With Acker not playing is Buzz going to recruit another for this year or next?

[Silky]

Everyone knows you have OCD, so I am not going to keep going at this with you.  I am not even going to read your silly response.  Tom Crean was brought up because everyone knows your close association with him.  You ripped Buzz for supposedly running off players, when in fact that wasn't the case at all.  I'm pretty surprised really you don't know what went down.  Tom Crean had to come up because if you are going to take a shot at Buzz, your sick obsession with Crean needed to be brought into this.  If you think Buzz did something wrong, how can you defend the horrible actions of annually running a kid like Tom Crean did?  Just by saying other schools did it, so that makes it right?  Does Izzo do it?  Stanford?  UCLA?  Kansas?  Wisconsin?  Do they really do it like Tom Crean does? 
You have no idea what you are talking about.

Tom Crean had like 12 transfers.

Mickey Perry.  That is all you can come up with for UW?  3 years ago?  You really are grasping.

Really?   

I make a pair of posts that say NOTHING about Tom Crean, and here's how you respond:

"Big difference to what Buzz was doing with Hazel than what Tom Crean did.  Tom Crean clearly cut kids from the team that he didn't think were good  enough.  Almost every year Crean would cut someone for usually no cause.  Damien Saunders ring a bell?  Hazel was going to transfer regardless of what you want to make up."


So I replied and requested that you to comment on the fact that Villanova, Kansas, UNC, etc. all have transfers ever years.  I even said "Crean wasn't coaching those teams.  This is not a Tom Crean issue."  I guess I shouldn't have mentioned his name again, because you responded with:

What a joke.  You know how Tom Crean forced kids out every year.  There is no need to bring up Hazel's issues on here, but the fact is he decided to transfer on his own for more playing time.  The facts of Tom Crean's transfers are virtually all consistent.  Crean pushed them out almost every time.

As for Saunders, he was caught with dope.  That was Crean's out of a mess he created.   How you can defend him there is laughable.

Buzz Williams and Tom Crean are light years apart on how they deal with players.   Ask any of the players, not just Tom Crean, like you do.


You are clearly obsessed with Crean.

I'm talking about the need to accept the reality that if we want to be competitive with Duke, Villanova, UNC, Kansas, Louiville, UConn, etc, we have to accept transfers, just like they do

You keep responding with Tom Crean this and Tom Crean that.

I understand you don't like the man, but please, YOU are obsessed with him.  Please stop brining him up as the boogieman everytime you post. 




Mickey Perry.

[Tugg Speedman]

Does anyone have a list of 09 players still available that were BE types that Buzz would consider?

[JimmyBIToldYa]

Does anyone have a list of 09 players still available that were BE types that Buzz would consider?

we can all guess all we want, but only buzz has that list

[Marquette84]

You really are obsessed, man!

I asked you NOT to comment about Crean, and you just can't do it! 

Everyone knows you have OCD, so I am not going to keep going at this with you.  I am not even going to read your silly response.  Tom Crean was brought up because everyone knows your close association with him.  You ripped Buzz for supposedly running off players, when in fact that wasn't the case at all.  I'm pretty surprised really you don't know what went down.  Tom Crean had to come up because if you are going to take a shot at Buzz, your sick obsession with Crean needed to be brought into this.  If you think Buzz did something wrong, how can you defend the horrible actions of annually running a kid like Tom Crean did?  Just by saying other schools did it, so that makes it right?  Does Izzo do it?  Stanford?  UCLA?  Kansas?  Wisconsin?  Do they really do it like Tom Crean does? 
You have no idea what you are talking about.

Tom Crean[/b] had like 12 transfers.

First--YOU brought Tom Crean into this thread, not me.  This started when somebody incorrectly said that a banked scholarship gives you an extra the following year, and I posted the correction.  You don't get an extra scholarship.  Period.  End of story.

Second, I'm truly sorry that I let you get me into your rope-a-dope on Hazel. I don't buy for an instant that Buzz Williams really wanted Hazel back next year--not with Darius Johnson Odom available and wanting to attend Marquette.  I'll just say that if Lazar Hayward had done the same thing, my belief is that MU would have found forgiveness in their hearts and accepted an apology--just as they did with O Lee, Copa, McCall, and other situations over the years.   

If you believe Buzz was ready to leave DJO and Mbao on the table for someone else to take, because he really preferred to have Pat Hazel, then we'll just have to disagree. 

Second, I'm not "ripping" Buzz Willams for running Pat Hazel off the team, I'm ripping those like you who  treat a transfer as an egregious sin that only Tom Crean committed.

As I've tried to point out to you, it is normal and acceptable for high-major teams to see a player or two leave--sometimes every year. If we want to compete with these teams, then we're going to have to accept that we'll see players transfer.

Duke has transfers--at least one a year

Villanova has transfers--four over the last three years.

Kansas has transfers--two this year alone.

UConn has transfers. UNC has transfers, Kentucky has transfers. 

So I see nothing wrong with Buzz wanting to upgrade the roster--even it means encouraging players like Pat Hazel and Scott Christopherson to transfer.  Those players wouldn't have been significant contributors and it's better for them to get to a program better suited to their skills.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Well if it is true that it was an off the court issue (which it seems to be well documented) then it isn't like Buzz forced him out, he did it himself. It looks like it happened in the middle of the season based on Hazel's sudden drop in playing time, which means that Buzz recruiting before we found out Hazel was going to transfer isn't the same as him being forced out because Buzz was trying to find someone better and Hazel was the unlucky guy to get the boot.

Ahh, but as we all know there are those that get punished and those that get PUNISHED.  Let's put it this way, one of many examples...a certain clutch guard wasn't kicked off MU's squad in the 1990's despite doing things that other players WERE kicked off for.  That's the reality of life.  You play well, 2nd chances seem to come up more often than not vs someone that doesn't play as well or isn't a key component of the team.

Just as new coaches have a much shorter leash with players they didn't recruit, also part of life in college (or the pros).  That's reality and it goes on everywhere.  

[Hards Alumni]

WHAT




THE




HELL





IS





WRONG





WITH






THIS





ENTIRE






BOARD'S





OBSESSION





WITH




TOM





CREAN?





ENOUGH





ALREADY!

[GOMU1104]

WHAT




THE




HELL





IS





WRONG





WITH






THIS





ENTIRE






BOARD'S





OBSESSION





WITH




TOM





CREAN?





ENOUGH





ALREADY!

Couldn't agree more.

Can't all TC discussion be kept on the Superbar?

Or better yet...a Members Only section where PRN, 4ever, Silky, Chicos, MU84, etc can either A) Circle Jerk to a picture of TC in a tanning bed, or B) figure out a way to blame TC for the economy, swine flu, the Cubs sucking, whatever.

Seriously, you idiots make this board unreadable. Just go somewhere an discuss it yourselves. Every thread turns into this garbage. Whats the point?

[Silky]

I'm trying to protect the program from jokers like Mr. OCD 84 who is trying to bring down Buzz Williams when he doesn't have the facts.  Sorry for getting involved, but when people like that start tossing around lies, someone needs to say something.

[mu_hilltopper]

I'm siding the other way.  Talk about what you want to talk about. 

You "idiots" who don't like reading about topic X can just skip to the next message/thread.

Tom Crean left MU 15 months ago.  We'll be talking about him for quite some time into the future.   Get used to it.

[bma725]

I'm siding the other way.  Talk about what you want to talk about. 

You "idiots" who don't like reading about topic X can just skip to the next message/thread.

Tom Crean left MU 15 months ago.  We'll be talking about him for quite some time into the future.   Get used to it.

Problem is that it's getting to the point where you can't avoid it.  Any thread with information worth reading eventually turns into a Crean thread.  There are certain posters that can't go more than a couple posts without mentioning him and turning every single thread into the same tired debate.  It's taking a lot of the fun out of this place.

[4everwarriors]

I don't know about that. Loads of fun tarnishing that jackass and exposing him as the phony some of us realized he was many years ago.

[GGGG]

I'm trying to protect the program from jokers like Mr. OCD 84 who is trying to bring down Buzz Williams when he doesn't have the facts. 

Thank God.  The entire program would be in serious jeopardy if it weren't for your defense of Buzz.  Lord knows that this message board has the ability to shake the Marquette basketball program to its very foundations!

Keep up the good fight my man!!!

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

Every post by Marquette84 is about the exact same thing...whether our former coach's name is mentioned or not. Talk about Buzz and his "treatment" of Hazel? We know it's a comparison. Are you really denying this?

Rarely, if ever, have you seen me, 4ever or Hayward start a thread on this topic. It's almost always in response to desperate, longing love letters posted by SJS or some other jilted teenaged girl.

"He said he LOVED me!"  

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Problem is that it's getting to the point where you can't avoid it.  Any thread with information worth reading eventually turns into a Crean thread.  There are certain posters that can't go more than a couple posts without mentioning him and turning every single thread into the same tired debate.  It's taking a lot of the fun out of this place.

I agree with you... and I have to admit that my responses to some posts only exacerbate the issue.

I think that the consolidation of the Brewers vs Cubs thread has been great, and maybe something like that could be used to TC.

He seems to be the most polarizing topic on the board.

If you have an opinion of the guy... take it to the TC thread.

[GGGG]

I don't know about that. Loads of fun tarnishing that jackass and exposing him as the phony some of us realized he was many years ago.

Not really.  Same arguments by the same people for 15 months straight.  No fun in that.

I'm with bma....it has gotten tiresome and hard to avoid.

[Kramerica]

Problem is that it's getting to the point where you can't avoid it.  Any thread with information worth reading eventually turns into a Crean thread.  There are certain posters that can't go more than a couple posts without mentioning him and turning every single thread into the same tired debate.  It's taking a lot of the fun out of this place.

+100000000000000000000000

I started reading this thread to see if anyone had information about any new recruits (the guy who decommitted from USC, maybe) and it just turns into this big circle jerk over Crean. Its really annoying. 

[Hards Alumni]

Problem is that it's getting to the point where you can't avoid it.  Any thread with information worth reading eventually turns into a Crean thread.  There are certain posters that can't go more than a couple posts without mentioning him and turning every single thread into the same tired debate.  It's taking a lot of the fun out of this place.

I full heartedly agree... and this was the point I was trying to make... less eloquently of course.

I don't mind when the thread is titled or implies that it has TC info... I avoid it.

on the other hand, threads get completely hijacked every day or two and go from a meaningful discussion to a friggin pissing match between some of the regulars on the board.

I am all for an open board or moderating with a gentle stroke, but I'm here to read about what everyone has to say, and not watch every discussion disintigrate because of a select few.

[mu_hilltopper]

Blah, blah, blah.   Honestly, I find the complaining about talking about Crean just as bad.

We're not going to create a rule about NOT talking about Crean.  And it's probably not going to stop, especially when the beast is fed.  

So before you start writing about "Can we please stop talking about Crean?" .. please, just don't.  Ignore the offending message, and just move along.    I've heard this internet thing is pretty big, lots of stuff to read, games to play, sites to visit, porn to download. 

[GGGG]

Blah, blah, blah.   Honestly, I find the complaining about talking about Crean just as bad.

We're not going to create a rule about NOT talking about Crean.  And it's probably not going to stop, especially when the beast is fed.  

So before you start writing about "Can we please stop talking about Crean?" .. please, just don't.  Ignore the offending message, and just move along.    I've heard this internet thing is pretty big, lots of stuff to read, games to play, sites to visit, porn to download. 

mu_hilltopper...the Ayatollah Khamenei of MUScoop.   

[mu_hilltopper]

How's that?  An Ayatollah would very much be against free speech.   I am for it, with people deciding for themselves whether to read it or not.

[NYWarrior]

Infidels unite!





And now, back to your regularly scheduled Tom Crean programming....................

did you see DWade wearing IU shorts in that commercial!

oh the humanity!

must. start. new. thread.

[GGGG]

How's that?  An Ayatollah would very much be against free speech.   I am for it, with people deciding for themselves whether to read it or not.

Yer puttin' down the grassroots reform movement with one proclamation!!

(And it was a joke anyway.)

[Hards Alumni]

fair enough, your site, you moderate it as you please.

I guess I will just have to ignore 1/2 to 1/3 of all threads!

[pillardean]

I understand what MU84 was saying about the "1 year tryout" thing.  

I just think it's tough on the kid coming into MU.  If you are saying "tryout" then you are probably not giving the same chances to that kid as you would the other players that are an "investment."

The way I look at it, transfers occur when the investment no longer is worthwhile for BOTH the school and the player.  We saw that with Hazel and Christopherson.  They moved somewhere where their skills would be much more appreciated and respected and allowed to develop to a greater degree.  Nothing wrong with that, whether you want to say there was anything malicious in it (Hazel still be here if he had Hayward type numbers) or not would be the exact crux of if he should still be here or not, for Hayward would still be holding up his end of the investment-production-while Hazel wasn't!

I just think defining a PLAYER as having a "tryout" year would wrong to do as a University.  But if MU would say that each player each year is trying to defend his scholarship at MU and must work and produce accordingly or MU and Buzz won't renew the scholarship is not wrong.  For yes, we offered the kid a scholarship to play at MU, but if the kid doesn't deliver in the matter in which Buzz and MU defines, then they should not be held to renewing that scholarship.  Doing that does not make MU or Buzz look like monsters.  It's the way of ther world, you must produce and if you don't you won't be sticking around in your job or at your school.  It's that way for student-athletes.  They must produce at two aspects, the student and the athlete.  A student needs to produce in his/her studies or MU can deny re-enterence the following year.  There are standards people must live up to at MU and any University, if they are not living up to them then MU does not need to live up to their initial agreement.

If we want to go down that road and pick up another player this year, then all the newcomers and old regime would fall into the if you don't pan out we will not be reinstituting your scholarship for the following year.  All would need to be under the short leash, not just that final recruit.

We could speculate on whether we pick up one last recruit and what the outcome would be, but watching this year Buzz does has a bit of a plan he is working for.  And if someone from this year doesn't fit into that plan, I do not think we should pick up another player.  Save it and keep it open for 2010-2011 and forward.  But if there is someone out there that Buzz want's for his plan.  I definetely see him picking up that player for this year and forward.

[deep vacuum]

Would Frozena get any playing time until the newbies get acclimated?  He is listed on this years roster, and he has had two years of practice time in playing against the 4 graduated seniors plus Cubillan and Hayward so he knows what is required to succeed in Buzz's system and the Big East.  Just curious.