Texas Fans Done With Shaka Smart - Is His Fate Tied To Wojo's?

[WhiteTrash]

I honestly think you are misremembering. No one ever disputed that a top mid-major coach or high major assistant would come here. But there were posters arguing that we could poach guys like Nate Oates (after he went to Alabama), Eric Musselman, and Billy Donovan. And any time you hire a mid-major coach or top assistant, there are risks. You never know how moving up in competition or getting the big chair will impact results.

I remember it very clearly. Maybe it was only one or two posters (maybe not on the board any more or trolls), but there were plenty of of posts in the flavor of "ok fine, fire Wojo but who can MU hire that is better?... No one". I responded to plenty of posts to point out that MU can not operate out of fear that no decent coach would take our job.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I remember it very clearly. Maybe it was only one or two posters (maybe not on the board any more or trolls), but there were plenty of of posts in the flavor of "ok fine, fire Wojo but who can MU hire that is better?... No one". I responded to plenty of posts to point out that MU can not operate out of fear that no decent coach would take our job.

I'll take your word for it.  I remember a of posts asking who we could hire if Wojo was fired.  I don't remember anyone saying no one in response

[Uncle Rico]

I'll take your word for it.  I remember a of posts asking who we could hire if Wojo was fired.  I don't remember anyone saying no one in response

When we had those discussions, that was always my question.  Who is your replacement and it always devolved into something else. 

[wadesworld]

I honestly think you are misremembering. No one ever disputed that a top mid-major coach or high major assistant would come here. But there were posters arguing that we could poach guys like Nate Oates (after he went to Alabama), Eric Musselman, and Billy Donovan. And any time you hire a mid-major coach or top assistant, there are risks. You never know how moving up in competition or getting the big chair will impact results.

Gotta make the call.

[#UnleashSean]

I remember it very clearly. Maybe it was only one or two posters (maybe not on the board any more or trolls), but there were plenty of of posts in the flavor of "ok fine, fire Wojo but who can MU hire that is better?... No one". I responded to plenty of posts to point out that MU can not operate out of fear that no decent coach would take our job.

I very much remember this being one of the projos last stand arguments.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I very much remember this being one of the projos last stand arguments.

And this post encapsulates what I remember about that time.  Anyone that didn't call for immediate termination was labeled a projo and if someone asked a question like who would you  hire that will be better,  it was interpreted to mean that MU would never be able to hire someone better than Wojo.

I don't remember anyone serious (so not including Cheeks) ever arguing that MU couldn't hire someone better.  I do remember plenty of people asking who nojos would hire instead and pointing out that: A. We werent poaching Oates, Musselman, etc and B. There are risks hiring the hit midmajor hc or top assistant

[Uncle Rico]

And this post encapsulates what I remember about that time.  Anyone that didn't call for immediate termination was labeled a projo and if someone asked a question like who would you  hire that will be better,  it was interpreted to mean that MU would never be able to hire someone better than Wojo.

I don't remember anyone serious (so not including Cheeks) ever arguing that MU couldn't hire someone better.  I do remember plenty of people asking who nojos would hire instead and pointing out that: A. We werent poaching Oates, Musselman, etc and B. There are risks hiring the hit midmajor hc or top assistant

There’s no room for nuance in those discussions.  Come on, TAMU.  We all know you were a slurper

[#UnleashSean]

There’s no room for nuance in those discussions.  Come on, TAMU.  We all know you were a slurper

That last year was amazing as a NOJO since year 2. Watching people who were adamantly supporting Wojo like he was the 2nd coming of Al, slowly realize that he was in way over his head.

[WhiteTrash]

That last year was amazing as a NOJO since year 2. Watching people who were adamantly supporting Wojo like he was the 2nd coming of Al, slowly realize that he was in way over his head.

I supported the Wojo extension.
I supported the Wojo exit.
"way over his head" maybe a slight over statement.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

That last year was amazing as a NOJO since year 2. Watching people who were adamantly supporting Wojo like he was the 2nd coming of Al, slowly realize that he was in way over his head.

Stop with the hyperbole. No one called him the second coming of Al. People just weren’t on board with firing a tournament coach. And the year he clearly wasn’t going to make the tournament, more people turned on him and he was fired.

[Dr. Blackheart]

And this post encapsulates what I remember about that time.  Anyone that didn't call for immediate termination was labeled a projo and if someone asked a question like who would you  hire that will be better,  it was interpreted to mean that MU would never be able to hire someone better than Wojo.

I don't remember anyone serious (so not including Cheeks) ever arguing that MU couldn't hire someone better.  I do remember plenty of people asking who nojos would hire instead and pointing out that: A. We werent poaching Oates, Musselman, etc and B. There are risks hiring the hit midmajor hc or top assistant

The argument at the time was "rebuilds are a bitch". Or it's a COVID year to go with 5 or 7 years to judge.  In Year 1, Shaka had MU into the green on our conference record (Wojo only had 2 years).  Year 2 winning the BE outright.  Year 3, competing for a Natty.

[brewcity77]

I think through early April 2019, there was logic to supporting Wojo. Year one sucked, but years 2-4 were like a slower build of what Shaka has done. Tourney, successful NIT run (though yes, still NIT), then Big East title challenge. If Markus doesn't get hurt we probably win the league and get a protected seed. And were in position to return everyone.

Then the Hausers left, 2020 ended the same as 2019 (plus a pandemic), and 2021 we never built consistency. So he was rightly fired. Until the Hausers left, though, there were plenty of positive signs mixed with less than ideal but not terrible results.

The real blessing of 2021 was that it was Georgetown, and not us, that took advantage of a very nice Big East Tourney path.

[Uncle Rico]

The argument at the time was "rebuilds are a bitch". Or it's a COVID year to go with 5 or 7 years to judge.  In Year 1, Shaka had MU into the green on our conference record (Wojo only had 2 years).  Year 2 winning the BE outright.  Year 3, competing for a Natty.

Rebuilds were a bitch.  Instant transfers without sitting out helped a lot.  OMax and Kolek getting playing time in ‘21 laid the foundation for last year.  Not having to sit out almost certainly changes the performance of that team.

Also, Wojo left him Kam, Stevie and Oso amongst others

[MU82]

I remember it very clearly. Maybe it was only one or two posters (maybe not on the board any more or trolls), but there were plenty of of posts in the flavor of "ok fine, fire Wojo but who can MU hire that is better?... No one". I responded to plenty of posts to point out that MU can not operate out of fear that no decent coach would take our job.

I thought it would be unjustified and difficult to fire a coach who got his team into the NCAAT 3 out of 4 years; and it was, Marquette didn't fire him. I thought he had to go in 2021 - even called for him being fired in the middle of the season - but I feared Marquette would be unwilling to eat his buyout; I had no idea that there were bazillionaires willing to pay to send him packing. I was skeptical that we'd be able to hire anything more than a Moser type because of Marquette's long history of the kind of coach it had hired for the job; had Shaka not lost to Abilene Christian to fall into our laps, Moser would probably be our coach. And I definitely was skeptical at first about Shaka, who had rejected us once, who did a whole lot of losing in his first P6 job, and who hadn't done anything in the NCAAT in a decade. But I also agreed with your last point: Despite all of those concerns, Wojo still had to go.

Bottom line: I stuck with Wojo too long ... I was wrong about the bazillionaires ... and I'm thrilled to have been wrong about Shaka.

The next step is for him to guide a team into the second weekend and beyond. It's been too long for Marquette, and it's been even longer for Shaka.

Always fun to re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-relitigate this.

(I think I'm missing a few "re"s.)

[Silent Verbal]

I do think that in the spring of 2021, Calipari would’ve listened if MU had given him a call.  He was coming off a terrible season at Kentucky and has felt stale for there for a while (seems like he’s got a great recruiting class this year, though).  Not that bringing him on would’ve been in any way consistent with MU’s past hiring practices or that he would’ve been the right guy for the job for any number of reasons.  But he’s a big name coach who would’ve entertained coming here if the price was right.

[Uncle Rico]

I do think that in the spring of 2021, Calipari would’ve listened if MU had given him a call.  He was coming off a terrible season at Kentucky and has felt stale for there for a while (seems like he’s got a great recruiting class this year, though).  Not that bringing him on would’ve been in any way consistent with MU’s past hiring practices or that he would’ve been the right guy for the job for any number of reasons.  But he’s a big name coach who would’ve entertained coming here if the price was right.

You serious, Clark?

[DoctorV]

Nice post 82.

Every time we drive up to Milwaukee and pass the building I remind my wife that the Michels had a big hand in bringing us Shaka, and I’m very grateful for that.
She beats me to the reminder now.
 
I loved Markus and I was a big Wojo fan- I just wanted Marquette to be good and the beginning of that season that ended so disastrously was a heck of a lot of fun.

Even though I was a big fan, I was happy that he was fired. I was very happy Marquette copped Shaka, even though I would have been happy with Moser as well.

I also kawkaw super loudly every time we drive past the large mural off the National exit, and I highly recommend everyone try this.
It’s a great time to be a Marquette fan.

[Silent Verbal]

You serious, Clark?

Kentucky hasn’t made the FF since 2015 and their fans have been grumbling about him for a while.  If he didn’t have a ridiculous contract, I could see him making a similar move to Shaka in the next few years, especially if his team falls flat this season.  Old school guys like him and Pitino (who, I think, also would’ve taken the MU job in 2021) have a lot of respect for Marquette.  If Cal was making in the $3-4 million range instead of twice that, I think he would’ve listened had MU called, if only to get out of Lexington before the posse got him.  Not that he would’ve been in any way the right guy for the job.

[Uncle Rico]

Kentucky hasn’t made the FF since 2015 and their fans have been grumbling about him for a while.  If he didn’t have a ridiculous contract, I could see him making a similar move to Shaka in the next few years, especially if his team falls flat this season.  Old school guys like him and Pitino (who, I think, also would’ve taken the MU job in 2021) have a lot of respect for Marquette.  If Cal was making in the $3-4 million range instead of twice that, I think he would’ve listened had MU called, if only to get out of Lexington before the posse got him.  Not that he would’ve been in any way the right guy for the job.

Yeah, no

[Lennys Tap]

I honestly think you are misremembering. No one ever disputed that a top mid-major coach or high major assistant would come here. But there were posters arguing that we could poach guys like Nate Oates (after he went to Alabama), Eric Musselman, and Billy Donovan. And any time you hire a mid-major coach or top assistant, there are risks. You never know how moving up in competition or getting the big chair will impact results.

We had a guy who didn’t do the job. Was it possible the next guy could be even worse? Sure. But anyone who advocates keeping someone who’s proven he can’t do the job on the off chance his replacement might be worse has a loser’s mentality.

[Scoop Snoop]

We had a guy who didn’t do the job. Was it possible the next guy could be even worse? Sure. But anyone who advocates keeping someone who’s proven he can’t do the job on the off chance his replacement might be worse has a loser’s mentality.

"Proven he can't do the job" sums it up nicely Lenny.

I was never happy with the Wojo hire from the very beginning. He had zero experience as a head coach. Had he proved himself at a mid-major, I would have been on board. The hype from some about Marquette becoming "Duke North" was, to me, insulting- as if we needed to be rescued by Coach K's gift to Marquette. There is no question that he brought in some top-level players, with Shaka benefitting from three of them.

I was very happy being proven wrong during the one season that was so promising, but then Wojo's inability to manage egos and player conflicts-an important skill in coaching-was exposed. Although it was merely one embarrassing example of his coaching failures, his literally not knowing what the score was just after a time out near the end of the game with us up vs. Butler sums it up for me. Has anyone forgotten Wojo's instruction to foul deliberately, followed by the loss in OT?

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

We had a guy who didn’t do the job. Was it possible the next guy could be even worse? Sure. But anyone who advocates keeping someone who’s proven he can’t do the job on the off chance his replacement might be worse has a loser’s mentality.

Agreed. Which is why I'm glad that after it was proven that Wojo wouldn't be able to do the job well enough, Marquette fired him at the earliest time they legitimately could. I'm also glad that they did it with a guy in mind who was likely to be better than Wojo and would have sold his left nut for the job (Moser) and even more glad they hired Shaka.

[willie warrior]

I remember it very clearly. Maybe it was only one or two posters (maybe not on the board any more or trolls), but there were plenty of of posts in the flavor of "ok fine, fire Wojo but who can MU hire that is better?... No one". I responded to plenty of posts to point out that MU can not operate out of fear that no decent coach would take our job.

Sort of revisionist here. There were more than one or two posters offering up those Wojo excuses. At any rate, he is gone, and the excuse makers know who they are.

[willie warrior]

I think through early April 2019, there was logic to supporting Wojo. Year one sucked, but years 2-4 were like a slower build of what Shaka has done. Tourney, successful NIT run (though yes, still NIT), then Big East title challenge. If Markus doesn't get hurt we probably win the league and get a protected seed. And were in position to return everyone.

Then the Hausers left, 2020 ended the same as 2019 (plus a pandemic), and 2021 we never built consistency. So he was rightly fired. Until the Hausers left, though, there were plenty of positive signs mixed with less than ideal but not terrible results.

The real blessing of 2021 was that it was Georgetown, and not us, that took advantage of a very nice Big East Tourney path.

Yep and then many started dumping on the Hausers, when in reality they threw the light on who Wojo really was. Truly a black period for MU bball.

[StillAWarrior]

I thought it would be unjustified and difficult to fire a coach who got his team into the NCAAT 3 out of 4 years; and it was, Marquette didn't fire him. I thought he had to go in 2021 - even called for him being fired in the middle of the season - but I feared Marquette would be unwilling to eat his buyout; I had no idea that there were bazillionaires willing to pay to send him packing. I was skeptical that we'd be able to hire anything more than a Moser type because of Marquette's long history of the kind of coach it had hired for the job; had Shaka not lost to Abilene Christian to fall into our laps, Moser would probably be our coach. And I definitely was skeptical at first about Shaka, who had rejected us once, who did a whole lot of losing in his first P6 job, and who hadn't done anything in the NCAAT in a decade. But I also agreed with your last point: Despite all of those concerns, Wojo still had to go.

Bottom line: I stuck with Wojo too long ... I was wrong about the bazillionaires ... and I'm thrilled to have been wrong about Shaka.

The next step is for him to guide a team into the second weekend and beyond. It's been too long for Marquette, and it's been even longer for Shaka.

Well said.

Honestly, there's not much here about Wojo that I couldn't say of myself. The consecutive late-season collapses were what did it for me.

I think I was bit less skeptical about Shaka, but his record at Texas was somewhat of a mixed bag and anyone reviewing that fairly would have to at least understand why there could be some amount of skepticism.