NBA Thread 2020-21

[lawdog77]

It's clearly Kevin Love's fault.

[tower912]

Somehow,  I am sure this is Lebron's fault.

[lawdog77]

Somehow,  I am sure this is Lebron's fault.

Well, if he were starting instead of Jerami Grant, they would not be losing. So yeah, it is.

[cheebs09]

My only thought with Pop having difficulties would be meshing a bunch of random guys together on the fly might not be his strength. On top of SA having great players, they had great players who bought into a system that they were a part of for many years. Maybe he’s trying to fit a square peg in a round hole.

I’d worry more when they lose the games that count, but it’s not a great start.

[JWags85]

My only thought with Pop having difficulties would be meshing a bunch of random guys together on the fly might not be his strength. On top of SA having great players, they had great players who bought into a system that they were a part of for many years. Maybe he’s trying to fit a square peg in a round hole.

I’d worry more when they lose the games that count, but it’s not a great start.

Thats sort of my thought.  It feels like the offense alternates between clogged/ineffective iso and over complicated system ball that the team isn't used to or prepared for.  So you get this weird combo that cant get buckets when it counts.

Also, I know they are working stuff out, but its clear certain guys are being given roles they are supposed to stick to.  For example, we all know what a ruthless killing machine KD is when it comes to scoring.  But most of the game, he was clearly instructed to pass/distribute as he clearly passed up open shots, didn't exploit clear mismatches, didn't finish where he normally would.  But then you get to the 4th, and its "oh damn we need buckets" and KD was cold.

Again, they are still meaningless games, but its not encouraging to watch.

[MU82]

He’s woke

Yep. This is what he gets for being a reverse racist -- canceling all the superstar white players who wanted to be on the team. Not to mention him refusing to let Mr. Potato Head be the official toy of Team USA.

#cantwinwithoutsamdekker

[wadesworld]

The players are also used to NBA reffing and international reffing is very different.

[Silkk the Shaka]

Didn't a bunch of them just wrap up their slog of an NBA season? And now they're probably using the exhibition games to try lineups/schemes out, which is what they should be used for?

[wadesworld]

Didn't a bunch of them just wrap up their slog of an NBA season? And now they're probably using the exhibition games to try lineups/schemes out, which is what they should be used for?

It's not like Australia's players weren't just playing in the same NBA season...

[MU82]

USA is 18.5-point fave tonight.

So who's betting big on Argentina?

The line on the actual Olympic opener vs. France opened at -19 but is down to -15.5.

USA is still 1/6 fave to win gold. Australia is next at 9/1, followed by Spain at 10/1.

France at 20/1 and Nigeria at 33/1 could be good value bets, especially if USA really does stink; have at it, people!

[JWags85]

USA is 18.5-point fave tonight.

So who's betting big on Argentina?

The line on the actual Olympic opener vs. France opened at -19 but is down to -15.5.

USA is still 1/6 fave to win gold. Australia is next at 9/1, followed by Spain at 10/1.

France at 20/1 and Nigeria at 33/1 could be good value bets, especially if USA really does stink; have at it, people!

Argentina seems to be the worst of the quad by a decent clip.  They played Australia close but that was the Boomers working out some kinks.  They got shellacked by Nigeria.  Its really just Campazzo and an aged Luis Scola.  The rest of their squad is streaky shooters.  But I don't have any faith in the US to blow anyone out right now.

[tower912]

https://www.nba.com/news/usa-basketball-announces-2021-olympic-team-roster

There is the roster.    It strikes me that Holiday, Middleton, and Booker are still playing.     They will need time to adapt to the system.   The other thing noticeable thing is that this is not an all-star team.   

[JWags85]

https://www.nba.com/news/usa-basketball-announces-2021-olympic-team-roster

There is the roster.    It strikes me that Holiday, Middleton, and Booker are still playing.     They will need time to adapt to the system.   The other thing noticeable thing is that this is not an all-star team.   

I mean, its not an all-star team if you mean Lebron, Steph, AD, and others arent playing.  But outside of Grant, everyone on the roster is on a max deal and has made multiple ASGs.  Well Lavine isnt on a max but is up for one.  And Grant just had a breakout MIP year.

[tower912]

Like all star games, the Olympics have lost their allure for me.   But with all of the wailing and gnashing of teeth due to their losses, I thought I would check out their roster.   Meh.   And 3 playmakers are still playing.   Maybe this will be the second team to underperform.  (I don't count 1972.  That was cheating).  If so, there will be.much blaming, finger pointing, memes and tropes.   

To me, it looks as much a scheduling and compressed season issue as it does a.personnel or coaching issue.

[JWags85]

Like all star games, the Olympics have lost their allure for me.   But with all of the wailing and gnashing of teeth due to their losses, I thought I would check out their roster.   Meh.   And 3 playmakers are still playing.   Maybe this will be the second team to underperform.  (I don't count 1972.  That was cheating).  If so, there will be.much blaming, finger pointing, memes and tropes.   

To me, it looks as much a scheduling and compressed season issue as it does a.personnel or coaching issue.

I hear you to an extent, but the collective shrug at the roster cause Lebron isn’t there is just silly to me.  You have the best scorer on the planet in KD, you have Lillard who has been first or second All NBA the last 5 years, Tatum and Beal who are superstar scorers. Adebayo is the second best player on a team that made the finals last year, averaged double doubles the last 2 years and made All Defensive teams.  Lavine who, while flawed, scores in flurries.

And the problem hasn’t been defense, they can’t score when they need to.  The offense vanishes at times.  It’s not like Booker or Middleton do something the aforementioned scorers can’t.  The offensive woes or confusion is what is making people spaz.

They will figure it out, there is too much talent not to.  But disappearing the entire second half last night, after the Nigeria debacle, is beyond puzzling.

I firmly disagree about Olympic basketball.  If not for the US, I love watching players play in different roles.  Tomas Satoransky is just a guy in the NBA, but he is the engine for the Czechs and he plays like an animal.  Patty Mills in the yellow and green looks more like Steph Curry somehow.  Luka just led Slovenia to their first Olympics ever.  Nigeria is gonna be fun as long as they don’t give Okafor too many minutes that bum

[lawdog77]

Why isn't JFB on the team?

[Dr. Blackheart]

Why isn't JFB on the team?

Short season after bubble Finals, COVID wore him down, Max contract discussions underway.

[Uncle Rico]

Team USA won by 28 tonight

[forgetful]

Team USA won by 28 tonight

Why didn't they win by 40+? Clearly Pop's fault.

[MU82]

This item in an NBA notes column in The Athletic caught my eye:

Across the league, many believe Hawks forward/center John Collins increased his value as a maximum contract-caliber player during Atlanta’s run to the Eastern Conference finals. In 18 postseason games, Collins averaged 13.9 points, 8.7 rebounds and 35.7 percent 3-point shooting.

Really? 14 points, 9 rebounds and 36% 3-point shooting is all it takes to possibly get a max deal? Really? I guess a few teams will see the potential for Collins to increase those numbers significantly. But wow.

[wadesworld]

This item in an NBA notes column in The Athletic caught my eye:

Across the league, many believe Hawks forward/center John Collins increased his value as a maximum contract-caliber player during Atlanta’s run to the Eastern Conference finals. In 18 postseason games, Collins averaged 13.9 points, 8.7 rebounds and 35.7 percent 3-point shooting.

Really? 14 points, 9 rebounds and 36% 3-point shooting is all it takes to possibly get a max deal? Really? I guess a few teams will see the potential for Collins to increase those numbers significantly. But wow.

When you're still only 23 years old, yes.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

When you're still only 23 years old, yes.

Yeah, and it seems these days you can always find trading partners to get rid of these contracts when you have to.  And what's the alternative?  Drafting someone late in the first round and hope they develop?

[cheebs09]

This item in an NBA notes column in The Athletic caught my eye:

Across the league, many believe Hawks forward/center John Collins increased his value as a maximum contract-caliber player during Atlanta’s run to the Eastern Conference finals. In 18 postseason games, Collins averaged 13.9 points, 8.7 rebounds and 35.7 percent 3-point shooting.

Really? 14 points, 9 rebounds and 36% 3-point shooting is all it takes to possibly get a max deal? Really? I guess a few teams will see the potential for Collins to increase those numbers significantly. But wow.

I think this shows that the true max guys are underpaid. It’s why I think people get too hung up on Middleton being a max player thinking that means he should be a top 10 player to justify that. There are a lot of guys with max money that make people scratch their head, but that’s what it takes to sign those guys in free agency.

[jficke13]

Does it also have something to do with the limited quantity of max contracts available to a team? I honestly don't even pay attention to how that works, but I know that even if the Clippers took billionaire money and decided to just throw stupid $s at every free agent, some rule would prevent them from signing 5 max guys...

So the argument becomes less of "Is Collins good" than it is "Is Collins good enough that he justifies spending one of these limited quantities of max deals on him *as opposed to free agent X*?"

[cheebs09]

Does it also have something to do with the limited quantity of max contracts available to a team? I honestly don't even pay attention to how that works, but I know that even if the Clippers took billionaire money and decided to just throw stupid $s at every free agent, some rule would prevent them from signing 5 max guys...

So the argument becomes less of "Is Collins good" than it is "Is Collins good enough that he justifies spending one of these limited quantities of max deals on him *as opposed to free agent X*?"

I agree with this. I also think the consolidation of talent on a few Superteams brings a few max guys onto one team and then they fill their roster with rookies or ring-chasing vets (Matthews, Korver, Tucker) that have already made their money and willing to take a below market deal. You then have 20-25 teams with cap space competing for these lower tier guys that have big contracts being thrown at them.