NBA Thread 2020-21

[forgetful]

Magic? But probably Lebron.

I can't imagine Harden has had that many 0 assist games.

Interesting stat.

Before Anthony Davis got hurt, the Lakers were 21-6.

After Davis got hurt, and before Lebron got hurt they went 7-8.

After beating Utah tonight, the Lakers are now 7-8 since Lebron got hurt.

It will be interesting to see how they do when Davis comes back.

[JWags85]

I'm disappointed in you all.  My only hint is he is not a Hall of Famer.

Knowing you, it’s probably Muggsy

[MuggsyB]

Knowing you, it’s probably Muggsy

Bam!! 

46 times Bogues achieved this feat!

In all seriousness that's incredibly impressive.  To think at his height he was so skilled as to rarely turn it over is a testament to his ball-handling, decision making, and prime-time zoomability.  He never gets the credit he deserves for his ball-handling.  Is it because he wasn't flashy like Uncle Drew?

[Spotcheck Billy]

Muggsy is the reason I'm a WF fan, granted I lived in W-S the same time he was at WF.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Bam!! 

46 times Bogues achieved this feat!

In all seriousness that's incredibly impressive.  To think at his height he was so skilled as to rarely turn it over is a testament to his ball-handling, decision making, and prime-time zoomability.  He never gets the credit he deserves for his ball-handling.  Is it because he wasn't flashy like Uncle Drew?

It’s because he was a good, but not great player, who played on a lot of good but not great teams, and last played 20 years ago.

I mean the guy never made an all star team.

[MuggsyB]

Muggsy is the reason I'm a WF fan, granted I lived in W-S the same time he was at WF.

I'm envious!  I've only watched him on video and have not seen his WF games   I enjoyed the 30/30 "Baltimore Boys" if you haven't seen it.

[JWags85]

Bam!! 

46 times Bogues achieved this feat!

In all seriousness that's incredibly impressive.  To think at his height he was so skilled as to rarely turn it over is a testament to his ball-handling, decision making, and prime-time zoomability.  He never gets the credit he deserves for his ball-handling.  Is it because he wasn't flashy like Uncle Drew?

I’d argue that his height actually contributed to his lack of turnovers as much as anything.  Keeping your dribble low is always taught as way to keep control and prevent steals, well he could dribble at his waist and be way lower than a 6 foot PG.

Also, the Kyrie comparison is just not a good one.  Muggsy was never a scorer, I think he averaged more than 10 points twice.  That’s a very different type of handles than someone like Kyrie who is breaking people down off the dribble to get to the rim and get himself open for jumpers.  He may be an enigma and a difficult teammate but what he does with a basketball is absolutely sublime. I’ve never seen a Muggsy highlight in the same realm.

[MuggsyB]

I’d argue that his height actually contributed to his lack of turnovers as much as anything.  Keeping your dribble low is always taught as way to keep control and prevent steals, well he could dribble at his waist and be way lower than a 6 foot PG.

Also, the Kyrie comparison is just not a good one.  Muggsy was never a scorer, I think he averaged more than 10 points twice.  That’s a very different type of handles than someone like Kyrie who is breaking people down off the dribble to get to the rim and get himself open for jumpers.  He may be an enigma and a difficult teammate but what he does with a basketball is absolutely sublime. I’ve never seen a Muggsy highlight in the same realm.

Yes, Kyrie has more flash and the ball is in his hands more.  We can also add Curry to this discussion.  However, the question is, even as a scorer, are you a better ball-handler if you turn ball over 3 times as much as another guy as a PG?

 I realize I am biased but Muggsy by all accounts could not be pressed.  Now you can say this is because he was lower to the ground, but his vertical and lateral quickness is superior to anyone I've ever seen.  That includes Iverson. 

He blew by guys when they tried to pressure like Shaq dominated the paint in his prime or a Walrus dominates clams.  I don't think people realize the level of quickness that we're talking about.  This attribute made it nearly impossible to pressure him even from guys with great length that could disrupt his passing.  All I'm saying is he absolutely should be in the discussion among the greatest ball-handlers imo.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Muggsy was really great except for the couple weeks the Monstars stole his talent

[JWags85]

Yes, Kyrie has more flash and the ball is in his hands more.  We can also add Curry to this discussion.  However, the question is, even as a scorer, are you a better ball-handler if you turn ball over 3 times as much as another guy as a PG?

 I realize I am biased but Muggsy by all accounts could not be pressed.  Now you can say this is because he was lower to the ground, but his vertical and lateral quickness is superior to anyone I've ever seen.  That includes Iverson. 

He blew by guys when they tried to pressure like Shaq dominated the paint in his prime or a Walrus dominates clams.  I don't think people realize the level of quickness that we're talking about.  This attribute made it nearly impossible to pressure him even from guys with great length that could disrupt his passing.  All I'm saying is he absolutely should be in the discussion among the greatest ball-handlers imo.

He was very quick and shifty, there is no denying that, but his ball handling was very much straight line.  Press him and he’d blow past you up court.  There isn’t a ton of film on him carving guys up on the perimeter.  Creating space with devastating crossovers or wizardry, etc...He wasn’t even the best ball handlers of his contemporaries with guys like Tim Hardaway and Isiah Thomas. Then you add in the Iverson, Curry, Kyrie, Maravich, Chris Paul set.

Bogues was a unique talent and I know he’s your guy, but there is a reason he was never an All Star and isn’t talked about as an all time great in even a category like ball handling.  Cause he was always “very good” at his peak, but not all time great level

[MU82]

Yes, Kyrie has more flash and the ball is in his hands more.  We can also add Curry to this discussion.  However, the question is, even as a scorer, are you a better ball-handler if you turn ball over 3 times as much as another guy as a PG?

Yes, we can argue just that.

Irving, Curry, Iverson, etc, took/take many more chances than Bogues did, often driving into the lane to either set up themselves or their teammates. That's how their offenses functioned. They weren't/aren't just making a bounce pass to LJ or Mourning on the block, standing back, and watching the big guys go to work.

I liked Muggsy as a player, but let's be real about how good he was. He was good. The others much better than good.

[MuggsyB]

I haven't argued he's as good as these players a single time in this discussion.  I'm specifically talking about his ability to handle the basketball.  Full disclosure I was 5-10 yrs old during Muggsy's prime but have watched quite a bit of video.  He primarily went downhill or laterally without yo-yoing like a Kyrie, Iverson, Curry, etc. 

He was a pass first guy always, since he was a child.  Just because he didn't attack to score doesn't mean he could not yo-yo for a step-back or what have you.  It wasn't his game as he could get to any spot he wanted to without the flash.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

I haven't argued he's as good as these players a single time in this discussion.  I'm specifically talking about his ability to handle the basketball.  Full disclosure I was 5-10 yrs old during Muggsy's prime but have watched quite a bit of video.  He primarily went downhill or laterally without yo-yoing like a Kyrie, Iverson, Curry, etc. 

He was a pass first guy always, since he was a child.  Just because he didn't attack to score doesn't mean he could not yo-yo for a step-back or what have you.  It wasn't his game as he could get to any spot he wanted to without the flash.

I saw him play live back in the day.  Yeah he was a good ball handling PG, but he could not get to any spot he wanted to - at least consistently.  Backcourts with size gave him troubles.  Again, he was good, but not great.  And if you throw his size in there, he did the absolute most with his abilities.  But if I'm picking the best point guards of his era, he's not in my top 10.

[MuggsyB]

I saw him play live back in the day.  Yeah he was a good ball handling PG, but he could not get to any spot he wanted to - at least consistently.  Backcourts with size gave him troubles.  Again, he was good, but not great.  And if you throw his size in there, he did the absolute most with his abilities.  But if I'm picking the best point guards of his era, he's not in my top 10.

I'm sure you're being fair FBM.  At the same time our diminutive citizens are often overlooked. 

[JWags85]

Sterling Brown was jumped outside of a nightclub in Miami and got hit in the head with a bottle.  Good lord, dude can’t catch a break

[MuggsyB]

Sterling Brown was jumped outside of a nightclub in Miami and got hit in the head with a bottle.  Good lord, dude can’t catch a break

He was targeted or was it a random thing?

[MuggsyB]

Curry is still absolutely ridiculous.  40+ again tonight.

[Jockey]

Curry is still absolutely ridiculous.  40+ again tonight.

He ain’t human.

[forgetful]

Curry is still absolutely ridiculous.  40+ again tonight.

Curry is truly one of a kind. Just absurdly amazing basketball player.

This season every team knows to shut him down. They are often running two defenders at him non-stop. he still beats them. No player like him right now in terms of domination.

[JWags85]

Curry is truly one of a kind. Just absurdly amazing basketball player.

This season every team knows to shut him down. They are often running two defenders at him non-stop. he still beats them. No player like him right now in terms of domination.

Curry has no superstar with him with has to carry the team with constant double teams.  People were making fun of him and the Warriors early in the year, how he couldn’t play without a star and carry a team.

So what has he done in April?  Over 10 games, he’s averaging 41 pts on 51% 3pt shooting on 14 attempts per game.  LMAO.  WTF man.  I mean, that’s playing NBA2K on beginner mode.

I also saw a graphic, after tonight, he has 21 games with 10 or more 3PT made.  Klay Thompson is second with 5 games.  Nobody else has more than 3....STEPH HAS 4 IN APRIL ALONE.  There are simply not proper superlatives for him

[MuggsyB]

Curry has no superstar with him with has to carry the team with constant double teams.  People were making fun of him and the Warriors early in the year, how he couldn’t play without a star and carry a team.

So what has he done in April?  Over 10 games, he’s averaging 41 pts on 51% 3pt shooting on 14 attempts per game.  LMAO.  WTF man.  I mean, that’s playing NBA2K on beginner mode.

I also saw a graphic, after tonight, he has 21 games with 10 or more 3PT made.  Klay Thompson is second with 5 games.  Nobody else has more than 3....STEPH HAS 4 IN APRIL ALONE.  There are simply not proper superlatives for him

How about this stat:  Curry has 20 games of 10 or more triples.  Number two is Klay Thompson with 5 and then there are several with 3.  So in the last 10 games he's tied for 3rd all time with 10 triples in a single game. 

[MU82]

Not only is Curry the best shooter I've ever seen, he's easily the best player among those who are described first as "shooters." He is so much more than just a 3-point shooter, but he is so great in that incredible, valuable skill that the rest of his game is often overlooked.

[JWags85]

How about this stat:  Curry has 20 games of 10 or more triples.  Number two is Klay Thompson with 5 and then there are several with 3.  So in the last 10 games he's tied for 3rd all time with 10 triples in a single game. 

Did you just rephrase my last paragraph in a more confusing way as a new stat? 

Not only is Curry the best shooter I've ever seen, he's easily the best player among those who are described first as "shooters." He is so much more than just a 3-point shooter, but he is so great in that incredible, valuable skill that the rest of his game is often overlooked.

Completely.  Honestly, after the Davidson run that shattered the Badgers hearts and won my favor forever, I kind of forgot about him for a few years.  He was good but not super remarkable those first few years.  But the 2013 playoffs is where I was completely sold.  And it wasn’t even his shooting, it was his passing.  There was so much flare and skill and precision.  And people got sick of the dancing and celebrations when they were juggernauts, but it was the same with him and Klay then, before he had even made an ASG.  It was just “holy hell” at his vision, his cajones to make the daring play, all before becoming a sniper from 35.

And we talked about it in previous posts, but if he wasn’t the best shooter of all time, people would talk about his dribbling WAYYY more.  This was from tonight

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4Heb1c6ClmM

He makes 3 dribbles including a cross between the legs and behind his back without the ball getting more than a foot from his body, which is enough to get even a savvy experienced defender off kilter and then he’s toast.  He’d be the best ball handler in the league if not for Kyrie.  Which is preposterous given what a shooter he is.

[GooooMarquette]

Curry has no superstar with him with has to carry the team with constant double teams.  People were making fun of him and the Warriors early in the year, how he couldn’t play without a star and carry a team.

So what has he done in April?  Over 10 games, he’s averaging 41 pts on 51% 3pt shooting on 14 attempts per game.  LMAO.  WTF man.  I mean, that’s playing NBA2K on beginner mode.

I also saw a graphic, after tonight, he has 21 games with 10 or more 3PT made.  Klay Thompson is second with 5 games.  Nobody else has more than 3....STEPH HAS 4 IN APRIL ALONE.  There are simply not proper superlatives for him

Curry has just been an absolute joy to watch the past couple of weeks. That graphic about the number of 10+3PT games is remarkable. They also mentioned during the game tonight that he is the first guy in NBA history to have 50+ three-pointers over a six game stretch.

Like you said, he makes you run out of superlatives.

[MuggsyB]

Curry has just been an absolute joy to watch the past couple of weeks. That graphic about the number of 10+3PT games is remarkable. They also mentioned during the game tonight that he is the first guy in NBA history to have 50+ three-pointers over a six game stretch.

Like you said, he makes you run out of superlatives.

I haven't followed very closely but is there a reason he's nor in the MVP discussion?  Would that team win 15 games without him?