More conference realignment talk

[MUeng]

Well written piece indeed. I like the simple point about bama and miss still getting the same check in this new paradigm. How long will that be tolerated by greedy admins at the top?

[avid1010]

Would it ever make sense for conferences like the BEAST and Big 12 to merge?

[HutchwasClutch]

Well written piece indeed. I like the simple point about bama and miss still getting the same check in this new paradigm. How long will that be tolerated by greedy admins at the top?

Yep, that got my attention too. That day is coming.  Maybe a few years off, but wait for it. 

[Dickthedribbler]

This is a great column. I couldn’t agree more with everything.  A bunch of money and power whores everyone involved.  Everyone else in our way, screw you.  And the columnist is right too that it doesn’t end with this round.  Am unquenchable thirst for power and greed. 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/college/columnist/dan-wolken/2023/08/03/college-sports-ruined-failed-leaders-expansion-ncaa-pac-12/70519616007/

Thanks Hutch. Excellent article and spot on, IMO.

[MU82]

Raleigh News & Observer article about UNC AD Bubba Cunningham telling coaches and staff that they are not leaving the ACC. It's behind a paywall, so here's the lead for those interested:

Even before it was official that Oregon and Washington were fleeing the wreckage of the Pac-12 for the Big Ten, it had been such a crazy week in the no-holds-barred world of conference realignment — thanks in large part to the constant yipping out of Tallahassee — that North Carolina athletic director Bubba Cunningham held a call with his department Friday morning to tell them UNC was not leaving the ACC.

That’s what passes for breaking news these days in college sports. Nothing is actually something.

“When the news cycle starts spinning like this, I have the obligation to let our staff know what I know and reassure them we’re going to be OK,” Cunningham said later Friday. “That I value what they do. That the university values what they do. That’s my role, to reassure them that things are going to be fine.”

And as for UNC? “We have a $137 million budget,” Cunningham said. “We have 285 employees. Eight hundred student-athletes. We’re going to host 200 events this year. Over a million people are going to come to our games. We’re in good shape.”

Kind of like a "vote of confidence" for a coach who gets fired anyway?

[WhiteTrash]

Well written piece indeed. I like the simple point about bama and miss still getting the same check in this new paradigm. How long will that be tolerated by greedy admins at the top?

I agree but as the teams consolidate some teams have to finish in the bottom of the conference. What is the tolerance at Auburn or Penn State or Florida or Wisconsin to be sub-.500 teams?

In other pro sports there are revenue sharing, salary caps and drafts to create structural paths to competitiveness.

[WhiteTrash]

Raleigh News & Observer article about UNC AD Bubba Cunningham telling coaches and staff that they are not leaving the ACC. It's behind a paywall, so here's the lead for those interested:

Even before it was official that Oregon and Washington were fleeing the wreckage of the Pac-12 for the Big Ten, it had been such a crazy week in the no-holds-barred world of conference realignment — thanks in large part to the constant yipping out of Tallahassee — that North Carolina athletic director Bubba Cunningham held a call with his department Friday morning to tell them UNC was not leaving the ACC.

That’s what passes for breaking news these days in college sports. Nothing is actually something.

“When the news cycle starts spinning like this, I have the obligation to let our staff know what I know and reassure them we’re going to be OK,” Cunningham said later Friday. “That I value what they do. That the university values what they do. That’s my role, to reassure them that things are going to be fine.”

And as for UNC? “We have a $137 million budget,” Cunningham said. “We have 285 employees. Eight hundred student-athletes. We’re going to host 200 events this year. Over a million people are going to come to our games. We’re in good shape.”

Kind of like a "vote of confidence" for a coach who gets fired anyway?

Right? Pretty sure AZ, AZ ST, Utah, Oregon and Washington pledge loyalty to the PAC12 in the past few weeks.

These AD's are not dishonest people, their words have legal and negotiating consequences. The best strategy is to proclaim absolute loyalty to the current situation. 

[WeAreMarquette96]

Big 12 now pursuing UConn and Gonzaga.

Rumor is basketball only though. No chance UConn does that

[forgetful]

Raleigh News & Observer article about UNC AD Bubba Cunningham telling coaches and staff that they are not leaving the ACC. It's behind a paywall, so here's the lead for those interested:

Even before it was official that Oregon and Washington were fleeing the wreckage of the Pac-12 for the Big Ten, it had been such a crazy week in the no-holds-barred world of conference realignment — thanks in large part to the constant yipping out of Tallahassee — that North Carolina athletic director Bubba Cunningham held a call with his department Friday morning to tell them UNC was not leaving the ACC.

That’s what passes for breaking news these days in college sports. Nothing is actually something.

“When the news cycle starts spinning like this, I have the obligation to let our staff know what I know and reassure them we’re going to be OK,” Cunningham said later Friday. “That I value what they do. That the university values what they do. That’s my role, to reassure them that things are going to be fine.”

And as for UNC? “We have a $137 million budget,” Cunningham said. “We have 285 employees. Eight hundred student-athletes. We’re going to host 200 events this year. Over a million people are going to come to our games. We’re in good shape.”

Kind of like a "vote of confidence" for a coach who gets fired anyway?

A $137M budget, of which $48M is coming directly from student fees. That comes to $2400 from each undergraduate per year, and is significantly increasing the cost of the education.

This is the absurdity. They keep getting more and more money from TV deals, destroy the rivalries people/students care about, and at the same time, keep requiring more and more money from the students to support athletics.

The whole system is F'd up.

[forgetful]

Guessing the remaining schools will probably just raid the Mountain West. The Pac-12 brand name likely still has some value. The only question is if they just take the top 6-10 teams in the MWC or if they take everyone, and what they do with outliers like Air Force (service academy) and Hawaii (football only member).

The only thing that makes sense if for the remaining PAC12 teams to take the best available (from a TV contract perspective) from the Mountain West and AAC. The TV deals for both of those conferences kind of suck (MWC=$4m per school; AAC=$6m per school).

That would mean the PAC12 looking something like:
Cal (Bay Area #10 media market)
Stanford (Bay Area #10 media market)
Oregon State (Portland #22 media)
Washington State (no metro area)
San Diego State (San Diego #30 media)
UNLV (Vegas #40 media)
SMU (Dallas #5 media)
Memphis (Memphis #52 media)
Boise State (Boise #98 media)
Colorado State (Being generous and giving them Denver #16 media)
Utah State (Salt Lake City #29 media)
Fresno State (Fresno #53 media)

That would get them 12 teams and a decent number of major metro areas. That combined league would be able to draw more money than either the AAC or MWC.

The problem is, that is only 6 MWC teams, some reports say they would need 9 to vote new bylaws in to avoid paying an exit fee.

[WhiteTrash]

A $137M budget, of which $48M is coming directly from student fees. That comes to $2400 from each undergraduate per year, and is significantly increasing the cost of the education.

This is the absurdity. They keep getting more and more money from TV deals, destroy the rivalries people/students care about, and at the same time, keep requiring more and more money from the students to support athletics.

The whole system is F'd up.

Thanks for the info, I had no idea the students subsidized the athletics so much. UNC is also planning on investing $500 million into the athletics.

[WhiteTrash]

Rumor is basketball only though. No chance UConn does that

Is this just a rehash of the year old rumor? UCONN fans are bitching about "being played" by the Big12 and I don't see any new info on this elsewhere. UCONN to the Big12 seems as relevant as the Georgetown to the ACC rumors.

[HutchwasClutch]

A $137M budget, of which $48M is coming directly from student fees. That comes to $2400 from each undergraduate per year, and is significantly increasing the cost of the education.

This is the absurdity. They keep getting more and more money from TV deals, destroy the rivalries people/students care about, and at the same time, keep requiring more and more money from the students to support athletics.

The whole system is F'd up.

Absolutely 💯

[warriorchick]

In regards to sheer number of graduates, sure.

But I dunno man, I’ve met some Marquette grads in weird places that I’d never expected .

Relatively recently, there was a mayoral race in Phoenix where all 3 candidates were Marquette alums.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

This is a great column. I couldn’t agree more with everything.  A bunch of money and power whores everyone involved.  Everyone else in our way, screw you.  And the columnist is right too that it doesn’t end with this round.  Am unquenchable thirst for power and greed. 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/college/columnist/dan-wolken/2023/08/03/college-sports-ruined-failed-leaders-expansion-ncaa-pac-12/70519616007/

I agree that this sucks for us as fans but why is college sports the one place where so many people decry the free market? There's just doing what makes the most sense financially. Isn't that what they're supposed to do?

[Herman Cain]

Raleigh News & Observer article about UNC AD Bubba Cunningham telling coaches and staff that they are not leaving the ACC. It's behind a paywall, so here's the lead for those interested:

Even before it was official that Oregon and Washington were fleeing the wreckage of the Pac-12 for the Big Ten, it had been such a crazy week in the no-holds-barred world of conference realignment — thanks in large part to the constant yipping out of Tallahassee — that North Carolina athletic director Bubba Cunningham held a call with his department Friday morning to tell them UNC was not leaving the ACC.

That’s what passes for breaking news these days in college sports. Nothing is actually something.

“When the news cycle starts spinning like this, I have the obligation to let our staff know what I know and reassure them we’re going to be OK,” Cunningham said later Friday. “That I value what they do. That the university values what they do. That’s my role, to reassure them that things are going to be fine.”

And as for UNC? “We have a $137 million budget,” Cunningham said. “We have 285 employees. Eight hundred student-athletes. We’re going to host 200 events this year. Over a million people are going to come to our games. We’re in good shape.”

Kind of like a "vote of confidence" for a coach who gets fired anyway?

UNC has a massive capital raising campaign for Athletics. Equal in Size to many universities normal course capital campaigns. They enjoy being part of the ACC and are proud of being a founder of the league. Bubba is not the kind of guy to give phony pledges of feality.

UNC cares about Basketball and being elite in the so called Olympic Sports . They view football as something that helps pay the bills.

The academic scandal pissed off a lot of alumni . There  is no ground swell at UNC that sees their school identity as football powerhouse the way FSU does , and are willing to make  the academic compromises necessary.

Chapel Hill is an idyllic campus and there are many recruits who want to be a part of that. Basketball regularly packs 20,000 in The Dean Dome. Their are enough locals to keep football stadium at 45,000 plus and have some winning season. That is all good enough to keep them happy with Status Quo.

[GOO]

I agree that this sucks for us as fans but why is college sports the one place where so many people decry the free market? There's just doing what makes the most sense financially. Isn't that what they're supposed to do?

I’d say no. Nonprofit entities with other goals. Colleges have other constituents. Should a college be only looking out for itself and maximizing revenue as its primary concern. No stock holders     

Should a professional only be concerned about maximizing profit? Should your doctor only be concerned about maximizing profit as long as it’s legal? That doc would not be my doctor for long. Yes, there are plenty out there like that, but we also try to avoid them. And they probably aren’t the model of what should be.

Colleges aren’t traditional for profit business’s primarily concerned with net profit and shareholder value.. Or at least they shouldn’t be as most are not for profit organizations.

No doubt that college athletics is out of whack at many schools.  I think schools like Duke and Stanford, could frankly be better off without athletics at the D-1 level and follow the University of Chicago or Ivy league model. Focus on being the best for students, professors, research, etc..  Avoid the distraction and some of the poor quality students that come along with Division I athletics.

[forgetful]

Thanks for the info, I had no idea the students subsidized the athletics so much. UNC is also planning on investing $500 million into the athletics.

It is a weird aspect of their reporting. They report $48M from student fees “assessed and restricted for support of intercollegiate athletics.” That is only assessed to undergraduates, as far as I can tell, so it is $2400 per year.

The reason it is odd, is their tuition statements report a $279 athletics charge. The numbers don't add up, so I'm not sure which aspect is being misreported.

[MuMark]

I’d say no. Nonprofit entities with other goals. Colleges have other constituents. Should a college be only looking out for itself and maximizing revenue as its primary concern. No stock holders     

Should a professional only be concerned about maximizing profit? Should your doctor only be concerned about maximizing profit as long as it’s legal? That doc would not be my doctor for long. Yes, there are plenty out there like that, but we also try to avoid them. And they probably aren’t the model of what should be.

Colleges aren’t traditional for profit business’s primarily concerned with net profit and shareholder value.. Or at least they shouldn’t be as most are not for profit organizations.

No doubt that college athletics is out of whack at many schools.  I think schools like Duke and Stanford, could frankly be better off without athletics at the D-1 level and follow the University of Chicago or Ivy league model. Focus on being the best for students, professors, research, etc..  Avoid the distraction and some of the poor quality students that come along with Division I athletics.

And since another word for fans is customers….….most businesses understand that they need to consider the customer when making decisions.

Not to mention the other stakeholders ie student athletes.

Typically businesses prosper by adding value to customers……and the profit then follows.

[cven7]

It is a weird aspect of their reporting. They report $48M from student fees “assessed and restricted for support of intercollegiate athletics.” That is only assessed to undergraduates, as far as I can tell, so it is $2400 per year.

The reason it is odd, is their tuition statements report a $279 athletics charge. The numbers don't add up, so I'm not sure which aspect is being misreported.

Does Marquette make students subsidize the athletic department as part of their tuition?

[cven7]

Yep, that got my attention too. That day is coming.  Maybe a few years off, but wait for it.

Do the bylaws for these conferences allow some form of a supermajority of schools to vote out an existing conference member?  That day is probably even further down the line, but it seems to be getting more & more likely as athletics revenue chasing gets more & more cutthroat, and finding more revenue growth will shift from increasing quantity of conference members to increasing the quality of conference members. 

[HutchwasClutch]

I agree that this sucks for us as fans but why is college sports the one place where so many people decry the free market? There's just doing what makes the most sense financially. Isn't that what they're supposed to do?

It’s so few and concentrated the beneficiaries of all this. Students and parents paying outrageous tuitions aren’t going to get any help from all this money from media deals to ease that burden.  These supposed institutions of higher learning just keep getting further and further from their core missions.  It’s all about feeding the beast to those at the top. Chase the dollar and screw everyone else.  Rivalries, long standing conference affiliations, traditions, fan experience, all suffer.  A student athlete has become even more of a sham notion.  How much benefit is there for non football and basketball athletes? But boy are these schools going to be able to pay coaches in those sports outrageous contracts and buy them out for enormous sums when they don’t reach insane expectations. 

All the collateral damage of chasing power and greed with a total disregard of everything and everyone else.

[Tyler COLEk]

Is this just a rehash of the year old rumor? UCONN fans are bitching about "being played" by the Big12 and I don't see any new info on this elsewhere. UCONN to the Big12 seems as relevant as the Georgetown to the ACC rumors.

Rumors touting the likelihood of UConn as a full Big 12 member come from UConn sources. Rumors saying they'll be basketball-only are from the Big 12. Neither is going to happen.

[Shooter McGavin]

It’s so few and concentrated the beneficiaries of all this. Students and parents paying outrageous tuitions aren’t going to get any help from all this money from media deals to ease that burden.  These supposed institutions of higher learning just keep getting further and further from their core missions.  It’s all about feeding the beast to those at the top. Chase the dollar and screw everyone else.  Rivalries, long standing conference affiliations, traditions, fan experience, all suffer.  A student athlete has become even more of a sham notion.  How much benefit is there for non football and basketball athletes? But boy are these schools going to be able to pay coaches in those sports outrageous contracts and buy them out for enormous sums when they don’t reach insane expectations. 

All the collateral damage of chasing power and greed with a total disregard of everything and everyone else.

I agree with this assessment. 

[Viper]

I agree that this sucks for us as fans but why is college sports the one place where so many people decry the free market? There's just doing what makes the most sense financially. Isn't that what they're supposed to do?

not necessarily. Just because you can doesn’t mean you should.