NBA Thread 2020-21

[Mutaman]

I think he could end up borderline top 10. Besides the obvious greatness, he has changed the way the game is played.

Candidates for lower end of top 10 includes guys like Kobe, Oscar, Duncan, Shaq, Moses, West, Hakeem. I think Steph is in that group.

Does Steph lay defense like Oscar and West? How big a criteria is defense and does his lack thereof eliminate Steph?

[Hards Alumni]

Ah yes, the good old “He should know his place”

No, but he should be more responsible.  He has since deleted the tweet.

I guess he watched the video.

[MU82]

Russell has 5 MVPs (playing against Wilt,Oscar and Baylor) and 11 championships in 13 years. Not to mention what he did in college. have to put him near the top of the list and certainly in the top 5 with the other two centers and Jordan and LaBron,  Would also put the Big O over Bird and Magic. Shaq never led the league in rebounding. Russell led the NBA in rebounds four times, had a dozen consecutive seasons of 1,000 or more rebounds,and remains second all-time in both total rebounds and rebounds per game.

Russell > Shaq for sure IMHO. Ultimate winner, all-time dominant defender and rebounder, even won titles as player/coach. Not as big a scorer, but didn't need to be.

Hard to compare Russell to Bird and Magic. They were such different players, and those two, in addition to being great, were so instrumental to the survival (and then the ascension) of the NBA. I think I'd rate Magic and Bird ahead of Oscar, but he'd be in my top 10.

So that's a pretty obvious top 8: Jordan, James, Russell, Chamberlain, Abdul-Jabbar, Johnson, Bird, Robertson.

Meaning we have Bryant, Curry, West, Moses Malone, Olajuwon, Duncan, Baylor, Erving (especially if we include ABA, and why wouldn't we?), O'Neal, Wade and maybe a couple others contending for the last 2 spots.

Curry certainly belongs in the conversation ... and he just turned 33. Could still have 2-4 outstanding seasons left. Could score 5,000+ more points, maybe win another title, go down as the all-time long-distance sniper.

Today, I'd probably choose Bryant and Erving just off the top of my head, but if I took a deeper look I probably could talk myself into several of the others over one or both of them.

[JWags85]

The one thing that always sticks with me about Russell, and no disrespect to his skills, but he’s often had his titles used to bolster his legacy, which is fine...except that the NBA literally had 8 teams during most of his career, and then only 12 at the end.  That’s a much smaller pond to be a dominant fish

[Plaque Lives Matter!]

No, but he should be more responsible.  He has since deleted the tweet.

I guess he watched the video.

Glad we are back to caring about responsible social media platform usage then. Glad he had the sense to clarify his message.

[MU82]

The one thing that always sticks with me about Russell, and no disrespect to his skills, but he’s often had his titles used to bolster his legacy, which is fine...except that the NBA literally had 8 teams during most of his career, and then only 12 at the end.  That’s a much smaller pond to be a dominant fish

Totally agree.

A counterargument is that he always had to go through the best of his era because talent was concentrated, not spread out over 20 or 25 or 30 teams. Lakers teams he beat had Chamberlain, West, Baylor and Goodrich, for example. The St. Louis Hawks had Pettit, Lovellette, Hagan and Wilkens. Etc. Of course, his Boston teams were the most stacked of all.

Obviously, we can't "prove" anything. It's what makes debates fun. For me, Russell's rebounding, defensive presence, leadership and record as player/coach augment his bazillion titles enough to put him in my top 10 without hesitation.

[JWags85]

Project NBA draft pick Terrance Clarke from UK passed away in a car accident this afternoon. Absolutely awful.  BJ Boston, projected to be a first round pick, was also involved in the accident, but no word yet on his condition.  Clarke had just signed with Klutch yesterday.  Horrible

[Uncle Rico]

Project NBA draft pick Terrance Clarke from UK passed away in a car accident this afternoon. Absolutely awful.  BJ Boston, projected to be a first round pick, was also involved in the accident, but no word yet on his condition.  Clarke had just signed with Klutch yesterday.  Horrible

Oh, no.  That’s terrible. 

[Spotcheck Billy]

A great article in JSOnline about the 50th anniversary of the Bucks championship. A few items: Zopf had to report for Basic training with 18 games left; they think they were possibly the only team that watched film back then; 1st 3 home playoff games had to be played in Madison because the Sports Show was HUGE then.

[JWags85]

Project NBA draft pick Terrance Clarke from UK passed away in a car accident this afternoon. Absolutely awful.  BJ Boston, projected to be a first round pick, was also involved in the accident, but no word yet on his condition.  Clarke had just signed with Klutch yesterday.  Horrible

Well written and tough to read from Cal

https://t.co/BUtwgoqowr

You don’t have to be a fan of his, but I’ve always admired how Cal has handled his one and done model with honesty and player focus.  The UK family is super tight and the UK NBA guys are all quite close despite most bit spending more than a year in Lexington and playing with each other.  That’s a testament to Cal and the culture he has built

[MuggsyB]

Julius Randle is the real deal and deserves tremendous credit.  The guy has worked his ass off to improve his J. He now has a very well rounded game.  I thought he could become a star....but didn't see him becoming a superstar.  Everyone thought he was a tweener.  All of a sudden he's draining 3's like Klay Thompson.

[forgetful]

Julius Randle is the real deal and deserves tremendous credit.  The guy has worked his ass off to improve his J. He now has a very well rounded game.  I thought he could become a star....but didn't see him becoming a superstar.  Everyone thought he was a tweener.  All of a sudden he's draining 3's like Klay Thompson.

He's a guy that strongly supports an argument I've made before that I get roasted for.

He made the right choice in asking out of LA when Lebron signed. He wouldn't be the player he is now had he stayed. Lebron makes players like him worse. Its the same reason Ball was better away from LA, and why Shroder doesn't want to stay in LA. They all are made worse playing besides Lebron. (Similar frustrations for Kyrie).

Lebron always has had to have the ball in his hands to be most effective. He is not particularly effective off ball, he doesn't move well, and isn't an effective enough shooter. That means any player that is also better with the ball in their hands (e.g. PGs, or similar point forwards) are worse with Lebron.

Randle is playing comparable to Lebron pre-injury. He'd be an also ran on the Lakers.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

He's a guy that strongly supports an argument I've made before that I get roasted for.

He made the right choice in asking out of LA when Lebron signed. He wouldn't be the player he is now had he stayed. Lebron makes players like him worse. Its the same reason Ball was better away from LA, and why Shroder doesn't want to stay in LA. They all are made worse playing besides Lebron. (Similar frustrations for Kyrie).

Lebron always has had to have the ball in his hands to be most effective. He is not particularly effective off ball, he doesn't move well, and isn't an effective enough shooter. That means any player that is also better with the ball in their hands (e.g. PGs, or similar point forwards) are worse with Lebron.

Randle is playing comparable to Lebron pre-injury. He'd be an also ran on the Lakers.

Lakers wouldn't have won a championship without Lebron so I doubt anyone is missing them.

[forgetful]

Lakers wouldn't have won a championship without Lebron so I doubt anyone is missing them.

To be fair, I think there was zero chance they win the championship if it wasn't for the bubble. The bubble benefitted them and the Heat a lot. They also wouldn't have won a championship if the Heat were healthy.

And, to be clear, my comment above is not to take anything away from Lebron. It is simply they type of player he is.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

To be fair, I think there was zero chance they win the championship if it wasn't for the bubble. The bubble benefitted them and the Heat a lot. They also wouldn't have won a championship if the Heat were healthy.

Zero chance?  Not sure why you would say that.  They were the #1 seed in the West, and #2 overall, before the Bubble even started.

[MU82]

He's a guy that strongly supports an argument I've made before that I get roasted for.

He made the right choice in asking out of LA when Lebron signed. He wouldn't be the player he is now had he stayed. Lebron makes players like him worse. Its the same reason Ball was better away from LA, and why Shroder doesn't want to stay in LA. They all are made worse playing besides Lebron. (Similar frustrations for Kyrie).

Lebron always has had to have the ball in his hands to be most effective. He is not particularly effective off ball, he doesn't move well, and isn't an effective enough shooter. That means any player that is also better with the ball in their hands (e.g. PGs, or similar point forwards) are worse with Lebron.

Randle is playing comparable to Lebron pre-injury. He'd be an also ran on the Lakers.

My friend, you have repeatedly admitted that you dislike LeBron and don’t respect him as a basketball player, so any point you try to make about him is tainted by your bias.

But it’s cool that he has made all 4 of his championship teams worse, as well as all of his other NBA Finals teams.

He might be the worst player in basketball history. How has he even won a single regular-season game, with all the teammates he’s made bad and all the teams he’s ruined?

[lawdog77]

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/31344010/golden-state-warriors-become-first-pro-team-launch-nft-collection

Can someone explain to this old guy why this is "the wave of the future?"

[Jockey]

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/31344010/golden-state-warriors-become-first-pro-team-launch-nft-collection

Can someone explain to this old guy why this is "the wave of the future?"

$$$$$$$$$$$$

It's a moneymaker.

[lawdog77]

$$$$$$$$$$$$

It's a moneymaker.

But why? Why do people want to buy virtual ticket stubs, or video highlights (of NBA games)?

[muwarrior69]

Totally agree.

A counterargument is that he always had to go through the best of his era because talent was concentrated, not spread out over 20 or 25 or 30 teams. Lakers teams he beat had Chamberlain, West, Baylor and Goodrich, for example. The St. Louis Hawks had Pettit, Lovellette, Hagan and Wilkens. Etc. Of course, his Boston teams were the most stacked of all.

Obviously, we can't "prove" anything. It's what makes debates fun. For me, Russell's rebounding, defensive presence, leadership and record as player/coach augment his bazillion titles enough to put him in my top 10 without hesitation.

The game was different as well. During the Russel Chamberlain era big centers and forwards dominated the game as there was no 3pt line to defend. As great as they were I doubt they would dominate in todays game like they did back then, but will never know.

[JWags85]

But why? Why do people want to buy virtual ticket stubs, or video highlights (of NBA games)?

Same reason people would pay for autographs, signed jerseys, etc...  Its a new form of memorabilia.  Honestly, I feel like owning an NFT of an incredible highlight is much cooler and meaningful than a signed poster or 8x10 and people pay hundreds of dollars for those.

[MU82]

The game was different as well. During the Russel Chamberlain era big centers and forwards dominated the game as there was no 3pt line to defend. As great as they were I doubt they would dominate in todays game like they did back then, but will never know.

Rudy Gobert starts and plays 31 mpg for the team with the NBA's best record. He had $75M career earnings entering this season, and he signed a 5-year, $205M/year contract extension a few months ago.

He is half the player Chamberlain and Russell were.

Oh, and he has taken six 3-pointers in his entire career, missing them all.

So please.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

So why hasn't a Chamberlain, Russell or Jabbar like big man emerge over the last 20 years or so?  Basketball is more of a worldwide game and played by more people than ever, but the big man of a past era barely exists any longer.

The fact is the game is different.  The skills that they brought really aren't valued as much.  You bring up Gobert, but he is fifth on the team in FGA and TENTH in usage.  At his peak Jabbar lead his team in FGA almost every year, and was second or third in usage behind Magic and someone else.

If Jabbar were here now, he would no doubt be used more than Gobert.  But are the Jazz running the offense through him like the Lakers did?  Doubtful.

[muwarrior69]

Rudy Gobert starts and plays 31 mpg for the team with the NBA's best record. He had $75M career earnings entering this season, and he signed a 5-year, $205M/year contract extension a few months ago.

He is half the player Chamberlain and Russell were.

Oh, and he has taken six 3-pointers in his entire career, missing them all.

So please.

With today's sharp shooters I doubt Wilt would ever score 100 points in a game. Back then the big centers were scoring machines as the guards fed them the ball. Today the big guys kick out to the 3pt line.

[MU82]

So why hasn't a Chamberlain, Russell or Jabbar like big man emerge over the last 20 years or so?  Basketball is more of a worldwide game and played by more people than ever, but the big man of a past era barely exists any longer.

The fact is the game is different.  The skills that they brought really aren't valued as much.  You bring up Gobert, but he is fifth on the team in FGA and TENTH in usage.  At his peak Jabbar lead his team in FGA almost every year, and was second or third in usage behind Magic and someone else.

If Jabbar were here now, he would no doubt be used more than Gobert.  But are the Jazz running the offense through him like the Lakers did?  Doubtful.

We don't know how one of today's NBA coaches would use a singularly talented big man, but I suspect you're probably right that any of the star bigs from yesteryear would not get the kind of touches they used to get. The game has changed and that makes sense.

Nevertheless, I get a kick out of those who think that Rudy Gobert can earn $40M a year starting for the team with the NBA's best record ... but Kareem, Wilt and Russell would have trouble finding a job or something because they wouldn't have shot 3s.

Maybe it would depend on one of them being lucky enough to be coached by Quin Snyder.