MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: WhoaJoe2020 on January 08, 2020, 01:12:04 AM
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It should be a crime.
I have this bad habit of focusing on Markus when he's on defense more than when he's on offense.
In the Villanove game he more than held his own most of the game.
In the Providence game his lack of height was repeatedly exploited.
I didn't get to see the Creighton game so I can't comment on what happened there.
Cooley definitely had a plan to take advantage of Markus and now everyone else has video of it to study. Maybe he studied video of the Creighton game. I don't know.
What I do know, is that it happened too often and led to way too many easy baskets for Providence. It seemed like Wojo made some adjustment so Markus wasn't getting caught down low in a mismatch as much later in the game, but he was still out of position for defensive rebounds which he is generally very good at securing. This led to several offensive put backs by Providence.
Any feedback on Markus' defense in the Creighton game would be appreciated, as well as thoughts on how he and the team match up defensively in upcoming games.
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It should be a crime.
I have this bad habit of focusing on Markus when he's on defense more than when he's on offense.
In the Villanove game he more than held his own most of the game.
In the Providence game his lack of height was repeatedly exploited.
I didn't get to see the Creighton game so I can't comment on what happened there.
Cooley definitely had a plan to take advantage of Markus and now everyone else has video of it to study. Maybe he studied video of the Creighton game. I don't know.
What I do know, is that it happened too often and lead to way too many easy baskets for Providence. It seemed like Wojo made some adjustment so Markus wasn't getting caught down low in a mismatch as much, later in the game but he was still out of position for defensive rebounds which he is generally very good at securing. This led to several offensive put backs by Providence.
Any feedback on Markus' defense in the Creighton game would be appreciated, as well as thoughts on how he and the team match up defensively in upcoming games.
You don't really need a video to know that you can take advantage of Howard's 5'10 height, down low.
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You don't really need a video to know that you can take advantage of Howard's 5'10 height, down low.
No.... but I've never seen a team exploit Markus the way Providence did today.
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No.... but I've never seen a team exploit Markus the way Providence did today.
Make Markus work hard on both ends of the court to deplete his energy reserves. It's surprising and impressive at how Howard wasn't gassed at the end of that game.
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Creighton drew our bigs out to the perimeter and continually posted up Markus. This is to wear him out and foul him out. Providence also tried to knock him out.
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Providence also minimized the minutes for 5'11" Luwane Pipkins. Pipkins played his season low in minutes (12) despite overtime. In the first half, Duke and Diallo mostly drew the defensive assignment of Markus, but in the second they started with Pipkins on him and Howard absolutely torched him. Cooley pulled Pipkins out until he had to put him back in later because of players fouling out. Everyone else on that roster is 6'3" or bigger, which made for a tougher matchup on both ends.
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Creighton drew our bigs out to the perimeter and continually posted up Markus. This is to wear him out and foul him out. Providence also tried to knock him out.
Providence has a history of trying to get our smaller guards on one of their bigger players in the low post. They used to take advantage of Rowsey the same way.
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Creighton drew our bigs out to the perimeter and continually posted up Markus. This is to wear him out and foul him out. Providence also tried to knock him out.
So if this is the standard game plan to exploit Markus, what should Wojo do to counter it. I know it's not a revolutionary concept to get a smaller player isolated on a big but Providence seemed to take it to a whole different level. If Creighton did the same and had the same level of success I worry that this could become the norm.
Does the rest of the conference have the depth, size, and quality of players to replicate what Providence and Creighton did?
I would really appreciate other people's take on how we match up going forward in conference.
If more than 50% of the teams have the size and talent to exploit Markus like CU and PC did, Wojo may have to reconsider having Markus on the floor at times. If he can come up with a way to limit Markus' 'exposure on defense even better.
If Wojo does adjust by sitting Markus more, other guys will be forced to step up( Sacar, Koby, Bailey, Elliot, Cain) offensively. It may improve their confidence and their game. It also reduces the wear and tear on Markus.
Of course there's the whole ego thing and getting Markus to accept it. Could he handle being the teams microwave against certain match ups?
In a lot of games Markus' offensive ability far outweighs his defensive liability. In some games not so much. It will be interesting to see how this plays out.
Side note: This relates to another topic I posted. " Is Markus must see basketball ? "
Same question. Is Wojo showcasing Markus every game for the national recognition, recruiting, and of course for getting Markus into the NBA,(which also helps recruiting), and sacrificing some team concepts that could potentially contribute to losses??
Or does he truly believe Markus' offensive ability ALWAYS outweighs his defensive liability??
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Woj won't have a klue, hey?
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does anybody still think markus can make an nba roster?
its really a shame that another couple inches of height with the same skill set likely would have gotten him as a lottery pick in the draft vs now most likely going to europe after marquette!
such a bummer
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To me, Markus held his own on D last night. About a dozen other things contributed to the loss more than this. Among others missed layups, pick and rolls where the roller is not an offfensive threat, not stepping on their throats when we got the lead, not fouling before the 3
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No.... but I've never seen a team exploit Markus the way Providence did today.
?
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does anybody still think markus can make an nba roster?
its really a shame that another couple inches of height with the same skill set likely would have gotten him as a lottery pick in the draft vs now most likely going to europe after marquette!
such a bummer
If Markus was 6'3 he would have been in the NBA at 19
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Btw, my buddy and I were talking the other day, commenting on how well we thought Markus has improved on defense. But, opposing teams are still going to go at him to wear him down.
PC was beating him up with no calls on the body fouls. They also hurt him last year, and that injury was with him for the rest of the season.
Two things need to change as the Big East officials are so inconsistent:
One, like Wright, McDermott, and Cooley, Wojo needs to ride these officials full time, including during time outs. It is a fine art (and I know Wojo works the officials) but someone like Jay Wright never lets up.
Two, the coaches and the players need to have others step up to make opposing teams pay. Right now, MU is deferring and it's playing right into opponents' hands. Case in point was Bailey in his timid 1st half (4 points) versus his aggressive second (15 points). That remains the question mark for this team, says Captain Obvious.
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To me, Markus held his own on D last night. About a dozen other things contributed to the loss more than this. Among others missed layups, pick and rolls where the roller is not an offfensive threat, not stepping on their throats when we got the lead, not fouling before the 3
We must have been watching different games.
I would agree he held his own, but only in respect to his offensive abilities offsetting his defensive liabilities.
I am certainly not suggesting that the loss was all on Markus, but PCs exploitation of him on defense was a considerable factor.
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Markus wasn't the only one exploited by Providence. It was pretty much whatever 5 were on the floor for MU.
McDermott definitely gave Cooley his strategy book for MU.
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does anybody still think markus can make an nba roster?
its really a shame that another couple inches of height with the same skill set likely would have gotten him as a lottery pick in the draft vs now most likely going to europe after marquette!
such a bummer
I think Markus makes an NBA roster. Bucks should take him in 2nd round.
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does anybody still think markus can make an nba roster?
its really a shame that another couple inches of height with the same skill set likely would have gotten him as a lottery pick in the draft vs now most likely going to europe after marquette!
such a bummer
As a microwave type scorer on teams with a couple superstars who demand double teams. Sure, it's a possibility.
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I think Markus makes an NBA roster. Bucks should take him in 2nd round.
Given the right team as a role player, I think you might be right. Bucks and Golden State come to mind. Will be interesting to see how his career plays out. Happy we have him right now.
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A few interesting notes about the top-5 Big East scorers, which Markus will likely join on Saturday. All of them (Markus included) missed the NCAA tournament at least once. Three of the top-5 (Troy Bell, Luke Harangody, Dana Barros) never saw the second weekend of the Tournament and none ever made a Final Four.
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The continued unappreciation of Markus Howard amazes me.
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Markus wasn't the only one exploited by Providence. It was pretty much whatever 5 were on the floor for MU.
McDermott definitely gave Cooley his strategy book for MU.
When Markus wasn't on the floor I noticed that PC s offense looked a lot different.
I thought Marquettes defense looked more settled in those situations.
That's not to say the defense was impenetrable but markedly better. Rebounding as well.
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Btw, my buddy and I were talking the other day, commenting on how well we thought Markus has improved on defense. But, opposing teams are still going to go at him to wear him down.
PC was beating him up with no calls on the body fouls. They also hurt him last year, and that injury was with him for the rest of the season.
Two things need to change as the Big East officials are so inconsistent:
One, like Wright, McDermott, and Cooley, Wojo needs to ride these officials full time, including during time outs. It is a fine art (and I know Wojo works the officials) but someone like Jay Wright never lets up.
Two, the coaches and the players need to have others step up to make opposing teams pay. Right now, MU is deferring and it's playing right into opponents' hands. Case in point was Bailey in his timid 1st half (4 points) versus his aggressive second (15 points). That remains the question mark for this team, says Captain Obvious.
Yeah, I commented in towers Villanova postgame thread applauding Markus' defense. Then PC happened. I didn't get a chance to see the Creighton game which is why I started this thread.
I'd really appreciate it if someone who has seen our upcoming opponents would give their take on how they think Marquette, and Markus in particular, match up.
Everything else you mentioned I totally agree with, especially other guys stepping up earlier in games. As far as working the officials..... If Markus hasn't earned the respect of the BEast officials by now, I doubt Wojos bitching is going to influence them. I guess he could force them to give him a technical, but our margin for victory is pretty thin and I can already hear some people blaming him for it if the team lost a close game.
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I think Markus makes an NBA roster. Bucks should take him in 2nd round.
G league material
5'10 shooting guards that can only score are a very niche mold in the NBA. His defense isn't good enough to justify him being on the floor vs. guys who are 6'3+
Marcus is just too small and not athletic enough for the NBA. If he averaged around 10 assists a game, it'd be a different story. He's undersized for his position in the NBA.
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G league material
5'10 shooting guards that can only score are a very niche mold in the NBA. His defense isn't good enough to justify him being on the floor vs. guys who are 6'3+
Marcus is just too small and not athletic enough for the NBA. If he averaged around 10 assists a game, it'd be a different story. He's undersized for his position in the NBA.
If he gets on a team with more legitimate scoring threats, opposing teams won't be able to focus on him like they do now. He probably won't be dishing many assists because he will be more in the mold of a Steve Kerr on the Bulls. Hang out at the three point line and make opposing teams pay for doubling the superstars.
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The continued unappreciation of Markus Howard amazes me.
I go very back and forth with him at times, often even within the same game. His ability to score is incredible. He makes some of the hardest shots in basketball look so easy. And his defense has really gotten better over the years, which I give him a ton of credit for. He's often super active off the ball too, which takes a ton of effort and yet he's still playing the most minutes on the team.
The downsides are real too, though. Too many of his passes are forced or not timed well, resulting in turnovers or disruption of the offense. The same thing is often true of his ball-handling; he gets his pocket picked more often than most guys who handle the ball as much as he does. Some of those tough shots he gets praised for making are also just plain bad shots, and missing those shots can look like he's playing undisciplined basketball. And when we rely on Markus so heavily, some of these negatives feel amplified, especially in close games.
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We must have been watching different games.
I would agree he held his own, but only in respect to his offensive abilities offsetting his defensive liabilities.
I am certainly not suggesting that the loss was all on Markus, but PCs exploitation of him on defense was a considerable factor.
I count one time he was beaten in the half court.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SPf0zt9UNio (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SPf0zt9UNio)
Edit. twice. Once on a push off and the other didnt get through a screen.
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I count one time he was beaten in the half court.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SPf0zt9UNio (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SPf0zt9UNio)
Edit. twice. Once on a push off and the other didnt get through a screen.
Is that 4 minute highlight reel supposed to be your supporting evidence?
I was not referring to Markus being beat off the dribble, I was referring to him being isolated in the post. It didn't happen as much later in the game so I don't know if Wojo made an adjustment on defense or if PC was running something different on offense. PC also exploited him on offensive rebounds for several second chance baskets.
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I go very back and forth with him at times, often even within the same game. His ability to score is incredible. He makes some of the hardest shots in basketball look so easy. And his defense has really gotten better over the years, which I give him a ton of credit for. He's often super active off the ball too, which takes a ton of effort and yet he's still playing the most minutes on the team.
The downsides are real too, though. Too many of his passes are forced or not timed well, resulting in turnovers or disruption of the offense. The same thing is often true of his ball-handling; he gets his pocket picked more often than most guys who handle the ball as much as he does. Some of those tough shots he gets praised for making are also just plain bad shots, and missing those shots can look like he's playing undisciplined basketball. And when we rely on Markus so heavily, some of these negatives feel amplified, especially in close games.
If he could only be perfect!
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Is that 4 minute highlight reel supposed to be your supporting evidence?
I was not referring to Markus being beat off the dribble, I was referring to him being isolated in the post. It didn't happen as much later in the game so I don't know if Wojo made an adjustment on defense or if PC was running something different on offense. PC also exploited him on offensive rebounds for several second chance baskets.
that was every Providence score. Not once was he posted up for a basket,. In fact he was rarely ever in the pain, much less exploited. I thought he played a pretty good defensive game.
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that was every Providence score. Not once was he posted up for a basket,. In fact he was rarely ever in the pain, much less exploited. I thought he played a pretty good defensive game.
I didn't say he was posted up. He wound up isolated in or near the paint due to whatever Providence was running and guys made easy shots over him. They also got several offensive rebounds over him for second chance baskets. I stated that Wono must have made an adjustment and I believe I saw Markus switching up top later in the game rather than staying on one guy. Never the less, his lack of size was and will likely continue to be exploited.
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I didn't say he was posted up. He wound up isolated in or near the paint due to whatever Providence was running and guys made easy shots over him. They also got several offensive rebounds over him for second chance baskets. I stated that Wono must have made an adjustment and I believe I saw Markus switching up top later in the game rather than staying on one guy. Never the less, his lack of size was and will likely continue to be exploited.
Providence made ONE shot over Markus. In my opinion, he was not exploited on the defensive end. They were physical with.him when we were in offense.
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If he could only be perfect!
Oh, I'd definitely like him more then!
The things he struggles with, are things you don't typically see as weaknesses in all-conference types of guys, let alone All-Americans, though. That's why I find him frustrating at times. Overall, he's a ton of fun to watch, and I know I'll find myself reminiscing the Markus Howard era in years to come.
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Providence made ONE shot over Markus. In my opinion, he was not exploited on the defensive end. They were physical with.him when we were in offense.
We'll have to agree to disagree.
I do challenge you to go back and watch his defensive performance in the Villanova game and then watch his performance in the Providence game.
I'm not going to because I already focused on Markus' defense in both games live. I can't comment on the Creoghton game because I haven't seen it.
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It should be a crime.
I have this bad habit of focusing on Markus when he's on defense more than when he's on offense.
In the Villanove game he more than held his own most of the game.
In the Providence game his lack of height was repeatedly exploited.
I didn't get to see the Creighton game so I can't comment on what happened there.
Cooley definitely had a plan to take advantage of Markus and now everyone else has video of it to study. Maybe he studied video of the Creighton game. I don't know.
What I do know, is that it happened too often and led to way too many easy baskets for Providence. It seemed like Wojo made some adjustment so Markus wasn't getting caught down low in a mismatch as much later in the game, but he was still out of position for defensive rebounds which he is generally very good at securing. This led to several offensive put backs by Providence.
Any feedback on Markus' defense in the Creighton game would be appreciated, as well as thoughts on how he and the team match up defensively in upcoming games.
The really stupid posts flood out after a loss. But hey kudos to Cooley for being the first coach to try to iso Markus. Its amazing we havent seen it before.
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The really stupid posts flood out after a loss. But hey kudos to Cooley for being the first coach to try to iso Markus. Its amazing we havent seen it before.
My point wasn't that it hasn't been done before..... It was that it was really glaring at times in the PC game and I wondered about the Creighton game. Villanova wasn't able to do it which made me wonder what Providence did differently. It's also why I asked about the Creighton game. I wanted to know if Markus had held his own defensively in that game. Dumb I know, but I'm still curious. No one has answered my Creighton question yet.
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that was every Providence score. Not once was he posted up for a basket,. In fact he was rarely ever in the pain, much less exploited. I thought he played a pretty good defensive game.
That was helpful but incomplete, offensive rebounds and attempts where shooting fouls occurred were not included. I guess it's hard to explain just from seeing a 4 minute clip. I also didn't realize how many times Markus got stripped for fast breaks. Maybe that was skewing my opinion. Thanks for the link though.