More conference realignment talk

[Uncle Rico]

It wouldn't surprise me if the A10's reasoning included getting a school close to SLU to keep them happy. Especially now that they are starting to be a major factor in the league now.

Loyola will destroy St. Louis.  Not a fair matchup

[brewcity77]

Man, 5 years ago no one would've wanted LUC. Two top-80 finishes in the history of kenpom, both in the last 5 years. Three NCAA appearances since the 1960s, two in the last five years. Generally been a mediocre (at best) program for the better part of 50 years that caught lightning in a bottle. They should give 50% of their A-10 share to Cam Krutwig.

[Juan Anderson's Mixtape]

Never say never. If they have a few more runs like they did under moser the BE powers may realize Chicago's big enough for two teams especially since one of them counts for negative support

College basketball needs soccer style relegation.  Relegate DePaul to the A-10, add Loyola.

[Billy Hoyle]

Man, 5 years ago no one would've wanted LUC. Two top-80 finishes in the history of kenpom, both in the last 5 years. Three NCAA appearances since the 1960s, two in the last five years. Generally been a mediocre (at best) program for the better part of 50 years that caught lightning in a bottle. They should give 50% of their A-10 share to Cam Krutwig.

Nah, Sister Jean.

It wouldn't surprise me if the A10's reasoning included getting a school close to SLU to keep them happy. Especially now that they are starting to be a major factor in the league now.

Where is SLU going to go?  They may want out but the only upgrade for them is the Big East and we don't want them.

[Galway Eagle]

Nah, Sister Jean.

Where is SLU going to go?  They may want out but the only upgrade for them is the Big East and we don't want them.

The B1G wants SLU so they can host their tournament there

[JakeBarnes]

The B1G wants SLU so they can host their tournament there

This is the winner

[Pakuni]

Man, 5 years ago no one would've wanted LUC. Two top-80 finishes in the history of kenpom, both in the last 5 years. Three NCAA appearances since the 1960s, two in the last five years. Generally been a mediocre (at best) program for the better part of 50 years that caught lightning in a bottle. They should give 50% of their A-10 share to Cam Krutwig.

In 1998, there's very little chance the Big East would have wanted Marquette. A lot can happen in five years.
Beyond just on-court success, Loyola has invested pretty heavily in the program over the past decade, with a $26 million athletic complex and massive renovation of Gentile Arena.

[fjm]

The B1G wants SLU so they can host their tournament there

Haaa that’s great

[tower912]

The Yadier Molina Big 1G Championship brought to you by Budweiser.

[brewcity77]

In 1998, there's very little chance the Big East would have wanted Marquette. A lot can happen in five years.
Beyond just on-court success, Loyola has invested pretty heavily in the program over the past decade, with a $26 million athletic complex and massive renovation of Gentile Arena.

Marquette had more NCAA appearances in the 5 years before 1998 than LUC has had in the last 50. Not to mention Marquette's (more impressive) glory days were more of a recent memory. And that's before Crean and Wade were a better version of Moser and Krutwig.

[Pakuni]

Marquette had more NCAA appearances in the 5 years before 1998 than LUC has had in the last 50. Not to mention Marquette's (more impressive) glory days were more of a recent memory. And that's before Crean and Wade were a better version of Moser and Krutwig.

But that doesn't really matter, does it? The A-10  isn't taking Loyola because of where the program was 10 or 20 years ago. It's taking them for where they are now, which is a solid mid-major program with a nationally known brand, a recent record of success, a willingness to invest resources, and a location in the country's third-largest media market.
The idea that all of that upside is somehow less important than their KenPom in the 2010s or anything else from the distant  past seems a bit silly. A middling Loyola program is still an asset to the conference.

[brewcity77]

But that doesn't really matter, does it? The A-10  isn't taking Loyola because of where the program was 10 or 20 years ago. It's taking them for where they are now, which is a solid mid-major program with a nationally known brand, a recent record of success, a willingness to invest resources, and a location in the country's third-largest media market.
The idea that all of that upside is somehow less important than their KenPom in the 2010s or anything else from the distant  past seems a bit silly. A middling Loyola program is still an asset to the conference.

I'd say track record absolutely matters. The 2010s aren't the distant past. And where they are now is a team that's been sub-100 two of the last three years, unless you also think 2019 is the distant past.

This just demonstrates the randomness of March. They channeled a few lucky wins into big donations and parlayed that into a conference upgrade, not by sustaining success, but mostly because of 3 wins by 4 points in 2018.

And unproven upside has all the value of a lottery ticket. Could they prove to meet the value of moving up? Sure. But there is virtually nothing in their past to indicate their erratic success level of even the past four years is sustainable.

[shoothoops]

In 1998, there's very little chance the Big East would have wanted Marquette. A lot can happen in five years.
Beyond just on-court success, Loyola has invested pretty heavily in the program over the past decade, with a $26 million athletic complex and massive renovation of Gentile Arena.

Some people here get very triggered when you mention this, or mention the state of MUBB before Kevin O’Neill, etc…

Marquette easily could have gone down a different path. Because they came close to that, didn’t, some cling a little super tight.

Some are also overly obsessed with KenPom, when it advances their point, but less so when it doesn’t.

It’s interesting how other schools are lucky and random. In 2003, Marquette barely beat Holy Cross in the NCAA First Round. (4 points). Then MU won in OT, Then MU won by 3 points.

In the Elite 8 year of 2013, MUBB won at the buzzer in the first round over Davidson and by 2 points in the 2nd round.

It’s pretty clear both of these things were pretty big deals for Marquette. They are the only two times MUBB has finished past the Sweet 16 in 44 years. Things worked out well for Marquette. That’s great. But some are not secure enough to mention that things easily could have gone a different way.

We’ve already discussed the various teams that have done better since joining new leagues, than they did before joining.

“Unproven upside” is in large part the NBA draft. Unproven upside is how several MLB franchises build their teams through draft and player development. And so on.

I’m sure Marquette Women’s Soccer Coach Frank Pelaez is paying attention to the situation. MU made 12 NCAA Women’s Soccer Tourneys in his 19 years as an assistant. They made 1 of 5, after he left for Loyola. Loyola made 3 after Pelaez left for there to coach or recruit the players, the first time they had made it in over a decade. (Marquette’s coach stepped down, and they hired Pelaez as head coach)

[shoothoops]

The B1G wants SLU so they can host their tournament there

Big Ten already has that market. U Illinois is a similar distance to Chicago and St. Louis (slightly farther) The Illini have been playing at least 1 annual game there for over 40 years. Lots of Illini fans in that market.

[Viper]

their AD specifically mentioned being in a conference with other Jesuit schools.

Not unlike Butler: Horizon to A-10 to Big East. Though this is the end of the climb for LUC.

end of climb? Why? Loyola adds more to the BE than Butler if for no other reason the Chicago market. Loyola doesn’t take a back seat to DePaul, and two Chicago-market BE programs isn’t a bad thing.

[Uncle Rico]

Some people here get very triggered when you mention this, or mention the state of MUBB before Kevin O’Neill, etc…

Marquette easily could have gone down a different path. Because they came close to that, didn’t, some cling a little super tight.

Some are also overly obsessed with KenPom, when it advances their point, but less so when it doesn’t.

It’s interesting how other schools are lucky and random. In 2003, Marquette barely beat Holy Cross in the NCAA First Round. (4 points). Then MU won in OT, Then MU won by 3 points.

In the Elite 8 year of 2013, MUBB won at the buzzer in the first round over Davidson and by 2 points in the 2nd round.

It’s pretty clear both of these things were pretty big deals for Marquette. They are the only two times MUBB has finished past the Sweet 16 in 44 years. Things worked out well for Marquette. That’s great. But some are not secure enough to mention that things easily could have gone a different way.

We’ve already discussed the various teams that have done better since joining new leagues, than they did before joining.

“Unproven upside” is in large part the NBA draft. Unproven upside is how several MLB franchises build their teams through draft and player development. And so on.

I’m sure Marquette Women’s Soccer Coach Frank Pelaez is paying attention to the situation. MU made 12 NCAA Women’s Soccer Tourneys in his 19 years as an assistant. They made 1 of 5, after he left for Loyola. Loyola made 3 after Pelaez left for there to coach or recruit the players, the first time they had made it in over a decade. (Marquette’s coach stepped down, and they hired Pelaez as head coach)

St. Louis sucks

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

In 1998, there's very little chance the Big East would have wanted Marquette.

Well in 1998 the BE wasn't interested in expanding, but let's say that Marquette doesn't make the FF in 2003.  The idea that they would no longer have been a target for the 2005 BE expansion is wildly speculative.

It's more than immediate success for why schools are invited to join a conference.  Marquette has a huge fanbase, a lot of resources, and a history and tradition.  Who else would they have invited? 

LUC was invited to the A10 not just because of their recent success, but because they have shown a commitment to put money into their program and their location in Chicago.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

When the Big East was expanding in 2005, their goal was to replenish their football ranks and to create a 16 team superconference in basketball. Given that DePaul was taken as well, I think Marquette would have safely been in, regardless of the 2003 Final Four. Impossible to know of course but I think it is the most educated guess.

[Pakuni]

I'd say track record absolutely matters. The 2010s aren't the distant past. And where they are now is a team that's been sub-100 two of the last three years, unless you also think 2019 is the distant past.

This just demonstrates the randomness of March. They channeled a few lucky wins into big donations and parlayed that into a conference upgrade, not by sustaining success, but mostly because of 3 wins by 4 points in 2018.

Shoot mentions it below, but do you dismiss MU's Final Four and Elite Eight runs just the same because they involved narrow victories that could have just as easily gone the other way? Fact is, MU was fortuitous not have seen first-round exits both those years. That doesn't make the runs they made an less valuable.

With all due respect, you're putting your emphasis on all the wrong things here. Outside of us basketball nerds that inhabit spaces like this, nobody cares about KenPom. Walk the concourse at Fiserv pregame some night and ask 100 random fans what Loyola's KenPom rankings have been the past five years. I'd be very surprised if more than a couple, if that, can tell you with any level of accuracy. More will ask "What's a KenPom?" And every one of them will be able to tell you about the Final Four run, beating Illinois to get to the Sweet 16 last year and Sister Jean.

The priority of any conference when it's looking to add members is expanding its footprint, putting fans in seats and eyeballs on televisions. Loyola does that for the A-10. I think it's a safe bet that when the A-10 is in negotiations for its next TV contract, Loyola's KenPom won't come up. But their name recognition and location will. Whether the program wins is just a bonus. I mean, the Big 10 didn't add Rutgers and Maryland for their powerhouse programs, right?

FWIW, you've got your timeline all wrong. The donations didn't come after "a few lucky wins." The donations came first, and the success followed. This actually bodes well for Loyola's future. They've proven they can translate investment in the program into on-court success. Obviously, nothing is guaranteed, but Loyola is well-positioned to continue its success.

[MU82]

According to a few here, Loyola is doomed without The Great Porter Moser ... and Marquette is doomed without him, too!

[Skatastrophy]

I took a quick look at DePaul's schedule with this talk of Loyola, and color me surprised

12/4 vs. Loyola (Red Line Rivalry)
12/14 @ UIC
12/18 @ Northwestern

I wish MU would get back to playing in-state schools.

[Galway Eagle]

I took a quick look at DePaul's schedule with this talk of Loyola, and color me surprised

12/4 vs. Loyola (Red Line Rivalry)
12/14 @ UIC
12/18 @ Northwestern

I wish MU would get back to playing in-state schools.

I mean we're playing 1/3 of the onstage options... WI isn't like Illinois where they can fill an entire schedule with mid major opponents

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I took a quick look at DePaul's schedule with this talk of Loyola, and color me surprised

12/4 vs. Loyola (Red Line Rivalry)
12/14 @ UIC
12/18 @ Northwestern

I wish MU would get back to playing in-state schools.

Was there ever a time where we consistently played in-state schools besides Madison?

I have no idea how accurate this site is but if its right, we've only played UWM 11 times and Green Bay 13 times in the past 70ish years: https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/schools/marquette/head-to-head.html

That seems low to me, can anyone confirm?

EDIT: Looking closer, it looks like there were two periods of time where we played them both consistently, 1993-1997 and 2010-2013

[Skatastrophy]

I mean we're playing 1/3 of the onstage options... WI isn't like Illinois where they can fill an entire schedule with mid major opponents

You know, I thought this was hyperbole so I looked it up. Illinois has 13 D1 basketball programs:

Bradley Braves
Chicago State Cougars
DePaul Blue Demons
Eastern Illinois Panthers
Illinois Fighting Illini
Illinois State Redbirds
Loyola Ramblers
Northern Illinois Huskies
Northwestern Wildcats
Southern Illinois Salukis
SIUE Cougars
UIC Flames

I feel like I'm looking at gerrymandered voting districts for the first time. Maybe the fed should step in with some conference redistricting guidelines.

[Galway Eagle]

You know, I thought this was hyperbole so I looked it up. Illinois has 13 D1 basketball programs:

Bradley Braves
Chicago State Cougars
DePaul Blue Demons
Eastern Illinois Panthers
Illinois Fighting Illini
Illinois State Redbirds
Loyola Ramblers
Northern Illinois Huskies
Northwestern Wildcats
Southern Illinois Salukis
SIUE Cougars
UIC Flames

I feel like I'm looking at gerrymandered voting districts for the first time. Maybe the fed should step in with some conference redistricting guidelines.

Off the top of my head youre at least forgetting Western Illinois University Leathernecks