Marquette: McAdams matter FAQs

[Lennys Tap]

Made a very small donation, wish they would have allowed for a note or something, to say why one was donating.

How dare they rob you of the opportunity to make it all about you?

[ChicosBailBonds]

For now, yup.  I need a bit more information on where this money is going and if it truly is backing Prof McAdams.  More to come.  Will enjoy diverting donations to this cause.

[GGGG]

Sultan thinks it's priceless because he lives in the cocoon of academia which is a low risk, low threat environment.

No I think it's precious that daddy brags up her daughter on a message board and we're supposed to treat the source as unbiased.

[mu-rara]

I've been re thinking my position on this.

Maybe Abbate was really a student.  She did respond like an immature 20 year old undergrad.....didn't she? 

If she would have responded with maturity and poise, this matter would not be escalated to the level of ridiculous.  The "She was only a student" narrative was created by lawyers and PR hacks.  Abbate will face a lot tougher skullduggery in the competitive halls of academia.  The fact that she couldn't handle a wet behind the ears undergrad does not bode well for her.

This is an embarrassment to Marquette.  The administration chose to use this as a way to rid themselves of a long time thorn in their side.  If they had put all the parties in a room to hug it out, the matter never sees the light of day.   Now they are handing McAdams a huge PR victory and enhancing his retirement income significantly..  Good Job MU.

[GGGG]

No, I'll tell you what is priceless. We had dinner this evening with the nephew of a colleague. Dr Allen Eghrari is a faculty member at the Wilmer Eye Institute who is in Seattle to present a paper at the ARVO Ophthalmology Conference.

He and his colleagues from Wilmer have spent 6 months in each of the past 5 years in west Africa working with Ebola survivors to research a spike in blindness in this patient population. They are doing God's work trying to help the most destitute people imaginable. And they have made some landmark discoveries in identifying the causes of blindness in people who have survived one of the most terrible viruses.

These young physicians leave the family comforts of an upper middle class life behind to help people in primitive conditions. They are kindred spirits friends of mine like like Danny Sands, Jeff Blander, and Paul Farmer who have devoted their considerable professional skills to addressing staggering health care problems afflicting the poor and impoverished.

What these people do is priceless. The travails of a cranky old professor and a mediocre aspiring academic are meaningless by comparison.

Then STFU, log out, and let us mere minions who merely have the opportunity to walk the same soil as you do go on debating like a bunch of monkeys at the zoo. 

[GGGG]

I've been re thinking my position on this.

Maybe Abbate was really a student.  She did respond like an immature 20 year old undergrad.....didn't she? 

If she would have responded with maturity and poise, this matter would not be escalated to the level of ridiculous.  The "She was only a student" narrative was created by lawyers and PR hacks.  Abbate will face a lot tougher skullduggery in the competitive halls of academia.  The fact that she couldn't handle a wet behind the ears undergrad does not bode well for her.

I agree that this doesn't bode well for her.  She didn't act well in her role.  But the student narrative was not created by PR hacks.  It was created by Marquette and based on the traditions of academia.

[mu-rara]

I agree that this doesn't bode well for her.  She didn't act well in her role.  But the student narrative was not created by PR hacks.  It was created by Marquette and based on the traditions of academia.

Sultan,

This moved beyond the traditions of academia a long time ago.  It's in the hands of the court system now.  I think the traditions of academia dictated that Abbate keep this to a conversation in her office to diffuse it and that would be the end.

[Coleman]

No one here is defending Abbatte. I'm certainly not.

The issue is the conduct by McAdams.

[Ellenson Guerrero]

No one here is defending Abbatte. I'm certainly not.

The issue is the conduct by McAdams.

Fair enough, Marquette won't be able to limit this lawsuit to the subject of McAdams' conduct. McAdams and his lawyers will have fun digging into all of Marquette's internal email on this issue, all of the procedures used to handle the undergrad's complaint, everything related to the committee report, deposing Lovell on his apology requirement, etc. 

I hope Marquette factored in a couple years of discovery hell when deciding to take the hard line. 

[mu-rara]

No one here is defending Abbatte. I'm certainly not.

The issue is the conduct by McAdams.

I know that's where the McAdams haters want it to go.  Not so sure the courts will see it that way.

[mu03eng]

I know that's where the McAdams haters want it to go.  Not so sure the courts will see it that way.

I don't see how the lawyers can't look at the way middle management handled this. McAdams blogging is theoretically (in his version) as a direct response to his belief that MU administration did not redress the undergrads complaint correctly.

I.E. if MU handles everything correctly McAdams doesn't blog and Abbatte goes on being an unknown, bad teacher at Marquette.

I'm putting faith in the administration that they've walked through all scenarios and are standing on principles that are worth defending. I'm hoping they recognize their low level administration f'ed up and will correct that in the future. We'll find out in the next couple of year if that faith is misplaced or not.

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

I don't see how the lawyers can't look at the way middle management handled this. McAdams blogging is theoretically (in his version) as a direct response to his belief that MU administration did not redress the undergrads complaint correctly.

I.E. if MU handles everything correctly McAdams doesn't blog and Abbatte goes on being an unknown, bad teacher at Marquette.

I'm putting faith in the administration that they've walked through all scenarios and are standing on principles that are worth defending. I'm hoping they recognize their low level administration f'ed up and will correct that in the future. We'll find out in the next couple of year if that faith is misplaced or not.

I agree with your last part. 

I have to say though your middle part is not quite the same way i see it.  McAdams could have blasted away at the administration and not named anyone's name.  That was not smart on his part.  We like to talk about over-reach on MU's part on discipline....there was over-reach everywhere.

[mu03eng]

I agree with your last part. 

I have to say though your middle part is not quite the same way i see it.  McAdams could have blasted away at the administration and not named anyone's name.  That was not smart on his part.  We like to talk about over-reach on MU's part on discipline....there was over-reach everywhere.

We're in full agreement, I'm not trying to let McAdams off the hook especially as I think he has acted the least adult in this whole scenario. I was just trying to put out an argument that McAdams himself might make.

[WellsstreetWanderer]

I read her thesis on how the risk matrix for avoiding collateral damage in warfare violates the concept of just war.

She is neither a warrior nor a scholar. She is a shrill emotional voice who does not comprehend the choices that must be made in combat.

Frankly, her take on the ethics of warfighting is rubbish.

Glad she is no longer poisoning the minds of MU students. She will fit in well at the Peoples Republic of Boulder. Everyone involved sticking to their principals just creates a big black eye for MU. Can't believe this couldn't have been handled quietly.

[WarriorInNYC]

Glad she is no longer poisoning the minds of MU students. She will fit in well at the Peoples Republic of Boulder. Everyone involved sticking to their principals just creates a big black eye for MU. Can't believe this couldn't have been handled quietly.

I know this could have been handled better, though I'm not completely sure on my own exactly how.

But, knowing that McAdams was involved here, there was no way this was going to be quiet.  Even if MU did not release anything or make a press release, McAdams would have been shouting.

[keefe]

No I think it's precious that daddy brags up her daughter on a message board and we're supposed to treat the source as unbiased.

As opposed to the daddy who goes to the  local high school to threaten the principal because his kids are getting bullied.

My daughter went to college in a not great part of Manhattan at 17. And at the age of 21 she was working in sub-Saharan Africa working on clean water programs. For the past year she has been at the LSHTM and will return for her final year in Boston to finish up her MPH.

My wife taught her children to be strong, self-reliant, and intrepid. And she never would have gone to any school to demand that the authorities take action against kids picking on hers.

My daughter would never, ever let anonymous internet bullies cause her to change her life's path or trajectory. I think her mother's maxim that kids need to figure things out for themselves has served her well.

And yes, my colleague's nephew who is a faculty member at Johns Hopkins doing research in west Africa on blindness among ebola survivors is priceless. If Cheryl Abbate lives to be 100 she will never come close to matching what Dr Allen Eghrari has accomplished in the past 5 years at Wilmer.

   
 

[mayfairskatingrink]

Found out that MU contacted the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel and fed them the"bullying" headline/story.  I'm not sure it's in Marquette's best interest to go to war with the JS carrying it's water, though. 

When the JS went on it's rampage to try and take down Rebecca Bradley in her Supreme Court race, they published the infamous "affair" headline and story, which only served to create an enormous backlash.  To show how liberal the JS is now, that "story" that the JS printed on the front page was also shopped to the Capital Times in Madison and the Wisconsin State Journal and both papers thought there wasn't anything close to news there and refused to cover it.

George Stanley tried to take down Rebecca Bradley and failed.  We'll see if he has better luck with John McAdams.

[mu-rara]

Found out that MU contacted the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel and fed them the"bullying" headline/story.  I'm not sure it's in Marquette's best interest to go to war with the JS carrying it's water, though. 

When the JS went on it's rampage to try and take down Rebecca Bradley in her Supreme Court race, they published the infamous "affair" headline and story, which only served to create an enormous backlash.  To show how liberal the JS is now, that "story" that the JS printed on the front page was also shopped to the Capital Times in Madison and the Wisconsin State Journal and both papers thought there wasn't anything close to news there and refused to cover it.

George Stanley tried to take down Rebecca Bradley and failed.  We'll see if he has better luck with John McAdams.

There aren't any Democrats involved in shenanigans that deserve the paper's attention.  Why not take a shot at McAdams.

Teal for BrandX

[muwarrior69]

If this true, then Catholic teaching at MU is considered homophobic and bigotry. What has happened at my alma matre, to my country; when people can lose their jobs just for expressing an opinion?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2014/12/17/marquette-university-tells-employees-opposition-to-same-sex-marriage-could-be-unlawful-harassment/

[rocket surgeon]

If this true, then Catholic teaching at MU is considered homophobic and bigotry. What has happened at my alma matre, to my country; when people can lose their jobs just for expressing an opinion?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2014/12/17/marquette-university-tells-employees-opposition-to-same-sex-marriage-could-be-unlawful-harassment/

it's in the spirit of our living, breathing, evolution my man.  you're just out of touch and behind the times

[muwarrior69]

So will we be able to still talk about McAdams et al?

[mu-rara]

UW professors are whining and crying about the potential loss of tenure protection.

McAdams has tenure and still may be fired for political reasons.

What do you think the chances are that UW profs will stand up for McAdams.

[GGGG]

UW professors are not losing tenure protection. They have been absolutely ridiculous in their response to this.

[forgetful]

UW professors are whining and crying about the potential loss of tenure protection.

McAdams has tenure and still may be fired for political reasons.

What do you think the chances are that UW profs will stand up for McAdams.

McAdams is not being fired for political reasons.  He is being fired for repeatedly violating University codes of ethics in regards to students.  His violations have been documented and he continued to violate these rules that are in place solely to protect the students. 

He was right to be fired and he has no one to blame but himself. 

Those attacking Abbate should be ashamed of themselves.  Also, Keefe, she didn't give up her path due to internet bullies.  She continued her path in a different way to ultimately both protect herself and continue her life goals. 

If you daughter didn't continue her path in a safer manner after threats, frankly she'd be an idiot.  There is a difference between being brave and stupid and a difference between being stubborn (sticking with the same exact path) and creative (achieving the same goals in a safer wiser manner). 

[rocket surgeon]

McAdams is not being fired for political reasons.  He is being fired for repeatedly violating University codes of ethics in regards to students.  His violations have been documented and he continued to violate these rules that are in place solely to protect the students. 

He was right to be fired and he has no one to blame but himself. 

Those attacking Abbate should be ashamed of themselves.  Also, Keefe, she didn't give up her path due to internet bullies.  She continued her path in a different way to ultimately both protect herself and continue her life goals. 

If you daughter didn't continue her path in a safer manner after threats, frankly she'd be an idiot.  There is a difference between being brave and stupid and a difference between being stubborn (sticking with the same exact path) and creative (achieving the same goals in a safer wiser manner).

  then why will he, as many seem to think or believe, win a lawsuit if there was "no harm, no foul"?  or do you think he does not have a case since MU fired him for "bad form" toward a student?