More conference realignment talk

[Shooter McGavin]

This is somewhat unfortunate because I always thought they could be a good addition to the BE.

Even if they join the AAC I would think they would jump ship if the Big East wanted the them.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Even if they join the AAC I would think they would jump ship if the Big East wanted the them.

Unless they also want to start a football program.

[StillAWarrior]

Unless they also want to start a football program.

Honestly, if someone wanted to start a new football program, one could argue that the Big East might be a better place to do that and play football in the Patriot League.

It's one of the things that always strikes me funny when people argue for football at Marquette.  People have a tendency to romanticize what a football program will look like; they need to understand it's going to look a lot more like Georgetown or Duquesne than Notre Dame. And there's nothing inherently wrong with that, but people should understand that when they're asking to start a new program, this is what they're asking for.

[Dr. Blackheart]

If the Big East is adding, that's also another reason to think Gavitt Games might be on hold. Trying to put a positive spin on that.

Or awaiting the merger of the Mountain West into the New PAC XX?

[El Guerrero 2]

Longshot - Maybe they are floating this rumor to apply some leverage in regards to the Big East?

If so, that is a dumb strategy. We just took UConn from the AAC but we wouldn’t be able to poach VCU? They should focus on winning more basketball games if they are looking for an invite to a big boy league.

[Scoop Snoop]

Longshot - Maybe they are floating this rumor to apply some leverage in regards to the Big East?

Oh, I would not doubt that for a moment. Their band put on a great performance right in front of MSG one morning during the BET, with their Ram mascot wandering around in the crowd of very pleased spectators. I had about a one-minute chat with their band director as they were getting ready to depart. He told me that Shaka stays in touch with him and that he spoke to him about a week earlier. VCU was playing in Brooklyn at the same time as BET, so I think it would be naive to think that the band's performance at MSG was casually planned. I think they just wanted to get the BE's attention with a friendly stunt.

I keep hoping they will be added as my wife and I could attend the Richmond game vs. not just MU but also other BE teams, and it would be a day trip for us. The enthusiasm of VCU fans, whether associated with the university or area residents, is exceptional. They are very serious bball fans.

A couple of Richmond reps in the Virginia General Assembly tried very hard to persuade VCU to get into FB quite a few years ago, but VCU did not want FB and the matter died. Then, there was plenty of old industrial space to clear to build a stadium. But now? Huge apartment buildings, micro breweries, restaurants etc. have taken over so much of that space. I have not heard a word about FB even being considered for years.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

If so, that is a dumb strategy. We just took UConn from the AAC but we wouldn’t be able to poach VCU? They should focus on winning more basketball games if they are looking for an invite to a big boy league.

They've been a pretty regular NCAA tournament participant.

[shoothoops]

If so, that is a dumb strategy. We just took UConn from the AAC but we wouldn’t be able to poach VCU? They should focus on winning more basketball games if they are looking for an invite to a big boy league.

VCU has made the NCAA Tourney the same number of times as Marquette the past 20 years, 13. When Marquette was invited to a "Big Boy League," it had made 2 of the previous 8 NCAA Tourneys.

I'm all for a successful MUBB program and league, but these types of comments make me laugh.

[Viper]

VCU has made the NCAA Tourney the same number of times as Marquette the past 20 years, 13. When Marquette was invited to a "Big Boy League," it had made 2 of the previous 8 NCAA Tourneys.

I'm all for a successful MUBB program and league, but these types of comments make me laugh.

ok, but will you agree VCU doesn’t have a basketball pedigree as Marquette does? Will you agree VCU hasn’t had player talent over the last, say, 20 yrs as Marquette has had…the basketball budget…the facilities that MU has? VCU has definitely carved a niche, a solid fan base amongst a number of marquee tobacco road programs, but VCU isn’t necessarily a national draw as I see it. Equal ncaa tournament bids over 20 years is excellent, but not so sure VCU and MU are equal programs.

[shoothoops]

ok, but will you agree VCU doesn’t have a basketball pedigree as Marquette does? Will you agree VCU hasn’t had player talent over the last, say, 20 yrs as Marquette has had…the basketball budget…the facilities that MU has? VCU has definitely carved a niche, a solid fan base amongst a number of marquee tobacco road programs, but VCU isn’t necessarily a national draw as I see it. Equal ncaa tournament bids over 20 years is excellent, but not so sure VCU and MU are equal programs.

I didn’t compare VCU and Marquette to identify which team or program was better. I replied to a specific comment. and, I used factual evidence in response to it. Let’s take a look.

Pedigree? That is ancestry. Butler for example made exactly one NCAA Tourney in its history prior to 1997. And that was 1962. Is that pedigree?

Would you agree that all of those $ advantages for MUBB makes it easier for them to be more competitive on an annual basis than VCU. So what you are saying is that VCU’s similar accomplishment during that time is more  impressive given all of their disadvantages compared to MUBB? That’s how it comes across.

I think most people would acknowledge that it’s much easier to get to the NCAA Tourney from the Big East than non Power 6 leagues. And what you are discounting is that teams new to the league will often elevate their spending, budget, facilities, recruiting, success etc once in the league.

Creighton for example has made the NCAA tourney 7 times in its 10 years in the Big East. Prior to that it took them 13 years to do it. And they made it 4 times the previous 20 years.

What I specifically replied to were the words that VCU needed to win more games to be in a big boy league like the Big East. The insecure dismissive arrogance combined with factual evidence, made me laugh.

DePaul has made the NCAA Tourney twice in the past 30 years. St. Johns has made it 3 times in the past 20 years. Georgetown 3 in the past 10 years. But at least they missed all of those years in a “Big Boy League.”

Again, I’m all for MUBB doing well, and I’m all for a strong Big East. But silly is silly to me.

[El Guerrero 2]

VCU has made one S16 in its entire history. That is 1/16th the number as compared to Marquette. Adding Butler looks questionable in retrospect. Does Richmond even add a market when you already have DC? Winning the Colonial is great and all, and they’ve done well in a down A10 since joining, but does anyone really doubt they’d be bottomfeeders if they joined the Big East? They’ve been there for the taking for a decade and there is no smoke anywhere.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

VCU has made one S16 in its entire history. That is 1/16th the number as compared to Marquette. Adding Butler looks questionable in retrospect. Does Richmond even add a market when you already have DC? Winning the Colonial is great and all, and they’ve done well in a down A10 since joining, but does anyone really doubt they’d be bottomfeeders if they joined the Big East? They’ve been there for the taking for a decade and there is no smoke anywhere.

I don’t think VCU would be bottom feeders in the BE.

[Scoop Snoop]

VCU has made one S16 in its entire history. That is 1/16th the number as compared to Marquette. Adding Butler looks questionable in retrospect. Does Richmond even add a market when you already have DC? Winning the Colonial is great and all, and they’ve done well in a down A10 since joining, but does anyone really doubt they’d be bottomfeeders if they joined the Big East? They’ve been there for the taking for a decade and there is no smoke anywhere.

 VCU was in the Final Four in 2011, having defeated USC, Georgetown, and Purdue by double digits enroute in Shaka's second season as their coach.

Also, I lived in Richmond for over 20 years and half of my company's business was in the DC area. They are totally different markets. Unlike you, I know this.

I doubt that VCU will receive an invite to the BE due to its market size, but shoothoop's comments-"insecure, dismissive arrogance"-sums it up nicely..

[Uncle Rico]

Careful! Your ignorance is on full display. VCU was in the Final Four in 2011, having defeated USC, Georgetown, and Purdue by double digits enroute in Shaka's second season as their coach.

Also, I lived in Richmond for over 20 years and half of my company's business was in the DC area. They are totally different markets. Unlike you, I know this. Again, your ignorance is on full display.

I doubt that VCU will receive an invite to the BE due to its market size, but shoothoop's comments-"insecure, dismissive arrogance"-sums it up nicely..

I’d rather have Richmond than VCU

[WhiteTrash]

I think most people would acknowledge that it’s much easier to get to the NCAA Tourney from the Big East than non Power 6 leagues.

I would not be most people. IMO, most people in the know would say the exact opposite. Just my opinion.

I'd guess there are 15-20 teams in the tournament each year that would never make it if they were in the Big East.

[shoothoops]

VCU has made one S16 in its entire history. That is 1/16th the number as compared to Marquette. Adding Butler looks questionable in retrospect. Does Richmond even add a market when you already have DC? Winning the Colonial is great and all, and they’ve done well in a down A10 since joining, but does anyone really doubt they’d be bottomfeeders if they joined the Big East? They’ve been there for the taking for a decade and there is no smoke anywhere.

Are you sitting down?

What if I told you the MUBB Head Coach has made the Sweet 16 once in 14 seasons as a Head Coach? And, he’s coaching in a Big Boy League. New Shaka Smart nickname: Bottom Feeder.

And since I know you want to compare apples to apples, MUBB made the Sweet 16 prior to the Big East, twice in the previous 26 seasons. (for those wondering its 3 Sweet 16’s or better in 17 seasons in the Big East)

St. John’s has made the Sweet 16 twice in the past 38 seasons.

DePaul has made the Sweet 16 zero times in the past 36 seasons.

Georgetown has made the Sweet 16 twice in the past 22 seasons.

Wait until you find out that this past year’s NCAA Runner Up, San Diego State, had only made the Sweet 16 twice in their history prior to last season. And did someone say pedigree? They have zero before 2011.

You see how this works, yes?

[shoothoops]

I would not be most people. IMO, most people in the know would say the exact opposite. Just my opinion.

I'd guess there are 15-20 teams in the tournament each year that would never make it if they were in the Big East.

In non Power 6 leagues, often times a team will have a great regular season, win their league, or make the top few, but lose in their conference tourney and not make the NCAA Tourney. This is happens a lot.

It comes down to a conference tourney, and, MUBB fans know well MUBB’s lack of a strong history in conference tourneys. Big East schools have more ability to rely upon its regular season results to get in the NCAA Tourney. 11 teams, and half or so of the league can make the NCAA Tourney. That isn’t the case in smaller leagues.

What you are also doing is comparing apples to oranges by saying how many NCAA Tourneys does xyz make in a non Power 6 league vs in a power 6 league.

VCU to use the above example, has won 70% or more of its league games 8 times in the past 11 seasons in the A10. (and 4 of 6 prior to that).

MUBB has won 70% or more of its league games 7 times since they joined a league in the late 1980’s.

Again. so that no one misunderstands, I’m all for MUBB doing well and I’m all for a strong Big East. But the Big Boy League insecure arrogance stuff can relax a little bit.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Marquette is a much better basketball program than VCU.

The Big East is also a "big boy league" and the A10 is not.

I think VCU would do great in the Big East. If Gonzaga and current P6 schools were not available and the Big East needed to expand, VCU would be on the shortlist for me, might even be my top choice.

[shoothoops]

Marquette is a much better basketball program than VCU.

The Big East is also a "big boy league" and the A10 is not.

I think VCU would do great in the Big East. If Gonzaga and current P6 schools were not available and the Big East needed to expand, VCU would be on the shortlist for me, might even be my top choice.

Marquette entered the Big East from Conference USA.

[Coleman]

The Big East should stick with 11 teams if VCU is a serious suggestion.

I am not against expansion if it is reserved for really good programs or historic programs with traditional rivalries with existing members (Gonzaga and Syracuse immediately come to mind). VCU is not a value add.

If we lose members to realignment (UConn to Big12 for example), I'd be ok adding them to fill the hole, but there is absolutely no reason to add them when we already have 11 teams. They aren't going anywhere. We could add them at any time if truly needed.

[Coleman]

Marquette entered the Big East from Conference USA.

That Conference USA was very different then, it was arguably a power conference as it included teams that are now part of power conferences such as Louisville, Cincinnati, TCU, SMU, Central Florida. Obviously it also had some teams that are now considered mid-majors but Conference USA at the time was, at the very least as good, if not better, than the AAC is today.

[Uncle Rico]

The Big East should stick with 11 teams if VCU is a serious suggestion.

I am not against expansion if it is reserved for really good programs or historic programs with traditional rivalries with existing members (Gonzaga and Syracuse immediately come to mind). VCU is not a value add.

If we lose members to realignment (UConn to Big12 for example), I'd be ok adding them to fill the hole, but there is absolutely no reason to add them when we already have 11 teams. They aren't going anywhere. We could add them at any time if truly needed.

100%

[shoothoops]

That Conference USA was very different then, it was arguably a power conference as it included teams that are now part of power conferences such as Louisville, Cincinnati, TCU, SMU, Central Florida. Obviously it also had some teams that are now considered mid-majors but Conference USA at the time was, at the very least as good, if not better, than the AAC is today.

Xavier and Butler played in the A10 before entering the Big East.

St. Joes made the Elite 8 the year after MUBB made the Final Four, something something pedigree.

Silly season.

[Galway Eagle]

That Conference USA was very different then, it was arguably a power conference as it included teams that are now part of power conferences such as Louisville, Cincinnati, TCU, SMU, Central Florida. Obviously it also had some teams that are now considered mid-majors but Conference USA at the time was, at the very least as good, if not better, than the AAC is today.

The top of CUSA had Charlotte Memphis Louisville Cincinnati, a better iteration of DePaul and us. I wouldn't use SMU UCF or that version of TCU to make this argument.

Xavier and Butler played in the A10 before entering the Big East.

St. Joes made the Elite 8 the year after MUBB made the Final Four, something something pedigree.

Silly season.

Butler was in the A10 for 1 year, they weren't an A10 team. Zero players in that roster were recruited to be A10 players.

Marquette is a much better basketball program than VCU.

The Big East is also a "big boy league" and the A10 is not.

I think VCU would do great in the Big East. If Gonzaga and current P6 schools were not available and the Big East needed to expand, VCU would be on the shortlist for me, might even be my top choice.

A10 has had a decent few years this past decade finishing above the PAC12 & ACC in NET (or RPI back in the old days) not saying it's a big boy league but certainly above 90% of the crap that's out there.


All this to say yes we're snobby and dismissive of VCU, I doubt they'd replicate Creighton's success but I don't think they'd fall flat either. Too committed for that to happen.

[shoothoops]

The top of CUSA had Charlotte Memphis Louisville Cincinnati, a better iteration of DePaul and us. I wouldn't use SMU UCF or that version of TCU to make this argument.

Butler was in the A10 for 1 year, they weren't an A10 team. Zero players in that roster were recruited to be A10 players.

A10 has had a decent few years this past decade finishing above the PAC12 & ACC in NET (or RPI back in the old days) not saying it's a big boy league but certainly above 90% of the crap that's out there.


All this to say yes we're snobby and dismissive of VCU, I doubt they'd replicate Creighton's success but I don't think they'd fall flat either. Too committed for that to happen.

“Yes we’re snobby and dismissive.”

Marquette made the NCAA Tourney 6 times in the previous 22 seasons before entering the Big East.