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27-10

Author Topic: Forgive us our Cintas.  (Read 11559 times)

rocky_warrior

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Re: Forgive us our Cintas.
« Reply #100 on: December 19, 2021, 05:50:47 PM »
Ok, but I'm just saying Kolek is doing what the coach wants.

Coach wants us to lose games?

MUCam

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Re: Forgive us our Cintas.
« Reply #101 on: December 19, 2021, 06:14:33 PM »

We're all entitled to our opinion but I disagree about the press.  There's a reason Odom was 8-9. 


I can’t believe that I am doing, but so far the only thing as consistent as nolongerwarriors whining incessantly about Shaka being hired is Muggsy whining about the press. Okay, and also maybe in that same consistency level is Kolek missing from three (I kid, I kid).

So let’s look at the “reason Odom was 8-9.”

1st Half - 15:55 left. Odom scores off a steal and direct drive. No press set up.

1st Half - 6:28 left. Long three point rebound. Xavier presses but cannot get a quick basket and gets into their half-court offense where Odom takes his man off the dribble and scores. No press set up.

1st half - 4:49 left. Long three point rebound. Marquette elects not to press and falls into half court defense. There is a non-shooting foul and Xavier in-bounds into half-court set. Odom again takes his man off the dribble and scores. No press set up.

1st half - 4:38. Marquette sloppy pass bringing it up in the back court. Odom steals and scores. No press set up.

1st half - 4:14. Marquette misses a bunny. Rebound to Xavier and Marquette falls back into half-court defense. Another non-shooting foul against Marquette. Inbounded to Odom who drives between three Marquette players and scores. No press set up.

2nd half - 14:52. Marquette sets up its press after made free throws. Xavier advances it to Odom who takes advantage before Marquette can settle into its half-court defense off the press and makes the basket. Press set up. Odom scores off Xavier beating the press.

2nd half - 10:49. Free throws for Odom. Importantly, this play comes off a Marquette miss and rebound. Xavier pushes it up court quickly and Odom drives drawing the foul (he lowered his shoulder in my opinion). No press set up.

2nd half - 10:10. Marquette makes a basket and sets up press. After Xavier crosses mid court, Marquette falls back into half-court defense. Odom quickly takes his man off the dribble and scores. Press set up. In my opinion, the score is not off “beating the press” but in half-court, though it’s quick.

2nd half - 9:24. Steal in back-court by Odom. Xavier resets and plays against Marquette’s half-court defense. Odom takes a (super ugly looking but uncontested) three point shot and misses (hallelujah). No press set up.

2nd half - 8:09. Marquette misses a three pointer leading to a long rebound and Xavier runout. Good Marquette defense forces Xavier to pull up and reset against Marquette’s half-court defense. Odom takes it from the top, drives and stops in the middle of the key and makes a tough floater (again). No press set up.

Muggsy is right; we are all entitled to our opinions. But let’s not use false memories and false facts to support those opinions.

Odom was 8-9. 22% of his attempts and makes came off of situations where Marquette set up the press. I would argue that only 12% of his makes came directly as a result of breakdown in the press.

So, now we know the “reason Odom was 8-9” and it had nothing to do with the press, and everything to do with (a) a super hot shooting night - he made several tough shots - and (b) the inability of our guys to defend Odom one on one in, believe it or not, our half-court set.

I have just taken way too much time on this - and had some fun with it over a glass of Balvenie mind you - but I simply could not take the “we need to adapt and not press” drum beat especially when buttressed by a false factual narrative any longer.

A couple final thoughts:

1. Muggsy I know you’re coming from the right place but maybe take up the practice of meditation. It will help slow you down. At times, even coming from a good place, the 100mph rants can become a bit unbearable. Slow down, sniff the flowers, and take a moment to take in the big picture, which for me right now, is a rejuvenated Marquette basketball world without the apathy of the Wojo era (and I really wanted him to succeed as I do all of MU’s players and coaches).

2. This team is going to be frustrating to watch this year. But they’re making progress. They are young, inexperienced, and have a lot of growing up to do, both physically and mentally. But to be within 1 with around 2 to play, away from home for the first time in conference, at maybe the Big East’s best team this year, is a testament to their continuing growth and their resolve. I like this group. It may not be this year (though emotionally I can be suckered into “believing”) but the building blocks are there.

Now, I will go back in my cave and hide. Perhaps a nice cognac will follow the scotch.

Newsdreams

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Re: Forgive us our Cintas.
« Reply #102 on: December 19, 2021, 07:31:18 PM »
Goal is National Championship

mileskishnish72

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Re: Forgive us our Cintas.
« Reply #103 on: December 19, 2021, 07:45:42 PM »
Nice recap, Cam.

MuggsyB

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Re: Forgive us our Cintas.
« Reply #104 on: December 19, 2021, 08:33:30 PM »
I can’t believe that I am doing, but so far the only thing as consistent as nolongerwarriors whining incessantly about Shaka being hired is Muggsy whining about the press. Okay, and also maybe in that same consistency level is Kolek missing from three (I kid, I kid).

So let’s look at the “reason Odom was 8-9.”

1st Half - 15:55 left. Odom scores off a steal and direct drive. No press set up.

1st Half - 6:28 left. Long three point rebound. Xavier presses but cannot get a quick basket and gets into their half-court offense where Odom takes his man off the dribble and scores. No press set up.

1st half - 4:49 left. Long three point rebound. Marquette elects not to press and falls into half court defense. There is a non-shooting foul and Xavier in-bounds into half-court set. Odom again takes his man off the dribble and scores. No press set up.

1st half - 4:38. Marquette sloppy pass bringing it up in the back court. Odom steals and scores. No press set up.

1st half - 4:14. Marquette misses a bunny. Rebound to Xavier and Marquette falls back into half-court defense. Another non-shooting foul against Marquette. Inbounded to Odom who drives between three Marquette players and scores. No press set up.

2nd half - 14:52. Marquette sets up its press after made free throws. Xavier advances it to Odom who takes advantage before Marquette can settle into its half-court defense off the press and makes the basket. Press set up. Odom scores off Xavier beating the press.

2nd half - 10:49. Free throws for Odom. Importantly, this play comes off a Marquette miss and rebound. Xavier pushes it up court quickly and Odom drives drawing the foul (he lowered his shoulder in my opinion). No press set up.

2nd half - 10:10. Marquette makes a basket and sets up press. After Xavier crosses mid court, Marquette falls back into half-court defense. Odom quickly takes his man off the dribble and scores. Press set up. In my opinion, the score is not off “beating the press” but in half-court, though it’s quick.

2nd half - 9:24. Steal in back-court by Odom. Xavier resets and plays against Marquette’s half-court defense. Odom takes a (super ugly looking but uncontested) three point shot and misses (hallelujah). No press set up.

2nd half - 8:09. Marquette misses a three pointer leading to a long rebound and Xavier runout. Good Marquette defense forces Xavier to pull up and reset against Marquette’s half-court defense. Odom takes it from the top, drives and stops in the middle of the key and makes a tough floater (again). No press set up.

Muggsy is right; we are all entitled to our opinions. But let’s not use false memories and false facts to support those opinions.

Odom was 8-9. 22% of his attempts and makes came off of situations where Marquette set up the press. I would argue that only 12% of his makes came directly as a result of breakdown in the press.

So, now we know the “reason Odom was 8-9” and it had nothing to do with the press, and everything to do with (a) a super hot shooting night - he made several tough shots - and (b) the inability of our guys to defend Odom one on one in, believe it or not, our half-court set.

I have just taken way too much time on this - and had some fun with it over a glass of Balvenie mind you - but I simply could not take the “we need to adapt and not press” drum beat especially when buttressed by a false factual narrative any longer.

A couple final thoughts:

1. Muggsy I know you’re coming from the right place but maybe take up the practice of meditation. It will help slow you down. At times, even coming from a good place, the 100mph rants can become a bit unbearable. Slow down, sniff the flowers, and take a moment to take in the big picture, which for me right now, is a rejuvenated Marquette basketball world without the apathy of the Wojo era (and I really wanted him to succeed as I do all of MU’s players and coaches).

2. This team is going to be frustrating to watch this year. But they’re making progress. They are young, inexperienced, and have a lot of growing up to do, both physically and mentally. But to be within 1 with around 2 to play, away from home for the first time in conference, at maybe the Big East’s best team this year, is a testament to their continuing growth and their resolve. I like this group. It may not be this year (though emotionally I can be suckered into “believing”) but the building blocks are there.

Now, I will go back in my cave and hide. Perhaps a nice cognac will follow the scotch.

Okay......I'll try to chill out a bit.

TVDirector

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Re: Forgive us our Cintas.
« Reply #105 on: December 19, 2021, 08:39:51 PM »
I came into this season expecting little-
New coach, new system and a slew of new guys. 
How many of they dudes played alongside each other before, save Justin, Greg and Oso?
Time to learn- time to gel- and time to get it all together.
The fact that we’ve been (mostly) competitive against ‘superior’ teams bodes well in the hunt to steal a few we shouldn’t.
There’s talent here- but I’m not discouraged or disappointed one bit.
If this was 2023, I might have a different assessment- not now however.

Newsdreams

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Re: Forgive us our Cintas.
« Reply #106 on: December 19, 2021, 09:02:19 PM »
I came into this season expecting little-
New coach, new system and a slew of new guys. 
How many of they dudes played alongside each other before, save Justin, Greg and Oso?
Time to learn- time to gel- and time to get it all together.
The fact that we’ve been (mostly) competitive against ‘superior’ teams bodes well in the hunt to steal a few we shouldn’t.
There’s talent here- but I’m not discouraged or disappointed one bit.
If this was 2023, I might have a different assessment- not now however.
+1
Goal is National Championship

MU82

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Re: Forgive us our Cintas.
« Reply #107 on: December 19, 2021, 09:21:41 PM »
I came into this season expecting little-
New coach, new system and a slew of new guys. 
How many of they dudes played alongside each other before, save Justin, Greg and Oso?
Time to learn- time to gel- and time to get it all together.
The fact that we’ve been (mostly) competitive against ‘superior’ teams bodes well in the hunt to steal a few we shouldn’t.
There’s talent here- but I’m not discouraged or disappointed one bit.
If this was 2023, I might have a different assessment- not now however.

Yep. I know they sound like excuses, but they're also facts.

Even guys who played a lot last season have different roles. Morsell averaged 9 points over 4 seasons; we need him to be more of a scorer. Kolek was an A-10 2-guard last season; we need him to be an efficient PG; when healthy, Lewis was at most our 3rd scoring option last season; now he's our lead guy. Elliott barely played for 4 years; now we need him to be our go-to shooter. And like you say, none of them had played together before now.

It's actually gone a little better than I expected ... and I'm a pretty optimistic Scooper.
“It’s not how white men fight.” - Tucker Carlson

MU82

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Re: Forgive us our Cintas.
« Reply #108 on: December 19, 2021, 09:28:01 PM »
I thought that most of the comments on the game thread were, more than usually, hyper critical. There were only a few that acknowledged our team's successes for much of the first half and the second half comeback. I get the right to criticize but come on guys-some of that sh*t was really over the top.

“It’s not how white men fight.” - Tucker Carlson

Shooter McGavin

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Re: Forgive us our Cintas.
« Reply #109 on: December 20, 2021, 11:17:46 AM »
Scooper: picks team to win 8 conference game.
Also scooper: shocked and furious when team loses conference game.

On the road no less to the best current NET team in the conference.  And weren’t outclassed athletically.

There is upside folks.  Analyze the season in thirds.  Not game by game.  First third we did well.  Second third started with a loss.  Lots of data to still gather.

Herman Cain

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Re: Forgive us our Cintas.
« Reply #110 on: December 20, 2021, 12:12:26 PM »
It was a game they had a chance to win and did not get done. X is much better team than MU and that is life at the moment. The fact they clawed back and had a chance to win is encouraging. The sloppy unforced turnovers is discouraging. All said and done, it was not a game that anyone with sanity thought we were going to win going into and they made it a competitive game. If they can be competitive at X, it gives me confidence they can be competitive in a lot of games.

I agree with this analysis
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