the Al McGuire Center?  While the Carolina facilities look very nice - MU's look equally as nice if not even slightly nicer.  Marquette's campus has come a LONG way in the last 15 years, and shows real well too.  Of course MU can't duplicate NC's weather, or even probably the number of pretty girls - but MU does have a very good image/facilities/campus/locker room/etc. to showcase.

What it doesn't have is  as many National Titles, and players put into the NBA - but for as many McDonald's All Americans and blue chips that select UNC - can't say that their conversion rate to NBA players or even National Championships is all that impressive.

[muhs03]

What it doesn't have is  as many National Titles, and players put into the NBA - but for as many McDonald's All Americans and blue chips that select UNC - can't say that their conversion rate to NBA players or even National Championships is all that impressive.

Coaches get way too much credit at times and are ridiculed too often at other times. So Coach K recruits Kyrie Irving. He spends 9 months on campus, gets injured early in the season, misses most of their games and becomes the No. 1 overall pick in the draft. Coach K is the greatest developer of talent ever! Duke or UNC or whoever recruits an AA and the kid plays for 4 years (instead of one) and doesnt make the NBA. Blame that on the coaches! Some kids peak in h.s.. Some kids develop slowly. Some kids figure it out. Some kids have a poor work ethic and in some cases dont even care and the coaches cant light a fire under their feet no matter what. I would never hold coaches accountable for the development of every player; it's really up to the player himself.

[wyzgy]

From watching the reactions on Twitter at the time, the reactions from Marquette and Wisconsin fans went generally like this:

Marquette fan: Aww, rats.  Good luck in Chapel Hill, JP!
Wisconsin fan: THAT TRAITOROUS *BLEEP* WHO DOES THAT *BLEEP* THINK HE IS, TURNING DOWN BO RYAN? HAVE FUN NEVER PLAYING.

If someone offers you a full ride to go to college in Chapel Hill, North Carolina, YOU TAKE IT.

i'm surprised they didn't throw temper protests, capital take-over, bang the bongos, reefer laden sit-ins, hunger strikes and demand our congressmen intervene.  ply williams with hookers and akahall-photos in compromising positions...pick up your pre-written doctors excuse on your way out

[Tugg Speedman]

I would never be surprised if he [Tokoto] comes back to Milwaukee just like Wilson did.

+1

I've been saying this for a while.  The fact that he was a top 10 player after his Sophomore year and after committing to UNC he drops to 66???  If he committed to UW or MU he would not be in the top 100 right now.  Based on this and the type of player UNC recruits, he's is not going seeing much playing time in Chapel Hill.

Is Tokoto going to take playing time away from Shabazz Muhammad (#1 ranked SF in the nation in his class of 2012), if he commits?  How about incoming freshman (2011 class) James McAdoo (PF with an overall ranked #2 in the nation) or Jackson Simmons (PF with an overall ranked #41 in the nation) if they commit?  What if Harrison Barnes stays?  How about current players John Henson or Reggie Bullock (first team Parade AA coming in)?  Who is he beating out for PT?  I say none of them right now.

So, I have the odds at 50/50 that he transfers after his freshmen year to either UW or MU (if he wants to be closer to home).

Same thing holds true for Bronson Koenig was well (now ranked #57 as a PG).  UNC will have three top 10 PGs in the house before he arrives.  Hope he likes running the practice squad.

[TedBaxter]

.

[4everwarriors]

On the contrary, I'm figurin' Tokoto and Koenig will be very good Tarheels. Both appear to have their stuff together, both on and off the court.

[Sharpie]

I'd like to see both of them do well. My money is on Koenig as better player after 4 years. Only time wil tell. Any player going to unc is going to have a tough time seeing the court especially players that aren't top 25 caliber type players. Just my two cents.

[bilsu]

The thing about North Carolina is you will not be burried behind the players in front of you for long. The good ones leave early. However, you still have to worry about who is coming in behind you.

[Pakuni]

FWIW, in the latest The Sporting News, Mike DeCourcy has a story about the July AAU circuit/evaluation period and in that, he rates Steve Taylor as the most underrated recruit out there (of any class, not just '12).

[wadesworld]

On the contrary, I'm figurin' Tokoto and Koenig will be very good Tarheels. Both appear to have their stuff together, both on and off the court.

I agree with this.  If Roy likes them and wants them, then I'm going to go ahead and assume that there's a reason for that and they're going to be very good players in college.  I will take Roy Williams' opinion over that of ESPN's recruiting person.  Buzz wanted Tokoto too.  And so did just about every college coach.  There's a reason for that.  I don't understand how anyone could expect him to transfer back in state after 1 year without knowing who's going to be at UNC, how he's going to develop both his senior year of high school and while at UNC, etc.  He has all the physical tools to be a stud.  He just has to put it all together.  My money's on Roy being able to help him do that.  And I hope he does.  I hope he's a star at UNC.  And if Koenig ends up there, I hope 2 Wisconsin kids lead them to a number National Championship games (only to lose to Marquette in those   ).

The thing about North Carolina is you will not be burried behind the players in front of you for long. The good ones leave early. However, you still have to worry about who is coming in behind you.

Going along with this, they also play very up tempo and sub A LOT.  Even if you are the 10th man on UNC's team, you are going to see the court.  I would doubt it would be an issue and would be shocked if Tokoto isn't getting pretty significant minutes by his sophomore year there.

Edit: players 1-9 on UNC last year all averaged 14.5 mpg or more.  Nobody averaged 30 or more.  Player 10 averaged just under 10 mpg.  That's how it is at UNC.  There aren't many scholarship players that get buried on their bench.

[Nukem2]

FWIW, in the latest The Sporting News, Mike DeCourcy has a story about the July AAU circuit/evaluation period and in that, he rates Steve Taylor as the most underrated recruit out there (of any class, not just '12).

Saw that too.  Think DeCourcy was talking about 2012.  But, whatever, nice to hear.

[Goose]

Hard to compare the guys. J.P. is a good kid and I believe he will do well at UNC. If unhappy there I would gladly welcome him home. Even though we lost him I am pulling for him big time.

[Pakuni]

Saw that too.  Think DeCourcy was talking about 2012.  But, whatever, nice to hear.

Pretty sure he wasn't, because in the same list he had the best overall prospect being a '13 kid (Taylor's HS teammate Jabari Parker), best shot blocker a '13 kid, and best shooter as a kid from the class of 2014.

[Stretchdeltsig]

JP has great potential.  Surprised he hasn't grown in two years.  Marquette's Anderson and Taylor may be better than JP.  Time will tell. 

[leever]

reefer laden sit-ins,

I'm pretty sure I did this a few times-----not to protest anything.  Just sayin....

[Nukem2]

Scout.com just revised its 2012 rankings.  Steve Taylor is now at #57 and JP Tokoto has dropped to #87.

[WarhawkWarrior]

Yes!

[Tugg Speedman]

Never said that Tokoto is not a good kid.  By all accounts he appears to be a great kid.  He'll be a great kid getting very little PT at UNC.

He is not better than Shabazz Muhammad (if he commits), James McAdoo, Jackson Simmons,  John Henson, Reggie Bullock or Harrison Barnes (if he stays).  

So where is the 87th best player in the country (new scout ranking) getting PT with these guys in front of him? Who on this list is he taking time away from?  I say none and he will average a few minutes a game freshman year, mostly clean up in blowouts.  Then I said this will cause him to transfer (I'm giving it 50/50 odds).

[Lennys Tap]

JP is like a stock that is falling in spite of a "buy" rating by Goldman Sachs (UNC). Usually not a good sign.

[ringout]

Tokota's drop is not a surprise if you watched him play last year.

[MUDPT]

What about Bobby Frasor?  He found a niche with UNC, with many more talented guys around him.  Just saying.

[Lennys Tap]

What about Bobby Frasor?  He found a niche with UNC, with many more talented guys around him.  Just saying.

Frasor's stock was upticking going into his senior year while JP's is falling. That said, Tokoto has the athletic ability to turn things around.

[Chicos' Buzz Scandal Countdown]

Never said that Tokoto is not a good kid.  By all accounts he appears to be a great kid.  He'll be a great kid getting very little PT at UNC.

He is not better than Shabazz Muhammad (if he commits), James McAdoo, Jackson Simmons,  John Henson, Reggie Bullock or Harrison Barnes (if he stays).  

So where is the 87th best player in the country (new scout ranking) getting PT with these guys in front of him? Who on this list is he taking time away from?  I say none and he will average a few minutes a game freshman year, mostly clean up in blowouts.  Then I said this will cause him to transfer (I'm giving it 50/50 odds).

Let's lose the assumption that PT is determined by rank coming out of high school. I take from your post that you think Roy Williams is taking into account what Rivals thinks about Tokoto when determining PT?

A coach studies the play of his teams opponents, his players and how to get them to work most effectively in his system. There's no way Rivals causes any change in that.

...unless the kid is actually becoming worse at basketball?

[ringout]

Let's lose the assumption that PT is determined by rank coming out of high school. I take from your post that you think Roy Williams is taking into account what Rivals thinks about Tokoto when determining PT?

A coach studies the play of his teams opponents, his players and how to get them to work most effectively in his system. There's no way Rivals causes any change in that.

...unless the kid is actually becoming worse at basketball?

Tokoto is an athletic freak, can jump out of the gym.  He does not have the body of a 4-5, but has always played inside.  He needs to develop a serious perimeter game to get any pt @ UNC.  He did not show any of that development last year, and based on his ranking falling during the AAU season, it looks as if he has not shown it yet.  Saw him play a game last year against a bunch of traditionals from Oconomowoc, and he did not look good.  He was very frustrated playing on the perimeter.  He even clanked a wide open dunk on a break.  Reminds me of Flavien Davis.  Very highly ranked as a soph but dropped like a stone when he topped out @ 6-5.  There may have been other issues with Davism, not sure, but....

[Tugg Speedman]

Let's lose the assumption that PT is determined by rank coming out of high school. I take from your post that you think Roy Williams is taking into account what Rivals thinks about Tokoto when determining PT?

A coach studies the play of his teams opponents, his players and how to get them to work most effectively in his system. There's no way Rivals causes any change in that.

...unless the kid is actually becoming worse at basketball?

No, I'm saying, and named, five players on the team that are better than him.  If they are indeed better, he gets very little playing time his freshman year.  And why he might develop into a decent senior, I'm betting he does not stay to find out.  50/50 he transfers.  (remember that last year was a record for transfers at the D1 level, including 4 from UNC)

My guess is that Roy saw the athleticism and is hoping he COULD turn into something.  Think of him as UNC's version of Carlton Christian.  

[avid1010]

My guess is that Roy saw the athleticism and is hoping he COULD turn into something.  Think of him as UNC's version of Carlton Christian.  

UNC doesn't have to take chances based on potential nearly as much as other schools do.  More often than not their dilemma is choosing the players they want.  I'm thinking he'll do what he what Roy and coaches tell him to do, work his tail off, and become a good player for NC. 

[ringout]

UNC doesn't have to take chances based on potential nearly as much as other schools do.  More often than not their dilemma is choosing the players they want.  I'm thinking he'll do what he what Roy and coaches tell him to do, work his tail off, and become a good player for NC. 

Not saying that can't or won't happen.  Just sayin that his game has not progressed at MFHS or AAU this year, and that doesn't bode well for a long productive career at UNC. 

I am not a JP hater or lover.  I don't mind if he succeeds at NC.  I'd lean toward hater if he was a BADger.  If he does have a productive career at NC, I'll tip my hat, because it means that he worked extremely hard to remake his game.  From the one article I read in the JS, it seems he is willing to work hard.  Hope he does well.

[wadesworld]

I agree with this.  If Roy likes them and wants them, then I'm going to go ahead and assume that there's a reason for that and they're going to be very good players in college.  I will take Roy Williams' opinion over that of ESPN's recruiting person.  Buzz wanted Tokoto too.  And so did just about every college coach.  There's a reason for that.  I don't understand how anyone could expect him to transfer back in state after 1 year without knowing who's going to be at UNC, how he's going to develop both his senior year of high school and while at UNC, etc.  He has all the physical tools to be a stud.  He just has to put it all together.  My money's on Roy being able to help him do that.  And I hope he does.  I hope he's a star at UNC.  And if Koenig ends up there, I hope 2 Wisconsin kids lead them to a number National Championship games (only to lose to Marquette in those   ).

Going along with this, they also play very up tempo and sub A LOT.  Even if you are the 10th man on UNC's team, you are going to see the court.  I would doubt it would be an issue and would be shocked if Tokoto isn't getting pretty significant minutes by his sophomore year there.

Edit: players 1-9 on UNC last year all averaged 14.5 mpg or more.  Nobody averaged 30 or more.  Player 10 averaged just under 10 mpg.  That's how it is at UNC.  There aren't many scholarship players that get buried on their bench.

I'm just going to quote myself here.  I am not a Tokoto lover or hater either.  I would love to see a Wisconsin high school kid go and make it big time at a program like UNC.

He does not have to be a top 5 player on UNC to see significant minutes.  Those who believe that have no idea how the UNC system works.  Again, NOBODY on their team averaged over 30 minutes per game last year.  And the 10th player on their team averaged 10 minutes per game.  The 9th averaged 15 minutes per game.  Again, he does not have to be the all star of UNC to see minutes.  He will be the 9th or 10th man as a freshman, and see 10-15 minutes.  Which is about 50% of what their star will see.  They play up tempo and they sub a lot.  Starting at UNC and being a bench player at UNC is much different than it was for last year's (and years before that) Marquette team.  They don't have 4 players all averaging over 30 minutes per game.  It just does not work like that.

And again, if every coach in the nation wanted the kid, including and especially Roy, I will trust that they believe he is a good player rather than obsessing over his fall in the rankings.

[Tugg Speedman]

JP is a good player.  Problem is you have to be a GREAT player to get significant PT at UNC.  He is not.

10th player in minutes on MU was Ewill at 7 minutes a game.  Ewill was a top 100 guy.  And where is he now?  Transferring.  I expect JP to be the 10th player at UNC, get about the same amount of PT and have the same outcome.

Roy makes mistakes, he had four transfers last year.  I hope JP is not a mistake but the fact is he is not progressing is worrisome.  (Don't give me the freakish athletic line, all UNC players are freakishly athletic)  Why do you think they want him to go to Oak Hill Academy in VA?  He is going backwards and it is a concern in Chapel Hill.

I hope be proves me wrong but I'm not as optimistic as you guys.

[Skatastrophy]

10th player in minutes on MU was Ewill at 7 minutes a game.  Ewill was a top 100 guy.  And where is he now?  Transferring.

EWill x-fering doesn't have anything to do with skill or PT. 

[GGGG]

EWill x-fering doesn't have anything to do with skill or PT. 

Of course it did.  Because players with more PT, who faced similar "circumstances" as EWill, are still around.

[Skatastrophy]

Of course it did.  Because players with more PT, who faced similar "circumstances" as EWill, are still around.

Incorrect.  It wasn't the athletic department's choice whether to keep him on schollie or not.  Same with Singleton.

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

Thanks for finding the UNC video.  Have you ever toured the Al McGuire Center?  While the Carolina facilities look very nice - MU's look equally as nice if not even slightly nicer.  Marquette's campus has come a LONG way in the last 15 years, and shows real well too.  Of course MU can't duplicate NC's weather, or even probably the number of pretty girls - but MU does have a very good image/facilities/campus/locker room/etc. to showcase.

Walking around reunion weekend I was stunned by how great campus looked and I was blown away by how great Milwaukee looked.  The shady area between the YMCA dorm and 3rd Ave Downtown was completely gone and downtown was buzzing with non-stop activity.  There were a town of downtown bars that I don't recall existing 20 yrs ago.  It was cool to see people having drinks at some huge Irish pub and then catching a shuttle bus to the Brewers game.

[muwarrior69]

Walking around reunion weekend I was stunned by how great campus looked and I was blown away by how great Milwaukee looked.  The shady area between the YMCA dorm and 3rd Ave Downtown was completely gone and downtown was buzzing with non-stop activity.  There were a town of downtown bars that I don't recall existing 20 yrs ago.  It was cool to see people having drinks at some huge Irish pub and then catching a shuttle bus to the Brewers game.

You should have seen the campus when I attended in the 60's. With all the urban renewal going on at the time it looked looked like a war zone. My last visit in '96 the campus looked spectacular from what I remember. Glad to hear its even better now.  Sorry for the off topic remark.

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

You should have seen the campus when I attended in the 60's. With all the urban renewal going on at the time it looked looked like a war zone. My last visit in '96 the campus looked spectacular from what I remember. Glad to hear its even better now.  Sorry for the off topic remark.

My last visit to Milwaukee was 10 yrs ago for my 10 yr.  It was improved then but the change from 2001 to 2011 is remarkable.

[BubbaWilliams]

Aw man, some of you old timers need to make a trip back to the Wauk, especially since MU is going to the final four this year 

[Skatastrophy]

Aw man, some of you old timers need to make a trip back to the Wauk

Waukesha?

[JWags85]

Waukesha?

Waukegan?

[BubbaWilliams]

Waukegan?

nope. milWAUKee. You guy's can take the mega bus. It starts at $1!

[avid1010]

Of course it did.  Because players with more PT, who faced similar "circumstances" as EWill, are still around.

i'm calling bs on that statement.

[GGGG]

You can call BS on it all you want....but I stand by the statement.

[DiaperDandy]

You can call BS on it all you want....but I stand by the statement.

That's a bold statement Cotton.....Let's see if it pays off!

[ringout]

You can call BS on it all you want....but I stand by the statement.

I'm with Sultan.  ewill has not developed his game to play BE minutes.

ewill and jp have some similarity.  Both played interior when younger, and had to develop perimeter games. 

[brewcity77]

Northstar Basketball's top 150 for 2012 just came out today, they also have Taylor ahead of Tokoto, though by a much wider margin.

http://blog.northstarbball.com/2011/08/17/northstar-basketball-post-july-2012-top-150.aspx

Notables
3) Mitch McGary
16) Anthony Bennett
30) Shaquille Cleare
40) Gabe York
42) Kris Dunn
54) Steve Taylor
60) Sam Dekker
69) Ray Lee
71) Wannah Bail
97) Zena Edosomwan
99) JP Tokoto
104) Philip Nolan
127) Jamal Ferguson
130) Zach Auguste

[avid1010]

I'm with Sultan.  ewill has not developed his game to play BE minutes.

ewill and jp have some similarity.  Both played interior when younger, and had to develop perimeter games. 

Unless I'm misunderstanding Sultan he was saying E-Will was booted because of certain "circumstances" and other player with the same certain "circumstances" were not booted because they were better players than E-Will.  To that I say BS...If I misunderstood Sultan I apologize.

[GGGG]

Unless I'm misunderstanding Sultan he was saying E-Will was booted because of certain "circumstances" and other player with the same certain "circumstances" were not booted because they were better players than E-Will.  To that I say BS...If I misunderstood Sultan I apologize.

No.  You got it right.  And I still stand by the statement.  But I wouldn't say "booted" as much as I would say "highly encouraged to leave."  They put a nice shiney bow on it, but that's what it was.

[avid1010]

No.  You got it right.  And I still stand by the statement.  But I wouldn't say "booted" as much as I would say "highly encouraged to leave."  They put a nice shiney bow on it, but that's what it was.

Source?

[Hards Alumni]

Source?

You won't get a source on this.

But I can corroborate his statement.

[GGGG]

I have multiple sources including a family member connected with the athletic department - but not specifically the basketball program.  (That is why I know nothing about recruiting.)  I have mentioned this before.

Remember I knew about the Halloween sexual harrassment incidents way back in December - I knew who a couple of the players involved were even back then.  And I also was told how this went down - talked about it over a few drinks this summer on a return trip to Milwaukee.  And believe me, this kind of crap happens everywhere.  (See...UW Madison...football team...)  I mean, look at Buzz's 2nd year when we were in need of an experienced point guard....like the return of the prodigal son.

And this isn't as untoward as I am making it out.  Some decisions had already been made so there wasn't a need to support certain players.  But if there were any lingering doubts about those decisions....well...those were erased.

I hear all sorts of stuff (and I doubt I am the only one that does.)  However, I have made it a policy only to bring stuff up when it is addressed specifically by this board and only when I can verify it.  So when Skat said what he did, I addressed it.

[Lennys Tap]

Sultan, when you refer to learning about "sexual assaults" in December are you talking about the Halloween night incident which MU determined to be sexual harrassment? Not trying to be a d$ck but the two are not nearly equivalent

[GGGG]

Lennys....yes and modified.  Sorry.

[WarhawkWarrior]

Back to the subject -- These kids are so often mislead into believing they are invincible, incredible and that making it to the NBA is a given.  They are coddled and believe they can make it on any team they choose.  Its crazy not to be a "big fish in the small pond" where minutes, exposure and success at an individual level can be a whole lot more fun than being a supporter at the end of the pine.  I wish JP success but believe he really put a limit on his chance to be in the limelight.

[Skatastrophy]

You won't get a source on this.

But I can corroborate his statement.

+1  EWill and Singleton were a package in that one.

Still, the athletic department didn't have a choice in the matter.  The OSD conduct committee had already taken care of business.  There was no "suggesting they transfer" about it.

[GGGG]

But Skat, there was intervention...or maybe a better word is "support,"...on behalf of the other two.  Both of whom will be receiving significant playing time this next year.  And some of EWill's decisions had already been made by that point anyway.  So while it is literally true that the athletic department had no choice, they had an influence on the outcome.  This is why I say that the ultimate decision had to do with playing time.

And you are correct that "suggesting they transfer" isn't the best phrase.

[Skatastrophy]

But Skat, there was intervention...or maybe a better word is "support,"...on behalf of the other two.  Both of whom will be receiving significant playing time this next year.  And some of EWill's decisions had already been made by that point anyway.  So while it is literally true that the athletic department had no choice, they had an influence on the outcome.  This is why I say that the ultimate decision had to do with playing time.

And you are correct that "suggesting they transfer" isn't the best phrase.

I gotcha, that makes sense